Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[tontoz]

Argh Kev you didn't answer the key question -- What do you think about trading McGee for Williams straight up? The world wants to know.

I probably shouldn't admit this but i just now realized where he got his username from.

*insert Homer Simpson (DOH) pick here*

[tontoz]

More good stuff about Marcus Morris. He was very good at the combine, killed Chris Singleton in Cleveland, and now Silas is propping him up. If we could trade down, he's the guy I'd target.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... Floor_Game

Charlotte Bobcats coach Paul Silas said there's an efficiency about the way Marcus Morris plays that suggests far more experience than that of a college junior.

"It's his help-side defense or his blocking out. They really don't do a whole lot of that in college," Silas said after the workout. "Or him posting up and then fading back on the jumper. He already knows if he just goes inside, there's a chance he's going to get it blocked.

"He knows to position himself to be successful with the basketball. That's most important in this league - knowing who you are and what you have to do. And he most certainly does.

"With most kids in this league, you have to wait two or three years for them because they don't understand what's going on," Silas said. "You have guys who are athletic, but don't know how to play. You have guys who know how to play but aren't very athletic. You have to have one of the two, and if you have both you can be outstanding.”

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... z1OtbKr97i

If the Wizards stay at 6 i am fine with taking him there. If they trade down he might not be available. The Cavs are reportedly interested in trading down for him.

[Ed Wood]

Because I don't think there's much more to say about Jan Vesely, but because this is an interesting article, I present without comment:
http://www.in-the-game.org/?p=6979

[LyricalRico]

More good stuff about Marcus Morris. He was very good at the combine, killed Chris Singleton in Cleveland, and now Silas is propping him up. If we could trade down, he's the guy I'd target.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... Floor_Game

Charlotte Bobcats coach Paul Silas said there's an efficiency about the way Marcus Morris plays that suggests far more experience than that of a college junior.

"It's his help-side defense or his blocking out. They really don't do a whole lot of that in college," Silas said after the workout. "Or him posting up and then fading back on the jumper. He already knows if he just goes inside, there's a chance he's going to get it blocked.

"He knows to position himself to be successful with the basketball. That's most important in this league - knowing who you are and what you have to do. And he most certainly does.

"With most kids in this league, you have to wait two or three years for them because they don't understand what's going on," Silas said. "You have guys who are athletic, but don't know how to play. You have guys who know how to play but aren't very athletic. You have to have one of the two, and if you have both you can be outstanding.”

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... z1OtbKr97i

Well, Charlotte is sitting there at 9, so unless we only drop down two spots, he's not going to be there. But if Valanciunas opts out of the draft and we're not able to move up, maybe we can get Charlotte to give us something to trade up to make sure they get Morris?

Lewis+6 for Diaw+9+filler?

We'd still be looking at names like Biyombo and even Leonard and/or Vesely to select from, and we really help our 2012 cap situation in the process.

[TGW]

Because I don't think there's much more to say about Jan Vesely, but because this is an interesting article, I present without comment:
http://www.in-the-game.org/?p=6979

I wouldn't be opposed to IF he didn't rebound so poorly. How is it that a player that's 6'11, athletic, and quick only manages to grab 3 rebounds a game? If you don't have an offensive game (and Vesely by all accounts, does not) rebounding and defense should be your bread and butter.

[Zonkerbl]

Because I don't think there's much more to say about Jan Vesely, but because this is an interesting article, I present without comment:
http://www.in-the-game.org/?p=6979

Huh, another Tom Chambers comparison. That'd be ok. Tom Chambers had a reliable jump shot though.

[Ed Wood]

Vesely seems a little too much like JaVale as a rebounder, respectable or even good on the offensive glass and awful defensively. That might suggest he's capable of being good (ie there's no physical reason he can't be) but doesn't assure me he Ves will be very effective for a power forward as a rebounder. His defensive impact was encouraging.

That site has a lot of good stuff, here are some stats from this season's euroleague:
http://www.in-the-game.org/?page_id=9936

Check out Valanciunas' rebounding rates.

edit: Vesely's defensive impact was not positive by +/- this year, offensively it was but not dramatically so.

edit 2: Valanciunas was the opposite, he had a negative impact offensively that was pretty significant and a positive impact defensively that was slightly larger.

[LyricalRico]

edit: Vesely's defensive impact was not positive by +/- this year, offensively it was but not dramatically so.

I don't think that's what the numbers in the article are saying, although they are presented pretty clumsily IMO. The team gave up less points when he was on the floor, but that was in 150 less minutes. If you divide the points by the minutes, you get this:

On - 1.8 ppm
Off - 1.9 ppm

So the team is slightly better defensively when he's on the floor. The article also shows that the team allows 4.3 more points per 70 posessions when Vesely is off the floor.

[Ed Wood]

Yes, but those are last year's stats I think, the article was published in '10. This year, going by the +/- stats elsewhere on the site Partizan gave up 71.5 points per 70 possessions when he was on the court and 70.7 with him off the court, so his impact would be negative.

So assuming you want to take a larger sample to normalize the results for projection he's probably overall a slightly positive influence, but not to a really significant extent.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

Well, Charlotte is sitting there at 9, so unless we only drop down two spots, he's not going to be there. But if Valanciunas opts out of the draft and we're not able to move up, maybe we can get Charlotte to give us something to trade up to make sure they get Morris?

Lewis+6 for Diaw+9+filler?

We'd still be looking at names like Biyombo and even Leonard and/or Vesely to select from, and we really help our 2012 cap situation in the process.

I read through CNN.SI today that the Bobcats are looking at using the 9 and 19 picks to move up. The only question is if they would be looking to move up higher than 6.

[WizarDynasty]

Because I don't think there's much more to say about Jan Vesely, but because this is an interesting article, I present without comment:
http://www.in-the-game.org/?p=6979

Thank's Wood for the link. I am definitely back on the Vesely bandwagon. Full steam ahead. Small forward on the now and future. I will take D. Will if i don't have to give up 18 or McGee...but there is not much of drop off with Vesely as pure 3. He fits john wall and are three and d need exceptionally well. there really isn't a need to trade down or up if he is on the board. we can grab him without blinking.

[Ruzious]

Well, Charlotte is sitting there at 9, so unless we only drop down two spots, he's not going to be there. But if Valanciunas opts out of the draft and we're not able to move up, maybe we can get Charlotte to give us something to trade up to make sure they get Morris?

Lewis+6 for Diaw+9+filler?

We'd still be looking at names like Biyombo and even Leonard and/or Vesely to select from, and we really help our 2012 cap situation in the process.

I read through CNN.SI today that the Bobcats are looking at using the 9 and 19 picks to move up. The only question is if they would be looking to move up higher than 6.

I'm kinda surprised, as the CharBobs might have the least talented roster in the NBA. They need as many players as they can get. I suppose a trade of #6 for 9 and 19 is possible. Wiz pick Faried at 9 and then Lynch and Harper at 18 and 19. Then trade Booker or Seraphin with our 2nd rounder to move up to take Vucevic.

[Hoopalotta]

Vesely seems a little too much like JaVale as a rebounder, respectable or even good on the offensive glass and awful defensively. That might suggest he's capable of being good (ie there's no physical reason he can't be) but doesn't assure me he Ves will be very effective for a power forward as a rebounder. His defensive impact was encouraging.

That site has a lot of good stuff, here are some stats from this season's euroleague:
http://www.in-the-game.org/?page_id=9936

Check out Valanciunas' rebounding rates.

edit: Vesely's defensive impact was not positive by +/- this year, offensively it was but not dramatically so.

edit 2: Valanciunas was the opposite, he had a negative impact offensively that was pretty significant and a positive impact defensively that was slightly larger.

Nice find there. Aside from Valentine's nice year, that Ricky Rubio was a better rebounder than Vesley jumped out; 8.2% DR% had him down with a bunch of point guards like Roko Ukic and Sergio Rodriguez.

[fishercob]

I remember reading/hearing at some point within the past few years that European stats were notoriously unreliable -- almost laughably so. Does anyone else remember this or know if there has/hasn't been any progress made on stat-keeping in Euro.

[Nivek]

Argh Kev you didn't answer the key question -- What do you think about trading McGee for Williams straight up? The world wants to know.

I don't watch enough college basketball to have an opinion that's worth much on the subject. I saw Williams in the Final Four, but that's it. He looked good. In general, I'd be willing to trade McGee for a generic 2nd pick in the draft. This draft may be the exception, though if it's as weak as folks keep saying it is. I like McGee and think he'll get better, but I think I'd trade him for the 2nd pick straight up.

[hands11]

Contenders are built around stars not soft, low IQ role players that roll with different names in the offseason.

I think we all can agree that contenders are built around stars.

But where some of us differ with you is the notion that Derrick Williams is a bonafide "star".

And when, where and for how much you find them.

To me nothing have changed since the season ended. It's seems to many here just have draft fever.

I say stick to the plan.

Facts.
We have a new owner coming into this second year who believes in a long term building draft model.
We have lots of young talent that have a ton of upside. We have assets that are not ripe.
We have the #1 pick hopeful star talent already on the team.
We found a very viable back up PG/SG late in the year.
We have a good cap number with only 1 player who really needs to get worked off of it.
There will be a new CBA that most likely will help us with that player and it will dictate what we do with Nick and every other player moving forward. You should know what the rules of the game will be before making any major decisions.
They added toughness in Booker, Seraphin and Crawford.
McGee IMO has to be given at least one more year. His upside it just to great.
Dray is similar but not as much upside but even an Odom would be awesome.

Short term problems.
1 - They need more pure outside shooters. Nick alone is no enough. And if they loose him, they are hurting even more. Come playoffs when the Ds get really tight, you need people that can hit from outside. They simply need more pure shooters to open things up.

2 - They need someone who can help at center. McGee may get there but you don't want to risk it all on one player. And even if he does, you want that mass type down there also. Hamady may be useful in another year but can't be counted on next year. You need center help. Seraphin is beef but a tweaner PF/C. You need more viable options there. Loosing Mcgee would only create a bigger hole.

3 - Slashing finisher who has the body and size to take the pounding and dish it out. A SG or SG/SF or SF or SF/PF type.

Now DW may be #3, but no way do I give up an asset like McGee to get him. That just creates another hole. And I wouldn't even give up a pick that would be used to get #1 or #2 because the team needs those things.

I wouldn't even focus on a pure D player at this point. I would hedge toward players who are not outright defensive holes though. That D player can be added later.

There are simply to many players on the board that can fill the holes this team has to give up picks or players to "maybe" get one thing. There are to many pure shooter to pass up on.

With the CBA and the FA class after that with players let go as teams downsize, now is not the time to trade assets swinging for the fence. Now is the time to stay the course, accumulate assets, let others get more ripe while plugging a few holes.

Two year plan. Not a this draft plan. Patience. They are only one year into this rebuild.

[tontoz]

Playing it safe is the path to mediocrity. Nick Young is the go to scorer on this team and that isn't going to work.

[hands11]

More good stuff about Marcus Morris. He was very good at the combine, killed Chris Singleton in Cleveland, and now Silas is propping him up. If we could trade down, he's the guy I'd target.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... Floor_Game

Charlotte Bobcats coach Paul Silas said there's an efficiency about the way Marcus Morris plays that suggests far more experience than that of a college junior.

"It's his help-side defense or his blocking out. They really don't do a whole lot of that in college," Silas said after the workout. "Or him posting up and then fading back on the jumper. He already knows if he just goes inside, there's a chance he's going to get it blocked.

"He knows to position himself to be successful with the basketball. That's most important in this league - knowing who you are and what you have to do. And he most certainly does.

"With most kids in this league, you have to wait two or three years for them because they don't understand what's going on," Silas said. "You have guys who are athletic, but don't know how to play. You have guys who know how to play but aren't very athletic. You have to have one of the two, and if you have both you can be outstanding.”

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... z1OtbKr97i

I would be very happy if they get Morris. Best talent, maturity, interview combo at our picks.

[closg00]

+1 on Morris, I'm close to putting him at #1 on my board for realistic 6th pick. Kanter will be gone, I think that Ernie will pass on Jonas and Walker.

[LyricalRico]

+1 on Morris, I'm close to putting him at #1 on my board for realistic 6th pick. Kanter will be gone, I think that Ernie will pass on Jonas and Walker.

Hey, as long as it means the end of Blatche, I'm fine with that.

Seriously, I'm finding that I don't have a particularly strong preference when it comes to this year's draft. I'm pretty much open to anything.