Discussing Other NBA Games 2.0

7-Day Dray · Post #541 » by **7-Day Dray** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:38 pm

That was definitely intentional. He knew he was there because they had just brushed shoulders, and Artest cocked his elbow back and swung. That ain't no accident.

closg00 · Post #542 » by **closg00** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:17 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn73X0qrmVU[/youtube]

Post #543 » by **montestewart** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:36 am

I thought when he changed his name to World Peace, it couldn't be good.

doclinkin · Post #544 » by **doclinkin** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:54 am

Given past history I wouldn't be surprised if Stern considers 86ing him from the league. Suspension through the postseason isn't out of the question.

rl25g · Post #545 » by **rl25g** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:26 am

i honestly think it is completely unfair to say that the Artest foul was intentional.

The main is literally crazy and looking at he he clearly did not see him.

If his his adrenaline was rushing he might not have even felt him brushing by .

Honestly, no one knows and will never really know what was going on in Artest's mind.
His actions are indeed punishable, and he and everyone else known that the action itself deserves a rightful penalty.

At the same time, it is unfair to say what he did was malicious or intentional..
Hate that it happened, but can't say at all that he intended to do so.
Hated that the commentator on ABC kept talking as if it was purely intentional..

A game of adrenaline with a mentally unstable person. Just let the penalty come and leave Artest alone.

hands11 · Post #546 » by **hands11** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:36 am

closg00 wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn73X0qrmVU[/youtube]

That was like a roid rage.

That was insane.

He ddin't just elbow him out of the way, he cocked his elbow as far back as it would go and then unleashed it.

I don't think it was premeditated, but it was intentional.

I could easily see him getting 10 games or so for that.

GhostsOfGil · Post #547 » by **GhostsOfGil** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:50 am

Second replay made it look intentional. He knew there was someone there when they bumped before the elbow. 10 games minimum and a hefty fine.

hands11 · Post #548 » by **hands11** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:12 am

zaRdsAndZeRos wrote:Second replay made it look intentional. He knew there was someone there when they bumped before the elbow. 10 games minimum and a hefty fine.

How big of a fine ? Do they just do games with no pay ?

10 games of 6,790,640 66 games season.

That would be a big chuck.

queridiculo · Post #549 » by **queridiculo** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:20 am

No offense rlg25, but it's absolutely absurd to assert that the elbow was unintentional.

He's clearly aware of Harden and cocks his elbow to deliver a blow.

go'stags · Post #550 » by **go'stags** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:27 am

Disagree, hermitkid. He was way too excited about that dunk. He started flexing and getting macho, so when he felt contact he got more amped up and responded like an idiot. No way it was intentional, though. The slow motion replay makes it much more malicious than it actually was IMO. He will be suspended for a while I'd bet, and rightfully so, but he shouldn't be banned. I hope Harden is alright.

Post #551 » by **montestewart** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:30 am

Looks like it's running about 50-50. Time for a poll.

queridiculo · Post #552 » by **queridiculo** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:32 am

Lol, flexing, he clearly cocks his elbow far back as he can and follows through on contact, what on earth are you watching?

Post #553 » by **montestewart** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:33 am

I'll bet Lakers would love a lifetime ban. Lets them keep the amnesty for a rainy day.

When there's any kind of player-on-player incidents, what's the Players Association's position, or do they just stay out of such things?

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #554 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:42 am

go'stags wrote:Disagree, hermitkid. He was way too excited about that dunk. He started flexing and getting macho, so when he felt contact he got more amped up and responded like an idiot. No way it was intentional, though. The slow motion replay makes it much more malicious than it actually was IMO. He will be suspended for a while I'd bet, and rightfully so, but he shouldn't be banned. I hope Harden is alright.

Jon Bones Jones didn't throw any better elbows on Rashad Evans. What made that even more scary is it was a spontaneous reaction. It did not at all appear to me to be premeditated. That was purely instinctive IMO.

Harden initiated the contact because he impeded Artest, who, before he could run up court following his dunk, had his back to Harden. Artest was flexing and full of emotion. At no point did Artest even look at Harden, his soon-to-be target. Nevertheless, he landed that elbow right on Harden's ear/temple area once he felt the contact of being blocked by Harden. Harden was making a basketball play, trying to get a charge. Or, he was just effing with Artest--and this time got a really bad payoff for that.

I think the play was just a raging guy acting on impulse. It wasn't too different from Kermit Washington blasting Rudy T with the punch. He didn't even see him but he sure reacted to Tomjanovich running toward him.

I agree with go'stags, this was sort of an idiot response and not premeditated. However, I also agree with doclinkin. Given Artest's history, (no, I'm not calling him Metta World Peace ever again), I think he will be suspended through the playoffs.

This one's going to be major. I don't think he's gone for his career, but something into next season wouldn't surprise me at all. The bigger risk will be to his future. The man is pretty unstable and he will take this hard IMO.

Post #555 » by **montestewart** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:53 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Harden initiated the contact because he impeded Artest, who, before he could run up court following his dunk, had his back to Harden. Artest was flexing and full of emotion. At no point did Artest even look at Harden, his soon-to-be target. Nevertheless, he landed that elbow right on Harden's ear/temple area once he felt the contact of being blocked by Harden. Harden was making a basketball play, trying to get a charge. Or, he was just effing with Artest--and this time got a really bad payoff for that.

I was just about to post something similar, but you said it much better. I didn't go as far in reading what Harden was doing, but I could see how Artest might interpret it similarly and spontaneously react. And consider this: it isn't even clear that he knows which players is to his left; if it's Ibaka, that elbow probably goes into his shoulder and end of story (or maybe Ibaka decks World Peace).

I'm not saying he shouldn't get some sort of suspension, because even without premeditation or even intent, you can seriously hurt someone, and that wasn't really in the course of play.

Halcyon · Post #556 » by **Halcyon** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:55 am

First of all, I don't think he "wanted" to hurt Harden. However, it's pretty clear to me after watching it multiple times that he instinctively reacted to bumping into somebody by swinging his elbow to move something/somebody out of his way.

Whatever the case, he needs to be held accountable for what he did. Still pretty damn stupid and irresponsible. I would imagine he gets suspended the rest of the season + playoffs, and probably more games to begin the next season. His saving grace might be that he didn't look at Harden before swinging his elbow, which would have looked way more intentional.

I think playoffs + 10 games total.

rl25g · Post #557 » by **rl25g** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:41 am

definitely like how CCJ put it in words...

looked like a Mad Man over-reacting, full of emotion..

I think Artest needs to be held 100 % accountable for the result of the incident
but at the same time i think it is completely unfair for anyone to say that the elbow was intentional and had malicious intent behind it.

hands11 · Post #558 » by **hands11** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:44 am

go'stags wrote:Disagree, hermitkid. He was way too excited about that dunk. He started flexing and getting macho, so when he felt contact he got more amped up and responded like an idiot. No way it was intentional, though. The slow motion replay makes it much more malicious than it actually was IMO. He will be suspended for a while I'd bet, and rightfully so, but he shouldn't be banned. I hope Harden is alright.

You know what it got me thinking.

What if that elbow hit Harden higher. Like in the eye or temple.

Ouch.

Its fine to get ampted up, but you can't go swinging elbows around like that out of the blue. I mean that wasn't even like clearing out space elbow after a rebound. That elbow was like a judo chop. He actually accelerated his elbow as it came across his head and didnt finish until he had full extension.

doclinkin · Post #559 » by **doclinkin** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:49 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I agree with go'stags, this was sort of an idiot response and not premeditated. However, I also agree with doclinkin. Given Artest's history, (no, I'm not calling him Metta World Peace ever again), I think he will be suspended through the playoffs.

This one's going to be major. I don't think he's gone for his career, but something into next season wouldn't surprise me at all. The bigger risk will be to his future. The man is pretty unstable and he will take this hard IMO.

The malice in the Palace means this thing will be treated with severe due prejudice by Stern. That incident destroyed the league's public reputation in the minds of many. No matter that since then Artest has been on best behavior for years, getting therapy etc, even rehabilitating his lunacy to a point where it's become charming how clearly loony the guy has become (or has always been). (Okay if you ignore harassing Weiner-esque tweetery).

However, in his own defense I suspect he'll only be able to say he has no idea what happened. He lashed out but wasn't thinking about it. wasn't really aware he was doing it. And that very fact is the most damning indictment of him: his lack of self-control is now once again dangerous to the product on the floor.

The lakers are a big draw but they thugged their way out of the playoffs last year, and in the West the nice guy persona of Kevin Durant and the folksy hometown devotion of cow country metropolis OKC towards the urban (ie 'black guy') sport of the NBA in a football mad state is a saleable storyline that helps to defeat the image of incidents like Artest's most notorious. (Or Gungate. Or Crittendon's drive by killing, or pick one). What happens if Harden is out with concussion symptoms for the next couple weeks? (The blow was similar to a rabbit punch, illegal in most sanctioned fights due to lethality. He was a half rotation away from striking the back of the neck, lights out, spinal cord injury and brain bleed) Or longer? What happens if it were the reed thin Durant who was kayoed?

Stern has to send a Stern and severe rebuke. Like axing him from the league with the Laker's blessing. I suspect the punishment on this one is serious enough that it is taken to arbitration. Unless Artest decides he needs the time off, to do whatever odd activity he decides to do when he's alone rolling in circles in the empty roller disco rink of his mind. Aaaaw freak out....

hands11 · Post #560 » by **hands11** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:02 am

Halcyon wrote:First of all, I don't think he "wanted" to hurt Harden. However, it's pretty clear to me after watching it multiple times that he instinctively reacted to bumping into somebody by swinging his elbow to move something/somebody out of his way.

Whatever the case, he needs to be held accountable for what he did. Still pretty damn stupid and irresponsible. I would imagine he gets suspended the rest of the season + playoffs, and probably more games to begin the next season. His saving grace might be that he didn't look at Harden before swinging his elbow, which would have looked way more intentional.

I think playoffs + 10 games total.

Reckless and irresponsible.

It was definitely a get the F out of my way. Man coming through. Arrraawwwwww

Roid rage move. Did you see the look in his eyes when he did it. Crazy eyes.

Who knows what he could see regarding who it was. These guys have pretty good peripheral vision. He could have seen enough to know how tall the person was. Who know. Just a dangerous thing to have someone on the court capable of doing something like that. I mean if your another player on the floor, do you want to play knowing this crazy guy is out there.

But then again, hitting someone while they are going up off balance is dangerous also. Its a dangerous game when players get physical.

What happen to Kareem when he cold sucker punch that guy the face ?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcX__cfX4Bs[/youtube]