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Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13

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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#481 » by Dat2U » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:57 pm

Kanyewest wrote:"Otto Porter Searching For His Game In Vegas"
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page ... daily-dime


What I noticed is Otto is playing a step slow. It looks like he's trying to process and figure things out and that works against his instinctive skills. He's a cerebral player forced to learn on the spot and it's been a tough adjustment.

I know the 2/3 is interchangeable in the Wizards system but I don't see much utility out of putting Otto against smaller quicker 2s where his skill wouldn't really stand out. Also, it would have been real nice if we had a game manager on the court with the ability to at least get the Wizards into their sets and provide some organization. The PG play has been abominable thus far.
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#482 » by Rafael122 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:07 pm

jivelikenice wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:Hard to read some of the stuff that's been posted recently. Otto, Singleton and Vesely are playing with guys that are not probably going to be on an NBA roster this season.

And on top of that, for some asinine reason, they have Otto playing the 2-guard position when he's a natural 3. I didn't watch today's game, but the rush to judgment is beyond ridiculous and pretty much is no worse than a regular troll. It's summer league for crying out loud.

Maybe it IS a good thing that they are keeping Ariza and Wesbter. Otto is smart enough to adjust, but he needs to be brought along slowly.

Calm down.


Totally agree. The second guessing as gone to a level of absolute lunacy. Zeller has a good SL game and now is an allstar and Otto at best is the next Ariza. Absolutely comical.

If you actually watched a good amout of Georgetown ball this season (not just the NCAA tourney game), you'd realize what Otto's game is. He's a good mid range player and a developing three point shooter. He's versatile, a good passer, and moves well w/o the ball. The Wizards are playing him out of his comfort zone which isn't a bad thing. Throw him into the fire and see how he adjusts. He's such a hard worker that there's no doubt in my mind that he'll get there, its ludicrous to cap the upside of a 20 yr old with that much length.

Now I won't say i expected him to struggle like he has but look at the circumstances. This is a kid who played in the Princeton offense and avoided the AAU circuit. This is a whole new animal to him. He also only worked out for teams in the top three and you old see the impact its had on his conditioning (his legs just don't seem to be there).

I was torn between him and Bennett but I still see him as a great fit. When he gets on the floor with NBA caliber players he'll get shots in the flow of the offense. That J he hit right before halftime was prime example of a shot he'll get over and over again on this team. His midrange game will come in handy especially playing off Wall n the half court. Also with Wall's improving offense his ability to bring the ball up as a three will create more chances for Wall to be a scorer. This team doesn't have a second ball handler who can fascilitate. Otto may not be able to dribble drive off ISOs, but his ball handling/passing will give us that element and Wall won't have the burden of getting everyone going.

A day off before the next game is ideal. It will give him a day to look at film and make adjustments. Lets see how he responds. In the end though I want to see how he takes this SL experience and attackes workouts after this. This is where the Georgetown FA too comes into play. You know theyre going to put him to work at McDonough and he'll get a lot of run w/ Green, Hibbert and Monroe. These guys all had limited athleticism and maximized their talents. They'll push him. In terms of comps, I see the physical comparison to Tayshaun but I see game wise a similarity to Igoudola. He's not the athlete Andre is, but he's be a more efficient shooter/scorer. Andrea's carreer averages are 15/6/5. I think you'll see something close from Otto.


And just to piggyback off this, because it seems like Vesely and Singleton are playing well, I'm still not sold on them, because it is summer league and they're going up against rookies and D-leaguers, so they're suppose to play well.
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#483 » by tontoz » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:08 pm

:sleep3:
"bulky agile perimeter bone crunch pick setting draymond green" WizD
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#484 » by nate33 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:13 pm

deneem4 wrote:Fxk it im blaming the coaching and development staff once again....why the fcuk are we not scoring??..why the **** is otto playin 2...why the fck is little booker not getting shot attempts...why the **** dont we have a pg??? We couldve atleast invited seth curry, hes no pg, but he does have something to prove especially after his brother potlst season...but once again, wizards management failed...and we have 2 rookies who cant find them selves and 2 veterookies thats tryin to play without one...we need new staffing...were the only sl thats not scoring

Relax.

The Summer League is not a meaningful training tool. It's just a little distraction to earn some money and maintain a year-round interest in the NBA. The fact that EG didn't acquire a competent PG to run the summer league squad will have no long term impact on the development of Porter, Beal, Vesely, Singleton and whoever else. Real development takes place in practice.

Porter is going to learn a lot more in 5 on 5 intra-squad scrimmages. At least then he will be playing alongside veteran teammates - guys who will actually be playing with him in games, and he'll be going up against veteran defenders.
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#485 » by Dark Faze » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:16 pm

Otto is going to be fine--and this coming from someone who was in love and endorsed Olynyk on this board and was raged when we passed on Noel.

Give it time guys.
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#486 » by DCZards » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:37 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:Wall is the same guy he's always been. He didn't suddenly transform into a new person in March. He came into the league the same spectacular and transcendent talent he is today, doing things nobody had done since Oscar and Magic that early in their careers. Fans just got frustrated with him because we kept losing. It really is that simple. They lost perspective. They got impatient, got knee jerk living and dying with every quarter, sunk into negativity looking for scapegoats. That's what fans do. Players don't get patience and the benefit of the doubt from fans until they win championships. But it doesn't mean fan histrionics are any sort of reflection of reality. They almost never are.


Well said. It's simply not true that Wall "sucked" his first two seasons or that Jrue Holiday and K. Irving are better players than John simply because they made an all-star game before he did. Has John struggled as a shooter and with turnovers? Absolutely. But his out-of-this-world talent (on both ends of the court) has been obvious from day one and this notion that he all of sudden "got it" last March is total nonsense.
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#487 » by deneem4 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:44 pm

For the #3 who was suppose to be MOST NBA READY, hes proving the opposite, the simple fact otto was suppose to be nba ready is the biggest concern right now...its not like he plays pg or pf/c where he have to adjust to opponent size...
Hes playing sf, he should be hitting that midrange with ease...thats the same shot he had in college...waiting for him to develop is the exact reason we didnt trsde down for a derrick williams and olynyk or an ersan and shabazz...giving him excuses because of pg play is backwards...he should be able to have an impact even without a polished pg, eespecially against sl talent....thats why he was a top 3 pick...
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#488 » by GhostsOfGil » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:57 pm

deneem4 wrote:For the #3 who was suppose to be MOST NBA READY, hes proving the opposite, the simple fact otto was suppose to be nba ready is the biggest concern right now...its not like he plays pg or pf/c where he have to adjust to opponent size...
Hes playing sf, he should be hitting that midrange with ease...thats the same shot he had in college...waiting for him to develop is the exact reason we didnt trsde down for a derrick williams and olynyk or an ersan and shabazz...giving him excuses because of pg play is backwards...he should be able to have an impact even without a polished pg, eespecially against sl talent....thats why he was a top 3 pick...


I agree. While we should try and be patient, I think it's fair to criticize his play considering his "NBA readiness."
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#489 » by popper » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:15 pm

Based upon approx. 40 minutes of SL play I hereby declare Otto Porter a bust.

:lol: :roll: :oops:
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#490 » by LyricalRico » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:21 pm

popper wrote:Based upon approx. 40 minutes of SL play I hereby declare Otto Porter a bust.

:lol: :roll: :oops:


Agreed. Obviously Porter's performance over the last 2 days negates everything he's ever done previously in his life. In fact, I'm pretty much planning to not even bother watching any games this year since "he a bust". Might as well sign up for that winter long weeknight crochet class I've been putting off. LOL
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#491 » by verbal8 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:24 pm

popper wrote:Based upon approx. 40 minutes of SL play I hereby declare Otto Porter a bust.

:lol: :roll: :oops:


It is also looking like one of the weakest draft classes ever, according to that criteria :D

Only CJ McCollum, Olynyk and Zeller(one game) are the only lotto picks, that have looked very good in Summer league.
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#492 » by GhostsOfGil » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:32 pm

Eh no ones calling him a bust. But his first two games have been stinkers and it's fair to discuss it.
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#493 » by Rafael122 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:36 pm

GhostsOfGil wrote:Eh no ones calling him a bust. But his first two games have been stinkers and it's fair to discuss it.


But he's also playing out of position. I saw the first game, and this dude was attempting hook shots. And i'm sitting there wondering what the hell is going on. It would make sense to start Rice at 2, and Otto at 3 and see what happens. I get the whole idea of experimenting and see what works and what doesn't, but this combined with the fact that Ernie mentioned something about Otto being able to play the 2 is cause for concern. He's a natural 3.
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#494 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:38 pm

jivelikenice wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:Hard to read some of the stuff that's been posted recently. Otto, Singleton and Vesely are playing with guys that are not probably going to be on an NBA roster this season.

And on top of that, for some asinine reason, they have Otto playing the 2-guard position when he's a natural 3. I didn't watch today's game, but the rush to judgment is beyond ridiculous and pretty much is no worse than a regular troll. It's summer league for crying out loud.

Maybe it IS a good thing that they are keeping Ariza and Wesbter. Otto is smart enough to adjust, but he needs to be brought along slowly.

Calm down.


Totally agree. The second guessing as gone to a level of absolute lunacy. Zeller has a good SL game and now is an allstar and Otto at best is the next Ariza. Absolutely comical.

If you actually watched a good amout of Georgetown ball this season (not just the NCAA tourney game), you'd realize what Otto's game is. He's a good mid range player and a developing three point shooter. He's versatile, a good passer, and moves well w/o the ball. The Wizards are playing him out of his comfort zone which isn't a bad thing. Throw him into the fire and see how he adjusts. He's such a hard worker that there's no doubt in my mind that he'll get there, its ludicrous to cap the upside of a 20 yr old with that much length.

Now I won't say i expected him to struggle like he has but look at the circumstances. This is a kid who played in the Princeton offense and avoided the AAU circuit. This is a whole new animal to him. He also only worked out for teams in the top three and you old see the impact its had on his conditioning (his legs just don't seem to be there).

I was torn between him and Bennett but I still see him as a great fit. When he gets on the floor with NBA caliber players he'll get shots in the flow of the offense. That J he hit right before halftime was prime example of a shot he'll get over and over again on this team. His midrange game will come in handy especially playing off Wall n the half court. Also with Wall's improving offense his ability to bring the ball up as a three will create more chances for Wall to be a scorer. This team doesn't have a second ball handler who can fascilitate. Otto may not be able to dribble drive off ISOs, but his ball handling/passing will give us that element and Wall won't have the burden of getting everyone going.

A day off before the next game is ideal. It will give him a day to look at film and make adjustments. Lets see how he responds. In the end though I want to see how he takes this SL experience and attackes workouts after this. This is where the Georgetown FA too comes into play. You know theyre going to put him to work at McDonough and he'll get a lot of run w/ Green, Hibbert and Monroe. These guys all had limited athleticism and maximized their talents. They'll push him. In terms of comps, I see the physical comparison to Tayshaun but I see game wise a similarity to Igoudola. He's not the athlete Andre is, but he's be a more efficient shooter/scorer. Andrea's carreer averages are 15/6/5. I think you'll see something close from Otto.


You've watched a lot more of Otto than I have, jivelikenice. However, in all my criticism and wishing Otto was better in this summer league setting, I've said much the same.

--He will be better with Wall. I think it time he will be at least an above average NBA player. I agree that Otto Porter seems like the type to get better and better over time. --

Interesting comparison, that you see Otto as a less athletic Andre Iguodala. I will watch for that when I see Porter play in the future. Otto is certainly a different kind of player than Rip Hamilton, but those spindly legs are similar. So is his ability to move without the ball and his energy level, despite his slight build.

As far as comparing and saying Zeller is the better pick, I did that and I am sorry if that upset anyone. I believe Zeller is much more ready and he'll get better. It's a simple as that. I thought before the draft that it made more sense to draft a bigger player. The Wizards had Ariza and Webster at SF, but their bigs were both over 30 and one of them is injured much of the time, and declining rapidly IMO. Prior to the draft I said Zeller will score a lot of points, but I prefer Olynyk, because he's going to score inside and out with accuracy. Trade down. Zeller was a guy I thought would be good enough to pick 3rd.

I'm not throwing Porter out and my signature says he was a fine pick. Right now, I think he's going to take a couple years to become good, but he'll contribute in ways jivelikenice described above. The good news is Wall and Beal will probably be so good and Webster and Ariza so dialed in, there won't be any pressure on Otto to produce right away.
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#495 » by deneem4 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:43 pm

Im not considering him a bust..but considering his limited ceiling, he seem sort of raw right now...
we dont expect much from porter. Like cavs expect from bennet or magic expect from oladipo, the things we expect are mostly mental and a good jumper...
hes the only 1 in the top 10 this yr (except maybe kcp, depending on the looming rondo trade) thats not expected to put up big #s or shoulder a certain load for his chosen team...
I wanted us to go big Or trade down...wheter, len, zeller, adams, olynyk, or even noel...if we felt we had a playoff team last yr...why not draft in our aging area??...beal was the right choice last yr...we need a scoring sg badly...
With otto I jus feel hes not mentally ready which was his biggest attribute, and his defense is ehhh, hardaway look like he was goin to have a monster gamee against him b4 he got injured...
I think glen rice is goin to be better than porter...I feel the yr the wizards played it safe was the year to be the most risky...
I dont think porter will be a bust...but I dont think he'll be better than our current sfs...maybe he'll fit on another team, a spurs or thibs team, with vets around at most positions...
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#496 » by LyricalRico » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:47 pm

Rafael122 wrote:I saw the first game, and this dude was attempting hook shots. And i'm sitting there wondering what the hell is going on. It would make sense to start Rice at 2, and Otto at 3 and see what happens. I get the whole idea of experimenting and see what works and what doesn't, but this combined with the fact that Ernie mentioned something about Otto being able to play the 2 is cause for concern. He's a natural 3.


Agreed. I'm not liking the experimentation with Porter at SG. They should be making other guys experiment to see how they fit around Porter, not the other way around. And his length almost makes me think that, if they're going to do any experimentation, it would be with him at the 4 (which you can certainly do in SL since the rosters trend smaller).

But, either way, nate put it nicely that what happens during 5 SL games has zero impact on how Porter will do in the regular season. That's all going to be determined during training camp and the regular practices. It would be nice to see better basketball being played, but even that would really only be for entertainment value.
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#497 » by deneem4 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:51 pm

verbal8 wrote:
popper wrote:Based upon approx. 40 minutes of SL play I hereby declare Otto Porter a bust.

:lol: :roll: :oops:


It is also looking like one of the weakest draft classes ever, according to that criteria :D

Only CJ McCollum, Olynyk and Zeller(one game) are the only lotto picks, that have looked very good in Summer league.


Oladipo put up 19 points, 4.3 rebounds, 5 assists and 2.3 steals playing out of position....he seems most polished this year and is going to make an immediate impact, like porter he was scouted for his defense..on that note, hes definitely has the game defensively
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#498 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:52 pm

deneem4 wrote:Im not considering him a bust..but considering his limited ceiling, he seem sort of raw right now...
we dont expect much from porter. Like cavs expect from bennet or magic expect from oladipo, the things we expect are mostly mental and a good jumper...
hes the only 1 in the top 10 this yr (except maybe kcp, depending on the looming rondo trade) thats not expected to put up big #s or shoulder a certain load for his chosen team...
I wanted us to go big Or trade down...wheter, len, zeller, adams, olynyk, or even noel...if we felt we had a playoff team last yr...why not draft in our aging area??...beal was the right choice last yr...we need a scoring sg badly...
With otto I jus feel hes not mentally ready which was his biggest attribute, and his defense is ehhh, hardaway look like he was goin to have a monster gamee against him b4 he got injured...
I think glen rice is goin to be better than porter...I feel the yr the wizards played it safe was the year to be the most risky...
I dont think porter will be a bust...but I dont think he'll be better than our current sfs
...maybe he'll fit on another team, a spurs or thibs team, with vets around at most positions...


I agree. He's not going to hit threes like Webster and he won't be the defender Ariza is. Not for a 2-3 years would be my guess right now. Otto does seem like a great passer, capable of surpassing Ariza, another good passer. I think he might be able to rebound better with some added size and strength, but that's going to take time.

What I hope is Otto does like Beal, and just starts dropping shots with confidence. When that happens then he will show just why he went 3rd overall.

To me, Otto wasn't great as a freshman but he stepped up as a sophomore. He's going to probably do similarly in the NBA. Give him (and MKG) time.
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#499 » by GhostsOfGil » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:52 pm

Rafael122 wrote:
GhostsOfGil wrote:Eh no ones calling him a bust. But his first two games have been stinkers and it's fair to discuss it.


But he's also playing out of position. I saw the first game, and this dude was attempting hook shots. And i'm sitting there wondering what the hell is going on. It would make sense to start Rice at 2, and Otto at 3 and see what happens. I get the whole idea of experimenting and see what works and what doesn't, but this combined with the fact that Ernie mentioned something about Otto being able to play the 2 is cause for concern. He's a natural 3.


Ya raf, I agree. But he's going up against talent that should be beneath him. IDK.. right now im split. While obviously 2 games is not indicative of the player he is. I find it silly, people get irritated by the mere motion of discussing his struggles.
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Re: Wizards Summer League 2013 - Mini Camp 8th Games July 13 

Post#500 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:53 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:I saw the first game, and this dude was attempting hook shots. And i'm sitting there wondering what the hell is going on. It would make sense to start Rice at 2, and Otto at 3 and see what happens. I get the whole idea of experimenting and see what works and what doesn't, but this combined with the fact that Ernie mentioned something about Otto being able to play the 2 is cause for concern. He's a natural 3.


Agreed. I'm not liking the experimentation with Porter at SG. They should be making other guys experiment to see how they fit around Porter, not the other way around. And his length almost makes me think that, if they're going to do any experimentation, it would be with him at the 4 (which you can certainly do in SL since the rosters trend smaller).

But, either way, nate put it nicely that what happens during 5 SL games has zero impact on how Porter will do in the regular season. That's all going to be determined during training camp and the regular practices. It would be nice to see better basketball being played, but even that would really only be for entertainment value.


The question I thought was would an experiment of Otto at PF go any better?

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