Political Roundtable Part XVIII

[cammac]

The Cook Political Report, a nonpartisan elections analyst, moved 21 House races in favor of the Democratic Party in its latest rankings released on Thursday.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/372938-cook-political-report-moves-21-house-races-toward-dems

[stilldropin20]

Nate answer one simple question!
Why hasn't Trump put sanctions on Russia that were overwhelming passed by both the Senate and the House. He signed the bill and is basically in contempt for not implementing it?
What is his justification?

Because Trump doesn't want to unnecessarily provoke a trade war or a real war with a nuclear power. Or because Trump wants to work with Russia to triangulate against a much greater threat: China. Or because Trump sees Russia as a possibly ally in the war on Islamic extremism.

But isn't Trump breaking the law and the will of the American people.
Over 90% of the legislators voted on it representing 90% + of the American people!
He only represents less people than Hillary Clinton.
What trade war can Russia have?
Russia is a ally of Syria & Iran?
Russia has zero influence on Chinese policy.
Islamic extremism only if affects the Russian motherland.
Pathetic

I will answer this one. Congress doesn't get briefed by the CIA regularly nor the FBI regularly nor the state department regularly has Donald Trump would.

through two world wars and many other crisis around the globe Russia has been an ally and remains a natural Ally to the United States. There's no reason for them to not potentially be an ally again

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[stilldropin20]

But isn't Trump breaking the law and the will of the American people.
Over 90% of the legislators voted on it representing 90% + of the American people!
He only represents less people than Hillary Clinton.
What trade war can Russia have?
Russia is a ally of Syria & Iran?
Russia has zero influence on Chinese policy.
Islamic extremism only if affects the Russian motherland.
Pathetic

For some reason, you don't seem to understand that Trump is also a representation of the will of the American people. Certainly among Republicans, he is liked and trusted far more than Congress.

For some reason, you don't seem to understand that Trump didn't even win the popular vote.

For some reason none of you guys are understanding that Trump has a stronger base support than any other president of the modern era.

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[Zonkerbl]

Well whatever the President isn't above the law no matter how popular he is so this conversation is moot.

[gtn130]

So far, yes, there is zero justification to be investigating Trump. If somebody has some justification, I would like to see it. There are about 10 of you fanatically rabid Trump-hating liberals on this board, and none of you can produce any justification.

Regarding the FISA act, I appear to have given you the impression that I have unyielding faith in it. I don't. I wasn't a big fan of the initial Patriot Act but went along with it because it's provisions were sunsette. Unfortunately, they keep getting extended. That said, I do think the NSA has a role in protecting our nation and we need to find a way to utilize it's powers for good without abusing it for evil. The FISA act seemed to be a good faith effort in doing so, but it has apparently failed. I would definitely be in favor of re-evaluating the oversight methods in place, but that doesn't mean it should be scrapped completely.

No, I'm pointing out that you have this wildly conspiratorial explanation that the Deep State is trying to take down Overlord Trump with sham investigations, yet you were totally fine with congress empowering them with 702 reauthorization. You claim the OBAMA JUDGES are CORRUPT and wielding their authority nefariously, yet again, you were totally 100% a-okay with FISA reauth.

Your posts on this topic are pure concern trolling. You're shrieking about Daddy Trump being investigated because you know they're going to find a bunch of really bad stuff.

I've never said a negative thing about the FISA judges. They permitted the warrant because they were deliberately mislead by a corrupt FBI and DOJ. And I never said I was 100% A-okay with FISA re-authorization. I only said that the FISA system, or something like it, is a valuable tool to fight against domestic terrorism. I would be against scrapping it completely.

Oh ok.

You somehow magically know that the FISA court itself is 100% above board and uncorrupted, and it's instead that a select number of unnamed FBI and DOJ employees are leftist political operatives working to overthrow Daddy. How convenient!

But yeah, to make sure I've got this story straight I've got:

Corrupt FBI and DOJ who should be purged ASAP -->
They trick honest FISA court into erroneously giving them warrants -->
CORRUPT LIBERAL FBI/DOJ then use said warrants to spy on Trump.

You have been adamant that the FBI/DOJ is corrupt, yet you were fine with expanding the powers of the FISA court which hands them warrants to spy on your man. This is a laughably inconsistent line you're taking here.

If you thought the military was a corrupt leftist enterprise, would you be in favor of expanding defense contracting to build military weapons? Military grade weaponry can do so much good while in the right hands!

[stilldropin20]

And the polls have consistently been 5 to 7 percentage points low for Trump because of the divisive vitriol infused into many issues like immigration reform a lot of people don't like to admit that they like the way Trump governs.

I would not be surprised if he could still win presidential election today

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[gtn130]

For some reason, you don't seem to understand that we don't elect Presidents based on the popular vote.

Yes because states with low populations have disproportionate number of electoral votes.

You're literally arguing right now that Trump, by not implementing Russian sanctions, is speaking for the will of American land mass

[Zonkerbl]

Not about race, don't make me laugh. All the old white fogeys in Congress just passed a law that made it perfectly fine to do whatever it was that Obama did to Trump during the election. Because it's fine to unconstitutionally surveil brown people.

But GATDAYUM how dare a black man illegally surveil a white man! Lynch him! Lynch him now!

[nate33]

No, I'm pointing out that you have this wildly conspiratorial explanation that the Deep State is trying to take down Overlord Trump with sham investigations, yet you were totally fine with congress empowering them with 702 reauthorization. You claim the OBAMA JUDGES are CORRUPT and wielding their authority nefariously, yet again, you were totally 100% a-okay with FISA reauth.

Your posts on this topic are pure concern trolling. You're shrieking about Daddy Trump being investigated because you know they're going to find a bunch of really bad stuff.

I've never said a negative thing about the FISA judges. They permitted the warrant because they were deliberately mislead by a corrupt FBI and DOJ. And I never said I was 100% A-okay with FISA re-authorization. I only said that the FISA system, or something like it, is a valuable tool to fight against domestic terrorism. I would be against scrapping it completely.

Oh ok.

You somehow magically know that the FISA court itself is 100% above board and uncorrupted, and it's instead that a select number of unnamed FBI and DOJ employees are leftist political operatives working to overthrow Daddy. How convenient!

But yeah, to make sure I've got this story straight I've got:

Corrupt FBI and DOJ who should be purged ASAP -->
They trick honest FISA court into erroneously giving them warrants -->
CORRUPT LIBERAL FBI/DOJ then use said warrants to spy on Trump.

You have been adamant that the FBI/DOJ is corrupt, yet you were fine with expanding the powers of the FISA court which hands them warrants to spy on your man. This is a laughably inconsistent line you're taking here.

If you thought the military was a corrupt leftist enterprise, would you be in favor of expanding defense contracting to build military weapons? Military grade weaponry can do so much good while in the right hands!

You are impossible to talk to because you keep fabricating strawmen to shoot down.

I make no claim that the FISA court is above board and uncorrupted. I'm saying that I have no reason to believe that, with respect to the Carter Page warrant, that the judges did anything wrong. The evidence to date suggests they were knowingly misinformed by the FBI. Maybe they are corrupt in other cases. How the heck am I in position know?

You keep attacking me as if I have some fundamental inconsistency in my view of the FISA court. I don't. I have stated two things: One: the process by which the warrant on Page was obtained was corrupt. Two: some means of covert surveillance of potential terrorists is in the national security interests of America. It's possible to believe both of these things to be true without maintaining some type of fundamental cognitive dissonance.

I will not discuss this matter with you further because you have no interest in even understanding what I am saying. Instead you want to play gotcha.

[gtn130]

I've never said a negative thing about the FISA judges. They permitted the warrant because they were deliberately mislead by a corrupt FBI and DOJ. And I never said I was 100% A-okay with FISA re-authorization. I only said that the FISA system, or something like it, is a valuable tool to fight against domestic terrorism. I would be against scrapping it completely.

Oh ok.

You somehow magically know that the FISA court itself is 100% above board and uncorrupted, and it's instead that a select number of unnamed FBI and DOJ employees are leftist political operatives working to overthrow Daddy. How convenient!

But yeah, to make sure I've got this story straight I've got:

Corrupt FBI and DOJ who should be purged ASAP -->
They trick honest FISA court into erroneously giving them warrants -->
CORRUPT LIBERAL FBI/DOJ then use said warrants to spy on Trump.

You have been adamant that the FBI/DOJ is corrupt, yet you were fine with expanding the powers of the FISA court which hands them warrants to spy on your man. This is a laughably inconsistent line you're taking here.

If you thought the military was a corrupt leftist enterprise, would you be in favor of expanding defense contracting to build military weapons? Military grade weaponry can do so much good while in the right hands!

You are impossible to talk to because you keep fabricating strawmen to shoot down.

I make no claim that the FISA court is above board and uncorrupted. I'm saying that I have no reason to believe that, with respect to the Carter Page warrant, that the judges did anything wrong. The evidence to date suggests they were knowingly misinformed by the FBI. Maybe they are corrupt in other cases. How the heck am I in position know?

You keep attacking me as if I have some fundamental inconsistency in my view of the FISA court. I don't. I have stated two things: One: the process by which the warrant on Page was obtained was corrupt. Two: some means of covert surveillance of potential terrorists is in the national security interests of America. It's possible to believe both of these things to be true without maintaining some type of fundamental cognitive dissonance.

I will not discuss this matter with you further because you have no interest in even understanding what I am saying. Instead you want to play gotcha.

If you thought the military was a corrupt leftist enterprise, would you be in favor of expanding defense contracting to build military weapons? Military grade weaponry can do so much good while in the right hands!

[Wizardspride]

Because Trump doesn't want to unnecessarily provoke a trade war or a real war with a nuclear power. Or because Trump wants to work with Russia to triangulate against a much greater threat: China. Or because Trump sees Russia as a possibly ally in the war on Islamic extremism.

But isn't Trump breaking the law and the will of the American people.
Over 90% of the legislators voted on it representing 90% + of the American people!
He only represents less people than Hillary Clinton.
What trade war can Russia have?
Russia is a ally of Syria & Iran?
Russia has zero influence on Chinese policy.
Islamic extremism only if affects the Russian motherland.
Pathetic

I will answer this one. Congress doesn't get briefed by the CIA regularly nor the FBI regularly nor the state department regularly has Donald Trump would.

through two world wars and many other crisis around the globe Russia has been an ally and remains a natural Ally to the United States. There's no reason for them to not potentially be an ally again

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Ok. Let's just say Russia did interfere in our elections.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying we may need them in the future so just let it slide?

[gtn130]

So Nate is on record saying he's fine with Trump ignoring the law and refusing to implement Russian sanctions because it's the will of the people.

lol

[nate33]

So Nate is on record saying he's fine with Trump ignoring the law and refusing to implement Russian sanctions because it's the will of the people.

lol

He is not ignoring the law. He is interpreting it in a less stringent manner than many would prefer.

[cammac]

SD20s fabrications never stop now the polls are wrong to 6 to 8 points.
The reality is they are likely to high!
4 elections this week in deep red Missouri where Trump romped by huge margins the Republicans won 3 lost 1 but a 2nd was very close.
State elections are being won in red states in tough Republican seats the pattern of things to come. Plus Pennsylvania will be redistricted giving Democrats extra seats from the Gerrymandering of the Republicans.

[gtn130]

So Nate is on record saying he's fine with Trump ignoring the law and refusing to implement Russian sanctions because it's the will of the people.

lol

He is not ignoring the law. He is interpreting it in a less stringent manner than many would prefer.

Sure, buddy.

He's interpreting the law 'in a less stringent manner' because it's the will of the people. The people totally want him to go easy on Russia. You nailed it.

[nate33]

So Nate is on record saying he's fine with Trump ignoring the law and refusing to implement Russian sanctions because it's the will of the people.

lol

He is not ignoring the law. He is interpreting it in a less stringent manner than many would prefer.

Sure, buddy.

He's interpreting the law 'in a less stringent manner' because it's the will of the people. The people totally want him to go easy on Russia. You nailed it.

Do you really think that "the will of the people" cares all that much about an obscure sanction against Russian defense sectors? I guarantee you than 90% of "the people" have no idea what we are talking about.

[gtn130]

He is not ignoring the law. He is interpreting it in a less stringent manner than many would prefer.

Sure, buddy.

He's interpreting the law 'in a less stringent manner' because it's the will of the people. The people totally want him to go easy on Russia. You nailed it.

Do you really think that "the will of the people" cares all that much about an obscure sanction against Russian defense sectors? I guarantee you than 90% of "the people" have no idea what we are talking about.

So give Trump carte blanche to do whatever he wants regardless of what's legal because the average joe doesn't know about it?

I feel like the average Joe would probably prefer the President of the US follow the law instead of 'interpreting the law in a less stringent manner' but I'm a liberal coastal elite living in a bubble so what do I know

[cammac]

He is not ignoring the law. He is interpreting it in a less stringent manner than many would prefer.

Sure, buddy.

He's interpreting the law 'in a less stringent manner' because it's the will of the people. The people totally want him to go easy on Russia. You nailed it.

Do you really think that "the will of the people" cares all that much about an obscure sanction against Russian defense sectors? I guarantee you than 90% of "the people" have no idea what we are talking about.

You know its much more than that its adding name of Russian oligarchs to have assets frozen and not to allow Putin to launder money.

[stilldropin20]

For some reason, you don't seem to understand that we don't elect Presidents based on the popular vote.

Yes because states with low populations have disproportionate number of electoral votes.

You're literally arguing right now that Trump, by not implementing Russian sanctions, is speaking for the will of American land mass

And conversely five or six massive u.s. cities should not determine the entire "will" of the all the people of the United States as an entire country.

Just because those cities are massively overpopulated and extremely dense. With a significant population of uneducated and under-educated even non-english-speaking!! entitlement sucking populace.... Those people should determine the will of the entire United States? Really?

Look I don't think the hillbillies In The Sticks should have too much say in the direction of our country and I also don't think the uneducated folks in the cities should have too much say either.

But above all of that at some point are elected officials need to get prudent, need to get pragmatic, I need to solve actual problems of the debt crisis. And govern based almost solely in terms solving the debt crisis while simultaneously considering all other social and foreign policies.



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[nate33]

For some reason, you don't seem to understand that we don't elect Presidents based on the popular vote.

Yes because states with low populations have disproportionate number of electoral votes.

You're literally arguing right now that Trump, by not implementing Russian sanctions, is speaking for the will of American land mass

And conversely five or six massive u.s. cities should not determine the entire "will" of the all the people of the United States as an entire country.

Just because those cities are massively overpopulated and extremely dense. With a significant population of uneducated and under-educated even non-english-speaking!! entitlement sucking populace.... Those people should determine the will of the entire United States? Really?

Look I don't think the hillbillies In The Sticks should have too much say in the direction of our country and I also don't think the uneducated folks in the cities should have too much say either.

But above all of that at some point are elected officials need to get prudent, need to get pragmatic, I need to solve actual problems of the debt crisis. And govern based almost solely in terms solving the debt crisis while simultaneously considering all other social and foreign policies.



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There's also the problem of California and New York having disproportionate electoral weight because their population totals are inflated by illegal aliens (who count toward electoral weighting even if they can't vote).