NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 4

[J-Ves]

I havn't seen a minute of Celtics basketball this year, how are thy so good on defense?

[Illmatic12]

I havn't seen a minute of Celtics basketball this year, how are thy so good on defense?

From what I've seen, Horford has been Boston's best player season.

He's not a voracious rim protector or rebounder, but he does everything else you want from a modern 5. Very mobile and great anticipation on defense. He has a really impressive IQ on that end and works perfectly in concert with their switching defensive wings.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wow, the Celts pulled it off, they are no joke. I wonder if they would have had the same record with Hayward starting?


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Nope.

They are so much better without Hayward. They are quicker defensively and they are bigger starting Brown and Tatum at the wings and Morris at the four.

Hayward would have made them more of an ISO team and they would have been ball watching and much worse defensively.

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[Gant]

I havn't seen a minute of Celtics basketball this year, how are thy so good on defense?

1) They were tiny last year at the smaller spots. They replaced IT, Bradley and Crowder with Kyrie, Brown, and Tatum, gaining multiple inches at each position. Tatum and Brown are extremely good defenders despite their youth. Kyrie has been shockingly better than expected on D.

2) Last year they were soft and mostly short-armed in the frontcourt. They replaced Olynyk, Amir Johnson, and Zeller with the mighty Baynes who takes the heat off Horford by battling the huge guys and leaving Horford free to roam on defense. Morris is tough too.

3) They're deep all the way through the rotation on D. Rozier and Smart are a great defensive backcourt coming off the bench. They don't lose anything defensively even down to the 9th and 10th men (Theis and Ojeleye). Theis is outstanding on that end.

4) Versatility. Because almost everyone in their rotation can guard multiple positions, they don't get hurt by switches and the opponent gets few if any mismatches. Their versatility on defense is abnormally good.

5) They've gone from 27th in defensive rebounding% last season to 2nd this year. That means they no longer give up second chance points.


They're longer, stronger, taller, more athletic, deeper and much more versatile on D than last season. They may slip a bit on that end as time goes on, but it won't be by much. It's not a mirage.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I havn't seen a minute of Celtics basketball this year, how are thy so good on defense?

From what I've seen, Horford has been Boston's best player season.

He's not a voracious rim protector or rebounder, but he does everything else you want from a modern 5. Very mobile and great anticipation on defense. He has a really impressive IQ on that end and works perfectly in concert with their switching defensive wings.

Their wings are tremendously underrated.

Compare Jaylen Brown and Tatum to Beal and Porter. Which is better in defensive transition? Rebounding? Contesting shots?

Consider that Beal and Porter are both max players. Brown and Tatum or something like 22 and 20 years old.



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[Illmatic12]

I havn't seen a minute of Celtics basketball this year, how are thy so good on defense?

From what I've seen, Horford has been Boston's best player season.

He's not a voracious rim protector or rebounder, but he does everything else you want from a modern 5. Very mobile and great anticipation on defense. He has a really impressive IQ on that end and works perfectly in concert with their switching defensive wings.

Their wings are tremendously underrated.

Compare Jaylen Brown and Tatum to Beal and Porter. Which is better in defensive transition? Rebounding? Contesting shots?

Consider that Beal and Porter are both max players. Brown and Tatum or something like 22 and 20 years old.



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Porter is one of the top rated defenders in the league this season. +1.67 in DRPM

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/5

Brown and Tatum have a long way to go before they measure up to Beal and Porter as all-around players. But they’re definitely playing better than many expected so far, which I think is a credit to the coaching

[tontoz]

Horford would have been a great fit here.

[Kanyewest]

Wow, the Celts pulled it off, they are no joke. I wonder if they would have had the same record with Hayward starting?


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Nope.

They are so much better without Hayward. They are quicker defensively and they are bigger starting Brown and Tatum at the wings and Morris at the four.

Hayward would have made them more of an ISO team and they would have been ball watching and much worse defensively.

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Given how Kyrie Irving has become a above average defender, I'm not sure. Also, the Celtics probably score over 100 points instead of 92 with Hayward in the lineup.

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[FAH1223]

Their wings are tremendously underrated.

Compare Jaylen Brown and Tatum to Beal and Porter. Which is better in defensive transition? Rebounding? Contesting shots?

Consider that Beal and Porter are both max players. Brown and Tatum or something like 22 and 20 years old.

Brown/Tatum at their ages right now are ahead of Beal/Porter. What remains to be seen is how they play in the postseason. Beal as a 20 year old had some above average playoff performances.

[queridiculo]

The Celtics are really sound in their rotations, and Jaylen Brown just cleans up as lightning quick help defender on mop up duty.

Impressive victory yesterday but two things stood out to me.

Golden State missed a lot of open looks and it felt like the refs got caught up in the atmosphere and favored the Celtics with a majority of the calls following the Warriors 17 point lead.

Brown got away with a ton of holds and pushes against Durant and in a sequence of plays those missed calls accounted for a 6-0 run for Boston alone.

Several phantom calls against Thompson that sent Irving to the line in the closing minutes as well.

Thing is, the Celtics are extremely well coached on the defensive end and they just make all the right initial reads, so if you're playing them in the halfcourt set you have to be extremely patient and resist the temptation to take quick shots.

If you keep the ball moving you'll get your mismatches and breakdowns, but you have to play on your terms and be patient.

Also, with their offense being as poor as it is there are opportunities to get into transition as long as you clean up on your own board.

[nate33]

Horford would have been a great fit here.

Yup. A GREAT fit. Imagine our exact same roster with Horford replacing Mahinmi+Smith. Oh yeah, and we wouldn't have sacrificed our 1st round pick to dump Nicholson.

[nate33]

The Celtics are really sound in their rotations, and Jaylen Brown just cleans up as lightning quick help defender on mop up duty.

Impressive victory yesterday but two things stood out to me.

Golden State missed a lot of open looks and it felt like the refs got caught up in the atmosphere and favored the Celtics with a majority of the calls following the Warriors 17 point lead.

Brown got away with a ton of holds and pushes against Durant and in a sequence of plays those missed calls accounted for a 6-0 run for Boston alone.

Several phantom calls against Thompson that sent Irving to the line in the closing minutes as well.

Thing is, the Celtics are extremely well coached on the defensive end and they just make all the right initial reads, so if you're playing them in the halfcourt set you have to be extremely patient and resist the temptation to take quick shots.

If you keep the ball moving you'll get your mismatches and breakdowns, but you have to play on your terms and be patient.

Also, with their offense being as poor as it is there are opportunities to get into transition as long as you clean up on your own board.

Yup. Boston grabs and holds to the maximum extent possible to force the refs to blow the whistle. Over time, the refs get tired of calling those fouls and you end up with a slug fest, which plays into Boston's hands.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Wow, the Celts pulled it off, they are no joke. I wonder if they would have had the same record with Hayward starting?


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I honestly think they are better without him.

Their athleticism and length is scary.

[tontoz]

The Celtics are really sound in their rotations, and Jaylen Brown just cleans up as lightning quick help defender on mop up duty.

Impressive victory yesterday but two things stood out to me.

Golden State missed a lot of open looks and it felt like the refs got caught up in the atmosphere and favored the Celtics with a majority of the calls following the Warriors 17 point lead.

Brown got away with a ton of holds and pushes against Durant and in a sequence of plays those missed calls accounted for a 6-0 run for Boston alone.

Several phantom calls against Thompson that sent Irving to the line in the closing minutes as well.

Thing is, the Celtics are extremely well coached on the defensive end and they just make all the right initial reads, so if you're playing them in the halfcourt set you have to be extremely patient and resist the temptation to take quick shots.

If you keep the ball moving you'll get your mismatches and breakdowns, but you have to play on your terms and be patient.

Also, with their offense being as poor as it is there are opportunities to get into transition as long as you clean up on your own board.

Yup. Boston grabs and holds to the maximum extent possible to force the refs to blow the whistle. Over time, the refs get tired of calling those fouls and you end up with a slug fest, which plays into Boston's hands.

That is exactly what the Knicks used to do when Ewing was there.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Who is this 7 ft Latvian with the butter stroke playing for the Spurs?

His shot is niiice

[nate33]

Wow, the Celts pulled it off, they are no joke. I wonder if they would have had the same record with Hayward starting?


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I honestly think they are better without him.

Their athleticism and length is scary.

Yes, it's possible that they might have lost a game if Hayward was healthy. The league is flukey like that. But in the long run, more talent is better than less talent. Hayward is extremely good and he will definitely help them. When Hayward comes back, he'll be taking minutes from Baynes and Morris, not Brown and Tatum. That's a good thing.

[FAH1223]

Who is this 7 ft Latvian with the butter stroke playing for the Spurs?

His shot is niiice

I was really impressed with Danny Green's defense. He CLAMPED down Westbrook.

Spurs getting all these randoms on the bench a lot of PT... they're going to be back to their 60 win selves when Kawhi is healthy... whenever that is.

[ClutchDJ]

In other news, the Magic finally came back down to earth.

[closg00]

Who is this 7 ft Latvian with the butter stroke playing for the Spurs?

His shot is niiice

another Spurs draft and stash, this one from the infamous 2011 draft, 42nd pick.

[verbal8]

Horford would have been a great fit here.

Amazing how much of EGs incompetence could have been covered up with a Horford signing.

Or alternately if EG had set the Wizards up better, they likely would have been a more appealing destination for Horford when Durant picked GS.