Political Roundtable Part XXV

[Jamaaliver]

Why you still don’t understand the Green New Deal

“Tactical framing” is turning us all into cynics.

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The Green New Deal is an ambitious proposal that outlines how the US might begin transitioning toward a green economy over the next 10 years. It includes steps like upgrading our power grid and renovating our transportation infrastructure.

So far, news coverage of the proposal has been defined by a focus on political questions -- Those questions represent “tactical framing” — an approach to news coverage that focuses on strategy and polling rather than a policy’s substantive benefits. As a result, audiences exposed to tactical framing are less likely to remember basic details about the policies they hear about. Once their cynicism is activated, they mentally check out.

The goal of political journalism should be to give people the information they need to be good voters. That means analyzing policy proposals on their merit and resisting the urge to treat all policy debates like a partisan game.

VOX

[stilldropin20]

there was a black girl in florda earlier this admission cycle whose scores were flagged after a 200 pt increase

wtf does the color of her skin have to do with anything. its 2019. Grow up!

[Wizardspride]

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[Jamaaliver]

Some perspective on last week's sentencing:

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[dckingsfan]

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You don't care about Manafort. You care that our sentencing in the US is ridiculous (Zonk, weigh in her pleaaaasssseee). Our war on drugs, tough on crime, 3 strikes, etc. is stupid. It is regressive, it is racist, it is economically terrible for the country.

Comparing sentences is well...

[Pointgod]

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https://splinternews.com/stop-trying-to-make-jexodus-happen-1833231238

Like everything involved with Trump this is a grift.

Currently the group has just over 1,600 followers on Twitter, and slightly more than 2,000 fans on Facebook. Hardly the sort of mass movement of motivated millennials that would warrant the time and energy of the president of the United States—until you consider that Jexodus is reportedly the brainchild of media executive, Trump advisor and surrogate, and longtime GOP hawk Jeff Balloban, who as early as 2008 was arguing that American Jewry’s growing Orthodox population—coupled with an influx of Jewish Russian, Syrian, and Iranian immigrants—could stem the tide of left-leaning Jewish voters.

In the 2018 midterms Democrats got 80% of the Jewish vote. Not much of an exodus really.

[Pointgod]

Some perspective on last week's sentencing:

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This is not news to anyone who knows how racist the criminal justice system is. Hopefully this will force people to push their representatives for real criminal justice reform.

[Ruzious]

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This must be Moron Tuesday on Trump's twitter account. That and airplanes are too complex to fly... our President ladies and gents. Give him a round of applause... and 2 rounds of arsenic.

[gtn130]

Yeah those tweets about airplanes being complicated were some the absolute dumbest among what is a bottomless well of idiotic tweets. The President is dumber than 99.9% of the people i’ve met in my entire life and honestly i’m giving him the benefit of the doubt at 99.9% because i can’t name a single person in my personal life who isn’t smarter than Trump

[dobrojim]

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You don't care about Manafort. You care that our sentencing in the US is ridiculous (Zonk, weigh in her pleaaaasssseee). Our war on drugs, tough on crime, 3 strikes, etc. is stupid. It is regressive, it is racist, it is economically terrible for the country.

Comparing sentences is well...

Problem, as I suspect you and others on this thread well know, is that for profit prisons
have become a thing (maybe they long have been) and their lobbyists, like those of
an untold number of other special interests, have corrupted the political process.

edit to add - I like Pine's idea of prohibiting lobbying in private.

[dckingsfan]

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You don't care about Manafort. You care that our sentencing in the US is ridiculous (Zonk, weigh in her pleaaaasssseee). Our war on drugs, tough on crime, 3 strikes, etc. is stupid. It is regressive, it is racist, it is economically terrible for the country.

Comparing sentences is well...

Problem, as I suspect you and others on this thread well know, is that for profit prisons have become a thing (maybe they long have been) and their lobbyists, like those of an untold number of other special interests, have corrupted the political process.

edit to add - I like Pine's idea of prohibiting lobbying in private.

Boom - the Prison Industrial Complex is strong - and it is strong on both sides. You have the businesses that own and/or run prisons and you have the prison guard unions. They are very difficult to take on at the local and state level.

And then you have the "stupid on crime" candidates that run on fear - which is also extremely effective.

It is going to be a tough triangle to break.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Boom - the Prison Industrial Complex is strong - and it is strong on both sides. You have the businesses that own and/or run prisons and you have the prison guard unions. They are very difficult to take on at the local and state level.

And then you have the "stupid on crime" candidates that run on fear - which is also extremely effective.

It is going to be a tough triangle to break.

I see prisons in a pretty similar way to hospitals - we need to stop with this privatized nonsense because making money for a private company by having more people in jail isn't actually a good thing. I might be totally wrong but I don't think the unions would be quite as tough to deal with as they invariably will be in health care, though. The top of the food chain, where the big money is made, yes, but the concept of government employee protections isn't necessarily as big of a drop for them as it will be in health care. Prison guards don't always make all that much. It would be possible to actually improve the working conditions for a lot of them while still saving lots of money by getting out of the privatized tough on crime business.

This is my biggest concern with Kamala Harris as a candidate. The catch is, Republicans won't care about it and she really can't be attacked on it were she to be a candidate. She's also seemed to handle those kinds of allegations reasonably well so far, but were she to win, I'd feel more comfortable if she had a VP candidate that had a track record of being a touch more progressive on crime.

[dckingsfan]

Boom - the Prison Industrial Complex is strong - and it is strong on both sides. You have the businesses that own and/or run prisons and you have the prison guard unions. They are very difficult to take on at the local and state level.

And then you have the "stupid on crime" candidates that run on fear - which is also extremely effective.

It is going to be a tough triangle to break.

I see prisons in a pretty similar way to hospitals - we need to stop with this privatized nonsense because making money for a private company by having more people in jail isn't actually a good thing. I might be totally wrong but I don't think the unions would be quite as tough to deal with as they invariably will be in health care, though. The top of the food chain, where the big money is made, yes, but the concept of government employee protections isn't necessarily as big of a drop for them as it will be in health care. Prison guards don't always make all that much. It would be possible to actually improve the working conditions for a lot of them while still saving lots of money by getting out of the privatized tough on crime business.

This is my biggest concern with Kamala Harris as a candidate. The catch is, Republicans won't care about it and she really can't be attacked on it were she to be a candidate. She's also seemed to handle those kinds of allegations reasonably well so far, but were she to win, I'd feel more comfortable if she had a VP candidate that had a track record of being a touch more progressive on crime.

First, I started out a bit on the - really, we have a problem here? Crime has been going down right? Then Zonk brought up some good points. So I went back and did my research (in CA where I know lobbyists that work on this issue).

Separate prison guards from prison unions and you will better understand the trio that make it happen (tough on crime politicians, companies that run or own prisons and prison unions).

If this becomes a front and center issue - you are right, it will bite Harris.

[pancakes3]

It's never made sense to me that prisons are privatized. Govt cops arresting ppl with govt prosecutors bringing charges in govt courthouses presided over by govt judges only to have incarceration be subcontracted out privately?

[I_Like_Dirt]

Separate prison guards from prison unions and you will better understand the trio that make it happen (tough on crime politicians, companies that run or own prisons and prison unions).

Oh, I agree. Prison unions are more than just the guards and there are serious issues at play there. My only point is that the unions won't be quite as difficult to deal with as health care unions will be, which is like saying it's smaller than the sun - not a term with a whole lot of meaning. Honestly, I think this would be a great testing ground issue to tackle first before really bringing the heat on health care and would provide some learning opportunities for the bigger fight while also potentially accustoming the public at large to the idea of certain parts of the economy being public while others remaining privatized. It won't, though, because it isn't actually seen as a significant issue by as much of the public. Thankfully, things like legalization of marijuana in certain situations will help limit some of the problems but the flipside is it also puts the issue a bit more out of mind.

[queridiculo]

It's never made sense to me that prisons are privatized. Govt cops arresting ppl with govt prosecutors bringing charges in govt courthouses presided over by govt judges only to have incarceration be subcontracted out privately?

Incentivizing an increase in prison population, about as morally reprehensible as it gets.

You don't need to be an economics major to realize that the easiest way for prison corp X to drive share holder value is to lock up more people and ideally for longer sentences.

Is it a surprise that our prison population is at an all time high when crime is at an all time low?

[FAH1223]

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[I_Like_Dirt]

Is it a surprise that our prison population is at an all time high when crime is at an all time low?

Public housing!!!


Where are the anti-socialists when you need them?

[dobrojim]

^Good point but unfortunately one that would clearly be lost on those who need to
understand it most.

[dckingsfan]

It's never made sense to me that prisons are privatized. Govt cops arresting ppl with govt prosecutors bringing charges in govt courthouses presided over by govt judges only to have incarceration be subcontracted out privately?

Incentivizing an increase in prison population, about as morally reprehensible as it gets.

You don't need to be an economics major to realize that the easiest way for prison corp X to drive share holder value is to lock up more people and ideally for longer sentences.

Is it a surprise that our prison population is at an all time high when crime is at an all time low?

This! I will add that the fines that come from the legal system is almost as bad. Another regressive, racist program that is bad economically for our local and state governments.

The stupid on crime folks and the I need revenue folks team up on this one...