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Political Roundtable Part XIX

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Wizardspride
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#481 » by Wizardspride » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:48 pm

stilldropin20 wrote:
BigA wrote:
closg00 wrote:I know you don’t care about Trump law-breaking, but the payoff was illegal.
https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/01/22/stormy-daniels-trump-payment-illegal-donation-357250

That's an interesting question. The John Edwards - Rielle Hunter business is mentioned in that article, and is a useful precedent. Edwards was acquitted on one count and the jury was hung on several others (the jury votes on the other counts favored acquittal). The key issue was whether Edwards was knowingly violating campaign finance laws when he used donor money to pay off Hunter and cover up the affair, that they had a kid, etc.

So if there's doubt about whether/how much Trump knew about the payment, that might make it tougher to convict. On the other hand, you could argue that Trump has famously carried on all sorts of affairs that have been publicized, and Stormy wouldn't have been paid off if Trump wasn't running (an argument strengthened by the timing of the payment weeks before the election and years after the affair).


ok. a man who took up the call to action. I salute you kind sir!

but before we establish any kind of wrong doing or illegality to any of this we must first even establish if there even was an affair. which is not a crime btw. and at this point. it certainly aint something that will "stick to the teflon trump. Either way, right now both Trump and Stormy... both of them in fact deny the affair. trump's reason is obvious and stormy is under a lawful non disclosure so in theory she cant talk about it or risk being sued for everything she has both current and stands to make in the future. but that NDS may always remain lawful and she may never be able to tell the truth or risk being successfully sued for everything. so if mueller or anyone calls her, she might be better off to continue to deny it.

keep in mind that she (likely?) may be doing the entire thing for publicity and money. I mean she was having sex for as little as $300 per scene not that long before this non disclosure. By "scene" i do mean...er well...you can google it. Also keep in mind that so far nothing has been leaked besides a silly photo that was, like, at a golf outing or something? and she looks more like a blood thirsty fan in that photo vs. someone actually having an affair. still. either way. BOTH deny the affair at this point.



Honestly, I don't really care about this topic but you're wrong about bolded part.

Stormy Daniels has stated she had an affair with Trump....and might have texts/pics/videos to prove it.

Apparently, she's offered to return the money as well.

Read on Twitter

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#482 » by closg00 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:55 pm

dckingsfan wrote:This is almost as disturbing as the fact that we even have a DOE - a complete and abject failure since the Carter administration. It is a money sink with no end game.

If you add on the loans for higher ed - geez...

Wizardspride wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=20


:o Like Kelly Anne, she had some work done
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#483 » by cammac » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:58 pm

A very long read about the Koch Brothers and the family fortune!
Will give some low lights?
In 1980, David Koch ran for Vice President of the United States on the Libertarian ticket. They received 1% of the vote.

"Instead of accepting America's verdict, they (the Koch brothers) set out to change how it voted. They used their fortune to impose their minority views on the majority by other means. They poured hundreds of millions of dollars into a stealthy effort to move their political views from fringe to the center of American life."

"The secession of the rich in which they "Disconnect themselves from the civic life of the nation and from any concern about it's well-being except as a place to extract loot"

Paul Krugman : "We have two unelected multibillionaires who want to control the U.S. government and exercise the power to decide what is best for more than 300 million American people, without the voices of these people being heard."

"We are on the road not just to a highly unequal society, but to a society of an oligarchy. A society of inherited wealth."


"The program was a success, forming the backbone of the future Russian petroleum industry. 'Fred Koch continued to provide technical assistance to the Soviets as they constructed one hundred plants, according to one report, but the advisory work was less profitable."

"What happened next has been excised from the official corporate history of Koch Industries."
"After leaving the U.S.S.R., Fred Koch turned to Adolf Hitler's Third Reich. "
"Under Fred Koch's direction, the refinery was finished in 1935. With the capacity to process a thousand tons of crude a day, the third-largest refinery in the Third Reich was created by the collaboration between Davis and Koch. Significantly, it was also one of the few refineries in Germany, according to Harrington, that could "produce the high-octane gasoline needed to fuel fighter planes. Naturally,
...."the American venture became "a key component of the Nazi war machine."

“Fred Koch... wrote admiringly about fascism in Germany, and elsewhere.…”

"Frederick, known by the family as Freddie, was born in 1933, Charles was born in 1935, and twins, David and William, were born in 1940."

"In 1958, Fred Koch became one of eleven original members of the John Birch Society … Koch claimed that "the Communists have infiltrated both the Democrat and Republican Parties."

“Protestant churches, public schools, universities, labor unions, the armed services, the State Department, the World Bank, the United Nations, and modern art, in his view, were all Communist tools.”

He said this without shame, knowing he "profited himself from Soviet Communism by building up the U.S.S.R.’s oil industry."

"Blazing a trail that would later be followed by his sons, Koch tapped his fortune to subsidize his political activism."

"One ploy the group used, he said, was to set up phony front groups "pretending to be other than what they were." An alphabet soup of secretly connected organizations sprang up, with acronyms like TRAIN (To Restore American Independence Now) and TACT (Truth About Civil Turmoil). Another tactic was to wrap the group’s radical vision in mundane and unthreatening slogans that sound familiar today, such as "less government, more responsibility."

"He provided substantial support for Barry Goldwater’s right-wing bid for the Republican nomination in 1964. Goldwater, too, opposed the Civil Rights Act and the Supreme Court’s landmark desegregation decision, Brown v. Board of Education."

"In 1968, Fred Koch went further right still…. calling for racial segregation and the abolition of all income taxes….the Foundation for Economic Education, which spread a version of laissez-faire economics so extreme "it bordered on anarchism,"

"Fred saw taxes in America darkly, as incipient socialism. Early on, the Internal Revenue Service had sued his company for underpayment of taxes, requiring a large additional payment as well as penalties and legal fees. He remained vehemently opposed to estate taxes, and told Charles that he feared the U.S. government would tax him so heavily it might force him to sell the family business, diminishing his sons’ inheritances."

On Charles Koch : "When he was twenty-six, graduating with a bachelor of science in engineering and master’s degrees in nuclear and chemical engineering from MIT….economic anti-government writers…..these were the theories that captivated Charles."

1967 : "Fred Koch died of a heart attack. Charles, then thirty-two years old, became chairman and CEO of the family business,"

Fred Koch's Estate planning had him :" set up a charitable lead trust" that enabled him to pass on his estate to his sons without inheritance taxes, so long as the sons donated the accruing interest on the principle to charity for twenty years. To maximize their self-interest, in other words, the Koch boys were compelled to be charitable. Tax avoidance was thus the original impetus for the Koch brothers’ extraordinary philanthropy."


"Charles’s embrace of the John Birch Society, according to Coppin, was in part designed to please the old man.
…in 1968, Charles resigned from the organization…."

Charles was involved with the Freedom School

"The school taught a revisionist version of American history in which the robber barons were heroes, not villains, and the Gilded Age was the country’s golden era. Taxes were denigrated as a form of theft, and the Progressive movement, Roosevelt’s New Deal, and Lyndon Johnson’s War on Poverty, in the school’s view, were ruinous turns toward socialism. The weak and poor, the school taught, should be cared for by private charity, not government."
"...human beings should be allowed to sell themselves into slavery if they wished."
"Constitution be scrapped in favor of one that limited the government’s authority to impose "compulsory taxation." The Times described LeFevre as also opposing Medicare and antipoverty programs and hinted that the school opposed government-sponsored integration, too."
Their goal was for the country to have :"...no government, no police department, no fire department, no public schools, no health or zoning laws, not even national defense."

The school's founder : "...was almost as adamantly opposed to America’s government as he was to Communism....
"government is a disease masquerading as its own cure."
"...by 1966 Charles Koch was not only a major financial supporter of the school but also an executive and trustee."

This was "...a tiny world of people who thought the New Deal was a horrible mistake."

"but if you grew up with more money than God, and felt weird about it, this version of history, where the robber barons were heroes, would certainly make you feel a lot better about it." At the Freedom School,....romanticizing a lost golden age of idealized unfettered capitalism that arguably never existed for much of the population."

Charles Koch : "His hope was to use his wealth to inject his fringe views into the mainstream by turning the Freedom School into an accredited graduate school and then a four-year undergraduate program specializing in libertarian philosophy,..."
"He also gave a speech in the 1990s crediting the Freedom School with profoundly influencing him."


https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/3/12/1748318/-Union-of-the-Obscenely-Rich-The-Koch-Brothers
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#484 » by closg00 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:58 pm

Re: Stormy, she sold-out for way less than she can get now and she is looking to use a loophole so-that she can really cash-in BIG. It's gonna take 7 figures to buy her silence now.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#485 » by cammac » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:04 pm

538 has a good article on PA18 race and puts implications in perspective.
1. The partisanship

This seat became vacant in October 2017 after the resignation of GOP Rep. Tim Murphy, who admitted to an extramarital affair and allegedly asked his mistress to have an abortion despite his stated pro-life views. Before the scandal, the Republican had won eight consecutive elections in this district1 by margins of no fewer than 15 percentage points. In both 2014 and 2016, no Democrat even bothered to run against Murphy. President Trump carried the 18th District by nearly 20 points (58 percent to 39 percent); Mitt Romney won it by a similar margin in 2012. According to FiveThirtyEight’s weighted average of presidential results,2 the Pennsylvania 18th is 21 percentage points more Republican-leaning than the nation as a whole.

That’s very red — but so were most of the other places where we’ve seen special elections so far this cycle, and Democrats in the vast majority of those races have consistently done better than the partisan leans of their districts would predict. The margin in federal special elections specifically has moved 16 points toward Democrats compared to each constituency’s usual partisan lean. If that happens again in Pennsylvania, Democrats will be nipping at Republicans’ heels.


5. The aftermath

Tuesday will likely be the last time you hear about a competitive district in the Pennsylvania 18th, but whoever emerges victorious in the special will likely have to fight hard to keep his seat in the regularly scheduled November 2018 election. How can this be? Earlier this year, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court struck down the state’s current congressional map as too gerrymandered in favor of the GOP; in February, the court imposed new district lines that are friendlier to Democrats. The new map splits most of the current 18th District between the new heavily Republican 14th District and the swingier, suburban 17th District.

If Saccone wins on Tuesday, he has said that he would seek re-election in the 14th, but if Lamb wins, he is expected to go after the 17th, even though he would have to face incumbent Republican Rep. Keith Rothfus there. Of course, the loser could decide to take a second bite of the apple in either the 14th or the 17th as well. After all these long hours of campaigning and millions of dollars spent, it’s entirely possible that, at the beginning of 2019, Conor Lamb and Rick Saccone will both be members of Congress.

Both will also have to decide their next moves almost immediately after the last drink is poured at their election-night watch parties on Tuesday. The deadline to file to run in November is March 20, one week later.


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-pennsylvania-18th-special-election/
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#486 » by Wizardspride » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:08 pm

Read on Twitter

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#487 » by closg00 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:19 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
Read on Twitter


Manafort got the message? I have wondered about the safety of Mueller himself.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#488 » by cammac » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:41 pm

The balance of power in Congress might be hinged on a few States that are Blue
California, NJ, NY, Illinois & Virginia. Plus I think you must now add a Red State in Pennsylvania because of the redistricting.
530 reported awhile ago that 25 Districts in those States are vulnerable!
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/five-blue-states-could-determine-who-controls-the-house-in-2018/
In Pennsylvania 5 Districts are vulnerable and the obvious interest in PA18.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/pennsylvanias-new-map-helps-democrats-but-its-not-a-democratic-gerrymander/

Plus this interesting Politico article on California
When Republicans act like Trump isn’t the reason Mitt Romney’s 6-point victory in Orange County in 2012 turned into a 5-point win for Clinton in 2016—or when they insist they can keep Trump out of their 2018 races—they’re being purposely obtuse, California Democrats believe. “The idea that somehow it’s not a referendum on the administration? It’s like, that’s just not true,” says Tom Steyer, the San Francisco Democratic billionaire who’s spent at least $20 million running nationwide television ads calling for Trump’s impeachment. Steyer early this year pledged to spend $30 million more to help win the House, specifically targeting California’s seats. “We’re not making up that people hate this administration,” he says. “People are really scared. They dislike it. They are desperate to have their votes count against it.”


https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/03/11/orange-county-republicans-congress-217231?lo=ap_a1

SD20 can try to spin the Trump "Philosophy" which is a oxymoron to start with but he is deeply unpopular and with a unpopular Republican Party and the despised leadership of McConnell & Ryan is a recipe for disaster.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#489 » by stilldropin20 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:44 pm

Wizardspride wrote:And this is why I've never understood SD20's belief that Trump is "dying to make a deal. Just work with him" etc etc

Read on Twitter


my belief is that Trump wants to "win" or at least appear to win on all of his deals. Just like his foreign policy he wants to win and negotiates from a position of strength and leverage. So no one that stands up to him has any chance of putting a deal together. you have to cower. you have to humble yourself. you have to accept the crumbs. thats the only way to put something together with trump. which I clearly like as an American.

So why would anyone put a deal together with Trump?

Simple:

1. You must look for hidden value. You kind of have to "trick" trump into thinking he is winning the deal or you have be very quiet and humble about your "gains" in the deal so as not to make Trump look bad. and dems and (mexico) for that matter just cant understand this simple fact. mexico could put a massive trade deal that favors mexico right now if they just accept to pay for the wall. they could simply donate the materials and the most of the labor and some of the land in exchange for the US(military, cia, DOJ) to come down and clean up all the gang controlled drug trafficking. and get a favorable trade deal. mexican leaders can sell "the wall" as a way to keep guns out of mexico which gangs use to terrorize their citizens and run the drug trades.

that wall should be an easy win-win. but that jack ass mexican leader already got way out in front of himself say they would never pay for it. he later back tracked on Fox. And the leader does not want to appear weak. The result is Trump is just going to squeeze him harder on NAFTA or other trade stuff. which can all be completely avoided if mexico simply pays for 20% of the wall right now, donates half the labor and half the materials for the remaining 80% of the wall. In exchange, US forces must come down and clean up mexico's drug trafficers and protect their southern border and help build a southern border wall around mexico. Tyhe 2 countries are natural allies. and should announce and immediate reciprocity of citizenship where Mexico (once safe) will allow americans citzenship and vice versa on a 1-for-1 basis. Mexicans could then be allowed entrance into our universities more easily and allowed to serve in our military. I personally would love to buy land and live in mexico (if my investments and my life) was more protected.

The "wall" is actually a bridge to all of that. weird. but it is. stronger border could easily become a stronger relationship with the country itself. Bottom line: if ww3 breaks out the USA will need the mexican people to fight for us and mexico will need the US's heavy artillery to lay cover for the mexican people. So we may as well get on with that future necessary relationship right now anyway. help mexicans become more and more "americanized." Republicans just need to find a way to not allow dems to steal away all of the potential voters. and you do that with the 1-for-1 reciprocity and by making mexicans that come here be of age to work and serve in the US military first for 3 years in order to gain citizenship.

And thats just one way to make a deal with trump. but bottom line, you must give him the visable victory. and likely the overall victory. you take the high road and look for hidden gems within the deal. Dems like to grand stand though and like Mexico, Dems want to look strong standing up to trump. translation both care more about votes than doing the right thing for their constituents.

also dems have pinned their entire hopes on the mid term elections now that gave up on impeachment (jackazz ted lieu and little adam schiff and crazy maxine waters aside). which they brought absolutely nothing to the table except "we are not trump." no new ideas. nothing. at. all. except resist trump. what a complete joke. And thats why they cant get a deal done. they wont let him win. which is stupid. its not a basketball game. its politics, you take small victories when you are not in power. and major victories when you are in power. you should constantly work with the other side for the good of the people. instead of this divisive crap. CNN and the outgoing administration are complete buffoons. they mishandled the entire thing. first by letting HRC steam roll bernie. and 2nd by treating the results of the election as a race war fueled by 46K of russian ads on facebook as collusion. I mean could Obama and his entire outgoing administration bothched that entire election any worse?
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#490 » by stilldropin20 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:52 pm

cammac wrote:A very long read about the Koch Brothers and the family fortune!
Will give some low lights?
In 1980, David Koch ran for Vice President of the United States on the Libertarian ticket. They received 1% of the vote.

"Instead of accepting America's verdict, they (the Koch brothers) set out to change how it voted. They used their fortune to impose their minority views on the majority by other means. They poured hundreds of millions of dollars into a stealthy effort to move their political views from fringe to the center of American life."

"The secession of the rich in which they "Disconnect themselves from the civic life of the nation and from any concern about it's well-being except as a place to extract loot"

Paul Krugman : "We have two unelected multibillionaires who want to control the U.S. government and exercise the power to decide what is best for more than 300 million American people, without the voices of these people being heard."

"We are on the road not just to a highly unequal society, but to a society of an oligarchy. A society of inherited wealth."


"The program was a success, forming the backbone of the future Russian petroleum industry. 'Fred Koch continued to provide technical assistance to the Soviets as they constructed one hundred plants, according to one report, but the advisory work was less profitable."

"What happened next has been excised from the official corporate history of Koch Industries."
"After leaving the U.S.S.R., Fred Koch turned to Adolf Hitler's Third Reich. "
"Under Fred Koch's direction, the refinery was finished in 1935. With the capacity to process a thousand tons of crude a day, the third-largest refinery in the Third Reich was created by the collaboration between Davis and Koch. Significantly, it was also one of the few refineries in Germany, according to Harrington, that could "produce the high-octane gasoline needed to fuel fighter planes. Naturally,
...."the American venture became "a key component of the Nazi war machine."

“Fred Koch... wrote admiringly about fascism in Germany, and elsewhere.…”

"Frederick, known by the family as Freddie, was born in 1933, Charles was born in 1935, and twins, David and William, were born in 1940."

"In 1958, Fred Koch became one of eleven original members of the John Birch Society … Koch claimed that "the Communists have infiltrated both the Democrat and Republican Parties."

“Protestant churches, public schools, universities, labor unions, the armed services, the State Department, the World Bank, the United Nations, and modern art, in his view, were all Communist tools.”

He said this without shame, knowing he "profited himself from Soviet Communism by building up the U.S.S.R.’s oil industry."

"Blazing a trail that would later be followed by his sons, Koch tapped his fortune to subsidize his political activism."

"One ploy the group used, he said, was to set up phony front groups "pretending to be other than what they were." An alphabet soup of secretly connected organizations sprang up, with acronyms like TRAIN (To Restore American Independence Now) and TACT (Truth About Civil Turmoil). Another tactic was to wrap the group’s radical vision in mundane and unthreatening slogans that sound familiar today, such as "less government, more responsibility."

"He provided substantial support for Barry Goldwater’s right-wing bid for the Republican nomination in 1964. Goldwater, too, opposed the Civil Rights Act and the Supreme Court’s landmark desegregation decision, Brown v. Board of Education."

"In 1968, Fred Koch went further right still…. calling for racial segregation and the abolition of all income taxes….the Foundation for Economic Education, which spread a version of laissez-faire economics so extreme "it bordered on anarchism,"

"Fred saw taxes in America darkly, as incipient socialism. Early on, the Internal Revenue Service had sued his company for underpayment of taxes, requiring a large additional payment as well as penalties and legal fees. He remained vehemently opposed to estate taxes, and told Charles that he feared the U.S. government would tax him so heavily it might force him to sell the family business, diminishing his sons’ inheritances."

On Charles Koch : "When he was twenty-six, graduating with a bachelor of science in engineering and master’s degrees in nuclear and chemical engineering from MIT….economic anti-government writers…..these were the theories that captivated Charles."

1967 : "Fred Koch died of a heart attack. Charles, then thirty-two years old, became chairman and CEO of the family business,"

Fred Koch's Estate planning had him :" set up a charitable lead trust" that enabled him to pass on his estate to his sons without inheritance taxes, so long as the sons donated the accruing interest on the principle to charity for twenty years. To maximize their self-interest, in other words, the Koch boys were compelled to be charitable. Tax avoidance was thus the original impetus for the Koch brothers’ extraordinary philanthropy."


"Charles’s embrace of the John Birch Society, according to Coppin, was in part designed to please the old man.
…in 1968, Charles resigned from the organization…."

Charles was involved with the Freedom School

"The school taught a revisionist version of American history in which the robber barons were heroes, not villains, and the Gilded Age was the country’s golden era. Taxes were denigrated as a form of theft, and the Progressive movement, Roosevelt’s New Deal, and Lyndon Johnson’s War on Poverty, in the school’s view, were ruinous turns toward socialism. The weak and poor, the school taught, should be cared for by private charity, not government."
"...human beings should be allowed to sell themselves into slavery if they wished."
"Constitution be scrapped in favor of one that limited the government’s authority to impose "compulsory taxation." The Times described LeFevre as also opposing Medicare and antipoverty programs and hinted that the school opposed government-sponsored integration, too."
Their goal was for the country to have :"...no government, no police department, no fire department, no public schools, no health or zoning laws, not even national defense."

The school's founder : "...was almost as adamantly opposed to America’s government as he was to Communism....
"government is a disease masquerading as its own cure."
"...by 1966 Charles Koch was not only a major financial supporter of the school but also an executive and trustee."

This was "...a tiny world of people who thought the New Deal was a horrible mistake."

"but if you grew up with more money than God, and felt weird about it, this version of history, where the robber barons were heroes, would certainly make you feel a lot better about it." At the Freedom School,....romanticizing a lost golden age of idealized unfettered capitalism that arguably never existed for much of the population."

Charles Koch : "His hope was to use his wealth to inject his fringe views into the mainstream by turning the Freedom School into an accredited graduate school and then a four-year undergraduate program specializing in libertarian philosophy,..."
"He also gave a speech in the 1990s crediting the Freedom School with profoundly influencing him."


https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/3/12/1748318/-Union-of-the-Obscenely-Rich-The-Koch-Brothers


while the "koch bothers" are the problem. they are not the problem. the problem is inherited wealth. and tax laws. loop holes. and carve outs.

ive bene harping on this since the beginning. all you guys wanted to talk about was trump.

1. close down all loop holes and carve out in the tax system.
2. confiscate the wealth.
3. redistribute the wealth.
4. the koch brothers and anyone else like them goes away.
5. allow political movements to originate orgamnically instead of inspirations of the wealthy who have money to burn on passion projects like politics. remove their wealth!!!!! seize it!!! and be ready for war!! because they will not give up their wealth without a major world war. just like WW1.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#491 » by cammac » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:02 pm

The Trump steel tariff might be a boon for the Canadian auto industry!
The EU will continue to invest in North American auto industry and both Mercedes & BMW have successful auto assembly plants in the USA.
“Open up the barriers and get rid of your tariffs,” Trump said of the European Union’s trade policies in a wide-ranging and rollicking address in Pennsylvania Saturday. “And if you don’t do that, we’re going to tax Mercedes-Benz, we’re going to tax BMW.”


Trump made no mention of the German brands’ significance to two states that formed part of the bedrock of his support in 2016. BMW has an assembly plant employing more than 9,000 people in Spartanburg, South Carolina; about a third of the BMWs sold in the U.S. in 2017 were produced in the country, the company said. A Mercedes-Benz factory employs 3,500 people near Tuscaloosa, Alabama, according to data from the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers.

Daimler, the parent company of Mercedes-Benz, has a total of 23,500 employees in the U.S., according to data the company provided to POLITICO. Of 280,000 vehicles produced in Alabama last year, about 70 percent were exported, the company said. BMW also exports more than 70 percent of what it produces in South Carolina, the company told POLITICO, with China and Germany as the top two destinations.


Canada has been a favorite for the production of vehicles for Honda & Toyota and with free trade agreements with both the EU and TPP with Japan I can see new facilities built in Canada than the USA.
These are some of the lack of vision that the Trump Administration has on the economy!
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/11/trump-european-cars-tariffs-454722?lo=ap_e1
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#492 » by Pointgod » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:08 pm

cammac wrote:A very long read about the Koch Brothers and the family fortune!
Will give some low lights?
In 1980, David Koch ran for Vice President of the United States on the Libertarian ticket. They received 1% of the vote.

"Instead of accepting America's verdict, they (the Koch brothers) set out to change how it voted. They used their fortune to impose their minority views on the majority by other means. They poured hundreds of millions of dollars into a stealthy effort to move their political views from fringe to the center of American life."

"The secession of the rich in which they "Disconnect themselves from the civic life of the nation and from any concern about it's well-being except as a place to extract loot"

Paul Krugman : "We have two unelected multibillionaires who want to control the U.S. government and exercise the power to decide what is best for more than 300 million American people, without the voices of these people being heard."

"We are on the road not just to a highly unequal society, but to a society of an oligarchy. A society of inherited wealth."


"The program was a success, forming the backbone of the future Russian petroleum industry. 'Fred Koch continued to provide technical assistance to the Soviets as they constructed one hundred plants, according to one report, but the advisory work was less profitable."

"What happened next has been excised from the official corporate history of Koch Industries."
"After leaving the U.S.S.R., Fred Koch turned to Adolf Hitler's Third Reich. "
"Under Fred Koch's direction, the refinery was finished in 1935. With the capacity to process a thousand tons of crude a day, the third-largest refinery in the Third Reich was created by the collaboration between Davis and Koch. Significantly, it was also one of the few refineries in Germany, according to Harrington, that could "produce the high-octane gasoline needed to fuel fighter planes. Naturally,
...."the American venture became "a key component of the Nazi war machine."

“Fred Koch... wrote admiringly about fascism in Germany, and elsewhere.…”

"Frederick, known by the family as Freddie, was born in 1933, Charles was born in 1935, and twins, David and William, were born in 1940."

"In 1958, Fred Koch became one of eleven original members of the John Birch Society … Koch claimed that "the Communists have infiltrated both the Democrat and Republican Parties."

“Protestant churches, public schools, universities, labor unions, the armed services, the State Department, the World Bank, the United Nations, and modern art, in his view, were all Communist tools.”

He said this without shame, knowing he "profited himself from Soviet Communism by building up the U.S.S.R.’s oil industry."

"Blazing a trail that would later be followed by his sons, Koch tapped his fortune to subsidize his political activism."

"One ploy the group used, he said, was to set up phony front groups "pretending to be other than what they were." An alphabet soup of secretly connected organizations sprang up, with acronyms like TRAIN (To Restore American Independence Now) and TACT (Truth About Civil Turmoil). Another tactic was to wrap the group’s radical vision in mundane and unthreatening slogans that sound familiar today, such as "less government, more responsibility."

"He provided substantial support for Barry Goldwater’s right-wing bid for the Republican nomination in 1964. Goldwater, too, opposed the Civil Rights Act and the Supreme Court’s landmark desegregation decision, Brown v. Board of Education."

"In 1968, Fred Koch went further right still…. calling for racial segregation and the abolition of all income taxes….the Foundation for Economic Education, which spread a version of laissez-faire economics so extreme "it bordered on anarchism,"

"Fred saw taxes in America darkly, as incipient socialism. Early on, the Internal Revenue Service had sued his company for underpayment of taxes, requiring a large additional payment as well as penalties and legal fees. He remained vehemently opposed to estate taxes, and told Charles that he feared the U.S. government would tax him so heavily it might force him to sell the family business, diminishing his sons’ inheritances."

On Charles Koch : "When he was twenty-six, graduating with a bachelor of science in engineering and master’s degrees in nuclear and chemical engineering from MIT….economic anti-government writers…..these were the theories that captivated Charles."

1967 : "Fred Koch died of a heart attack. Charles, then thirty-two years old, became chairman and CEO of the family business,"

Fred Koch's Estate planning had him :" set up a charitable lead trust" that enabled him to pass on his estate to his sons without inheritance taxes, so long as the sons donated the accruing interest on the principle to charity for twenty years. To maximize their self-interest, in other words, the Koch boys were compelled to be charitable. Tax avoidance was thus the original impetus for the Koch brothers’ extraordinary philanthropy."


"Charles’s embrace of the John Birch Society, according to Coppin, was in part designed to please the old man.
…in 1968, Charles resigned from the organization…."

Charles was involved with the Freedom School

"The school taught a revisionist version of American history in which the robber barons were heroes, not villains, and the Gilded Age was the country’s golden era. Taxes were denigrated as a form of theft, and the Progressive movement, Roosevelt’s New Deal, and Lyndon Johnson’s War on Poverty, in the school’s view, were ruinous turns toward socialism. The weak and poor, the school taught, should be cared for by private charity, not government."
"...human beings should be allowed to sell themselves into slavery if they wished."
"Constitution be scrapped in favor of one that limited the government’s authority to impose "compulsory taxation." The Times described LeFevre as also opposing Medicare and antipoverty programs and hinted that the school opposed government-sponsored integration, too."
Their goal was for the country to have :"...no government, no police department, no fire department, no public schools, no health or zoning laws, not even national defense."

The school's founder : "...was almost as adamantly opposed to America’s government as he was to Communism....
"government is a disease masquerading as its own cure."
"...by 1966 Charles Koch was not only a major financial supporter of the school but also an executive and trustee."

This was "...a tiny world of people who thought the New Deal was a horrible mistake."

"but if you grew up with more money than God, and felt weird about it, this version of history, where the robber barons were heroes, would certainly make you feel a lot better about it." At the Freedom School,....romanticizing a lost golden age of idealized unfettered capitalism that arguably never existed for much of the population."

Charles Koch : "His hope was to use his wealth to inject his fringe views into the mainstream by turning the Freedom School into an accredited graduate school and then a four-year undergraduate program specializing in libertarian philosophy,..."
"He also gave a speech in the 1990s crediting the Freedom School with profoundly influencing him."


https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/3/12/1748318/-Union-of-the-Obscenely-Rich-The-Koch-Brothers


I'll say this. The Koch brothers are smart but evil ****. Their influence will probably take decades to undo.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#493 » by Pointgod » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:17 pm

cammac wrote:538 has a good article on PA18 race and puts implications in perspective.
1. The partisanship

This seat became vacant in October 2017 after the resignation of GOP Rep. Tim Murphy, who admitted to an extramarital affair and allegedly asked his mistress to have an abortion despite his stated pro-life views. Before the scandal, the Republican had won eight consecutive elections in this district1 by margins of no fewer than 15 percentage points. In both 2014 and 2016, no Democrat even bothered to run against Murphy. President Trump carried the 18th District by nearly 20 points (58 percent to 39 percent); Mitt Romney won it by a similar margin in 2012. According to FiveThirtyEight’s weighted average of presidential results,2 the Pennsylvania 18th is 21 percentage points more Republican-leaning than the nation as a whole.

That’s very red — but so were most of the other places where we’ve seen special elections so far this cycle, and Democrats in the vast majority of those races have consistently done better than the partisan leans of their districts would predict. The margin in federal special elections specifically has moved 16 points toward Democrats compared to each constituency’s usual partisan lean. If that happens again in Pennsylvania, Democrats will be nipping at Republicans’ heels.


5. The aftermath

Tuesday will likely be the last time you hear about a competitive district in the Pennsylvania 18th, but whoever emerges victorious in the special will likely have to fight hard to keep his seat in the regularly scheduled November 2018 election. How can this be? Earlier this year, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court struck down the state’s current congressional map as too gerrymandered in favor of the GOP; in February, the court imposed new district lines that are friendlier to Democrats. The new map splits most of the current 18th District between the new heavily Republican 14th District and the swingier, suburban 17th District.

If Saccone wins on Tuesday, he has said that he would seek re-election in the 14th, but if Lamb wins, he is expected to go after the 17th, even though he would have to face incumbent Republican Rep. Keith Rothfus there. Of course, the loser could decide to take a second bite of the apple in either the 14th or the 17th as well. After all these long hours of campaigning and millions of dollars spent, it’s entirely possible that, at the beginning of 2019, Conor Lamb and Rick Saccone will both be members of Congress.

Both will also have to decide their next moves almost immediately after the last drink is poured at their election-night watch parties on Tuesday. The deadline to file to run in November is March 20, one week later.


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-pennsylvania-18th-special-election/


What's your prediction for the Pennsylvania election? Great article by the way.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#494 » by cammac » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:21 pm

Pointgod wrote:
cammac wrote:538 has a good article on PA18 race and puts implications in perspective.
1. The partisanship

This seat became vacant in October 2017 after the resignation of GOP Rep. Tim Murphy, who admitted to an extramarital affair and allegedly asked his mistress to have an abortion despite his stated pro-life views. Before the scandal, the Republican had won eight consecutive elections in this district1 by margins of no fewer than 15 percentage points. In both 2014 and 2016, no Democrat even bothered to run against Murphy. President Trump carried the 18th District by nearly 20 points (58 percent to 39 percent); Mitt Romney won it by a similar margin in 2012. According to FiveThirtyEight’s weighted average of presidential results,2 the Pennsylvania 18th is 21 percentage points more Republican-leaning than the nation as a whole.

That’s very red — but so were most of the other places where we’ve seen special elections so far this cycle, and Democrats in the vast majority of those races have consistently done better than the partisan leans of their districts would predict. The margin in federal special elections specifically has moved 16 points toward Democrats compared to each constituency’s usual partisan lean. If that happens again in Pennsylvania, Democrats will be nipping at Republicans’ heels.


5. The aftermath

Tuesday will likely be the last time you hear about a competitive district in the Pennsylvania 18th, but whoever emerges victorious in the special will likely have to fight hard to keep his seat in the regularly scheduled November 2018 election. How can this be? Earlier this year, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court struck down the state’s current congressional map as too gerrymandered in favor of the GOP; in February, the court imposed new district lines that are friendlier to Democrats. The new map splits most of the current 18th District between the new heavily Republican 14th District and the swingier, suburban 17th District.

If Saccone wins on Tuesday, he has said that he would seek re-election in the 14th, but if Lamb wins, he is expected to go after the 17th, even though he would have to face incumbent Republican Rep. Keith Rothfus there. Of course, the loser could decide to take a second bite of the apple in either the 14th or the 17th as well. After all these long hours of campaigning and millions of dollars spent, it’s entirely possible that, at the beginning of 2019, Conor Lamb and Rick Saccone will both be members of Congress.

Both will also have to decide their next moves almost immediately after the last drink is poured at their election-night watch parties on Tuesday. The deadline to file to run in November is March 20, one week later.


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-pennsylvania-18th-special-election/


What's your prediction for the Pennsylvania election? Great article by the way.


Made my prediction a month ago at Lamb by 2% think I might be light on the victory think could well be 5+.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#495 » by Wizardspride » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:25 pm

Wasn't expecting this...

Read on Twitter
?s=20

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#496 » by stilldropin20 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:28 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
stilldropin20 wrote:
BigA wrote:That's an interesting question. The John Edwards - Rielle Hunter business is mentioned in that article, and is a useful precedent. Edwards was acquitted on one count and the jury was hung on several others (the jury votes on the other counts favored acquittal). The key issue was whether Edwards was knowingly violating campaign finance laws when he used donor money to pay off Hunter and cover up the affair, that they had a kid, etc.

So if there's doubt about whether/how much Trump knew about the payment, that might make it tougher to convict. On the other hand, you could argue that Trump has famously carried on all sorts of affairs that have been publicized, and Stormy wouldn't have been paid off if Trump wasn't running (an argument strengthened by the timing of the payment weeks before the election and years after the affair).


ok. a man who took up the call to action. I salute you kind sir!

but before we establish any kind of wrong doing or illegality to any of this we must first even establish if there even was an affair. which is not a crime btw. and at this point. it certainly aint something that will "stick to the teflon trump. Either way, right now both Trump and Stormy... both of them in fact deny the affair. trump's reason is obvious and stormy is under a lawful non disclosure so in theory she cant talk about it or risk being sued for everything she has both current and stands to make in the future. but that NDS may always remain lawful and she may never be able to tell the truth or risk being successfully sued for everything. so if mueller or anyone calls her, she might be better off to continue to deny it.

keep in mind that she (likely?) may be doing the entire thing for publicity and money. I mean she was having sex for as little as $300 per scene not that long before this non disclosure. By "scene" i do mean...er well...you can google it. Also keep in mind that so far nothing has been leaked besides a silly photo that was, like, at a golf outing or something? and she looks more like a blood thirsty fan in that photo vs. someone actually having an affair. still. either way. BOTH deny the affair at this point.



Honestly, I don't really care about this topic but you're wrong about bolded part.

Stormy Daniels has stated she had an affair with Trump....and might have texts/pics/videos to prove it.

Apparently, she's offered to return the money as well.

Read on Twitter


she has not come out directly and admitted to the affair. she is using back channels and the author is taking the liberty of saying it for her (so she doesn't have to). that's how that article is written. it's a technicality. I get it. but that is how the law works. It is a bunch of technicalities that either get some convicted or get someone "off."

"offered to give back the money." :lol: :lol: :lol: so. she wants a redo???? lol. $130K aint shxt for a billionaire. its like me spending $1300.00 . she's an idiot. that affair was worth at least $2 million to her. TMZ would have paid her at least $2 million for texts n photos if she had any. So I'm guessing she doesn't have anything other than her words.

she is better off just doing one final porn where she has someone dress up like Trump and acts out everything they "did." make it a pornady. get some like tina fet to write and alec baldwin to do trump. then do a body double for the actual "porn part."

she could get $5 million for that porn. and if done right it would not violate the non disclosure. if she played her cards right and has any talent at all she could end up hosting SNL.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#497 » by Wizardspride » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:19 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=20.


Read on Twitter
?s=20

Read on Twitter
?s=20

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
User avatar
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#498 » by gtn130 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:21 pm

Read on Twitter
User avatar
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#499 » by TGW » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:31 pm

DCKings--the DOE is far from perfect, but it's necessary. We need to have federal guidelines on the quality of education children receive. Without federal guidelines, you create an even bigger gap between the rich and poor.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIX 

Post#500 » by stilldropin20 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:16 pm

gtn130 wrote:
Read on Twitter



where is her left hand!!! and she is clearly rubbing her [you really can't figure out what words not to use, can you?]
on him!! not right!! not cool!!
like i said, its a full rebuild.

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