The Javale McGee Appreciation Thread

[doclinkin]

Dunno about JaVale yet, but at least one WizBig has the foundations of a decent baby hook:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePdlkX1tnhc[/youtube] at the 3:04 mark.

Also, in game:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lHZveuKK5U[/youtube] about :35 for instance.

You see it in his Euro highlights against the grown ass pros, but that's not imbeddable.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Dunno about JaVale yet, but at least one WizBig has the foundations of a decent baby hook:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePdlkX1tnhc[/youtube] at the 3:04 mark.

I had to watch this really closely to figure out if he's right or left handed. His left handed hook is better than his right! Love his touch around the basket. (Unguarded, any way).

His spin moves and footwoork appear to me to be advanced. Seraphin is going to throw down many a sick dunk on a rebound and putback. He also seems like he'll draw a lot of fouls. Opponents who lean either way are going to get spun and dunked on.

One thing I don't like is the slight hitch in his jump shot but moreso, he doesn't protect the ball with his guide hand. His left arm is straight up in the air and he shoots it entirely one-handed, with his right. Seems like that's going to get blocked more often than if he protected the ball with not only the guide hand but with his opposite elbow making it harder for opponents to reach across is body.

I think Seraphin is a prototypical PF. If he boards well he's going to be pretty special.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Also, in game:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lHZveuKK5U[/youtube] about :35 for instance.

You see it in his Euro highlights against the grown ass pros, but that's not imbeddable.

At :09 that might have been a travel, but since it wasn't called I'll say it was a very nice reverse pivot. He's going to break a few ankles with that move if it's legal.

His jump and landing on the dunk at :55 remind me of Dominique Wilkins.

The up and under move he uses at 1:14 will be effective in the NBA. It's similar to how Steve Nash scores while moving laterally, even though he's well below the rim. Seraphin has a bit of the old man game working for him. Very crafty.

The most impressive aspect of his game IMO is the way the guy runs the court. He is super fast and super graceful out there. Everything he does is fluid.

[Ruzious]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAXx0GQPYaY&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
Start it up around the 2:35 mark. Who's shot did he block at 2:45?

He dunks on Cuz and then stuffs the Wall - not a bad sequence.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Well, all I can say is more power to you if you really saw that, because Haywood made mistake after mistake after mistake, etc in his first couple of years here, and he was a very soft player back then - hence his rep. It was hard to watch, because every offensive and defensive possession, we could pick apart obvious mistakes he made. And going to the games regularly back then, most smart fans agreed with me. He was a physically talented but very bad player. He also acted like an immature goofball on the bench - like a character out of Beavis and Buthead - and this was a guy who had 4 years at UNC. He was nothing like the player and person he developed into.

That's not true. Haywood was always a very good defender. He had a substantially positive on/off differential in each season that 82games.com posted numbers. I remember Doug Collins giving Haywood major minutes at center as a rookie and the team had some success.

For years, Haywood has been an awkward and mistake prone offensive player, but he was good on D from the get go. I'll cede that he has always had a rap for being a bit "soft", but that was mainly because he was unwilling to be an enforcer until much later in his career.

So far, I have seen no indication that McGee will ever pan out to reach Haywood's level defensively other than his pure length and athleticism.

If betting on Javale defensively to reach Haywood's effectiveness, I'd go all in on HE NEVER WILL.

Nope. Javale will not come close to being the defender Haywood is. He's an offensive player foremost.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'd like to lock Javale in a small room with days worth of footage like this, and not let him out until he's wearing goggles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1yVfJs6OcI

Man, thanks for posting that, fish. Kareem was poetry in motion.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'd like to lock Javale in a small room with days worth of footage like this, and not let him out until he's wearing goggles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1yVfJs6OcI

Man, I had forgotten how much range Kareem had on that sky hook. He's hitting them from 15 feet! And with his length and elevation, it was literally unstoppable. There is just no way to defend that with single coverage.

doc's just posted a link with Kevin Seraphin shooting hooks from 8-10 feet. Very fluid.

I hope like heck he gets that shot over Javale consistently in practice to the point where McGee starts to imitate. Javale's arms are so long that he should be able to do the same shots as Kareem from 10-12 feet. The way Kareem did that in traffic showed that footwork is important. Seraphin appears to already have that down. Kareem was able to sprint faster IMO than Javale, at least over a shorter distance. McGee takes a while and takes ginormously long strides. Kareem's ability to take compact steps is apparent in the video. That's what made him great--he was really athletic.

That said, Javale gets up higher than Kareem did. At full speed (once he gets there) he appears to be as fast as Kareem was if not faster. That's where the comparisons end, for now, because Kareem was so crafty and agile ... and SMART. Very high basketball IQ. Javale doesn't have those.

What really needs to happen is for somebody to get Kareem to work with McGee. In the short run, Serapin's game is something Javale needs to observe.

[WizarDynasty]

Kareem's ability to take compact steps is apparent in the video. That's what made him great--he was really athletic.

That said, Javale gets up higher than Kareem did. At full speed (once he gets there) he appears to be as fast as Kareem was if not faster. That's where the comparisons end, for now, because Kareem was so crafty and agile ... and SMART. Very high basketball IQ. Javale doesn't have those.

also I would point out Seraphin's ability to anticipate contact and actually make a quick countermove with his footwork. He has some of the same talented footwork that blatche shows.
Javale has awefully poor and uncoordinated slow footwork in the post.

so now i am curious. What exercises can a bigman do to increase his foot coordination and foot quickness in the post? I am perimeter player so i really wouldn't know.

[Ruzious]

The 3 most unstoppable shots in the game back in the day were:
1. Kareem's sky hook
2. Wilt's finger roll (He'd jump straight up from about 8 feet from the hoop and just reach his arm straight to the hoop and lay it in underhanded - using his reach and huge hands)
3. Elvin Hayes' turnaround jumper

All 3 are pretty much extinct, for some reason.

[Ruzious]

Kareem's ability to take compact steps is apparent in the video. That's what made him great--he was really athletic.

That said, Javale gets up higher than Kareem did. At full speed (once he gets there) he appears to be as fast as Kareem was if not faster. That's where the comparisons end, for now, because Kareem was so crafty and agile ... and SMART. Very high basketball IQ. Javale doesn't have those.

also I would point out Seraphin's ability to anticipate contact and actually make a quick countermove with his footwork. He has some of the same talented footwork that blatche shows.
Javale has awefully poor and uncoordinated slow footwork in the post.

That video of Seraphin had me thinking of a young Olajuwon - with the way he bounces off his man and spins toward the basket. Of course, it took several years in the NBA before Olajuwon perfected his amazing footwork and became virtually unstoppable, so I'll give Seraphin a few years before calling him a sure HOFer.

[doclinkin]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAXx0GQPYaY&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
Start it up around the 2:35 mark. Who's shot did he block at 2:45?

He dunks on Cuz and then stuffs the Wall - not a bad sequence.

He had 4 blocks this game, the missing part of this same sequence was the block of CCJ's boy Boogie Cuzzins. Then insult to injury.

The other blocks were an erasure of Cole Aldritch and I want to say Xavier Henry. Not a bad way to get noticed by pro scouts, especially playing in the kingdom of Nike. There's a reason Portland was trying to trade up.

[hands11]

The 3 most unstoppable shots in the game back in the day were:
1. Kareem's sky hook
2. Wilt's finger roll (He'd jump straight up from about 8 feet from the hoop and just reach his arm straight to the hoop and lay it in underhanded - using his reach and huge hands)
3. Elvin Hayes' turnaround jumper

All 3 are pretty much extinct, for some reason.

Because

1- like Kareem said, I scored the most points but it's isn't a cool jab step head fake.
2- He was so much taller and more athletic that anyone else. The ice man did it also.
3- People still do a turnaround.

[hands11]

Kareem's ability to take compact steps is apparent in the video. That's what made him great--he was really athletic.

That said, Javale gets up higher than Kareem did. At full speed (once he gets there) he appears to be as fast as Kareem was if not faster. That's where the comparisons end, for now, because Kareem was so crafty and agile ... and SMART. Very high basketball IQ. Javale doesn't have those.

also I would point out Seraphin's ability to anticipate contact and actually make a quick countermove with his footwork. He has some of the same talented footwork that blatche shows.
Javale has awefully poor and uncoordinated slow footwork in the post.

That video of Seraphin had me thinking of a young Olajuwon - with the way he bounces off his man and spins toward the basket. Of course, it took several years in the NBA before Olajuwon perfected his amazing footwork and became virtually unstoppable, so I'll give Seraphin a few years before calling him a sure HOFer.

Why yes. I guess you missed me saying that for the last month He does remind me of him in several ways.

Just like I though Dray reminded me of KG the way he run and moved.

[Ruzious]

The 3 most unstoppable shots in the game back in the day were:
1. Kareem's sky hook
2. Wilt's finger roll (He'd jump straight up from about 8 feet from the hoop and just reach his arm straight to the hoop and lay it in underhanded - using his reach and huge hands)
3. Elvin Hayes' turnaround jumper

All 3 are pretty much extinct, for some reason.

Because

1- like Kareem said, I scored the most points but it's isn't a cool jab step head fake.
2- He was so much taller and more athletic that anyone else. The ice man did it also.
3- People still do a turnaround.

Who does the turnaround jumper from the top of the key like Hayes did? Hayes used to take that same shot several times a game. Kobe might use a variation every once in a while, but it's not in his rotation.

I don't think there was any cooler shot than Alcindor's sky hook. It hooked me when I was a little kid. I "perfected it" in elementary school.

So, if the Iceman did the finger-roll (Alex English was another; neither anywhere near as much as Wilt), why don't today's players use it?

[Ruzious]

[quote="WizarDynasty]also I would point out Seraphin's ability to anticipate contact and actually make a quick countermove with his footwork. He has some of the same talented footwork that blatche shows.
Javale has awefully poor and uncoordinated slow footwork in the post.[/quote]
That video of Seraphin had me thinking of a young Olajuwon - with the way he bounces off his man and spins toward the basket. Of course, it took several years in the NBA before Olajuwon perfected his amazing footwork and became virtually unstoppable, so I'll give Seraphin a few years before calling him a sure HOFer.[/quote]

Why yes. I guess you missed me saying that for the last month He does remind me of him in several ways.

Just like I though Dray reminded me of KG the way he run and moved.[/quote]

Fine, you discovered Blatche and Seraphin. And when you saw Larry Bird at Indy State, you were the one who noticed he sees the floor well. And nobody else saw it until you said Magic Johnson had great size for a PG. I kid.

[pancakes3]

really? seraphin looks too small to bang effectively in the NBA to me. he doesn't have go-go gadget arms like blair, and his hops are not impressive either. yes, footwork and skills are there and they're solid but the physical limitations are definitely tempering my expectations.

and the hookshot going out of style probably has to do with the amount of PRACTICE it requires at an advanced age. you can't practice the hookshot until you're fairly developed. no offense to your elementary school hook shot ruz, but it's not a real hook shot. you've got to darn near palm the ball to execute the skyhook. you might have been decent at slinging it, but that's going to get blocked by a weakside defender against any reasonable competition.

so, from the POV of a big man, you've got to be old enough to have man-hands, then put in countless hours in the gym to perfect an awkward motion, or you can just continue to shoot jumpers because you're used to that, or worse yet... not practice at all because you've been coasting by on sheer athleticism all these years. just dunk the ball and to hell with extra hours in the gym.

i sounded like an old man there... kids these days... ::shakes fist:: get off my lawn.

[Ruzious]

Cakes, that sacriledge... or something! You've got to look at some Lew Alcindor footage, because you're sorely mistaken on how to shoot the sky hook. In the meantime, let's just hope Kareem doesn't read your post and verbally eviscerate you. There is no palming involved in a sky hook. Any 4'10 elementary school kid from the 1970's could tell you that. It's all in the fingers and a flick of the wrist, amigo. It's really not rocket science.

It's a helluvalot easier than shooting a Rick Barry style free throw. But seriously, the sky hook is a very easy shot to learn - certainly easier than a turnaround jump shot. You'd have to have serious coordination issues to have trouble with it. The only problem is that it's slow-developing and easy for a weak-side defender to double-team and knock the ball loose as you're going up - especially if you don't have strong fingers. It's all in the fingertips and wrist.

[hands11]

The 3 most unstoppable shots in the game back in the day were:
1. Kareem's sky hook
2. Wilt's finger roll (He'd jump straight up from about 8 feet from the hoop and just reach his arm straight to the hoop and lay it in underhanded - using his reach and huge hands)
3. Elvin Hayes' turnaround jumper

All 3 are pretty much extinct, for some reason.

Because

1- like Kareem said, I scored the most points but it's isn't a cool jab step head fake.
2- He was so much taller and more athletic that anyone else. The ice man did it also.
3- People still do a turnaround.

Who does the turnaround jumper from the top of the key like Hayes did? Hayes used to take that same shot several times a game. Kobe might use a variation every once in a while, but it's not in his rotation.

I don't think there was any cooler shot than Alcindor's sky hook. It hooked me when I was a little kid. I "perfected it" in elementary school.

So, if the Iceman did the finger-roll (Alex English was another; neither anywhere near as much as Wilt), why don't today's players use it?

Because Dray uses it and everyone hates when he does. Chicks dig the long ball and dude did the dunk.

[pancakes3]

Cakes, that sacriledge... or something! You've got to look at some Lew Alcindor footage, because you're sorely mistaken on how to shoot the sky hook.

i hope this isn't going to demolish what little credibility i have but... i just meant that a kareem hookshot vs a layman's hookshot is different. most of us day-to-day blacktop warriors make a long, swing-a-bucket-of-water arc to gather momentum and aim it with our hands/fingertips. kareem's shot is essentially a one-handed jump shot except he turns his body to shield the guy away. he brings the ball up, straight up (this alleviates the weakside strip potential), and uses ONLY his wrist to flick the ball. maybe i underestimated your elementary school abilities, but that takes some big hands and serious wrist strength to pull off properly.

i mean, heck, as a full grown man, i still don't have hands big enough to shoot one handed effectively a la gil in his shootoff vs DS much less a (imo) proper kareem skyhook.

[doclinkin]

Cakes, that sacriledge... or something! You've got to look at some Lew Alcindor footage, because you're sorely mistaken on how to shoot the sky hook.

i hope this isn't going to demolish what little credibility i have but... i just meant that a kareem hookshot vs a layman's hookshot is different. most of us day-to-day blacktop warriors make a long, swing-a-bucket-of-water arc to gather momentum and aim it with our hands/fingertips. kareem's shot is essentially a one-handed jump shot except he turns his body to shield the guy away. he brings the ball up, straight up (this alleviates the weakside strip potential), and uses ONLY his wrist to flick the ball. maybe i underestimated your elementary school abilities, but that takes some big hands and serious wrist strength to pull off properly.

I dunno it always felt to me that the turn of the hips and the jump were enough to impel the ball to the basket, not any pendulum arc of the arms. The wrist flick is just to give backspin, same as any jumper. Dome right it's almost like a teardrop jumper. The ball is travelling downward to the hoop at steep angle, so it's more likely to bounce around and go in, or in my case bounce out to a nearby ab reboundable spot. A self-pass. I'm no HOFer with it, but as a lanky guy who never had the girth to bang this was a plausible low-post skill to use, not really any tougher than a turnaround J in terms of mechanics. The hardest aspect is that, as opposed to a jumper, you can't really line it up and use your own elbow as a gunsight (as with a jumper) you just have to know where you are on the court.

I think that's a key why it's often not practiced growing up. Most driveways and few blacktops have the lines marked out clearly, it's a shot that initiates (for me anyway) not really looking at the basket, and travelling laterally to it, it helps to have the lanes and hashmarks marked out, etc. You can practice in a gym, but otherwise you just have to know where the rim is at all times, and trust that the bucket is always at regulation height. Or have big goggle eyes with great peripheral vision. Like Kareem.