Bradley Beal - Part II

[DCZards]

As to Beal, I was at the game last night and was VERY distressed by what I saw. Not the missed shots, but again, the body language. Same sort of stuff that alarmed me against the Clips a few weeks ago -- last guy off the floor into the huddle at timeouts, poor concentration, etc. It was really bothering me. This is where you'd like a veteran leader to pull him aside (out of the view of cameras and reporters) and to hold him accountable.

And yet, he's 20.

Twenty.

Think of yourself at that age. BB is -- truly, by all accounts -- an extremely hard worker and mature beyond his years. I think what we're seeing is just part of a kid adjusting to the grind of the NBA. Seeing how JOhn has dunked on his struggles, I'm not that worried about Brad. I want him to be better and believe he will.

+1

[DCZards]

Beal himself said that Presti told him that the Thunder were trying to trade for him. But of course that wont stop people from trying to deny the obvious.

Nice of Presti to say that, probably did wonders for Beal's confidence. Other than that I'm not sure what it proves about the details of a rumored trade...or even if Harden was in the package.

[Darko Miliminutes]

I'm looking forward to getting the 40 mins per game Beal back. He's better then the 30 mins per Beal.

[tontoz]

Beal himself said that Presti told him that the Thunder were trying to trade for him. But of course that wont stop people from trying to deny the obvious.

Nice of Presti to say that, probably did wonders for Beal's confidence. Other than that I'm not sure what it proves about the details of a rumored trade...or even if Harden was in the package.

What would prove it?

They wanted Beal and they did in fact trade Harden that summer. And the Beal/Harden rumor was widely reported. That is about as much evidence as you can get about a possible trade.

[dlts20]

Well all I know it that we turned down a trade for Harden to keep this kid, and he has disappointed me greatly. He is not even remotely close to being on Harden's level in any way shape or form.

We could have had Harden, man. This FO sucks balls.

stop going overboard. I remember last year after Beal won back to back rookie of the months somoneone on here wrote to Leonsis and begged him not to trade Beal and everyone on here agreed with that. Then in the Preseason he was playing better than anyone in the league and after a slow first couple of games he was going off in the regular season. Then he went in another long slump but played great the last 3 games until tonight. What has Harden done? He was horrible in the finals against Miami and still hasnt done anything out West. Great offensive talent but plays a ton of iso ball and is the worst defender in the league. Give Beal time

What has harden done? Are you serious dude? How many players in this league average at least 20 points, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists? Name them now. Beal has a sub 14 PER, which puts him at a below average player.

And hell, I wish Beal had the ability to play ISO ball...right now he's simply worthless in ISO situations. It's embarrassing trying to watch him dribble around even average defenders.

he's Arenas, Tmac, Melo 2.0
ost was not
you wont win a title with those kinda players, ever. Id much rather save the money and go with the 20yo with the ray allen upside. Either way, my post wasnt meant to be about Harden but Beal. Beal has shown more than enough for people to stop acting like he's garbage and will stay that way

[DCZards]

They wanted Beal and they did in fact trade Harden that summer. And the Beal/Harden rumor was widely reported. That is about as much evidence as you can get about a possible trade.

Rumors...you talking about rumors? Heck, if you're going to embrace rumors and speculation as fact you might as well think BIG, tontoz. Maybe OKC was going to trade Durant for Beal.

[TGW]

They wanted Beal and they did in fact trade Harden that summer. And the Beal/Harden rumor was widely reported. That is about as much evidence as you can get about a possible trade.

Rumors...you talking about rumors? Heck, if you're going to embrace rumors and speculation as fact you might as well think BIG, tontoz. Maybe OKC was going to trade Durant for Beal.

What do you want, Ernie Grunfeld to personally give you a call to verify?

We know for sure that Presti told Beal they wanted to trade up for him. We know that Harden was traded soon thereafter. We know that the Wizards had discussions about trading for Beal. It's only a "rumor" because the trade didn't happen, but there's no doubt that the trade was discussed.

Either way, Harden was available, and we had something OKC wanted. You can choose to play dumb if you want, but Harden and Wall could have been together. Yet again, Ernie Grunfeld makes another stupid decision.

[DCZards]

Either way, Harden was available, and we had something OKC wanted. You can choose to play dumb if you want, but Harden and Wall could have been together. Yet again, Ernie Grunfeld makes another stupid decision.

You may be right about a possible trade for Harden. But it raises another question/issue. Could or should the Zards have two max pay players--Harden and Wall?

[TGW]

Either way, Harden was available, and we had something OKC wanted. You can choose to play dumb if you want, but Harden and Wall could have been together. Yet again, Ernie Grunfeld makes another stupid decision.

You may be right about a possible trade for Harden. But it raises another question/issue. Could or should the Zards have two max pay players--Harden and Wall?

Well, if Beal lives up to expectations, we'd be in that same exact position. So I'm not sure that question is really relevant...

[DCZards]

Well, if Beal lives up to expectations, we'd be in that same exact position. So I'm not sure that question is really relevant...

Let's leave Beal out of it since we don't know whether or not he'll ever be worth the max. What we do know is that both Harden and Wall are getting max pay. Could or should the Zards have two max pay players--Harden and Wall? Yes or no?

[GeeWiz]

In my opinion,Harden is a volume scorer. Might as well call him Haren with the amount of D he plays. Reminds me of a Nuggets-Melo at the SG spot.

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[payitforward]

stop going overboard. I remember last year after Beal won back to back rookie of the months somoneone on here wrote to Leonsis and begged him not to trade Beal and everyone on here agreed with that. Then in the Preseason he was playing better than anyone in the league and after a slow first couple of games he was going off in the regular season. Then he went in another long slump but played great the last 3 games until tonight. What has Harden done? He was horrible in the finals against Miami and still hasnt done anything out West. Great offensive talent but plays a ton of iso ball and is the worst defender in the league. Give Beal time

What has harden done? Are you serious dude? How many players in this league average at least 20 points, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists? Name them now. Beal has a sub 14 PER, which puts him at a below average player.

And hell, I wish Beal had the ability to play ISO ball...right now he's simply worthless in ISO situations. It's embarrassing trying to watch him dribble around even average defenders.

he's Arenas, Tmac, Melo 2.0
ost was not
you wont win a title with those kinda players, ever. Id much rather save the money and go with the 20yo with the ray allen upside. Either way, my post wasnt meant to be about Harden but Beal. Beal has shown more than enough for people to stop acting like he's garbage and will stay that way

dlts is right -- give him time. If you assess Beal at 20 by comparing him to Harden now, it's a pointless exercise. Brad turned 19 the night we drafted him.

Of course I would have traded the rights to him for Harden, but that's a different point. And, no, he isn't having a very good 2d year. But... the talent is there. And the character is there too. Nothing is for sure, but he looks like a guy who will turn out to be a terrific player.

[payitforward]

Well, if Beal lives up to expectations, we'd be in that same exact position. So I'm not sure that question is really relevant...

Let's leave Beal out of it since we don't know whether or not he'll ever be worth the max. What we do know is that both Harden and Wall are getting max pay. Could or should the Zards have two max pay players--Harden and Wall? Yes or no?

?? Isn't that kind of a ridiculous way to reframe the question? For starters, we acquired Emeka Okafor at a higher salary than Harden is making this year or next -- a deal you loved, btw -- and we are now paying Kendall Marshall and Whatsisname Brown not to be on the roster because it was such a great deal.

Your job as GM is to acquire the best assets available within your financial framework. Either trading the rights to Beal for Harden would have given us better assets w/in that framework or it wouldn't -- and that's the only question. And there's no question that had we bought out Rashard, we'd have had plenty of $$ for Harden and Beal and a good veteran Center. Oh, and still have been able to trade for Ariza btw.

Anyway, Wall wasn't a max player in June 2012, when we turned down the deal for Harden. Maybe we wouldn't have maxxed him had we acquired Harden. Maybe we would have traded Wall. Whatever.

[LyricalRico]

Either trading the rights to Beal for Harden would have given us better assets w/in that framework or it wouldn't -- and that's the only question.

I will always bring this up - I don't think we can assume that Beal-for-Harden straight up (or maybe with some minor filler) was actually agreed to from OKC's perspective and it was Ted/Ernie that said "pass". That's what everyone wants to believe, but consider what OKC eventually got:

- an established scorer in Kevin Martin
- a lottery pick in Lamb
- a second lottery pick from TOR (just used on Adams)
- and another first they will likely get this year

I'm still not convinced it was the straight up deal everyone makes it out to be. And if it wasn't, then this whole discussion of Beal vs Harden is moot. (Not that it'll stop anyone...)

[DCZards]

?? Isn't that kind of a ridiculous way to reframe the question? For starters, we acquired Emeka Okafor at a higher salary than Harden is making this year or next -- a deal you loved, btw -- and we are now paying Kendall Marshall and Whatsisname Brown not to be on the roster because it was such a great deal.

Your job as GM is to acquire the best assets available within your financial framework. Either trading the rights to Beal for Harden would have given us better assets w/in that framework or it wouldn't -- and that's the only question. And there's no question that had we bought out Rashard, we'd have had plenty of $$ for Harden and Beal and a good veteran Center. Oh, and still have been able to trade for Ariza btw.

Anyway, Wall wasn't a max player in June 2012, when we turned down the deal for Harden. Maybe we wouldn't have maxxed him had we acquired Harden. Maybe we would have traded Wall. Whatever.

A lot of "what ifs" and "what might have beens" that don't come close to answering my question. Reminds me of something you said a few days ago, pif, that I agree with. Went something like this: "Some posters here prefer to live in the past and others of us like to dream." I guess you're choosing to live in the past with this response.

[Dat2U]

?? Isn't that kind of a ridiculous way to reframe the question? For starters, we acquired Emeka Okafor at a higher salary than Harden is making this year or next -- a deal you loved, btw -- and we are now paying Kendall Marshall and Whatsisname Brown not to be on the roster because it was such a great deal.

Your job as GM is to acquire the best assets available within your financial framework. Either trading the rights to Beal for Harden would have given us better assets w/in that framework or it wouldn't -- and that's the only question. And there's no question that had we bought out Rashard, we'd have had plenty of $$ for Harden and Beal and a good veteran Center. Oh, and still have been able to trade for Ariza btw.

Anyway, Wall wasn't a max player in June 2012, when we turned down the deal for Harden. Maybe we wouldn't have maxxed him had we acquired Harden. Maybe we would have traded Wall. Whatever.

A lot of "what ifs" and "what might have beens" that don't come close to answering my question. Reminds me of something you said a few days ago, pif, that I agree with. Went something like this: "Some posters here prefer to live in the past and others of us like to dream." I guess you're choosing to live in the past with this response.

Any non trade is going to have enough what ifs for anyone to argue against. Considering Michael Lee never has been one to post rumors and had actual sources from the league office, I tend to believe it when he actually posts a rumor and then reiterates it later after a team source came out denying it.

[Ruzious]

Well, if Beal lives up to expectations, we'd be in that same exact position. So I'm not sure that question is really relevant...

Let's leave Beal out of it since we don't know whether or not he'll ever be worth the max. What we do know is that both Harden and Wall are getting max pay. Could or should the Zards have two max pay players--Harden and Wall? Yes or no?

YES!!!

Put it this way, the Miami Heat have 3 players that will make more than $5 mil more than what Wall will make next season - and none of them signed a "max contract". Or put it this way, Harden's teammate, Dwight Howard, makes 6-7 million more per year than Harden does.

That's the problem I've brought up a few time with the term "max contract". There are 3 types of max contracts. The kind that Harden and Wall signed was the smallest kind - starting at 25% of the current cap.

Also... when you're considering a trade, you don't not do it because you're afraid a player you already have might have a max contract 3 years down the road. That's a problem you don't mind having. It means you have talent. Having talent is needed to compete for championships. Supposedly, teams exist to try to win them at some point.

[stevemcqueen1]

All of the Harden speculation has come back because Beal has struggled recently?

[LyricalRico]

All of the Harden speculation has come back because Beal has struggled recently?

I know, right? Beal being in a slump somehow equals "fire Ernie".

[tontoz]

All of the Harden speculation has come back because Beal has struggled recently?

I know, right? Beal being in a slump somehow equals "fire Ernie".

Actually "fire Ernie" predates Beal's first game as a professional.