Nick Young traded to Clippers/McGee to Denver/Nene to DC

[closg00]

+1 ^ in it's entirety

The fact that Denver began plans to unload Nene immediately after signing him is deeply troubling. What does Denver's medical team know?

My guess is Denver's decision came down to wanting more long term cap flexibility and realizing they could probably get as much production with their center by committee as they could with Nene - and with Faried likely breaking out at PF with a shooting option behind him in Harrington - they really didn't need Nene - especially at 13 mil a year. When you pay a guy 13 mil a year for 5 years, ya gotta NEED him. They don't NEED him.

That and his medical/injury history also factored into the decision. SAC didn't go for trading young for old.

[Silvie Lysandra]

Camby played with Patrick Ewing and guys like Anthony Mason and Anthony Bonner. McGee played with Andray Blatche.

If you want to see DWS be influenced by a teammate, look at the great DeAndre Jordan before and after Blake Griffin became his PF.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ade01.html

Uh, other than a slight dip in year 3 he's pretty much the same guy all 4 years according to advanced stats - the only difference is that Jordan got more PT and he's less putrid at the line. It's also funny that it's taken Javale McGee FOUR years and being in a contract year to become as good on the boards as Jordan has been since his rookie year, and it's funny how Jordan has actually made real strides as a defensive center, while McGee is pretty much the same player defensively he was his rookie year.

But don't worry, his highlight reel dunks and blocks make up for how deficient Javale is in the areas that actually matter, and I doubt George Karl is going to fix any of that.

I mean, Roy Hibbert played with guys like Troy Murphy and Josh McRoberts, Brook Lopez with uh, who? The idea that McGee sucked here because he didn't play with the right PF is ridiculous.

[nate33]

+1 ^ in it's entirety

The fact that Denver began plans to unload Nene immediately after signing him is deeply troubling. What does Denver's medical team know?

My guess is Denver's decision came down to wanting more long term cap flexibility and realizing they could probably get as much production with their center by committee as they could with Nene - and with Faried likely breaking out at PF with a shooting option behind him in Harrington - they really didn't need Nene - especially at 13 mil a year. When you pay a guy 13 mil a year for 5 years, ya gotta NEED him. They don't NEED him.

This.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'm warming to the trade. It's a risk, but seems a worthwhile one. Of the guys we discussed -- Bogut, David Lee, Okafor, etc -- I think Nene makes the most sense.

A couple of weeks ago I pointed out that we had all of two guys on the roster who could both play the game (talent/skill) and think it (BBIQ) in wall and booker. Well, we have a third now.

And holy cow, look how much better positioned we are getting for the summer of '13 when we'll have 8-10 guys already under contract and around $30M in cap room.

Dwight -- a Dan Fegan client (someone asked) -- will be unrestricted and the new CBA gives him little incentive to stay put versus moving. Harden will be a RFA and OKC will have a tough time keeping him and Ibaka. Hell, if we don't win a top-2 pick I might trade it straight up for Harden this summer. OKC would have to look at something like that versus losing Harden for nothing.

Having another good player raises the stakes for the next two summers. I think it opens up some doors that weren't previously there.

So your warming to it, huh? Usually your first instinct is the right one. I think it's a defense mechanism all Wizard fans have. I've seen it with every deal Ernie has made, good & bad. In every case, after a couple of days, the board gets swept up in a groundswell of group think. The trade becomes an obvious positive until were clearly shown otherwise.

To me it's just a bit scary. I'd probably be more confident with the move if Ernie Grunfeld wasn't the one pulling the trigger on it. This has an Ernie style rebuild all over it. And reads nothing like what Teddy Leonsis had been preaching for the longest. It just screams a panicky & desperate GM making one last push to save his job. And McGee struck me as one of those types where the light goes on at some point in his career. Much like it did for for a guy like Tyson Chandler.

Now as I mentioned a few pages back, if this is followed up by an aggressive approach of trying to immediately build a contender by adding additional veteran pieces, then the move makes more sense. But if were simply continuing to rebuild by developing our remaining youth and remaining patient, then I really got to question the logic and timing of this trade.

Preach, Dat.

I don't know what is more appropriate, Amen or +1

[closg00]

+1 ^ in it's entirety

The fact that Denver began plans to unload Nene immediately after signing him is deeply troubling. What does Denver's medical team know?

My guess is Denver's decision came down to wanting more long term cap flexibility and realizing they could probably get as much production with their center by committee as they could with Nene - and with Faried likely breaking out at PF with a shooting option behind him in Harrington - they really didn't need Nene - especially at 13 mil a year. When you pay a guy 13 mil a year for 5 years, ya gotta NEED him. They don't NEED him.

Then why bother resigning Nene at-all then? They realized they didn't need him while the ink was drying on his new contract? Perhaps they also realized that he wasn't worth $13 million annually given his availability and production.

We shall see, as Dat said, this will make more sense if we see additional moves to move-up the rebuild schedule.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Camby played with Patrick Ewing and guys like Anthony Mason and Anthony Bonner. McGee played with Andray Blatche.

If you want to see DWS be influenced by a teammate, look at the great DeAndre Jordan before and after Blake Griffin became his PF.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ade01.html

Uh, other than a slight dip in year 3 he's pretty much the same guy all 4 years according to advanced stats - the only difference is that Jordan got more PT and he's less putrid at the line. It's also funny that it's taken Javale McGee FOUR years and being in a contract year to become as good on the boards as Jordan has been since his rookie year, and it's funny how Jordan has actually made real strides as a defensive center, while McGee is pretty much the same player defensively he was his rookie year.

But don't worry, his highlight reel dunks and blocks make up for how deficient Javale is in the areas that actually matter, and I doubt George Karl is going to fix any of that.

I mean, Roy Hibbert played with guys like Troy Murphy and Josh McRoberts, Brook Lopez with uh, who? The idea that McGee sucked here because he didn't play with the right PF is ridiculous.

Chaos, let me say the Camby comparison isn't great if you've looked more closely than I did. I could be real wrong about Marcus.

Here is what I think the Nuggets will do to get the most out of Javale: Lob city.

I think the way to get the most out of Javale is no different that it is to get the most out of any big man. Feed the ball to the big in scoring position. Lawson does not have nearly as high an assist percentage as John Wall. Yet, I expect him to feed the ball to McGee for more of those dunks. I suspect Denver will be surprised to see McGee has very good hands. I suspect McGee will get more FGAs/minute by a good bit. Since he's able to shoot top-10 in FG percentage, then it is not a bad thing when you shoot. So long as McGee doesn't try a dumb play and he gets the ball in scoring position he is a guy who needs all the shots you can get him.

I don't know what will happen but my guess is Javale's ability to score will be the thing that makes him succeed. Rip didn't suddenly get better as a defender in Detroit. Javale won't suddenly improve in Denver. But McGee is playing with a born leader IMO. Lawson's team did win the NCAA title and he was the quarterback of that team. McGee is playing with an absolute BEAST in Faried. All the bigs who take it right at McGee won't be able to relax because Faried blocks shots from the weak side. The energy McGee expended rebounding? Guess what? He's playing next to a monster now. The two of them together is downright scary.

You guys will see.

[JonathanJoseph]

"We're thinking of him protecting the basket and being a defender. Hopefully get some offensive layups and get on the offensive glass...."JaVale is going to have to find shots in the rhythm of the offense. I don't think he's going to be a first-option offensive guy." -George Karl

"It's a winning team, so I can show I can win and that I'm not a loser just because I was on a losing team."-Javale McGee

LOL. The joke is on you, Denver.

http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_20194414/javale-mcgee-ty-lawson-ready-alley-oop-nuggets

[hands11]

Camby played with Patrick Ewing and guys like Anthony Mason and Anthony Bonner. McGee played with Andray Blatche.

If you want to see DWS be influenced by a teammate, look at the great DeAndre Jordan before and after Blake Griffin became his PF.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ade01.html

Camby as a defender could be attacked by physical bigs. He was always a (way) better defender than Javale, but Marcus has been credited with being a great defender; when, in fact, he is not and has not been a Ben Wallace-type defender.

My only point in bringing up Javale is he is getting better as a rebounder and now he will have better teammates--I expect his DWS will rise and the problems he had at Washington will not be too bad at Denver. I expect he will be a huge success in Denver.

Does Win Share have something to do with winning. Because if it does, I think it is a bad individual measure. It assumes a team has enough talent to actually win. That is more then most individual players can influence unless you are an MJ or Kobe type. A team needs enough talent for a player added to tip them over the top.

I also expect McGee will play better eventually in Denver. It was a good trade for all teams. There will be some bumps along the way for sure. Who knows if either Nick or McGee will even resign with those teams though. At least with the Wiz, Nene is here.

[hands11]

+1 ^ in it's entirety

The fact that Denver began plans to unload Nene immediately after signing him is deeply troubling. What does Denver's medical team know?

My guess is Denver's decision came down to wanting more long term cap flexibility and realizing they could probably get as much production with their center by committee as they could with Nene - and with Faried likely breaking out at PF with a shooting option behind him in Harrington - they really didn't need Nene - especially at 13 mil a year. When you pay a guy 13 mil a year for 5 years, ya gotta NEED him. They don't NEED him.

Thats how I see it. They lost Melo. They are reloading on the fly. Something the Wiz should have done when Gil was in his prime.

Denver got hear the top but not over it. Melo moved on. They got stuff for it. Now they move Nene and reload with Faried and McGee. It makes sense. And they are still good while doing it.

[Jimmy Recard]

Harden will be a RFA and OKC will have a tough time keeping him and Ibaka. Hell, if we don't win a top-2 pick I might trade it straight up for Harden this summer. OKC would have to look at something like that versus losing Harden for nothing.

I know i sound like a broken record, but we absolutely need to make a play to get Harden in DC this or next year. Absolutely love his game. He really is the black Ginobili. Mark my words, he'll be an all star in no time and a borderline superstar one day.

Terrific all round game, great 2 way player. And, like Ginobili, has that savvy basketball mind. He'd be perfect next to Wall going forward.

[hands11]

"We're thinking of him protecting the basket and being a defender. Hopefully get some offensive layups and get on the offensive glass...."JaVale is going to have to find shots in the rhythm of the offense. I don't think he's going to be a first-option offensive guy." -George Karl

"It's a winning team, so I can show I can win and that I'm not a loser just because I was on a losing team."-Javale McGee

LOL. The joke is on you, Denver.

http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_20194414/javale-mcgee-ty-lawson-ready-alley-oop-nuggets

Hold on. It a winning team so you can show you can win. Its already a winning team. You just have to show you can make smart plays and contribute.

I suspect McGees gear will grind as he discovers what winning basketball plays look like. If he is smart, he will focus on rebounds and passing the ball back out. Setting good picks. And finishing when he is set up properly.

Wait. That is what we wanted him to do here.

He can be a good player but it is going to take another year or so. A winning team is where he needs to be in order to develop a solid game. Like others have said. It wasnt going to happen here. I always said, McGee has no ceiling. That is if he can get his mind right. Should be fun to see what he can do and how he adapts. He isnt going to not be a knucklehead overnight. I fully expect we will still see some WTF highlights. Along with regular highlights. He gave us both. I expect he will give them both as well.

[FAH1223]

I'm warming to the trade. It's a risk, but seems a worthwhile one. Of the guys we discussed -- Bogut, David Lee, Okafor, etc -- I think Nene makes the most sense.

A couple of weeks ago I pointed out that we had all of two guys on the roster who could both play the game (talent/skill) and think it (BBIQ) in wall and booker. Well, we have a third now.

And holy cow, look how much better positioned we are getting for the summer of '13 when we'll have 8-10 guys already under contract and around $30M in cap room.

Dwight -- a Dan Fegan client (someone asked) -- will be unrestricted and the new CBA gives him little incentive to stay put versus moving. Harden will be a RFA and OKC will have a tough time keeping him and Ibaka. Hell, if we don't win a top-2 pick I might trade it straight up for Harden this summer. OKC would have to look at something like that versus losing Harden for nothing.

Having another good player raises the stakes for the next two summers. I think it opens up some doors that weren't previously there.

So your warming to it, huh? Usually your first instinct is the right one. I think it's a defense mechanism all Wizard fans have. I've seen it with every deal Ernie has made, good & bad. In every case, after a couple of days, the board gets swept up in a groundswell of group think. The trade becomes an obvious positive until were clearly shown otherwise.

To me it's just a bit scary. I'd probably be more confident with the move if Ernie Grunfeld wasn't the one pulling the trigger on it. This has an Ernie style rebuild all over it. And reads nothing like what Teddy Leonsis had been preaching for the longest. It just screams a panicky & desperate GM making one last push to save his job. And McGee struck me as one of those types where the light goes on at some point in his career. Much like it did for for a guy like Tyson Chandler.

Now as I mentioned a few pages back, if this is followed up by an aggressive approach of trying to immediately build a contender by adding additional veteran pieces, then the move makes more sense. But if were simply continuing to rebuild by developing our remaining youth and remaining patient, then I really got to question the logic and timing of this trade.

Preach, Dat.

I don't know what is more appropriate, Amen or +1

+2. If it was a new GM doing the move, I'd have some confidence in it. But we know EG and we know he will try to short cut things and leave this franchise back to competing for the 1st round

[JonathanJoseph]

+2. If it was a new GM doing the move, I'd have some confidence in it. But we know EG and we know he will try to short cut things and leave this franchise back to competing for the 1st round

As much as Grunfeld needs to go, some of his trades have been very, very good and that extends to the Hinrich trade(s) as recently as a year ago. Just because EG was behind it doesn't mean it has to suck.

This was definitely a last ditch attempt to save his job, and Grunfeld is still very likely to be out of a job very soon. There are plenty of ways to look at this deal, but poo-pooing it just because it was on EG isn't one of them.

[FAH1223]

+2. If it was a new GM doing the move, I'd have some confidence in it. But we know EG and we know he will try to short cut things and leave this franchise back to competing for the 1st round

As much as Grunfeld needs to go, some of his trades have been very, very good and that extends to the Hinrich trade(s) as recently as a year ago. Just because EG was behind it doesn't mean it has to suck.

This was definitely a last ditch attempt to save his job, and Grunfeld is still very likely to be out of a job very soon. There are plenty of ways to look at this deal, but poo-pooing it just because it was on EG isn't one of them.

Hinrich trade was good, I was happy with that.

The draft pissed me off, but I'm not mad with Singleton or Mack... cause of the Vesley pick which was a unanimous decision by the front office.. like wtf?

Since Ted has taken over, Ernie hasn't been bad but the 2009 draft really, really, made me lose faith in him as a GM for this franchise.

[7-Day Dray]

My rec league coach isn't even a Wizards fan, but he even doesn't like the trade. He said "You never trade young-for-old", and that's exactly what the Wizards did. They did the same when they traded Webber for Richmond, and he said his brother gave up his season tickets because it. This trade has potential fail written all over it. If McGee becomes an all-star, this deal is really going to bite us in the butt. The age difference between Wall and Nene just gives me a bad feeling.

[7-Day Dray]

My rec league coach isn't even a Wizards fan, but he even doesn't like the trade. He said "You never trade young-for-old", and that's exactly what the Wizards did. They did the same when they traded Webber for Richmond, and he said his brother gave up his season tickets because it. This trade has potential fail written all over it. If McGee becomes an all-star, this deal is really going to bite us in the butt. The age difference between Wall and Nene just gives me a bad feeling.

[7-Day Dray]

+2. If it was a new GM doing the move, I'd have some confidence in it. But we know EG and we know he will try to short cut things and leave this franchise back to competing for the 1st round

As much as Grunfeld needs to go, some of his trades have been very, very good and that extends to the Hinrich trade(s) as recently as a year ago. Just because EG was behind it doesn't mean it has to suck.

This was definitely a last ditch attempt to save his job, and Grunfeld is still very likely to be out of a job very soon. There are plenty of ways to look at this deal, but poo-pooing it just because it was on EG isn't one of them.

Hinrich trade was good, I was happy with that.

The draft pissed me off, but I'm not mad with Singleton or Mack... cause of the Vesley pick which was a unanimous decision by the front office.. like wtf?

Since Ted has taken over, Ernie hasn't been bad but the 2009 draft really, really, made me lose faith in him as a GM for this franchise.

And the worst thing about it is that Ted will probably retain EG. If he was going to just let him go, I don't think he would've allowed for such a big transaction that probably completely changes the direction of the franchise (even though Ted is saying we're still staying the course). EG is never leaving.

[dandridge 10]

I've been on travel all week so haven't been able to give my thoughts until now. First of all, good riddance to McGee and Young. I think Mike Wise said it best, the biggest problem with both of those guys is they are simply oblivous to their faults. Neither one seemed particularly willing change how they played the game... McGee continues to make stupid and mind-boggling plays despite being ridiculed in the media and Young never showed a propensity to hit the glass or pass the ball even though people have ripped him for being a one trick pony. I am not worried one single bit that either one will "blow up" somewhere else.

With that said, I am not overly enthusiastic about the trade. Like Nivek, I am not thrilled with the length of Nene's contract and the fact that we could be paying Nene substantial amounts of money while his production declines. I am also concerned with the fact that Denver would trade Nene when they just signed him the extension and that there have been reports of Nene not playing with motivation. I think I would have preferred that we let McGee and Young walk and then use the money to go after Hibbert, a much younger player with possibly a higher ceiling.

I will say this though, it will be nice seeing someone with a brain play with Wall at the 5 spot for a while. I hope Nene can stay healthy and find the type of spark he played with last year.

[Jimmy Recard]

My rec league coach isn't even a Wizards fan, but he even doesn't like the trade. He said "You never trade young-for-old", and that's exactly what the Wizards did. They did the same when they traded Webber for Richmond, and he said his brother gave up his season tickets because it. This trade has potential fail written all over it. If McGee becomes an all-star, this deal is really going to bite us in the butt. The age difference between Wall and Nene just gives me a bad feeling.

Jamison for Devin Harris? Butler for Kwame? That worked out pretty well for us

[JonathanJoseph]

My rec league coach isn't even a Wizards fan, but he even doesn't like the trade. He said "You never trade young-for-old", and that's exactly what the Wizards did. They did the same when they traded Webber for Richmond, and he said his brother gave up his season tickets because it. This trade has potential fail written all over it. If McGee becomes an all-star, this deal is really going to bite us in the butt. The age difference between Wall and Nene just gives me a bad feeling.

Jamison for Devin Harris? Butler for Kwame? That worked out pretty well for us

And the Al Jefferson for Garnett trade ushered in a major era in Celtics history.

As a general rule yes, but this was a never-will-be for a in-his-prime NBA center. McGee is still nothing but potential and the Wizards still have too much "potential" on their roster.