Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI

[Ruzious]

Don't think Muscala is going to rise that much, at 38 he should be there.

anyway, if its possible to trade Singleton, Vesely and Okafor or Nenê for a true defensive anchor Center that can stay healthy, you obviously do that.

I think they're going to keep the young guys, Booker and Séraphin are useful and Ernie isnt going to just let Singleton and Vesely walk after 2 years, and nobody is offering something good for them.

While most mocks have him around there, I think the mocks tend to be slowwwwww.... to react. I think MM measured a lot better than people expected, he's reportedly shot really well from outside in workouts, and he's a guy who has gradually improved every year and maybe most importantly - he's changed his body. Now, he passes the eye test. When I saw him a year or two ago, he didn't. He's 6'11.5 with skills, toughness, solid strength and length, a history of production, and he's not a stiff. If I see this, I'm pretty sure NBA scouts and GMs see this and make him a 1st round pick.

[Severn Hoos]

Wondering why you guys are grouping Hayward in with George and Leonard. Hayward's solid, but I'd expect a more impactful player with the 3rd pick.

He should be better and I think he will be, but Hayward is probably a little better than given credit for. How much better is Paul George??? I don't think there's a massive difference b/w the two. Like I've mentioned, Paul George stands out as a SF because of the lack of standout options at the position. George is really overrated IMO. Not to say I wouldn't want him on my team, but the 'George becoming a potential superstar' talk borders on insanity.

Just based on stats - you can make that case. But I think George just needs to be more consistent to reach all-star caliber - and he did come of age in the playoffs. Consider Indiana made to within 1 game of going to the NBA Championship Finals with one of the NBA's worst backcourts, George, and 2 veteran bigs who are good but were never before considered dominant - and a pretty average bench. Either George had a huge impact against the best teams in the East, or the importance of good bigs is far greater than good perimeter players.

Quick - and without looking it up - who's the highest drafted player on Indiana's roster?



If you said Paul George, you're close. I believe he's the 2nd highest draftee (10th in 2010). Tow other Lottery picks (neither starters) - one higher, one lower than George. The rest are picks from late teens, 2nd round, and FAs. Just goes to show what a good GM with an eye for talent can do.


Answer?

Spoiler:

DJ Augustin, 9th pick in 2008 (by CHA). Tyler Hansbrough is the other Lotto pick - 13th pick in 2009.

[sfam]

I'm glad that the general opinion of Porter is changing. This guy will be a stud who scores, assists, rebounds, and defends well, while always making the right decision and quickly. I think people see a polished player who wasn't a great athlete and assumed he was a finished product, and things like "he can be found with the MLE every year" were said. In reality, while he wont be a max contract player, he will be almost as rare as a superstar. A guy who does everything very well, with almost star level production, while maintaining his ability as a glue guy. Similar to Shawn Marion, although not as athletic but a better shooter.

I don't consider solid starters to be as rare as superstars. To me, with a pick this high, you should be picking someone you think has a chance of being a superstar.

[sfam]

He should be better and I think he will be, but Hayward is probably a little better than given credit for. How much better is Paul George??? I don't think there's a massive difference b/w the two. Like I've mentioned, Paul George stands out as a SF because of the lack of standout options at the position. George is really overrated IMO. Not to say I wouldn't want him on my team, but the 'George becoming a potential superstar' talk borders on insanity.

Just based on stats - you can make that case. But I think George just needs to be more consistent to reach all-star caliber - and he did come of age in the playoffs. Consider Indiana made to within 1 game of going to the NBA Championship Finals with one of the NBA's worst backcourts, George, and 2 veteran bigs who are good but were never before considered dominant - and a pretty average bench. Either George had a huge impact against the best teams in the East, or the importance of good bigs is far greater than good perimeter players.

Quick - and without looking it up - who's the highest drafted player on Indiana's roster?



If you said Paul George, you're close. I believe he's the 2nd highest draftee (10th in 2010). Tow other Lottery picks (neither starters) - one higher, one lower than George. The rest are picks from late teens, 2nd round, and FAs. Just goes to show what a good GM with an eye for talent can do.


Answer?

Spoiler:

DJ Augustin, 9th pick in 2008 (by CHA). Tyler Hansbrough is the other Lotto pick - 13th pick in 2009.

As long as we have EG and his tremendous pit of knowledge choosing our picks, this is not a strategy that will work for the Wizards. Perhaps it is better to trade our future mid-level firsts. At least that way we'll get something for them.

[Dat2U]

I'm glad that the general opinion of Porter is changing. This guy will be a stud who scores, assists, rebounds, and defends well, while always making the right decision and quickly. I think people see a polished player who wasn't a great athlete and assumed he was a finished product, and things like "he can be found with the MLE every year" were said. In reality, while he wont be a max contract player, he will be almost as rare as a superstar. A guy who does everything very well, with almost star level production, while maintaining his ability as a glue guy. Similar to Shawn Marion, although not as athletic but a better shooter.

I don't consider solid starters to be as rare as superstars. To me, with a pick this high, you should be picking someone you think has a chance of being a superstar.

You can only work with what's out there.

If there's no clear cut superstar, then why try to force a "high upside" pick?

It's the same thing that gets Hasheem Thabeet picked #2. Or Martell Webster 6th a few years back. High upside picks can be a trap, especially when your talking high lottery. Wasn't Vesely supposedly an upside pick?

[Higga]

I'm glad that the general opinion of Porter is changing. This guy will be a stud who scores, assists, rebounds, and defends well, while always making the right decision and quickly. I think people see a polished player who wasn't a great athlete and assumed he was a finished product, and things like "he can be found with the MLE every year" were said. In reality, while he wont be a max contract player, he will be almost as rare as a superstar. A guy who does everything very well, with almost star level production, while maintaining his ability as a glue guy. Similar to Shawn Marion, although not as athletic but a better shooter.

I don't consider solid starters to be as rare as superstars. To me, with a pick this high, you should be picking someone you think has a chance of being a superstar.

You can only work with what's out there.

If there's no clear cut superstar, then why try to force a "high upside" pick?

It's the same thing that gets Hasheem Thabeet picked #2. Or Martell Webster 6th a few years back. High upside picks can be a trap, especially when your talking high lottery. Wasn't Vesely supposedly an upside pick?

Agreed. You can't turn water into wine. I'd rather take a player who is a lock to at least be pretty good then roll the dice on a guy who's got like a 10% chance at being a star. I mean we aren't exactly known for developing raw talent...

[verbal8]

Don't think Muscala is going to rise that much, at 38 he should be there.

Even if he is likely to end up being a 15 to 20 mpg player, it seems like the end of the 1st round would be a great time to use a pick on him. At that draft slot he is 1/2 the typical price of a vet to fill that role(2-3 million/yr), and under contract potentially for 4 years. Although if a team likes Iverson better, he could easily be available at 38.

[Ruzious]

Question on bigs in the draft: If you had to rank Withey, Dieng, Plumlee, or Muscala for the Wizards - what's your order, and note if there's a significant difference between the 4 of them.

[verbal8]

Wasn't Vesely supposedly an upside pick?

It made me want to smack EG upside the head. Does that count?

[McGully Culkin]

Question on bigs in the draft: If you had to rank Withey, Dieng, Plumlee, or Muscala for the Wizards - what's your order, and note if there's a significant difference between the 4 of them.

I'd go:

1. Dieng
2. Withey
3. Muscala
4. Plumlee

I'd really like to see us put together some sort of package to get another 1st round pick and get either Dieng, Adams, or Withey.

[Severn Hoos]

As a tag to my previous post, it's kind of sad to think about the Wiz roster compared to the Pacers, when you consider that we have the following draftees (assuming there are no trades before next season):

1 Wall
2 Okafor
3 Beal, 2013 pick
6 Vesely, Webster
7 Nene


That's 7 players drafted in the top 7 picks over the last decade! Not to mention Seraphin (17th), Singleton (18th), and Booker (23rd).

Sigh....

[tontoz]

You can only work with what's out there.

If there's no clear cut superstar, then why try to force a "high upside" pick?

It's the same thing that gets Hasheem Thabeet picked #2. Or Martell Webster 6th a few years back. High upside picks can be a trap, especially when your talking high lottery. Wasn't Vesely supposedly an upside pick?

Agreed. There are only 2 things to consider:

- who is the best player available?
-how well do they fit with Wall/Beal?

We shouldn't overvalue upside just because we aren't that high on the players available.

[DCZards]

The one concern I've got about that wing rotation is it lacks a big bodied perimeter player like a Jimmy Butler or a Tobias Harris with some strength. Beal is short and not capable of carrying 230-240 pounds. Ariza and Porter are lanky. Martell isn't lanky, but he's a mismatch against big forwards and not a powerfully built player like Harris and Butler. It'd be nice to have someone like that won't be a mismatch against big perimeter players. That was supposed to be Chris Singleton's job unfortunately. If only we had taken Harris instead.

I don't see Butler or Harris being that much bigger and stronger than Ariza. Yeah, they've got Trevor by a few pounds but Ariza is just as tall as they are and, imo, just as tough and physical.

Porter, on the other hand, could be overmatched physically by Butler and Harris, although Otto would give both of them trouble with his craftiness and perpetual movement, especially Harris who is not much of a defender. I'd also expect Porter to put on at least 10-15 lbs of muscle over the next couple of years.

[verbal8]

Question on bigs in the draft: If you had to rank Withey, Dieng, Plumlee, or Muscala for the Wizards - what's your order, and note if there's a significant difference between the 4 of them.

Dieng - defensive stud with good measurements, offense is negative but may have some potential, has high BBIQ
Plumlee - hard to ignore production at high level of competition
Muscala - risk of level of competition, however seems very skilled offensively and think he could make things
Withey - top level competition, good shot blocker, a little suspicious of his senior year production(1st 3 years a lot of foul trouble)

[sfam]

I'm glad that the general opinion of Porter is changing. This guy will be a stud who scores, assists, rebounds, and defends well, while always making the right decision and quickly. I think people see a polished player who wasn't a great athlete and assumed he was a finished product, and things like "he can be found with the MLE every year" were said. In reality, while he wont be a max contract player, he will be almost as rare as a superstar. A guy who does everything very well, with almost star level production, while maintaining his ability as a glue guy. Similar to Shawn Marion, although not as athletic but a better shooter.

I don't consider solid starters to be as rare as superstars. To me, with a pick this high, you should be picking someone you think has a chance of being a superstar.

You can only work with what's out there.

If there's no clear cut superstar, then why try to force a "high upside" pick?

It's the same thing that gets Hasheem Thabeet picked #2. Or Martell Webster 6th a few years back. High upside picks can be a trap, especially when your talking high lottery. Wasn't Vesely supposedly an upside pick?

Yep, that's a great point. Picking high athletic, low skilled upside picks early can backfire. Someone like a Bennett at least has a decent floor due to his skill and athletics.

[Rafael122]

Interesting article on CSN Washington: http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... k-williams

Basically, the T'Wolves are making Williams available, and their target is Oladipo. Minnesota would have to get back our trash if any deal is made available. Something worth discussing?

Chad Ford has us taking Otto Porter in his ltest mock with the front office being split on Porter and Bennett.

[dobrojim]

Porter is a much more instinctive scorer than Paul George. One thing that's stood out to me from the playoffs is how many bad shots George takes.

You might be right but it's kinda hard to tell for sure.
MIA's D results in lots of players looking bad and taking awful shots.

IND /really/ needed to figure out how to pass quick out of the double
teams MIA kept throwing at them and they just got flustered and failed
badly at that. Their offense stunk but MIA's D had a lot to do with it.

But Porter's way up on my list

[dobrojim]

The Ilyasova trade idea is worth considering. Personally I like Ilyasova, but I'd be more apt to just try to get the stretch 4 in the draft. It's less expensive first of all, and I like Nene at PF if he comes in healthy and in good condition. Then have a guy to bring off the bench, like Muscala who I'd like to deal the 2nd rounders and maybe Singleton for a pick high enough to get him.

After Muscala my backup plan would be Erik Murphy. I think either would be a good fit.

And this is if we draft Porter and not Zeller or Bennett at 3.

I also like Nene/Ok together. I think the key issue with that is ALSO having
2 3 pt threats in the game in addition to Wall. Beal and Webster/Ariza/OP
satisfy that requirement. You want a 3 pt threat parked in BOTH corners.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Personally, I think all you guys are undervaluing Lamb. He's the same guy most liked two drafts ago, after U Conn won an NCAA title. All he did was have a better summer league than Bradley Beal and he averaged 21/5/3 in the D-League. He led in usage and was second in PER, fourth in points.

Agree with you on Lamb. I was real high on him after his freshman year at UConn when he was playing second fiddle to Kemba but then his soph year came and he struggled when he became the focus of the UConn offense. I still think that given the right opportunity Lamb can be a decent NBA player, although I don't think he's necessarily what the Zards need.

As for Lamb having a better summer league than Beal, well, that's kinda insignificant. A lot of guys tear it up in the summer league and never do squat during the regular season.

Lamb was selected a D-League all star and his team made the semifinals. He was arguably the best SG in the D League. When he's a good NBA pro I will remind you that you each thought Lamb, Adams or Olynyk, plus Wolters was bad for Seraphin and the third.

[GhostsOfGil]

Interesting article on CSN Washington: http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... k-williams

Basically, the T'Wolves are making Williams available, and their target is Oladipo. Minnesota would have to get back our trash if any deal is made available. Something worth discussing?

Chad Ford has us taking Otto Porter in his ltest mock with the front office being split on Porter and Bennett.

I wonder if we could grab Luke Ridnour in a trade too.
Luke + DWill + 9 for 3 + Singleton + Vesely

Then we grab Len/Zeller/Olynyk/ or maybe even Bennett if he's there. I think Williams will be far more successful here with Wall running the pick and pop and with Beal/Webster spacing the perimeter.

We add a stretch 4, bolster our front court for the future, and add a quality back up pg. Basically what should have been the 8th pick turns into: Luke Dwill AND one of the original draft targets.

Wall/Luke
Beal/Vet Min
Webster/Ariza
Dwill/Nene
Okafor/9th pick