General (Non-Wiz) Draft Discussion

[doclinkin]

Damn, now that's a sudden transformation. Check out the lean, cut version of DJ Blair. He's only lost 15 pounds he says, but that spare tire gut has morphed into a cartoon bulldog waist and upper torso muscle stack.

Vid here.

I dunno, maybe it hurts him, higher center of gravity and all that. Still, shows responsiveness to workouts, always a good sign for long-term strength development. His face has even changed--but really check the 1:20 mark. Looks like a totally different player. Whether or not that's a good thing remains to be seen.

[doclinkin]

Griffin was pretty open about his biggest perceived weakness: his lack of defense at Oklahoma.

"I was on a team where I couldn't get in foul trouble," Griffin said. "Coach [Jeff] Capel was pretty clear that I needed to be on the floor. So I was always conscious, maybe too conscious, about picking up fouls.

"I definitely [think] that it's an area of my game that needs improvement. But I feel like I'm going to be a good defender in the NBA. I like to play defense."

From Chad Ford's peek into his workout.

um... there's nothing foul-prone about staying in front of a guy and playing defense with your arms reaching for the ceiling. there are absolutely 0 NBA-quality PF in the big 12. in fact, there are few NBA-quality PF in college that Blake had to go against in college. I''m not doubting that blake embraces defense, but i mean... he doesn't know what defending top-flight PF really means. When he checks the David Wests and Rashard Lewises of the league, he'll find himself in one world of hurt. When he D's up the Tim Duncans and the Elton Brand's of the league he'll find himself in another.

Uh, yes there is. DRE calculation suggests 80% of all fouls are committed on the defensive end. Blocking fouls, hacking, etc. Even giving a deliberate hard foul to send a message or prevent a key baslet. If his coach tells him --'look we need your scoring and rebounding out there, don't foul'-- the first place he'd likely relax is defensively.

And it's not like most of the time the strategy was hurting the team, he more than made up for the deficiency, the squad won a ton of games on the strength of his other strengths (namely his strength, etc-- if you don't mind the repetitive superfluous redundancy).

That said he grew up playing against his bro Taylor, who was a solid defender for that squad, dad was a coach-- he's seen defense, knows it. The amount of hard contact this kid took, you don't think it would be liberating for him to be able to uncork a 'playoff foul' on the other end? My concern is that with his size he may be foul prone starting out the gate. He clearly loves the contact, likes to power through defenses at one end, if he's allowed to finally put a body on somebody and lean into it he may land a few flagrants or foul outs early on once he has somebody backing him up (or starting ahead of him). In that case, I'd love to see the dread when he shucks his warm-ups and walks on over to the chalk bag -- aw crap, somebody's getting hit again...

Here? I'd worry he might hurt somebody in practice. But you know, that's a worry we'd happily work with. And un-fluid? I haven't seen a big guy with the same mid-air body control that he has. No, he'll be fine here. Would or will. We'd be happy.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Damn, now that's a sudden transformation. Check out the lean, cut version of DJ Blair. He's only lost 15 pounds he says, but that spare tire gut has morphed into a cartoon bulldog waist and upper torso muscle stack.

Vid here.

I dunno, maybe it hurts him, higher center of gravity and all that. Still, shows responsiveness to workouts, always a good sign for long-term strength development. His face has even changed--but really check the 1:20 mark. Looks like a totally different player. Whether or not that's a good thing remains to be seen.

That's too sudden of a weight loss. It will be unhealthy in the long run because I bet he gains it all back plus some.

I also think it won't help his game.

Now if it attracts the tape measure droolers and gets him drafted higher, great. But personally, I liked him better fat.

[pancakes3]

well, no dip that fouls are being committed mostly on defense. I'm saying that it's a weak excuse to not put forth your best on defense because of fear of foul trouble (plus at lebron-esque 2.5 fouls/game i don't think he was ever much at risk for foul trouble). if he's in position and doesn't shuffle his feet and keeps his arms straight up instead of reaching for blocks (obviously not chasing down blocks) and compound that with the "star player" factor, there's no reason that griffin should even be worrying about foul trouble. the criticisms come when he looks lackadaisical at times defensively and the lack of blocks given his physical talents. conventional wisdom says that if someone can pull down 10 defensive boards a game, he/she can put up more than 1.2 blocks a game.

it may be nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking, but i just found that statement of foul trouble albeit out of context, kind of silly. none of these points would make me not draft him #1 overall but still bears mentioning especially on an online forum.

[go'stags]

Blair always stuck me as a "natrually" stong guy, from the same mold as Artest. I dont think it had to dowith his beer belly. I dont have any copncerns about nhim being pushed around-I bet his legs are still tree trunks. Can you imagine him playing soft? Me niether.

Where this does help him is in his quickness, to make sure he can stay in front of his man, and conditioning, which will allow him to be a beast the entire time he is on the court. And both of those traits will help him avoid foul trouble, which was a cause of concern for a lot of people.

Plus, he just seemed confident. He had the attitude like he knew he was gunna be a beast, people just have to wait andf see.

I really like Dejuan Blair now, even moreso than before.I bet you he develops that jumper into a rock solid one too. I would not be upset at all if we landed him.

[doclinkin]

well, no dip that fouls are being committed mostly on defense. I'm saying that it's a weak excuse to not put forth your best on defense because of fear of foul trouble (plus at lebron-esque 2.5 fouls/game i don't think he was ever much at risk for foul trouble). if he's in position and doesn't shuffle his feet and keeps his arms straight up instead of reaching for blocks (obviously not chasing down blocks) and compound that with the "star player" factor, there's no reason that griffin should even be worrying about foul trouble. the criticisms come when he looks lackadaisical at times defensively and the lack of blocks given his physical talents. conventional wisdom says that if someone can pull down 10 defensive boards a game, he/she can put up more than 1.2 blocks a game.

it may be nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking, but i just found that statement of foul trouble albeit out of context, kind of silly. none of these points would make me not draft him #1 overall but still bears mentioning especially on an online forum.

Yeah it's misdirected nitpickery IMO. The point was that here was a player who put forth max effort in all aspects of his game except one. Who would dive into the chairs in practice going for a rebound, but in games would actively stay out of the way on defense. Anyone who was interested wanted to know why that might be.

Here he provided an explanation. Confirming suspicions.

I suppose you think it's impossible that he'll improve on defense, that he's just lazy or uninterested in that regard, or perhaps stupid. Or more charitably that he cared more for padding his rebound stats than causing a miss in the first place. Maybe. I don't see it. He seems like a pretty straightforward guy, and the comment matches answers I've heard Jeff Capel give about keeping Blake on the floor at all costs. If he says he was deliberately passive on defense in order to stay on the floor, seems plausible to me. And it's a positive sign to hear him say that's something he wants to take pride in, that he loves to play D and expects to turn up the intensity there as well.

Personally I didn't see him getting many benefit-of-the-doubt type calls in any respect. Actually most often you'd see him getting the Shaq treatment: hacked and banged and brutalized but refs ignored it because he was stoic about it, never complained. Could be at the next level he can feel free to unleash a bit because the competition can handle it, guys won't go flying out fo the lane with a little nudge and he won't collect stupid fouls that way.

That said. I suspect despite his ups and muscles he won't be a dominant shotblocker. He'll measure with an average standing reach, not crazy long arms. Having to jump to swat shots leaves you vulnerable to the pump fake-- embarrassing and you collect a foul, both. I do expect defensive positioning to improve, and his foul rate to go up. If he landed here though that's fine, we have other options at the 4 and can afford to let him learn how to defend and stay on the floor. He's not gonna get shoved off his position.

One habit that will probably have to change at the NBA level: he gets too deep under the basket and will have to box out better instead of relying primarily on muscle and bounce to go get the ricochet. Refs will call him for loose ball fouls if he jumps through a guy to get a ball and at this level there are a few guys who he can't simply leap over.

I still want Zo here as a Bigs coach/ weight room trainer. MOst especially if we land Blake.

[fishercob]

Damn, now that's a sudden transformation. Check out the lean, cut version of DJ Blair. He's only lost 15 pounds he says, but that spare tire gut has morphed into a cartoon bulldog waist and upper torso muscle stack.

Vid here.

I dunno, maybe it hurts him, higher center of gravity and all that. Still, shows responsiveness to workouts, always a good sign for long-term strength development. His face has even changed--but really check the 1:20 mark. Looks like a totally different player. Whether or not that's a good thing remains to be seen.

That's too sudden of a weight loss. It will be unhealthy in the long run because I bet he gains it all back plus some.

I also think it won't help his game.

Now if it attracts the tape measure droolers and gets him drafted higher, great. But personally, I liked him better fat.

I disagree, my brother CCJ. If being a tub was what made him effective in college, I don't think he'd be a very good pro anyway. The weight loss takes stress off those surgically repaired knees. He hasn't shortened his arms or hurt his phenomenal motor at all. If anything, this is a sign of that insatiable determination that you've liked for so long. Don't jump ship now!

I have to think this pushes him up into the mid to late lottery at worst -- and as we've said, he'd be a nice consolation prize in a trade down scenario if we pick 3-5.

His demeanor reminded me of Antawn in the interview. I gotta say, I wouldn't mind having a couple of picks in this "historically weak" draft.

[closg00]

Interesting, looking over the draft workout schedule, Dionte Christmas has more workouts scheduled than any other player so-far.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dio ... tmas-1234/

[pancakes3]

I suppose you think it's impossible that he'll improve on defense, that he's just lazy or uninterested in that regard, or perhaps stupid. Or more charitably that he cared more for padding his rebound stats than causing a miss in the first place. Maybe. I don't see it. He seems like a pretty straightforward guy, and the comment matches answers I've heard Jeff Capel give about keeping Blake on the floor at all costs. If he says he was deliberately passive on defense in order to stay on the floor, seems plausible to me. And it's a positive sign to hear him say that's something he wants to take pride in, that he loves to play D and expects to turn up the intensity there as well.

alonzo does have a similar body type and there are worse players you can pick to to emulate.

however, i just find it weird to say the least that this balls-out maniac allowed himself to play passive defense. diving into the stands for a loose ball? i'd rather chance a foul than a freak injury. my question is... how was he able to control his passion in the heat of the moment especially since he plays at such a higher level of passion than your average player? it takes a lot of willpower to go against every natural instinct to play defense especially basketball is such a quick game that it's completely dependent on natural instinct. I guess what i'm saying is that i'm taking griffin's self-declared passion for defense with a grain of salt. i'm adopting the Mizzou stance - the show me state.

[Pollinator]

Looks like Rubio banged up his hip a little bit last night trying to defend Sergio Llull, if I understand the Spanish he got an MRI that showed a little strain in the joint capsule of his right hip, but nothing really bad. Sounds like one of those will miss one game, then day-to-day kind of things. For those of you who read espanol here's the link:

http://www.acb.com/redaccion.php?id=57815

There's also a link to a video which shows the play in gory detail- looks like he got faked out a midcourt and lost his balance and his hip kind of gave way laterally. Doesn't look too bad... probably will not change the draft at all.

[Rafael122]

Yes, he had an MRI and he has a strained right hip. You got it. At the end it says it hurts to walk but he'll see how he feels in a couple of days.

[doclinkin]

Scottie Reynolds and Lester Quad-double Hudson to work out today at 11AM.

Scottie Reynolds G Villanova Herndon, VA 6’2”, 190 lbs.

Jerel McNeal G Marquette Chicago, IL 6’3”, 200 lbs.

Lester Hudson G Tennessee-Martin Memphis, TN 6’3”, 190 lbs.

Mike Rose G Eastern Kentucky Naperville, IL 6’3”, 195 lbs.

According to wiz official blog. Link.

[closg00]

Scottie Reynolds and Lester Quad-double Hudson to work out today at 11AM.

Scottie Reynolds G Villanova Herndon, VA 6’2”, 190 lbs.

Jerel McNeal G Marquette Chicago, IL 6’3”, 200 lbs.

Lester Hudson G Tennessee-Martin Memphis, TN 6’3”, 190 lbs.

Mike Rose G Eastern Kentucky Naperville, IL 6’3”, 195 lbs.

According to wiz official blog. Link.

If we get either Griffin or Thabeet 1st, Lester should be there to take with our high 2nd pick. Too-bad we'll have to sell him-off because we don't have a slot. He didn't do-well in workouts last year, but I bet you he can ball in-games.

[doclinkin]

Mike Rose shot 48% from three on 200+ attempts last year. Damn, Mike. Not too bad brother.

[doclinkin]

Nick Calathes interview at DX.

Link.

No earthshattering revelations. He's working with/against Jrue Holliday, Earl Clark, DJ Blair. Pretty good group to train with, nice mix of strengths and styles to tune up your game for the workout tour.

[closg00]

Now you know that Cavs really hate us, they worked-out Greivis Vasquez on Saturday.

[Dat2U]

I read that Chad Ford article on Harden and like I said way back, he reminds me of Brandon Roy. I know people down him for his stinker in the tourny but come on, he was doubled and tripled all the time.

He has that "sneaky athleticism" Ford says, which i agree with and has said to have lost 10 - 15 pounds and its evident in workouts.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009 ... our-090515

Meh, In the world of Chad Ford everyone is a potential stud with skills never seen before and intangibles that are off the charts. He's the same man that hyped up Nikoloz Tshkitishvilli as a superstar and franchice player. Every player Ford has reviewed thus far in this year's lottery gets a glowing scouting report. Listening only to Ford, one may think this is the strongest draft in NBA history! I even take the scouting report on Blake Griffin with a grain of salt.

As for Harden, losing weight doesn't mean he'll no longer be slow of foot or that role player mentality will change. To me losing weight and toning up his body just means he's gotta chance at being a better role player on the next level.

I hate the Brandon Roy comparisons b/c Roy is just a more versatile and explosive player. Roy had PG skills and excelled at creating off the dribble. Roy was also an underrated athlete because he had no wasted motion. In actuality, Roy was and is a very good athlete and displayed above average athleticism for his position. Harden on the other hand struggled mightly at times to create shots or to get free to receive the ball. He used everything in his bag of tricks to create opportunities to score. And this was at the Pac-10 level! On the NBA level, even if he's in great shape, he'll struggle mightly against athletic players.

I still view Harden as a guy worthy of a late lottery pick and in most drafts, he'd be a mid-to-late 1st round selection.

[Rafael122]

OK, is it too early to put in stock on the draft workouts? Ernie's basically working out shooting guards/small forwards. I'm thinking thats where they are going to go.

[AgentOvechkin08]

The workouts really mean nothing. We did not work out McGee once and we got him so there ya go

[pancakes3]

not exactly a shocker. 1st and 2nd overall are locked in. We've been openly shopping 3-5. If we're trading the 3-5, we should be looking to improve the 2-guard position - a big 2 guard that can play defense and shoot from outside. 135 pages of draft thread and we've finally hashed it out on the eve of the lottery.