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How do you fix this team?

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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#481 » by hands11 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:45 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:eitanr, early this season, McGrady on ability would have been a godsend for this team. I see why you mentioned him originally. This season, if he had been with Washington and not Detroit--which has loads of swingmen types like Stuckey, Hamilton, Daye, and Prince; McGrady's triumphant return would have been just as good but his minutes would not have caused strife. McGrady at PG has been surprisingly effective. He could have been a Livingston-type to Wall, and also Nick's backup--as well as the starting SF. McGrady's skillset with passing and defense now could have helped this team a bunch. I agree Dumars wanting him was perplexing. That team also has gunners Gordon and Bynum. Their coach has an impossible logjam of perimeter players to keep happy!

Next season, however, for reasons discussed, McGrady would IMO be miserable and a rebellious, bad influence on the Wizards now that he's back as a darned good player. Dumars took him when everybody thought T-Mac was done. Now the guy's back and IMO not humble, and not a guy that would want to be rebuilding a losing situation or mentoring. I don't think playing time or a good contract would make McGrady a Wizard glue guy/role model.

Grant Hill, OTOH, I would throw two years and 7Mil at right away.


Grant about be a great add.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#482 » by Ruzious » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:28 pm

I'm all for adding a wise veteran at the end of his career, but committing over MLE money for more than 1 season is a terrible strategy. Besides, if Hill thinks he has something left in the tank, it'd make sense for him to try to hook up with a contender. If he doesn't, then you consider making him an offer - and make it close to the veteran minimum. Btw, my preference for that strategy would be the other ex-Dukee: Battier = defense.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#483 » by eitanr » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:30 pm

hands11 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:eitanr, early this season, McGrady on ability would have been a godsend for this team. I see why you mentioned him originally. This season, if he had been with Washington and not Detroit--which has loads of swingmen types like Stuckey, Hamilton, Daye, and Prince; McGrady's triumphant return would have been just as good but his minutes would not have caused strife. McGrady at PG has been surprisingly effective. He could have been a Livingston-type to Wall, and also Nick's backup--as well as the starting SF. McGrady's skillset with passing and defense now could have helped this team a bunch. I agree Dumars wanting him was perplexing. That team also has gunners Gordon and Bynum. Their coach has an impossible logjam of perimeter players to keep happy!

Next season, however, for reasons discussed, McGrady would IMO be miserable and a rebellious, bad influence on the Wizards now that he's back as a darned good player. Dumars took him when everybody thought T-Mac was done. Now the guy's back and IMO not humble, and not a guy that would want to be rebuilding a losing situation or mentoring. I don't think playing time or a good contract would make McGrady a Wizard glue guy/role model.

Grant Hill, OTOH, I would throw two years and 7Mil at right away.


Grant about be a great add.


I'll agree to the above. It is true that in the end T-Mac could be more harm than good if he is too vocal about the team losing and would likely be more pricey given his recent production.

I still feel the resolution needs to at least be a 2-guard. If Washington can net Sullinger via the draft yay, but a more likely scenario is now seeming we don't get lucky enough to get the top pick two years in a row (and I have a gut feeling Sully is going number one now, especially of Ohio State reaches the final four) and thus I just don't see Sully being as realistic of a draft option as I once did.

What I do see is someone like Harrison Barnes improving and fitting in the top 5 around where Washington should be picking. He has played well of late and reminds me of a hybrid of past wing talents of the last decade which include a young Paul Pierce, McGrady, Danny Granger...I feel he is a combo of those 3, but probably not as talented, but does have some legit potential and a relativley high ceiling (higher than anyone after Sullinger likely at around where the Wiz will be picking). So playing the what-of game, if the Wiz draft someone like Barnes and simply hope Blatche (who has been playing far better of late, when health) and Booker (who has been on a tear of late) can man the 4 slot, with Lewis playing a bit there, the more immediate need and one that can help the team as a whole is a spacing 2.

In such a scenario I like Mike Dunleavy JR as a candiate to a 2 yr 8 mill dollar deal with the 2nd yr a team option (does he take that?).

I think a guy like Dunleavy spaces the floor well for Wall and for Barnes to slash. He would also allow more isolated high post play for Blatche and isolated post play for Booker. Is he a good mentor? Unsure. But I do feel he rebounds fairly well for a 2 (because of his height) and has shown a high bball IQ throughout his career.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#484 » by Rafael122 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:55 pm

It seems like every week some team is going to follow the OKC model. I hate this, it's becoming a trend now. I've said it time and time again, OKC had the easiest decision in the world, just pick the guy Portland didn't pick and be done with it. Not to mention they got Jeff Green (who they traded away) and Russell Westbrook in the lottery. 3 years of picking in the lottery, with one of them being a franchise player and you're bound to have some success sooner rather than later.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#485 » by Ruzious » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:57 pm

Dunleavy's a good player, but at 31 and going on his last major contract - why would he come here unless the Wiz over-pay on a long-term contract? And why would the Wiz tie up big money on a 31 year old jump shooter with obvious limitations? The goal is not to win as many games as possible next season at the expense of the future.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#486 » by Jay81 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:35 pm

Rafael122 wrote:It seems like every week some team is going to follow the OKC model. I hate this, it's becoming a trend now. I've said it time and time again, OKC had the easiest decision in the world, just pick the guy Portland didn't pick and be done with it. Not to mention they got Jeff Green (who they traded away) and Russell Westbrook in the lottery. 3 years of picking in the lottery, with one of them being a franchise player and you're bound to have some success sooner rather than later.


i said the same thing a few posts ago. How would the OKC Model look if they had Oden instead of Durant? Its getting really old...i
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#487 » by verbal8 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:04 pm

Jay81 wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:It seems like every week some team is going to follow the OKC model. I hate this, it's becoming a trend now. I've said it time and time again, OKC had the easiest decision in the world, just pick the guy Portland didn't pick and be done with it. Not to mention they got Jeff Green (who they traded away) and Russell Westbrook in the lottery. 3 years of picking in the lottery, with one of them being a franchise player and you're bound to have some success sooner rather than later.


i said the same thing a few posts ago. How would the OKC Model look if they had Oden instead of Durant? Its getting really old...i


I think a couple of teams(Bobcats, Cavs) are using it as an excuse to the fan base to make the team suck and cut costs. If you keep doing that it is the Clippers model(sucking and cutting costs). If you continually add young talent and never consolidate that is the Blazers model(which everyone might emulate if Oden was healthy).

I think Sacramento can kind of claim they are following the OKC model, although they didn't get a lot out of their cap space. The Sixers and Indy can't really unless they somehow deal their star for a true all-NBA level player.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#488 » by eitanr » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:11 pm

The Bulls model probably makes a lot more sense specifically to the Wizards franchise as Rose and Noah are two similar young cornerstones (or were) to Wall and McGee.

Back to the 2-guard point. Does Dunleavy JR get a long contract from somewhere else? If so, it may just make sense to trade for that stop gap 2 if it means getting a nice asset (pick etc) to go along with it. The question is what teams have 2-guards with semi lenghthy deals that would give the Wizards any incentives to take on those contracts. Here is my list (not my suggestions) of those teams that currently employ such 2-guards or wings, that they may be willing to trade them along with a pick just to clear out their cap perhaps, and/or have other players needing those minutes etc.

Detroit - Richard Hamilton
Indiana - Dahntay Jones
Lakers - Luke Walton
New Jersey - Travis Outlaw
Phoenix - Josh Childress
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#489 » by LyricalRico » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:19 pm

I'd only touch Rip if we get DET's lotto pick with no protection (which I would guess isn't available).

Dahntay Jones is a backup IMO, so I'm not going out of my to acquire him unless it's part of a larger scenario where we get either Granger or Posey's expiring.

I've always liked everything about Walton's game - other than the injuries. I don't really see him helping us much and LA already gave up their pick to dump Vujacic.

Outlaw for Blatche is interesting if we draft a PF.

Childress+first for Blatche is something I'd LOVE to do, probably my fave of all these possibilities.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#490 » by Kanyewest » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:32 pm

Rafael122 wrote:It seems like every week some team is going to follow the OKC model. I hate this, it's becoming a trend now. I've said it time and time again, OKC had the easiest decision in the world, just pick the guy Portland didn't pick and be done with it. Not to mention they got Jeff Green (who they traded away) and Russell Westbrook in the lottery. 3 years of picking in the lottery, with one of them being a franchise player and you're bound to have some success sooner rather than later.


Don't forget Harden. Plus they got other young guys like Ibaka (who is probably the 3rd most valuable prospect on that team; probably would be 2nd on the Wizards) and Eric Maynor. Although that Cole Aldrich pick hasn't really worked out. Point is it takes patience.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#491 » by LyricalRico » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:36 pm

Kanyewest wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:It seems like every week some team is going to follow the OKC model. I hate this, it's becoming a trend now. I've said it time and time again, OKC had the easiest decision in the world, just pick the guy Portland didn't pick and be done with it. Not to mention they got Jeff Green (who they traded away) and Russell Westbrook in the lottery. 3 years of picking in the lottery, with one of them being a franchise player and you're bound to have some success sooner rather than later.


Don't forget Harden. Plus they got other young guys like Ibaka (who is probably the 3rd most valuable prospect on that team; probably would be 2nd on the Wizards) and Eric Maynor. Although that Cole Aldrich pick hasn't really worked out. Point is it takes patience.


Good points. Folks also have to remember that the Thunder got Green and created the cap space that allowed them to do the BOYD deals for Maynor/Aldrich by trading Ray Allen. So following the "OKC Model" would have to include having a healthy All-Star player that can be dealt for young talent and picks. We don't have that, which is why I'm for doing the opposite - trading young talent and picks for a youngish All Star.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#492 » by Kanyewest » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:37 pm

eitanr wrote:The Bulls model probably makes a lot more sense specifically to the Wizards franchise as Rose and Noah are two similar young cornerstones (or were) to Wall and McGee.


I wouldn't say the Bulls model is similar (although I guess Rose and Wall are comparable) especially since the Bulls had been stock piling top 5-6 picks before Rose got there. In the the 2000s their top 5 picks included Ben Gordon, and Tyrus Thomas. Bulls also had high first round picks with Crawford and Hinrich. The only top 5 picks that the Wizards had prior to Wall they traded away. The last time they picked in top 5 and kept the pick was Kwame Brown.

Noah is a MUCH better prospect than McGee. Yup McGee has all the tools but doesn't have the brain.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#493 » by eitanr » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:37 pm

Taking a glance at the salaries, I think Childress' deal is just too length to consider. His deal really doesn't end until 2015 (since he has a player option his final year) and does hover around 6-7 million per year.

The underrated deal I see above is actually Richard Hamilton's deal. I know it may sound too nutty, but he does give nice veteran presence and even though his deal is extremely high in price, it does end in 2013, expiring with Rashard Lewis' deal.

Now here's the thing, if I'm Washington, and I can get one of Sullinger (hopefully) or even Derrick Williams with my first pick, would I deal Andray Blatche and cap space for Richard Hamilton and Detroit's pick (top 3 protected) assuming it hovers around 7?

Washington could come away with one of Sullinger or Derrick Williams with their own pick...and then hopefully one of Barnes, P. Jones, J. Vesley, or Terrence Jones with that Detroit pick. So in a worst case the following would be your lineup until 2013, which hopefully then more youth are developed and you have better standing around the league to make a more impactful move with that extra cap space.
PF J. Sullinger/ T. Booker
SF H. Barnes/ R. Lewis
C J. McGee/ K. Seraphin
SG R. Hamilton/ Jordan Crawford
PG J. Wall/ N. Smith (ATL Pick suggestion)
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#494 » by Kanyewest » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:44 pm

^^ I don't think getting Detroit's lottery pick is realistic. Outside of getting Dwight Howard in a free agent heist, the Wizards may have to tank a couple more years to get another top flight player.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#495 » by DCZards » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:19 pm

I doubt that Detroit would give up Hamilton and their top pick for Blatche. In addition, I'm guessing that they want to build around Monroe and would want to keep their pick.

I do like the idea of adding Rip though. He's a proven, solid vet who I believe has a couple of more years in him...especially as a backup. I'm not a fan of signing Dunleavy. He's injured too often, and when he does play he's awfully inconsistent. I'd rather give those minutes to a Nick or J. Crawford.

If the Wizards keep their second first round pick (I believe it's #20) and JuJuan Johnson from Purdue is still on the board...I say grab him. He's going to be a solid pro...and he comes with 4 years of college experience.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#496 » by Jay81 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:23 pm

What about the OKC model machine that took Harden over Tyreke Evans?
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#497 » by nate33 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:24 pm

One other thought about the OKC model: it allowed them to negotiate that Nick Collison contract. We could employ the same tactic over and over again. When Nick is a free agent this summer, front load his salary so he is paid $12M, $3M, $3M, $3M. Next year, when McGee is a free agent (assuming he turns the corner and is worth $7M a year) front load his salary too: $15M, $5M, $5M, $5M, $5M). The idea is to get all these borderline starting-caliber players locked up at a backup's salary. That way, we don't have to let guys like Booker and Seraphin walk when they're free agents. Also, the guys we have locked up at below-market salary will become good trading pieces down the road.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#498 » by LyricalRico » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:38 pm

^ Doing a little research, it might save money down the road but I wonder if it will have the expected impact on the actualy cap itself. From Larry Coon:

Teams are allowed to offer the players they sign a bonus worth as much as 20% of the total compensation (17.5% in offer sheets to restricted free agents signed after March 1, 2006). A signing bonus is spread among the guaranteed seasons in the contract (but not to option years or years following an ETO), in proportion to the percentage of salary in each of those seasons that is guaranteed*.


http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q65

So based on that, it sounds like the amount of the signing bonus is still spread out over the life of the contract for salary cap purposes. Sort of like the NFL, where the signing bonus amount is pro-rated over the live of the deal.

That makes it less impactful from a cap perspective IMO. Would it really be much different from signing a guy to a contract that decreases in value from year to year? Am I missing something?
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#499 » by nate33 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:50 pm

It is my understanding that that only applies to true signing bonuses. This wouldn't be a signing bonus. It's their actual contractual pay scale. And it's not something that anybody can do. It can only be done if a team is far enough under the cap to pay the initial salary. You can't do it using and exemption.
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Re: How do you fix this team? 

Post#500 » by LyricalRico » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:55 pm

nate33 wrote:It is my understanding that that only applies to true signing bonuses. This wouldn't be a signing bonus. It's their actual contractual pay scale. And it's not something that anybody can do. It can only be done if a team is far enough under the cap to pay the initial salary. You can't do it using and exemption.


But then wouldn't this apply:

Typically a salary can decrease by the same amount it can increase. For example, since the Larry Bird exception limits raises to 10.5% of the first-year salary, the salary may also decrease by no more than 10.5% of the first-year salary.


http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q47

Or is that only talking about new contracts, not extensions?

I don't think it could be a re-negotiation because of this:

Only teams under the cap can renegotiate a contract, and the salary in the then-current season can be increased only to the extent that the team has room under the cap. Raises in subsequent years are limited to 10.5% of the salary in the first renegotiated season. The renegotiation may not contain a signing bonus. Contracts cannot be renegotiated downward (players can't take a "pay cut" in order to create salary cap room for the team) or to contain fewer seasons.


http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q53

I'm not saying I doubt that it's possible. I'm just struggling to find where it's explicitly stated that teams can do what OKC apparently did with Collison.

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