Is Wall Top 5 PG?

[Kanyewest]

Only two guards I consider better and not by much than Wall is Curry and Brickbrook. Paul doesn't have any advantages over Wall anymore he used to though. Time is catching up to him.

Nah. Paul is definitely better. His ORtg is 126 for God's sake. The guy is a highly efficient shooter and he never turns the ball over. And he does it all while having the same team spacing issues that Wall has to deal with.

Pauls Offense doesn't put him over Walls Defense which is Elite. As Far as this upcoming season I wouldn't even put any of them over Wall because Wall improved his jump shot over this season.

Wall may have improved his mid range jumper but he was worse from 3 in 2014-2015. Wall was also below average from 3 in the postseason- although he did have a wrist injury which may have derailed him a bit. Compare that to Paul who shot above 40% from 3 point range, better than what Wall shot from the field in the 2014-15 postseason.

True, Wall's defense is elite but as others have said Paul isn't bad in this area- Paul did do enough to slow down Tony Parker and get past the San Antonio Spurs.

[TheBabyMaker]

John Wall is a very good player. But, comparing him to Chris Paul is insulting to Paul who is one of the half dozen best players in the league -- probably the best NBA player pound for pound.

Probably one of the best pound for pound (Paul) never winning anything even with elite talent around him. He has Wall on shooting and handles but his defense is garbage even with a high steal rate (See Arenas, guy can't guard a chair man up). If Wall had high flyers on his team like Blake, D.J. and Iggy he would average 13-14 assist a game. I don't think its (THAT) insulting Paul has won nothing.

Paul isn't even remotely a garbage defender. He's been a perennial All-Defender for the past seven years, coming in 1st five out of seven times. Comparing him to Arenas is a flat-out insult.

I get it you hate Arenas for all the **** he caused his last few years in D.C. But one thing is for sure Arenas never played with anyone like Blake or D.J. he had Michael Ruffin, Etan Thomas and Haywood. 3 allstars (sarcasm) dude had no space to operate and before the knee injury he was still top 5 player in the league (with mediocre talant around him) . I guess I don't get all the Paul hype. Dude hasn't showed me nothing in playoffs. Only thing is insulting is Paul is a probably HOF. 2nd round fodder with great talent around him. And no Paul is not even a average defender at his position.

[TheBabyMaker]

Nah. Paul is definitely better. His ORtg is 126 for God's sake. The guy is a highly efficient shooter and he never turns the ball over. And he does it all while having the same team spacing issues that Wall has to deal with.

Pauls Offense doesn't put him over Walls Defense which is Elite. As Far as this upcoming season I wouldn't even put any of them over Wall because Wall improved his jump shot over this season.

Wall may have improved his mid range jumper but he was worse from 3 in 2014-2015. Wall was also below average from 3 in the postseason- although he did have a wrist injury which may have derailed him a bit. Compare that to Paul who shot above 40% from 3 point range, better than what Wall shot from the field in the 2014-15 postseason.

True, Wall's defense is elite but as others have said Paul isn't bad in this area- Paul did do enough to slow down Tony Parker and get past the San Antonio Spurs.

LOL Paul got by a injury plague Parker. Who did he stop on the Houston team. LOL

[TheSecretWeapon]

Folks are attacking Chris Paul to boost Wall?

Really?

Paul is terrific. Best PG in the game the past few years. One of the best ever. And he really hasn't had "elite" talent around him. Griffin is a very good player, but his hype exceeds his actual on-court production. Jordan is terrific, albeit limited. Redick is a solid SG. That's a good start, but after that the roster is THIN. In my metric, those are the only four on the Clippers last season who rated above average.

[Sluggerface]

Probably one of the best pound for pound (Paul) never winning anything even with elite talent around him. He has Wall on shooting and handles but his defense is garbage even with a high steal rate (See Arenas, guy can't guard a chair man up). If Wall had high flyers on his team like Blake, D.J. and Iggy he would average 13-14 assist a game. I don't think its (THAT) insulting Paul has won nothing.

Paul isn't even remotely a garbage defender. He's been a perennial All-Defender for the past seven years, coming in 1st five out of seven times. Comparing him to Arenas is a flat-out insult.

I get it you hate Arenas for all the **** he caused his last few years in D.C. But one thing is for sure Arenas never played with anyone like Blake or D.J. he had Michael Ruffin, Etan Thomas and Haywood. 3 allstars (sarcasm) dude had no space to operate and before the knee injury he was still top 5 player in the league (with mediocre talant around him) . I guess I don't get all the Paul hype. Dude hasn't showed me nothing in playoffs. Only thing is insulting is Paul is a probably HOF. 2nd round fodder with great talent around him. And no Paul is not even a average defender at his position.

Wow, I don't know how you pull me being an Arenas hater out of that. If anything, I'll argue with anyone over Arena's impact on the game all the way to the moon, but he was a pretty bad defender. Chris Paul is not.

"And no Paul is not even a average defender at his position"

You LITERALLY have no basis for this.





Even beyond stats and player tracking, Coaches and people that know the game universally agree that Paul is an All-NBA defender. He stays on his man like glue, doesn't care if his ankles get broken, and he fights through picks better than any guard in the league.

You're pulling this assumption completely out of your ass.

[Higga]

I think when it comes to the Wall-Paul debate one factor that the Wall people(myself incl.)factor in is that Wall is only going to get better, he's just entering his prime(actually his real physical prime might not be for a couple more years)while Paul is likely to decline soon.

[Hidden Eye]

Nah. Paul is definitely better. His ORtg is 126 for God's sake. The guy is a highly efficient shooter and he never turns the ball over. And he does it all while having the same team spacing issues that Wall has to deal with.

Pauls Offense doesn't put him over Walls Defense which is Elite. As Far as this upcoming season I wouldn't even put any of them over Wall because Wall improved his jump shot over this season.

Wall may have improved his mid range jumper but he was worse from 3 in 2014-2015. Wall was also below average from 3 in the postseason- although he did have a wrist injury which may have derailed him a bit. Compare that to Paul who shot above 40% from 3 point range, better than what Wall shot from the field in the 2014-15 postseason.

True, Wall's defense is elite but as others have said Paul isn't bad in this area- Paul did do enough to slow down Tony Parker and get past the San Antonio Spurs.

I'm not trying to downplay Paul but if you switch Wall in playoffs last year he would Demolish Spurs and Rockets. Shooting is the only thing that sets them apart that's the big difference but Wall is beast on defense. Paul is getting older.

[Kanyewest]

Pauls Offense doesn't put him over Walls Defense which is Elite. As Far as this upcoming season I wouldn't even put any of them over Wall because Wall improved his jump shot over this season.

Wall may have improved his mid range jumper but he was worse from 3 in 2014-2015. Wall was also below average from 3 in the postseason- although he did have a wrist injury which may have derailed him a bit. Compare that to Paul who shot above 40% from 3 point range, better than what Wall shot from the field in the 2014-15 postseason.

True, Wall's defense is elite but as others have said Paul isn't bad in this area- Paul did do enough to slow down Tony Parker and get past the San Antonio Spurs.

I'm not trying to downplay Paul but if you switch Wall in playoffs last year he would Demolish Spurs and Rockets. Shooting is the only thing that sets them apart that's the big difference but Wall is beast on defense. Paul is getting older.

Given that Paul's 3 point percentage was greater than Wall field goal percentage in the postseason, Wall still has a lot to prove. Hopefully, Wall can raise his 3 point percentage (which declined from 35% to 30%). I agree that Paul is getting older but then again he is still playing at a high level.


After watching CP3 in game 7, I don't think the Clippers beat the Spurs with Wall IMO.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WSm1upEx5Q[/youtube]

[payitforward]

I think when it comes to the Wall-Paul debate one factor that the Wall people(myself incl.)factor in is that Wall is only going to get better, he's just entering his prime(actually his real physical prime might not be for a couple more years)while Paul is likely to decline soon.

What has that got to do with anything? Wilt Chamberlain is dead. Does that mean that Nerlens Noel, who "is only going to get better" and can definitely outplay Wilt right now -- means he's the better player?

Not that Wall outplays Paul right now -- because he doesn't. He isn't even all that close.

You don't make John Wall a better player by underrating another player!

[Higga]

I think when it comes to the Wall-Paul debate one factor that the Wall people(myself incl.)factor in is that Wall is only going to get better, he's just entering his prime(actually his real physical prime might not be for a couple more years)while Paul is likely to decline soon.

What has that got to do with anything? Wilt Chamberlain is dead. Does that mean that Nerlens Noel, who "is only going to get better" and can definitely outplay Wilt right now -- means he's the better player?

Not that Wall outplays Paul right now -- because he doesn't. He isn't even all that close.

You don't make John Wall a better player by underrating another player!

I'm talking about in the sense of guys you'd rather have moving forward.

Wall will be a factor in the league for the next decade.

In a life or death one game scenario yeah I might take CP3 over Wall, but anything else I'm taking Wall.

Hell Wall could surpass CP3 this year for sure. He's only going to get better over time.

[payitforward]

I think when it comes to the Wall-Paul debate one factor that the Wall people(myself incl.)factor in is that Wall is only going to get better, he's just entering his prime(actually his real physical prime might not be for a couple more years)while Paul is likely to decline soon.

What has that got to do with anything? Wilt Chamberlain is dead. Does that mean that Nerlens Noel, who "is only going to get better" and can definitely outplay Wilt right now -- means he's the better player?

Not that Wall outplays Paul right now -- because he doesn't. He isn't even all that close.

You don't make John Wall a better player by underrating another player!

I'm talking about in the sense of guys you'd rather have moving forward.

Wall will be a factor in the league for the next decade.

In a life or death one game scenario yeah I might take CP3 over Wall, but anything else I'm taking Wall.

Hell Wall could surpass CP3 this year for sure. He's only going to get better over time.

So what you're saying is Chris Paul is better than John Wall. Gotta win a game, give me Chris Paul. That's analysis, Higga, and it is correct.

And you're also saying John Wall is younger than Chris Paul. Why yes! You are right, he is! But that's not analysis; everybody knows that.

[tontoz]

Paul had Barnes starting at the 3 and Redick at the 2. Redick is ok but that's all. Both guys would be coming off the bench for most teams, including us.

Speaking of the bench Paul didn't get much help there either. His supporting cast was not strong at all, especially relative to the other top teams in the west.

[payitforward]

...Hell Wall could surpass CP3 this year for sure. He's only going to get better over time.

Well, I suppose anything "could" happen. Is that what you mean?

But I wouldn't say it's likely that John Wall will "surpass" Chris Paul this year. Or the next. Or any of the following years.

Lets put it this way: in 2005, as a 20 year old rookie, Chris Paul played better than John Wall has ever played in any of his first 5 seasons. Since then, Chris Paul has gotten much much better than he was as a rookie. The last 8 years, he's played at a level that I speculate is higher over such an extended period than any NBA point guard in the history of the league.

John Wall is an extremely good point guard -- no doubt of it. And he's improved each of the last couple of years, so there's hope that he'll continue to improve. Chris Paul is the wrong guy to compare him to, however. It makes him look bad.

[TheBabyMaker]

Sounds like a lot of Cris Paul nuthuggers around here. Wake me up when he wins something. He went just as far as Wall in the playoffs, with better talent around him. Question how much better would the Wizards be, if Paul was here instead of Wall.??? Would they beat Lebron James. ????

Sluggerface, those charts don't mean crap to me when comes down to winning just about anything. I don't have most time to post here more less try to figure that crap out.

[nate33]

Sounds like a lot of Cris Paul nuthuggers around here. Wake me up when he wins something. He went just as far as Wall in the playoffs, with better talent around him. Question how much better would the Wizards be, if Paul was here instead of Wall.??? Would they beat Lebron James. ????

Sluggerface, those charts don't mean crap to me when comes down to winning just about anything. I don't have most time to post here more less try to figure that crap out.

C'mon son. Surely you understand that the Clippers beating San Antonio and then succumbing to injuries against the Rockets was a much better showing than Washington defeating the hapless Raptors and then losing to Atlanta.

If the Wizards had Chris Paul, I'm pretty confident they would have beaten Atlanta. I doubt they would have beaten Cleveland though.

You just gotta dial back the John Wall homerism. Wall is really good and I'm thrilled that he's on our team. But he's not as good as Paul. If you're asking who I would want for the future, then I'd take Wall because of his age. But if you're asking who is better now, there's no debate. Paul is clearly the better player. That's not an insult to Wall. Paul has a real argument for being the best PG of all time after Magic (and Oscar, if you count him). His numbers are that good.

[payitforward]

Sounds like a lot of Cris Paul nuthuggers around here. Wake me up when he wins something. He went just as far as Wall in the playoffs, with better talent around him. Question how much better would the Wizards be, if Paul was here instead of Wall.??? Would they beat Lebron James. ????

Sluggerface, those charts don't mean crap to me when comes down to winning just about anything. I don't have most time to post here more less try to figure that crap out.

C'mon son. Surely you understand that the Clippers beating San Antonio and then succumbing to injuries against the Rockets was a much better showing than Washington defeating the hapless Raptors and then losing to Atlanta.

If the Wizards had Chris Paul, I'm pretty confident they would have beaten Atlanta. I doubt they would have beaten Cleveland though.

You just gotta dial back the John Wall homerism. Wall is really good and I'm thrilled that he's on our team. But he's not as good as Paul. If you're asking who I would want for the future, then I'd take Wall because of his age. But if you're asking who is better now, there's no debate. Paul is clearly the better player. That's not an insult to Wall. Paul has a real argument for being the best PG of all time after Magic (and Oscar, if you count him). His numbers are that good.

This is the key point. In order to vaunt John Wall at the expense of Chris Paul, you have to be willing to claim that Wall is among the top few point guards of all time. And that is just silly.

[Sluggerface]

Sluggerface, those charts don't mean crap to me when comes down to winning just about anything. I don't have most time to post here more less try to figure that crap out.

Are you for real right now? The freaking charts are self explanatory.

Small dots = opponents shoot at low volume.
Big dots = opponents shoot at high volume.

If they're blue it means opponents shoot at low efficiency. If they're red it means opponents shoot at high efficiency.

[BarnabyJones]

Paul has a real argument for being the best PG of all time after Magic (and Oscar, if you count him).

over Isiah and Stockton??

No.

[nate33]

Paul has a real argument for being the best PG of all time after Magic (and Oscar, if you count him).

over Isiah and Stockton??

No.

Go look at the numbers. Peak Paul beats Peak Stockton in all the advanced metrics - PER, WS/48, VORP. He assists a little less and scores a lot more. He has won more MVP consideration as well. If you want to give Stockton credit for his longevity, fine. I like Stockton a ton too. But it's definitely arguable that Paul surpasses Stockton.

I don't want to get sidetracked on an Isiah Thomas debate, but suffice to say I think Thomas is overrated and was never really that good. I place him firmly behind Stockton, Nash and Paul and I'm not sure he is even better than guys like Payton, Kidd, KJ and Billups.

[tontoz]

Paul has a real argument for being the best PG of all time after Magic (and Oscar, if you count him).

over Isiah and Stockton??

No.

Go look at the numbers. Peak Paul beats Peak Stockton in all the advanced metrics - PER, WS/48, VORP. He assists a little less and scores a lot more. He has won more MVP consideration as well. If you want to give Stockton credit for his longevity, fine. I like Stockton a ton too. But it's definitely arguable that Paul surpasses Stockton.

I don't want to get sidetracked on an Isiah Thomas debate, but suffice to say I think Thomas is overrated and was never really that good. I place him firmly behind Stockton, Nash and Paul and I'm not sure he is even better than guys like Payton, Kidd, KJ and Billups.

Agreed. Isiah got way more credit than he deserved during their title years. His scoring efficiency was weak and he wasn't the most intense defender.

That team was crazy deep.