Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Doug McDermott might end up better than Porter or Bennett in the NBA.

[stevemcqueen1]

McLemore is going off. I really hope he goes #1.

[pancakes3]

Doug McDermott might end up better than Porter or Bennett in the NBA.

I thought I liked McDermott as much as the next guy but apparently not if the next guy is CCJ. He's a good player but do you really see Dave Lee potential there? He's about 2 inches too short and 20 lbs too light imo. There's no shame in being the white Carl Landry.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Olivier Hanlan, ACC Freshman of the Year, had 41 points. Another kid out of Canada like Bennett, who is destroying NCAA competition.

Hanlan has serious skills and noone's even mentioned his draft stock but they should.

[nate33]

And Ruzious is right. Tweeners are ALWAYS better off at the bigger position. Always.

See, I still disagree with this, nate. For years and years I've said stuff like play McGee at PF with Seraphin at C, or Jamison at SF and get (then decent) Blatche time at PF. Let Butler play SOME SG. I really think Vesely would be better off playing SF as much as any other position.

And for years, you have been wrong.

Seems to me tweeners that tower over guys but who have enough quickness to defend reasonably well have the advantage playing at the SF or smaller position just as much as when they have to give up size.

Now we're talking about 2 different things. A "tweener" who has the quickness to defend the smaller position isn't a tweener. He is a versatile multi-position player. Kevin Durant is not a tweener, for example. Lebron is not a tweener.

I consider a tweener to be someone who is too slow to play average or better defense at the smaller position, and too small to play average or better defense at the taller position. Jamison, for example is a tweener. In that case, tweeners are always better off at the bigger position. There's a reason why coaches always play them that way. It's not because they're idiots. It's because they correctly value skill over height. Skilled players allow for much more flexibility and floor spacing on offense. On defense, you suffer either way (either your tweener is too short or too slow) so you may as well go for the advantage on offense.

[pancakes3]

Derrick Williams would be a tweener in this case. Beasley too. The corpse that used to be MWP that used to be Ron Artest is KILLING the Lakers at SF. Kawhi Leonard, however, seems to be an exception to your rule though, Nate.

[nate33]

Derrick Williams would be a tweener in this case. Beasley too. The corpse that used to be MWP that used to be Ron Artest is KILLING the Lakers at SF. Kawhi Leonard, however, seems to be an exception to your rule though, Nate.

How so? He's 6-7 225. Seems like a pretty pure SF to me. And that's were San Antonio plays him.

[nate33]

Trey Burke really looks like Chris Paul. And not just in his style of play. It's in his stature and in the way he moves. He has pretty long arms for a small guy.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Doug McDermott might end up better than Porter or Bennett in the NBA.

I thought I liked McDermott as much as the next guy but apparently not if the next guy is CCJ. He's a good player but do you really see Dave Lee potential there? He's about 2 inches too short and 20 lbs too light imo. There's no shame in being the white Carl Landry.

Heck no, he's not David Lee.

I made a statement years back that John Wall wasn't the best player on his UK team, Cousins was. That is still very arguable but the statement was considered ABSURD when I said it.

When I talk about McDermott, I do so with knowledge of his physical liabilities. He is a decent NCAA rebounder but no one sees him succeeding as a 6'7" PF in the NBA. His not big and athletic like Lee or Millsap. He's not as fast as either of those guys or as strong. Scouts see no way he can play SF. What I see is a player who is DOMINATING statistically in efficiency. He shoots near 50% threes. He is a VOLUME SCORER. What won't be stopped is his off the ball movement.

I think of guys like Luke Walton and think McDermott is every bit as athletic as Walton. I hate to compare players by race but honestly, Kyle Korver of Creighton is still in the league. The year he was drafted his stats screamed super efficient. Korver dominated in NCAA play, just like McDermott. He went un-drafted because he lacks athleticism. McDermott is more athletic than Korver or Steve Novak, and he's the same kind of shooter.

Doug McDermott can play SF on the Wizards, because they've got super athletic Gs in Wall and Beal, and they've got tough big men.

I think McDermott will be a Wall Szczerbiak type of player.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

And Ruzious is right. Tweeners are ALWAYS better off at the bigger position. Always.

See, I still disagree with this, nate. For years and years I've said stuff like play McGee at PF with Seraphin at C, or Jamison at SF and get (then decent) Blatche time at PF. Let Butler play SOME SG. I really think Vesely would be better off playing SF as much as any other position.

And for years, you have been wrong.

Consistent I prefer to think. Perhaps consistently wrong, but I am consistent.

Seems to me tweeners that tower over guys but who have enough quickness to defend reasonably well have the advantage playing at the SF or smaller position just as much as when they have to give up size.

Now we're talking about 2 different things. A "tweener" who has the quickness to defend the smaller position isn't a tweener. He is a versatile multi-position player. Kevin Durant is not a tweener, for example. Lebron is not a tweener.

I consider a tweener to be someone who is too slow to play average or better defense at the smaller position, and too small to play average or better defense at the taller position. Jamison, for example is a tweener. In that case, tweeners are always better off at the bigger position. There's a reason why coaches always play them that way. It's not because they're idiots. It's because they correctly value skill over height. Skilled players allow for much more flexibility and floor spacing on offense. On defense, you suffer either way (either your tweener is too short or too slow) so you may as well go for the advantage on offense.

Jamison was Sixth Man of the Year and played some of his best basketball primarily at SF for the Mavericks.

nate, I'm going to think more about what you've said. My only comment is that back when the Wizards were getting waxed in the playoffs by Cleveland, I thought they should have put Antawn at SF and force Lebron to try to keep him off the boards. I thought Antawn just wouldn't defend but that when he put effort in he could. He once blocked three shots. The guy just dogged it on defense more than being a stiff IMO.

So, we both like "versatile multi-position players".

So, by your definition McDermott is definitely a tweener. Hmmmm ….

[Ruzious]

Steve, I've come to the realization that we're never going to see eye to eye on the athleticism of a lot of players, fwiw.

I haven't seen Bennett in a while, but I consider him a PF first and foremost. When there's a doubt about whether a college player fits better at the 3 or the 4 in the NBA, most of the time he belongs at the 4, because the skill level and lateral quickness and speed needed at the 3 is so much higher in the NBA. Bennett's biggest strength is his ability to impose his will near the basket.

In the NBA they're going to posterize Bennett a lot of the time.

Ruz, after that long post, I think of Bennett and guys like Barkley and Millsap who play(ed) PF. They cleaned the glass. Does Bennett? He is similarly skilled to those guys but not as productive IMO. I can see your POV that his quickness with strength will enable Bennett to score at PF in the NBA.

Because I am not sure about Bennett, I hope he's not the pick. Iffy motor on defense and a tweener I'm not sure about. In a way he's sort of like Plumlee and Zeller each. There is a potential he's a bit overrated.

Wait a sec. You're pushing McDermott like he's a top prospect, and you're concerned that Bennett's going to get posterized. Bennett's significantly longer, stronger, and more athletic than McDermott. If Bennett's going to get posterized on a regular basis in the NBA, I'm afraid to ask what's going to happen to McD. It's probably not safe for young children to watch.

Btw, Millsap's rebounding has been very oddly pedestrian the last 4 seasons. I'm not sure why.

[Ruzious]

Trey Burke really looks like Chris Paul. And not just in his style of play. It's in his stature and in the way he moves. He has pretty long arms for a small guy.

Kinda like when Kobe was young - it looked like he was immitating Michael Jordan down to the last detail, Burke plays like he's trying to immitate Paul down to the last detail.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Steve, I've come to the realization that we're never going to see eye to eye on the athleticism of a lot of players, fwiw.

I haven't seen Bennett in a while, but I consider him a PF first and foremost. When there's a doubt about whether a college player fits better at the 3 or the 4 in the NBA, most of the time he belongs at the 4, because the skill level and lateral quickness and speed needed at the 3 is so much higher in the NBA. Bennett's biggest strength is his ability to impose his will near the basket.

In the NBA they're going to posterize Bennett a lot of the time.

Ruz, after that long post, I think of Bennett and guys like Barkley and Millsap who play(ed) PF. They cleaned the glass. Does Bennett? He is similarly skilled to those guys but not as productive IMO. I can see your POV that his quickness with strength will enable Bennett to score at PF in the NBA.

Because I am not sure about Bennett, I hope he's not the pick. Iffy motor on defense and a tweener I'm not sure about. In a way he's sort of like Plumlee and Zeller each. There is a potential he's a bit overrated.

Wait a sec. You're pushing McDermott like he's a top prospect, and you're concerned that Bennett's going to get posterized. Bennett's significantly longer, stronger, and more athletic than McDermott. If Bennett's going to get posterized on a regular basis in the NBA, I'm afraid to ask what's going to happen to McD. It's probably not safe for young children to watch.

Btw, Millsap's rebounding has been very oddly pedestrian the last 4 seasons. I'm not sure why.

I think McDermott is a top prospect. I was wrong about Sweetney and Morris Almond becoming great pros. Unbroken, I will go all out and say McDermott does what he does too well to not become a good NBA player. My outrageous statement is he'll end up having a better NBA career than his HS teammate, Harrison Barnes.

He can shoot and he runs and McDermott will find a way to become an NBA starter at some point in his career, sooner than later. I wish I knew Bradley Beal because he has played with McDermott in FIBA Junior play.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/new ... id=6752516

(July 2011)

RIGA, Latvia -- Creighton's Doug McDermott scored 19 points to lead the United States to an 84-47 victory over Poland on Saturday in the consolation round of FIBA's Under 19 World Championship.

McDermott scored the first eight points of the third quarter, helping the U.S. open a 44-21 lead over Poland (4-4).

Patric Young of Florida had 13 points on 6-of-7 shooting and six rebounds for the United States, while Jeremy Lamb of NCAA champion Connecticut had 12 points, five rebounds and four assists.

Tony Mitchell of North Texas tied a U.S. Under 19 game record with four blocked shots.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/new ... id=6733600

LIEPAJA, Latvia -- Jeremy Lamb of national champion Connecticut scored 17 points and Doug McDermott of Creighton had 15 points and eight rebounds to lead the United States to an 82-66 win over China on Saturday in the FIBA Under 19 World Championship.

Tim Hardaway Jr., of Michigan, and Khyle Marshall, of Butler, both had 13 points for the U.S. (3-0), the defending champion and the only team in the 16-team field to finish the preliminary round undefeated. The three-game second round begins Monday.

I don't care what the scouts say, I've been right and they've been wrong as hell in the past more than once. You laughed about Steve Novak and he's respected. McDermott is a way, way better basketball player than Steve Novak.

As far as I'm concerned, McDermott and Wolters both belong in round one. McDermott is worth a mid lottery pick and Wolters is going to be a better pro than Steve Blake. I remember saying Blake would be a decent pro. (Now I was wrong as heck saying I wanted Blake over Arenas after Gil's first season with the Wizards. Boy was I wrong. Hope Wall proves me just as wrong).

No, I think skill and efficiency and knowing how to play will enable McDermott to be a good pro.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Trey Burke really looks like Chris Paul. And not just in his style of play. It's in his stature and in the way he moves. He has pretty long arms for a small guy.

Kinda like when Kobe was young - it looked like he was immitating Michael Jordan down to the last detail, Burke plays like he's trying to immitate Paul down to the last detail.

Ruz, my thoughts about Burke are that there are many PGs in this draft who I want to compare with Burke. Burke's going to be a good pro, but I don't think he's another Chris Paul. He has tremendous offensive teammates. Stauskas, Hardaway Jr., Robinson III, and McGary can all put the ball in the basket.

I want to look at every PG prospect and see how I think the sort out. Smart, Carter-Williams, Kybongo, Pressey, Lorenzo Brown, combo guards McCollum, Wolters, Canaan, Russ Smith all have skills. A guy no mocks seem to like, Ray McCallum, is a very strong PG IMO.

For what the Wizards need, round two with Pressey, Canaan, or Wolters all make sense to me. I love McCollum and Smart even more than Burke.

[nate33]

For what the Wizards need, round two with Pressey, Canaan, or Wolters all make sense to me. I love McCollum and Smart even more than Burke.

McCullom is solid, but I worry a bit because he's a senior playing in a small conference. He's a young senior though. FWIW, Burke is posting a PER of 31.5 as a sophomore in the toughest conference in basketball. When McCullom was 21, he was a junior posting a PER of 32.3 in the Patriot League.

[hands11]

Steve, I've come to the realization that we're never going to see eye to eye on the athleticism of a lot of players, fwiw.

I haven't seen Bennett in a while, but I consider him a PF first and foremost. When there's a doubt about whether a college player fits better at the 3 or the 4 in the NBA, most of the time he belongs at the 4, because the skill level and lateral quickness and speed needed at the 3 is so much higher in the NBA. Bennett's biggest strength is his ability to impose his will near the basket.

Agreed.

I also think that Bennett won't have all that easy of a time scoring against NBA SF's, but he'll be a real asset to the offense as a stretch four.

And Ruzious is right. Tweeners are ALWAYS better off at the bigger position. Always.

See, I still disagree with this, nate. For years and years I've said stuff like play McGee at PF with Seraphin at C, or Jamison at SF and get (then decent) Blatche time at PF. Let Butler play SOME SG. I really think Vesely would be better off playing SF as much as any other position.

What I think is this reminds me of the NFL experiencing a paradigm shift on thinking a quarterback's arm was primarily all that matters, since in the NFL QBs were not supposed to be runners. Now, teams love guys who can run. Kaepernick, Griffin, Wilson, even Luck can run. Suddenly, quarterbacks need to be runners with great arms, too. Geno Smith never would have been the top overall pick in the old days. They probably would have done with him what they did with Anquan Boldin, converted him to receiver.

From that rant, back to basketball …

I think what makes Lebron great is he's the size of a PF but he can effectively play SF and SG. Dude is huge. I would rather have a tweener be a big guy who can rebound, provided he can score efficiently and be a decent team defender. Certainly, having a quickness advantage and going small has its place. But back in the day, Larry Bird was a SF (and a HUGE one). I think he could have been called a SF/PF tweener at nearly 6'10".

As far a Anthony Bennett goes, he certainly seems like a stretch four but he's only going to become great in the NBA at SF if he becomes a star (which I doubt he will). OTOH, Otto Porter at 6'9" has a chance to fill out and be a big SF.

Seems to me tweeners that tower over guys but who have enough quickness to defend reasonably well have the advantage playing at the SF or smaller position just as much as when they have to give up size.

All drums I beat as well.

There are plenty of examples of difference makers like this.

Magic as a PG and every other position on the court.
LeBron as a SF/PF/SG
KD as a SF/SG
Ted as a PF/C not a pure center.

I would want to see Bennett as a SF/PF, not a PF. And as I mentioned before, for thing out of his mouth in his interview was he wanted to become a 2 or 3. He didn't say a 4.

[hands11]

Steve, I've come to the realization that we're never going to see eye to eye on the athleticism of a lot of players, fwiw.

I haven't seen Bennett in a while, but I consider him a PF first and foremost. When there's a doubt about whether a college player fits better at the 3 or the 4 in the NBA, most of the time he belongs at the 4, because the skill level and lateral quickness and speed needed at the 3 is so much higher in the NBA. Bennett's biggest strength is his ability to impose his will near the basket.

In the NBA they're going to posterize Bennett a lot of the time.

Ruz, after that long post, I think of Bennett and guys like Barkley and Millsap who play(ed) PF. They cleaned the glass. Does Bennett? He is similarly skilled to those guys but not as productive IMO. I can see your POV that his quickness with strength will enable Bennett to score at PF in the NBA.

Because I am not sure about Bennett, I hope he's not the pick. Iffy motor on defense and a tweener I'm not sure about. In a way he's sort of like Plumlee and Zeller each. There is a potential he's a bit overrated.

That is my biggest concern, but I called him a baby Barkley. If CB was to play in todays game, he would be a SF.

I rate him higher then Zeller. Bennett is going to posterize some people going to the basket. Its not his offense I'm worried about. He is a little bit of a project by I think he will have an impact.

[hands11]

I'm starting to watch guys whose names keep coming up and their play suggests they are potential NBA players.

Romero Osby is a grown man in the NCAA game.

Alex Oriakhi went from NCAA champ at UConn to real solid SEC big man at Mizzou. He and teammate Laurence Bowers are pretty close to being decent round 2 picks (better than Satoransky for darned sure).

Bowers, Ryan Kelly, Kenny Kadji are all mature players who would be good camp invites as potential stretch 4s.

I'm totally 100% sold on both Doug McDermott and Nate Wolters. DX is flat wrong to rate both players so low. McDermott should be a round one pick and I would take Wolters in the 30s. They and Jack Cooley are getting rated down because they are white and perceived non-athletic. If they were 7 footers or close like Mike Muscala, they would get the benefit of a doubt. Unlike Alex Len, McDermott and Wolters have the will and just know how to play. Valpo has a couple international players, Broekhoff and Van Wijk, who have NBA potential.

Don't want to put too much out there just yet but I like a lot of guys in this draft. Osby is underrated.

http://nbadraft.net/2013mock_draft

They have McDermott at 20th. Bennet at 6th

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft
Bennet is 5th here.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

For what it's worth, Steve Szabin on 980 was saying he's been increasingly hearing from people in the know that Ernie is VERY high on Alex Len.

[AFM]

Great. He'll probably draft him at 2. Such an Ernie pick. He even looks like Vesely.