Deni Avdija - Part II

[prime1time]

Wow, I wasn't paying attention when this post was made after the first game. It isn't aging very well.

"Barring major improvement." I'd say a jump in fg%, 3p% and career highs in points, assists and rebounds would qualify as major improvement. It's actually hilarious that you quoted this.

So you actually think he will get another contract now?

I can't recall a post that backfired so quickly and spectacularly.

At the time I was surprised. If this is the best you got, you should do better research. At the time I said I like the Bertans resigning. That was way worse than this lmao. This just shows the fundamental difference between me and most posters. Like I said when I made my comment. The Wizards will suck with Avdija and the Wizards will suck without Avdija. Now if Avdija led us to a winning record or the playoffs then you'd could really flame me lol. The real tragedy is that we're talking about Avdija at all and we're not talking about the player we past up on to get him. I wonder if prime1time had an opinion on that...

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2015127&p=86357628&hilit=Haliburton#p86357628

I really like Haliburton. I'm not against packaging Brown Jr. to trade up for Haliburton...
6'5, 7'0 wingspan. Great shooter. This is an easy pick for the Kings.

Wow, what do you know. This is a take that actually matters. Resigning Avdija, not so much. But like I said, I get stuff wrong all the time. I have no problem admitting it. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[tontoz]

I have a lot of bad takes lol. But saying that Avdija needed "major improvement" was not one of them. Obviously, as fans all we can see is what happens on game day. The Wiz management has knows what his day to day habits are. How much he practices and works on his game etc. I'm still surprised that we gave him that contract when we did but, as I said at the time. We are terrible so it's not like the other alternative was that important.

I'd also point out that Hachimura just set career highs in fg% and 3p%. Just shows the hypocrisy of some posters when they try to call me out for my clearly accurate Deni take. Yet ignore how right I was when I said that Rui was good player.

Clearly accurate? You buried him after one game this season and he proceeded to have a breakout year lmao. You do realize that young players tend to improve, right? Beal didn't average over 18 ppg until year 5.

Resigning Deni prior to the season is one of the best moves mgt has made in years. If we hadn't resigned him he might command double what he signed for.

What did you think of Rui's performance against Denver in the playoffs this year? Funny that the Lakers played him off the bench behind Prince for much of the season. Prince has been a bench player for years.

[prime1time]

I have a lot of bad takes lol. But saying that Avdija needed "major improvement" was not one of them. Obviously, as fans all we can see is what happens on game day. The Wiz management has knows what his day to day habits are. How much he practices and works on his game etc. I'm still surprised that we gave him that contract when we did but, as I said at the time. We are terrible so it's not like the other alternative was that important.

I'd also point out that Hachimura just set career highs in fg% and 3p%. Just shows the hypocrisy of some posters when they try to call me out for my clearly accurate Deni take. Yet ignore how right I was when I said that Rui was good player.

Clearly accurate? You buried him after one game this season and he proceeded to have a breakout year lmao. You do realize that young players tend to improve, right? Beal didn't average over 18 ppg until year 5.

Resigning Deni prior to the season is one of the best moves mgt has made in years. If we hadn't resigned him he might command double what he signed for.

What did you think of Rui's performance against Denver in the playoffs this year? Funny that the Lakers played him off the bench behind Prince for much of the season. Prince has been a bench player for years.

Where did I bury him lol. I said he needed to improve. And it's true. Go back to Troy Brown Jr's threads. I said the same thing. Troy Brown Jr. needs to improve or things don't bode well. Tbh, if I had to choose between being right and the Wizards winning, I'd rather be wrong. I'm happy Avdija turned it around. It's puts us in a better position going forward. But you can't expect me to take an L when I clearly scored a W. Attack me with my thoughts on the Bertans deal lol.

[tontoz]

I have a lot of bad takes lol. But saying that Avdija needed "major improvement" was not one of them. Obviously, as fans all we can see is what happens on game day. The Wiz management has knows what his day to day habits are. How much he practices and works on his game etc. I'm still surprised that we gave him that contract when we did but, as I said at the time. We are terrible so it's not like the other alternative was that important.

I'd also point out that Hachimura just set career highs in fg% and 3p%. Just shows the hypocrisy of some posters when they try to call me out for my clearly accurate Deni take. Yet ignore how right I was when I said that Rui was good player.

Clearly accurate? You buried him after one game this season and he proceeded to have a breakout year lmao. You do realize that young players tend to improve, right? Beal didn't average over 18 ppg until year 5.

Resigning Deni prior to the season is one of the best moves mgt has made in years. If we hadn't resigned him he might command double what he signed for.

What did you think of Rui's performance against Denver in the playoffs this year? Funny that the Lakers played him off the bench behind Prince for much of the season. Prince has been a bench player for years.

Where did I bury him lol. I said he needed to improve. And it's true. Go back to Troy Brown Jr's threads. I said the same thing. Troy Brown Jr. needs to improve or things don't bode well. Tbh, if I had to choose between being right and the Wizards winning, I'd rather be wrong. I'm happy Avdija turned it around. It's puts us in a better position going forward. But you can't expect me to take an L when I clearly scored a W. Attack me with my thoughts on the Bertans deal lol.

You didn't say he needed to improve to be a good player, you said he needed major improvement or he might not get another contract. That was nonsense.

[payitforward]

Overstatement -- positive & negative -- is the fan's disease.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

I have a lot of bad takes lol. But saying that Avdija needed "major improvement" was not one of them. Obviously, as fans all we can see is what happens on game day. The Wiz management has knows what his day to day habits are. How much he practices and works on his game etc. I'm still surprised that we gave him that contract when we did but, as I said at the time. We are terrible so it's not like the other alternative was that important.

I'd also point out that Hachimura just set career highs in fg% and 3p%. Just shows the hypocrisy of some posters when they try to call me out for my clearly accurate Deni take. Yet ignore how right I was when I said that Rui was good player.

Rui is not a good player. Still the exact same dude who was able to up his percentage playing as a fifth or sixth option on a team that had players that draw a lot of attention. He stinks at rebounding, doesn't pass, doesn't really draw fouls, stinks on defense, misses a ton of game, questionable bball IQ.

Stop kidding yourself. I know it's hard to walk back from, "There's really no comparison between him and a guy like Hachimura."

Thou shall taketh the L.

[prime1time]

I have a lot of bad takes lol. But saying that Avdija needed "major improvement" was not one of them. Obviously, as fans all we can see is what happens on game day. The Wiz management has knows what his day to day habits are. How much he practices and works on his game etc. I'm still surprised that we gave him that contract when we did but, as I said at the time. We are terrible so it's not like the other alternative was that important.

I'd also point out that Hachimura just set career highs in fg% and 3p%. Just shows the hypocrisy of some posters when they try to call me out for my clearly accurate Deni take. Yet ignore how right I was when I said that Rui was good player.

Rui is not a good player. Still the exact same dude who was able to up his percentage playing as a fifth or sixth option on a team that had players that draw a lot of attention. He stinks at rebounding, doesn't pass, doesn't really draw fouls, stinks on defense, misses a ton of game, questionable bball IQ.

Stop kidding yourself. I know it's hard to walk back from, "There's really no comparison between him and a guy like Hachimura."

Thou shall taketh the L.

Take a breath, relax and completely re-evaluate how you look at basketball lol.

[TGW]

I have a lot of bad takes lol. But saying that Avdija needed "major improvement" was not one of them. Obviously, as fans all we can see is what happens on game day. The Wiz management has knows what his day to day habits are. How much he practices and works on his game etc. I'm still surprised that we gave him that contract when we did but, as I said at the time. We are terrible so it's not like the other alternative was that important.

I'd also point out that Hachimura just set career highs in fg% and 3p%. Just shows the hypocrisy of some posters when they try to call me out for my clearly accurate Deni take. Yet ignore how right I was when I said that Rui was good player.

Rui is not a good player. Still the exact same dude who was able to up his percentage playing as a fifth or sixth option on a team that had players that draw a lot of attention. He stinks at rebounding, doesn't pass, doesn't really draw fouls, stinks on defense, misses a ton of game, questionable bball IQ.

Stop kidding yourself. I know it's hard to walk back from, "There's really no comparison between him and a guy like Hachimura."

Thou shall taketh the L.

Take a breath, relax and completely re-evaluate how you look at basketball lol.

Tontoz and COSC are 100% right. Your take was awful and Rui is not a good basketball player.

[nate33]

Rui is not a good player. Still the exact same dude who was able to up his percentage playing as a fifth or sixth option on a team that had players that draw a lot of attention. He stinks at rebounding, doesn't pass, doesn't really draw fouls, stinks on defense, misses a ton of game, questionable bball IQ.

Stop kidding yourself. I know it's hard to walk back from, "There's really no comparison between him and a guy like Hachimura."

Thou shall taketh the L.

Take a breath, relax and completely re-evaluate how you look at basketball lol.

Tontoz and COSC are 100% right. Your take was awful and Rui is not a good basketball player.

Relevant to the discussion:

Read on Twitter

Although to be fair, Evan Sidery is pretty aggressive with his interpretations of "insider reports" on trades.

[2Fluffy4U]

Take a breath, relax and completely re-evaluate how you look at basketball lol.

Tontoz and COSC are 100% right. Your take was awful and Rui is not a good basketball player.

Relevant to the discussion:

Read on Twitter

Although to be fair, Evan Sidery is pretty aggressive with his interpretations of "insider reports" on trades.

Accroding to the following article - Rui was considered a very good and fit for the team in the regular season albeit inconsistent, but then he has been 'exposed' and lost a lot of value due to his playoffs performance. I think it is okay of we do call and see him as a good player (and still developing player). I am not sure we can compare him Apples to Apples with Deni yet as Deni have yet to experience post-season pressures... (And Deni did somewhat struggle to thrive in a team with alleged 'stars').

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2024/5/28/24164551/lakers-rui-hachimura-season-review-player-recap-starting-lineup-lebron-james

[payitforward]

"Barring major improvement." I'd say a jump in fg%, 3p% and career highs in points, assists and rebounds would qualify as major improvement. It's actually hilarious that you quoted this.

So you actually think he will get another contract now?

I can't recall a post that backfired so quickly and spectacularly.

At the time I was surprised. If this is the best you got, you should do better research. At the time I said I like the Bertans resigning. That was way worse than this lmao. This just shows the fundamental difference between me and most posters. Like I said when I made my comment. The Wizards will suck with Avdija and the Wizards will suck without Avdija. Now if Avdija led us to a winning record or the playoffs then you'd could really flame me lol. The real tragedy is that we're talking about Avdija at all and we're not talking about the player we past up on to get him. I wonder if prime1time had an opinion on that...

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2015127&p=86357628&hilit=Haliburton#p86357628

I really like Haliburton. I'm not against packaging Brown Jr. to trade up for Haliburton...
6'5, 7'0 wingspan. Great shooter. This is an easy pick for the Kings.

Wow, what do you know. This is a take that actually matters. Resigning Avdija, not so much. But like I said, I get stuff wrong all the time. I have no problem admitting it. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

Ok... the two of you have me laughing out loud!

Everybody is right sometimes. Everybody is wrong sometimes. Lots of times. Both ways. It's even possible to both right & wrong in the same statement!

I predicted a dismal outcome for Rui Hachimura. He's become a pretty good player.
Zards loved the pick of Johnny Davis.
Dat2U is usually a deep draft thinker, yet mid R1 of 2021 he called for us to pick a guy who still hasn't played in the league.

Only tleikheen is always right ...

Spoiler:

...along with "Hands" of ancient memory of course...! )

[arusinov]

So you actually think he will get another contract now?

I can't recall a post that backfired so quickly and spectacularly.

At the time I was surprised. If this is the best you got, you should do better research. At the time I said I like the Bertans resigning. That was way worse than this lmao. This just shows the fundamental difference between me and most posters. Like I said when I made my comment. The Wizards will suck with Avdija and the Wizards will suck without Avdija. Now if Avdija led us to a winning record or the playoffs then you'd could really flame me lol. The real tragedy is that we're talking about Avdija at all and we're not talking about the player we past up on to get him. I wonder if prime1time had an opinion on that...

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2015127&p=86357628&hilit=Haliburton#p86357628

I really like Haliburton. I'm not against packaging Brown Jr. to trade up for Haliburton...
6'5, 7'0 wingspan. Great shooter. This is an easy pick for the Kings.

Wow, what do you know. This is a take that actually matters. Resigning Avdija, not so much. But like I said, I get stuff wrong all the time. I have no problem admitting it. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

Ok... the two of you have me laughing out loud!

Everybody is right sometimes. Everybody is wrong sometimes. Lots of times. Both ways. It's even possible to both right & wrong in the same statement!

I predicted a dismal outcome for Rui Hachimura. He's become a pretty good player.
Zards loved the pick of Johnny Davis.
Dat2U is usually a deep draft thinker, yet mid R1 of 2021 he called for us to pick a guy who still hasn't played in the league.

Only tleikheen is always right ...

Spoiler:

...along with "Hands" of ancient memory of course...! )

Sure... Everyone is making mistakes before drafts (including actual GMs - otherwise team which finished last wouldn't have two former 2nd overall picks fighting for one place in rotation ).

Situation with Deni was unusual because even 3 years in his NBA career the gap between those who believed in his potential and those who have seen him as insignificant role-player was as wide as before draft.

Deni's "stans" and part of Wizards fans claimed that Deni just never got chance to show his abilities because of team's priorities... while others stated that he got a lot playing time, and his own lack of offensive abilities is the reason he doesn't get larger role.

Moreover even after the much better offensive production season those two point of view still exist: some say that he improved as he got larger and more suitable for him role on offense, while other retain opinion that he improved his shot and finished and so his role increased.

[payitforward]

"Barring major improvement." I'd say a jump in fg%, 3p% and career highs in points, assists and rebounds would qualify as major improvement. It's actually hilarious that you quoted this.

So you actually think he will get another contract now?

I can't recall a post that backfired so quickly and spectacularly.

At the time I was surprised. If this is the best you got, you should do better research. At the time I said I like the Bertans resigning. That was way worse than this lmao. This just shows the fundamental difference between me and most posters. Like I said when I made my comment. The Wizards will suck with Avdija and the Wizards will suck without Avdija. Now if Avdija led us to a winning record or the playoffs then you'd could really flame me lol. The real tragedy is that we're talking about Avdija at all and we're not talking about the player we past up on to get him. I wonder if prime1time had an opinion on that...

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2015127&p=86357628&hilit=Haliburton#p86357628

I really like Haliburton. I'm not against packaging Brown Jr. to trade up for Haliburton...
6'5, 7'0 wingspan. Great shooter. This is an easy pick for the Kings.

Wow, what do you know. This is a take that actually matters. Resigning Avdija, not so much. But like I said, I get stuff wrong all the time. I have no problem admitting it. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

Dude... I like you. I like interacting with you. You are a valued member of this little community of Wizards' nutcases.

But... stop blowing in your own balloon, ok? There's no "fundamental difference" between you & most posters. You're right sometimes -- why not? You're wrong sometimes too -- why not?

I don't recall a single post about Haliburton that didn't say something on the order of "I really like Haliburton."

Then the extremely highly rated Deni Avdija dropped to us, & we took him. Big deal.

Haliburton is a much better player than Deni. He's one of the best players in the league. Nor is he the first or tenth or even the 500th instance in which a lower pick turns out significantly better than a higher pick.

[Ed Wood]

To boost my ego more than the quality of the discourse - I feel pretty good for going at folks who had qualms about Deni based on the stereotype that he was gonna be a European import with porous defense when the one thing that didn't seem terribly speculative at the time was that he was probably going to be a viable NBA defender.

[prime1time]

So you actually think he will get another contract now?

I can't recall a post that backfired so quickly and spectacularly.

At the time I was surprised. If this is the best you got, you should do better research. At the time I said I like the Bertans resigning. That was way worse than this lmao. This just shows the fundamental difference between me and most posters. Like I said when I made my comment. The Wizards will suck with Avdija and the Wizards will suck without Avdija. Now if Avdija led us to a winning record or the playoffs then you'd could really flame me lol. The real tragedy is that we're talking about Avdija at all and we're not talking about the player we past up on to get him. I wonder if prime1time had an opinion on that...

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2015127&p=86357628&hilit=Haliburton#p86357628

I really like Haliburton. I'm not against packaging Brown Jr. to trade up for Haliburton...
6'5, 7'0 wingspan. Great shooter. This is an easy pick for the Kings.

Wow, what do you know. This is a take that actually matters. Resigning Avdija, not so much. But like I said, I get stuff wrong all the time. I have no problem admitting it. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

Dude... I like you. I like interacting with you. You are a valued member of this little community of Wizards' nutcases.

But... stop blowing in your own balloon, ok? There's no "fundamental difference" between you & most posters. You're right sometimes -- why not? You're wrong sometimes too -- why not?

I don't recall a single post about Haliburton that didn't say something on the order of "I really like Haliburton."

Then the extremely highly rated Deni Avdija dropped to us, & we took him. Big deal.

Haliburton is a much better player than Deni. He's one of the best players in the league. Nor is he the first or tenth or even the 500th instance in which a lower pick turns out significantly better than a higher pick.

How is this blowing up my own balloon? I literally said I was for resigning Bertans which was a clear mistake. This is what you call bad reading comprehension. You think fundamental difference refers to me not making mistakes. It does not. It actually refers to me understanding that I get it right and I get it wrong. So when I get it wrong I have no problem admitting it. That's the fundamental difference. Admitting I get stuff wrong.

I've long understood that you are biased against me, but I still wanted to take the time to clarify for other posters my position. It's actually laughable to imply I'm tooting my own horn when I'm bringing up my own mistakes. Just shows how posters on this board hear what they want to hear, regardless of what is actually being said.

[doclinkin]

To boost my ego more than the quality of the discourse - I feel pretty good for going at folks who had qualms about Deni based on the stereotype that he was gonna be a European import with porous defense when the one thing that didn't seem terribly speculative at the time was that he was probably going to be a viable NBA defender.

I'm in that category. Not porous Defense but the track record suggested that Euro cats commonly pick up fouls early until they adjust, because much more hacking and hard play is allowed in FIBA play. What happened though is that under Adam Silver there has been a change in defensive emphasis that has allowed for tougher play on D, which coincided with Deni jumping to the league. He did pick up fouls, and did complain about them and allow that to take him out of his game at times. But his defense has been a revelation since then, he has benefitted from how the refs choose to call the game. And as usual, the better a player is on offense the fewer calls are made against them at either end. Refs have a scorers bias. So this year he averaged only 36 fouls/100 possessions, down from 5.1 his rookie year.

I will say I did not expect him to be as good a rebounder as he has proven to be. Players don't generally instantly increase their rebounding % when they jump to the NBA. But his adjustment here was quick, and its not like he got significantly bigger and stronger in changing leagues. If you predicted that then I'm impressed.

[arusinov]

To boost my ego more than the quality of the discourse - I feel pretty good for going at folks who had qualms about Deni based on the stereotype that he was gonna be a European import with porous defense when the one thing that didn't seem terribly speculative at the time was that he was probably going to be a viable NBA defender.

I'm in that category. Not porous Defense but the track record suggested that Euro cats commonly pick up fouls early until they adjust, because much more hacking and hard play is allowed in FIBA play. What happened though is that under Adam Silver there has been a change in defensive emphasis that has allowed for tougher play on D, which coincided with Deni jumping to the league. He did pick up fouls, and did complain about them and allow that to take him out of his game at times. But his defense has been a revelation since then, he has benefitted from how the refs choose to call the game. And as usual, the better a player is on offense the fewer calls are made against them at either end. Refs have a scorers bias. So this year he averaged only 36 fouls/100 possessions, down from 5.1 his rookie year.

I will say I did not expect him to be as good a rebounder as he has proven to be. Players don't generally instantly increase their rebounding % when they jump to the NBA. But his adjustment here was quick, and its not like he got significantly bigger and stronger in changing leagues. If you predicted that then I'm impressed.

Sure Deni had to adapt to NBA rules and how they are implemented, and change was helpful but... there's very basic difference about " Euro cats" Vs Deni Avdija. Young pre-draft players are generally considered bad to atrocious defenders in Euroleague. There were precisely two exceptions: Rubio and Deni.

Deni was considered good wing defender which can switch on guards and bigs for Maccabi which was playoff Euroleague team (before season was cancelled because of Covid)

Here's what I've written back in draft time:

* People say that their team needs more defense and "Advija can't defend".

- No one knows whether Advija will be good defender in NBA, but saying about player which had 2.4 blk per game in Euro U20 (including 3.3 blk per game in sequence of QF/ SF /F ) and was considered above average defender in Euroleague as 18 - 19 years old that he "can't defend" seems to be an opinion squarely based on prejudice.

- He is regarded as very good team/ help defender and not bad personal defender on wing (in Euroleague) which can switch on bigs and guards

[NatP4]

I will say I did not expect him to be as good a rebounder as he has proven to be. Players don't generally instantly increase their rebounding % when they jump to the NBA. But his adjustment here was quick, and it’s not like he got significantly bigger and stronger in changing leagues. If you predicted that then I'm impressed.

Deni averaged the same amount of rebounds per 36 with Maccabi, as he did in his first two seasons in the NBA.

[doclinkin]

Sure Deni had to adapt to NBA rules and how they are implemented, and change was helpful but... there's very basic difference about " Euro cats" Vs Deni Avdija. Young pre-draft players are generally considered bad to atrocious defenders in Euroleague. There were precisely two exceptions: Rubio and Deni.

Deni was considered good wing defender which can switch on guards and bigs for Maccabi which was playoff Euroleague team (before season was cancelled because of Covid)

Here's what I've written back in draft time:

* People say that their team needs more defense and "Advija can't defend".

- No one knows whether Advija will be good defender in NBA, but saying about player which had 2.4 blk per game in Euro U20 (including 3.3 blk per game in sequence of QF/ SF /F ) and was considered above average defender in Euroleague as 18 - 19 years old that he "can't defend" seems to be an opinion squarely based on prejudice.

- He is regarded as very good team/ help defender and not bad personal defender on wing (in Euroleague) which can switch on bigs and guards

You were right and I was wrong.

[doclinkin]

I will say I did not expect him to be as good a rebounder as he has proven to be. Players don't generally instantly increase their rebounding % when they jump to the NBA. But his adjustment here was quick, and it’s not like he got significantly bigger and stronger in changing leagues. If you predicted that then I'm impressed.

Deni averaged the same amount of rebounds per 36 with Maccabi, as he did in his first two seasons in the NBA.

In 6 minutes per game and 14 minutes per game. Defensive rebounds translate more faithfully than many stats, but generally there is a drop off with both increased exposure and stepping up in leagues. You commonly see it the other way, when players graduate from the NBA but prolong their career overseas with an uptick in rebounding %'s.