Official Trade Thread XIV: 6/14/10 - 12/22/10

[Rafael122]

Rockets just need the roster space so Taylor for cash will probably work.

[LyricalRico]

Rockets just need the roster space so Taylor for cash will probably work.

Ah, you're right. Because of Dampier agreeing to sign with them. Make it happen Ernie!

[closg00]

Co-sign on the get Taylor discussion, the Wiz are done with Young, let's see what Taylor has to offer.

[dangermouse]

Couldnt find the FA thread... we should have a new one for 2011 class.

Jared Dudley signed long term with the Suns. Would have liked him on our team, not overly athletic but a nice defender with a good outside shot, would fit in well and space the floor.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

Josh Smith, he'd look nice running next to wall...

Payroll Could Mean Hawks Will Shop Smith

[Ruzious]

Josh Smith, he'd look nice running next to wall...

Payroll Could Mean Hawks Will Shop Smith

Let me beat Rico to the punch:
Blatche, Thornton, Nick, and a protected pick for Smith and Jordan Crawford.

[Rafael122]

I would give up McGee for Smith to be honest. But would trade the majority of our expiriings for him. Thing is Hinrich would probably hav to be a part of the deal if we don't give up Blatche. So something like Hinrich + McGee + Young would work.

PG - Wall
SG - Arenas
SF - Thornton
PF - Smith
C - Blatche

[Ruzious]

I would give up McGee for Smith to be honest. But would trade the majority of our expiriings for him. Thing is Hinrich would probably hav to be a part of the deal if we don't give up Blatche. So something like Hinrich + McGee + Young would work.

PG - Wall
SG - Arenas
SF - Thornton
PF - Smith
C - Blatche

It defeats the purpose of saving money for them. They'd have another year of Hinrich's salary, and then McGee's contract comes up the next year, so they have to pay him and really haven't saved much - if anything.

[LyricalRico]

Josh Smith, he'd look nice running next to wall...

Payroll Could Mean Hawks Will Shop Smith

Let me beat Rico to the punch:
Blatche, Thornton, Nick, and a protected pick for Smith and Jordan Crawford.

What? No way. Take the protection off the pick and throw in Mcgee...NOW you've got my attention!

[Ruzious]

Let me beat Rico to the punch:
Blatche, Thornton, Nick, and a protected pick for Smith and Jordan Crawford.

What? No way. Take the protection off the pick and throw in Mcgee...NOW you've got my attention!

You'll need protection from Wiz fans' punches if you suggest that trade.

[fishercob]

Josh Smith, he'd look nice running next to wall...

Payroll Could Mean Hawks Will Shop Smith

Let me beat Rico to the punch:
Blatche, Thornton, Nick, and a protected pick for Smith and Jordan Crawford.

Interesting. ATL downgrades from Smith to Blatche, but still gets a damned good young PF and saves a bunch of cash going forward. If they are concerned about payroll maybe they do look at this. If they can get Blatche to give up the long J's (especially 3's) the way Smith did last season then they should make this deal.

On the other hand, look at a comparison between Blatche last year and Smith two seasons ago -- both at age 23 in their fifth season:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... i?id=OZ80h

They're actually nearly identical -- Blatche has a better PER, reb%, assist %. Smith had more blocks, lower turnovers and lower usage, but overall they're quite close.

But what's really interesting to me is the meteoric rise Smith had from the above season (two years ago) to last year. His PER spiked to 21 on the strength of better rebounding a vastly superior passing -- and he stopped shooting 3's. Smith took about 100 3's a year for the preceding four seasons, but last year he shot just 7 (missed them all). Basically it looks like he just.....grew up.

So while Blatche, Young and Thornton for Smith may look good on paper (I highly doubt they'd send back Jordan Crawford), maybe the Wiz are better off keeping Blatche through 14-15 when he'll make just $8.4M then we are trying to speed the rebuild and paying Smith $13.2M in 12-13 when his deal expires. If Blatche matures and grows like Smith, we're a hell of a lot better off not making this deal.

[queridiculo]

So while Blatche, Young and Thornton for Smith may look good on paper (I highly doubt they'd send back Jordan Crawford), maybe the Wiz are better off keeping Blatche through 14-15 when he'll make just $8.4M then we are trying to speed the rebuild and paying Smith $13.2M in 12-13 when his deal expires. If Blatche matures and grows like Smith, we're a hell of a lot better off not making this deal.

I'd take Smith over Blatche even assuming that he will end up producing at a similar level. Smith is a much more dynamic player than Blatche will ever be and brings the added benefit of having experienced the emergence from a rebuilding process.

He brings a bit of nasty and by including Young in that trade Washington also raises the maturity level considerably. McGee could benefit quite a bit from no longer being surrounded by Blatche and Young afaic.

One situation I think is worth keeping an eye on is what's happening in Memphis. Marc Gasol is just what the doctor ordered and the Grizzlies seem to be making quite a mess out of their salary cap situation.

If Washington could somehow rid themselves of Arenas contract (the Carter Orlando situation is worth keeping an eye on) the Wizards could be a legit contender in a heartbeat.

Wall
Hinrich
Howard
Smith
Gasol

I am allowed to dream, no?

[Ruzious]

Let me beat Rico to the punch:
Blatche, Thornton, Nick, and a protected pick for Smith and Jordan Crawford.

Interesting. ATL downgrades from Smith to Blatche, but still gets a damned good young PF and saves a bunch of cash going forward. If they are concerned about payroll maybe they do look at this. If they can get Blatche to give up the long J's (especially 3's) the way Smith did last season then they should make this deal.

On the other hand, look at a comparison between Blatche last year and Smith two seasons ago -- both at age 23 in their fifth season:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... i?id=OZ80h

They're actually nearly identical -- Blatche has a better PER, reb%, assist %. Smith had more blocks, lower turnovers and lower usage, but overall they're quite close.

But what's really interesting to me is the meteoric rise Smith had from the above season (two years ago) to last year. His PER spiked to 21 on the strength of better rebounding a vastly superior passing -- and he stopped shooting 3's. Smith took about 100 3's a year for the preceding four seasons, but last year he shot just 7 (missed them all). Basically it looks like he just.....grew up.

So while Blatche, Young and Thornton for Smith may look good on paper (I highly doubt they'd send back Jordan Crawford), maybe the Wiz are better off keeping Blatche through 14-15 when he'll make just $8.4M then we are trying to speed the rebuild and paying Smith $13.2M in 12-13 when his deal expires. If Blatche matures and grows like Smith, we're a hell of a lot better off not making this deal.

Unfortnatley for the Wiz, that takes a ginormous leap of faith to believe. Smith is just a much better player, and there's no reason to believe that's going to change. Also, Jordan Crawford is never going to get off the bench for the Hawks. It makes sense to include him ig Young goes to Atl.

[Hoopalotta]

My problem here is that the J-Smoove deal pinches our cap space downward substantially enough to where we've pretty well got chump change available in 2012 if we're putting out the QO to McGee. That's a pretty big opportunity cost you've got to tack onto this trade in that, if you do this deal, that's pretty well you're team.

I'd be way more inclined if it weren't for that angle and we were in a position much closer to contention when we made it.

[Ruzious]

My problem here is that the J-Smoove deal pinches our cap space downward substantially enough to where we've pretty well got chump change available in 2012 if we're putting out the QO to McGee. That's a pretty big opportunity cost you've got to tack onto this trade in that, if you do this deal, that's pretty well you're team.

I'd be way more inclined if it weren't for that angle and we were in a position much closer to contention when we made it.

Right - we wouldn't have room for a max contract player - assuming Gil isn't traded - though I think we could still have substantial cap room in 2012 - assuming the cap doesn't contract. Smith's salary is roughly 6 mil a year higher than Blatche's in 2010/2011 and 2011/2012. I think getting Smith is worth it, because he can be that all-star big the Wiz need, and his skills fit in well with Wall - particularly on defense and transition.

[Hoopalotta]

Hmmm, the word "pretty" three times in a single paragraph.

I'd be thinking about it, but we're losing a max slot and a draft pick for that upgrade. As you alluded, it would make more sense if were were moving Gil for something in an expiring. I'd be swayed contingent on that as it's costing us a lot less in that scenario.

Part of me would also be concerned with having seen the Hawks undersized frontline get destroyed by Orlando, the typical difficulty of operating a running team in the postseason and the potential for Josh to decline early due to his athletic foundation, though maybe I'm being unreasonable. Also, I that we can hedge with Dray as his contract's cheap enough to justify him as a super sub. Still, I'd be pretty close to pulling the trigger if the cap space issue was solved.

I am higher on Dray than you are, though. I'm not worried about him as, right now, he doesn't have the lift to finish plays created by the guards, so he's pressing to create on his own as the 1st-2nd option and he's not drawing a double team to pass out of. It's one of those 'kingdom for a horse' deals and it has him quite out of sorts. Despite some chucking early, he worked through it fairly well tonight - at least if minding intent more than results or efficiency.

[DaRealHibachi]

Hmmm, the word "pretty" three times in a single paragraph.

I'd be thinking about it, but we're losing a max slot and a draft pick for that upgrade. As you alluded, it would make more sense if were were moving Gil for something in an expiring. I'd be swayed contingent on that it's costing us a lot less in that scenario.

Part of me would also be concerned with having seen the Hawks undersized frontline get destroyed by Orlando, the typical difficulty of operating a running team in the postseason and the potential for Josh to decline early due to his athletic foundation, though maybe I'm being unreasonable. Part of me here likes that we can hedge with Dray as his contract's cheap enough to justify him as a super sub. Still, I'd be pretty close to pulling the trigger if the cap space issue was solved.

I am higher on Dray than you are, though. I'm not worried about him as, right now, he doesn't have the lift to finish plays created by the guards, so he's pressing to create on his own as the 1st-2nd option and he's not drawing a double team to pass out of. It's one of those 'kingdom for a horse' deals and it has him quite out of sorts. Despite some chucking early, he worked through it fairly well tonight - at least if minding intent more than results or efficiency.

Agreed... This was Dray on a very bad day... His shot selection & turnovers weren't up to par, but he shot 14 ft's, had allot of sick baseline spin moves, and was very aggressive... He also missed allot of open shots...

If he can just get his condition up (or back, whatever), and finish strong (Thornton style) he'd be awesome...

[Jimmy Recard]

Not sure if it's already been posted, but looks like Minnesota won't offer Corey Brewer an extension...makes sense now that they've invested on a few other younger 2/3's (Ellington, Wesley Johnson, Hayward, Beasley, Webster). Brewer's still only 24 though. He'll be will be a RFA this summer.

What's everyone's thoughts on signing him to an offer sheet (at the right price) assuming Howard and Thornton aren't back next season?

[Ruzious]

Hmmm, the word "pretty" three times in a single paragraph.

I'd be thinking about it, but we're losing a max slot and a draft pick for that upgrade. As you alluded, it would make more sense if were were moving Gil for something in an expiring. I'd be swayed contingent on that as it's costing us a lot less in that scenario.

Part of me would also be concerned with having seen the Hawks undersized frontline get destroyed by Orlando, the typical difficulty of operating a running team in the postseason and the potential for Josh to decline early due to his athletic foundation, though maybe I'm being unreasonable. Also, I that we can hedge with Dray as his contract's cheap enough to justify him as a super sub. Still, I'd be pretty close to pulling the trigger if the cap space issue was solved.

I am higher on Dray than you are, though. I'm not worried about him as, right now, he doesn't have the lift to finish plays created by the guards, so he's pressing to create on his own as the 1st-2nd option and he's not drawing a double team to pass out of. It's one of those 'kingdom for a horse' deals and it has him quite out of sorts. Despite some chucking early, he worked through it fairly well tonight - at least if minding intent more than results or efficiency.

You're not alone Hoopa. "Pretty" much all of our fellow Wiz fans dramatically overrate Blatche. I think we can agree that if the Wiz are going to become the team we want them to be, there has to be a star quality player on the frontline. Where there's disagreement is the likelihood Blatche is going to be that man. It's possible he does, but I think the chances for him are far smaller than they are for Josh Smith. Smith is 24, so I think it's premature to worry about him losing his athuhleticism. He's a good athlete, but what sets him apart is his amazing defensive reactions to the ball. He can have an off day shooting and still have a great game - ala Kevin Garnett.

And the Hawks annual playoff implosion belongs "pretty" much falls on the shoulders of Joe Johnson. Dude was horrible, and he's the guy they looked to. And Washington surpassed Atlanta for the ability to get dominated up front by Orlando. You need a C to defend Howard, so I don't think that fell on Smith - just as Boston didn't rely on KG to cover Howard. Also, considering the way the CBA pre-negotiations have gone, I wouldn't put all my eggs in the max free agent bucket. At some point, we have to get that frontcourt star. A supersub won't cut it - unless you're eating lunch at Blimpy's.

[REDardWIZskin]

Can we find a way to pry Reggie Evans away from Toronto?