Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[nate33]

...But I am also of the mindset you guys should move Beal and start all over.

Too much love for Brad here for that to be practical.

The only Beal trade I'd entertain at the moment is Beal for Ben Simmons. That can't happen until the summer though. And if we did it, we'd also need to trade Wall because Simmons and Wall can't coexist.

[pcbothwel]

...But I am also of the mindset you guys should move Beal and start all over.

Too much love for Brad here for that to be practical.

The only Beal trade I'd entertain at the moment is Beal for Ben Simmons. That can't happen until the summer though. And if we did it, we'd also need to trade Wall because Simmons and Wall can't coexist.

No chance in Hell i move Beal for Simmons straight up.
Beal is more efficient scorer on DOUBLE the usage/output and has a better AST:TOV ratio. His game has no holes... Simmons is a good defender, but gambles too much and absolute liability offensively with his limitations.

With Beal signing the extension, I dont see the great age/contract advantage there was a year ago.
Philly would need to add to that package...

Last issue... I LOVE Beal and what he brings to this team on and off the court. We are rebuilding a brand, not just a team. He works his butt off and improves every year. Simmons is shockingly stagnant in this regard. He seems to be the same player he was 2-3 years ago and is not heading into his mid 20's.

I think Simmons is certainly hampered by Philly/ Embiid, but I worry that his ceiling is relatively low compared to the potential superstar he was touted to be.

[Ruzious]

Too much love for Brad here for that to be practical.

The only Beal trade I'd entertain at the moment is Beal for Ben Simmons. That can't happen until the summer though. And if we did it, we'd also need to trade Wall because Simmons and Wall can't coexist.

No chance in Hell i move Beal for Simmons straight up.
Beal is more efficient scorer on DOUBLE the usage/output and has a better AST:TOV ratio. His game has no holes... Simmons is a good defender, but gambles too much and absolute liability offensively with his limitations.

With Beal signing the extension, I dont see the great age/contract advantage there was a year ago.
Philly would need to add to that package...

Last issue... I LOVE Beal and what he brings to this team on and off the court. We are rebuilding a brand, not just a team. He works his butt off and improves every year. Simmons is shockingly stagnant in this regard. He seems to be the same player he was 2-3 years ago and is not heading into his mid 20's.

I think Simmons is certainly hampered by Philly/ Embiid, but I worry that his ceiling is relatively low compared to the potential superstar he was touted to be.

If you're starting a team, it isn't even a question - gotta take Simmons over Beal. There aren't humans Simmons' size that can do what he does. If he ever develops a 3... game over.

[pcbothwel]

The only Beal trade I'd entertain at the moment is Beal for Ben Simmons. That can't happen until the summer though. And if we did it, we'd also need to trade Wall because Simmons and Wall can't coexist.

No chance in Hell i move Beal for Simmons straight up.
Beal is more efficient scorer on DOUBLE the usage/output and has a better AST:TOV ratio. His game has no holes... Simmons is a good defender, but gambles too much and absolute liability offensively with his limitations.

With Beal signing the extension, I dont see the great age/contract advantage there was a year ago.
Philly would need to add to that package...

Last issue... I LOVE Beal and what he brings to this team on and off the court. We are rebuilding a brand, not just a team. He works his butt off and improves every year. Simmons is shockingly stagnant in this regard. He seems to be the same player he was 2-3 years ago and is not heading into his mid 20's.

I think Simmons is certainly hampered by Philly/ Embiid, but I worry that his ceiling is relatively low compared to the potential superstar he was touted to be.

If you're starting a team, it isn't even a question - gotta take Simmons over Beal. There aren't humans Simmons' size that can do what he does. If he ever develops a 3... game over.

Maybe...But Simmons has shot near 900 FTA and cant even make 60% of those.
Evan Turner, MCW, Exum, Kris Dunn, Aaron Gordon... A lot of big / athletic guys who could handle the ball had that asterisk...didnt work out too well.

[Ruzious]

No chance in Hell i move Beal for Simmons straight up.
Beal is more efficient scorer on DOUBLE the usage/output and has a better AST:TOV ratio. His game has no holes... Simmons is a good defender, but gambles too much and absolute liability offensively with his limitations.

With Beal signing the extension, I dont see the great age/contract advantage there was a year ago.
Philly would need to add to that package...

Last issue... I LOVE Beal and what he brings to this team on and off the court. We are rebuilding a brand, not just a team. He works his butt off and improves every year. Simmons is shockingly stagnant in this regard. He seems to be the same player he was 2-3 years ago and is not heading into his mid 20's.

I think Simmons is certainly hampered by Philly/ Embiid, but I worry that his ceiling is relatively low compared to the potential superstar he was touted to be.

If you're starting a team, it isn't even a question - gotta take Simmons over Beal. There aren't humans Simmons' size that can do what he does. If he ever develops a 3... game over.

Maybe...But Simmons has shot near 900 FTA and cant even make 60% of those.
Evan Turner, MCW, Exum, Kris Dunn, Aaron Gordon... A lot of big / athletic guys who could handle the ball had that asterisk...didnt work out too well.

Aaron Gordon is the only one of those I'd call big and athletic. He's good, but he couldn't begin to play point guard.

[gambitx777]

Ben Simmons is hype and nothing else he's going to be one of the worst contracts in the league if he doesn't get a shot Soon

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[Ruzious]

Not a trade idea but a free agency idea for this coming offseason - Sterling Brown of Milwaukee. He's a swingman averaging 10.6 rebounds per 36, and he's making 37.5% of his 3's. Rumor has it that the Wiz are the worst rebounding team in the NBA. Brown's a player who was at least 20 lbs overweight last season. Now he's in terrific shape, and it's made a big difference in his agility and quickness. How unknown is he? He's the guy that Milwaukee police abused partly because they didn't believe him when he said he was an NBA player. Just a hunch that that experience didn't make him real fond of Milwaukee. I feel like I'm a spy.

[Illmatic12]

The only Beal trade I'd entertain at the moment is Beal for Ben Simmons. That can't happen until the summer though. And if we did it, we'd also need to trade Wall because Simmons and Wall can't coexist.

No chance in Hell i move Beal for Simmons straight up.
Beal is more efficient scorer on DOUBLE the usage/output and has a better AST:TOV ratio. His game has no holes... Simmons is a good defender, but gambles too much and absolute liability offensively with his limitations.

With Beal signing the extension, I dont see the great age/contract advantage there was a year ago.
Philly would need to add to that package...

Last issue... I LOVE Beal and what he brings to this team on and off the court. We are rebuilding a brand, not just a team. He works his butt off and improves every year. Simmons is shockingly stagnant in this regard. He seems to be the same player he was 2-3 years ago and is not heading into his mid 20's.

I think Simmons is certainly hampered by Philly/ Embiid, but I worry that his ceiling is relatively low compared to the potential superstar he was touted to be.

If you're starting a team, it isn't even a question - gotta take Simmons over Beal. There aren't humans Simmons' size that can do what he does. If he ever develops a 3... game over.

Very shortsighted viewpoint is my impression.The red flags surrounding Simmons work ethic/dedication to the game combined with the exorbitant price tag are more than enough to steer me far away.

[Ruzious]

No chance in Hell i move Beal for Simmons straight up.
Beal is more efficient scorer on DOUBLE the usage/output and has a better AST:TOV ratio. His game has no holes... Simmons is a good defender, but gambles too much and absolute liability offensively with his limitations.

With Beal signing the extension, I dont see the great age/contract advantage there was a year ago.
Philly would need to add to that package...

Last issue... I LOVE Beal and what he brings to this team on and off the court. We are rebuilding a brand, not just a team. He works his butt off and improves every year. Simmons is shockingly stagnant in this regard. He seems to be the same player he was 2-3 years ago and is not heading into his mid 20's.

I think Simmons is certainly hampered by Philly/ Embiid, but I worry that his ceiling is relatively low compared to the potential superstar he was touted to be.

If you're starting a team, it isn't even a question - gotta take Simmons over Beal. There aren't humans Simmons' size that can do what he does. If he ever develops a 3... game over.

Very shortsighted viewpoint is my impression.The red flags surrounding Simmons work ethic/dedication to the game combined with the exorbitant price tag are more than enough to steer me far away.

Welp, you're entitled to your opinion, but I think almost every team in the NBA would value Simmons over Beal. Granted, he's off to a slow start, but his first 2 NBA seasons were miles better than Beal's.

[nate33]

Welp, you're entitled to your opinion, but I think almost every team in the NBA would value Simmons over Beal. Granted, he's off to a slow start, but his first 2 NBA seasons were miles better than Beal's.

I don't know about that. I think most win-now teams would prefer Beal. He is more seasoned and his type of game can blend in with most teams seamlessly.

But I agree with you that if you are starting from scratch, Simmons is the better bet. He costs $4M a year less than Beal and is under contract for 2 more years - not to mention that he is 3 years younger.

[Illmatic12]

If you're starting a team, it isn't even a question - gotta take Simmons over Beal. There aren't humans Simmons' size that can do what he does. If he ever develops a 3... game over.

Very shortsighted viewpoint is my impression.The red flags surrounding Simmons work ethic/dedication to the game combined with the exorbitant price tag are more than enough to steer me far away.

Welp, you're entitled to your opinion, but I think almost every team in the NBA would value Simmons over Beal. Granted, he's off to a slow start, but his first 2 NBA seasons were miles better than Beal's.

Agree to disagree , I think many teams (the smart ones) would prefer Beal. Simmons might have more off-court marketing potential in a large market, sure.

[pcbothwel]

Move Bertans, IT, and a BYOD deal all in one?!?.. probably too much, but oh well.

DC Out: Bertans, Ian, IT, McRae
DC In: Batum, Zhaire Smith
Why: With no cap space and nowhere near Lux tax next summer, taking on salary along with moving assets helps expadite rebuild. Batum can be a solid bench wing and can help defensively. 35% shooter from 3, 2:1 AST:TOV ratio, and solid defense is a rotational player and palatable for 1 more year at 27M

CHA Out: Batum, Bacon, CLE 2nd, 2020 1st (Protected for top 12, top 8, top 5)
CHA In: Mahinmi, Mike Scott, McRae
Why: Bottom dwellers for too long. Charlotte hit on PJ Washington and Graham while Rozier, Bridges, and Zeller are rotational players. McRae gives them immediate upgrade over Bacon to make run at 8th seed this year, plus they have 60M in cap room this summer to get two big pieces (Drummond & Derozan?)

PHI Out: Smith, Scott, ATL 2nd, 2022 1st
PHI In: Bertans, IT
Why: They need better shooters at the 1 & 4 and thats what we give them. IT & Bertans would play off of Simmons very well. They also save 8M on next years salary.

We would have 3 2nds in the top 35 next year, which allows us to trade one for a future pick or two to move up into the early 20's. Goal is simple. With 6 first in the next 3 drafts, we establish a pipeline of young players/assets to build the team properly.

[deneem4]

Really wished we traded for Meyers Leonard back when he was negative value with Portland...
Imagine Meyers and bertans at the 4&5...

[payitforward]

The only Beal trade I'd entertain at the moment is Beal for Ben Simmons. That can't happen until the summer though. And if we did it, we'd also need to trade Wall because Simmons and Wall can't coexist.

No chance in Hell i move Beal for Simmons straight up.
Beal is more efficient scorer on DOUBLE the usage/output and has a better AST:TOV ratio. His game has no holes... Simmons is a good defender, but gambles too much and absolute liability offensively with his limitations.

With Beal signing the extension, I dont see the great age/contract advantage there was a year ago.
Philly would need to add to that package...

Last issue... I LOVE Beal and what he brings to this team on and off the court. We are rebuilding a brand, not just a team. He works his butt off and improves every year. Simmons is shockingly stagnant in this regard. He seems to be the same player he was 2-3 years ago and is not heading into his mid 20's.

I think Simmons is certainly hampered by Philly/ Embiid, but I worry that his ceiling is relatively low compared to the potential superstar he was touted to be.

If you're starting a team, it isn't even a question - gotta take Simmons over Beal. There aren't humans Simmons' size that can do what he does. If he ever develops a 3... game over.

Brad's a terrific player & a great guy. He's not on Simmons' level as a player, however. Not even close.

But... we've had this discussion a zillion times.

Who was writing that rebounding is somehow the most overrated stat? It's kind of obvious that scoring deserves that honor!

None of the above is intended as criticism of Bradley Beal -- far from it. But... it will be taken that way, won't it? Just as saying that Rui needs to improve as a rebounder in order to be an outstanding player is taken as criticism of Rui Hachimura.

[prime1time]

Any talk about Ben Simmons for Beal is a non-starter. Simmons' impact is super overrated given the fact that he projects as a bottom 20% shooter for his entire career. To pay Ben Simmons max money would so severely limit our ability to build a team that I find myself shocked every time people bring it up. Career 58% from the ft line. One made 3 his entire career. I'll take my chances with Beal, or trading Beal for young players. But to build a team around Simmons' just sounds silly to me. Simmons' presence so severely limits you in terms of how you construct your team that I wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot pole.

Now, if we could get Simmons' coming off of a disastrous playoff where he gets humbled and is willing to really fix his shooting, I'd consider it. But even then, I'd want Simmmons' and Beal. At the end of the day, there's only so much of a positive impact a player can have when they are an absolutely dreadful shooter. Simmons' is a dreadful shooter. He has shown no signs of improving. And, far from it, he gets angry at people who declare it a weakness. This is not a guy you want leading your team.

We trade Beal for Simmons' and we should prepare to be a perennial lottery team. If Simmons' were on this team he would have already mailed it in. Trading Beal for Simmons smh.

[nzahir]

Move Bertans, IT, and a BYOD deal all in one?!?.. probably too much, but oh well.

DC Out: Bertans, Ian, IT, McRae
DC In: Batum, Zhaire Smith
Why: With no cap space and nowhere near Lux tax next summer, taking on salary along with moving assets helps expadite rebuild. Batum can be a solid bench wing and can help defensively. 35% shooter from 3, 2:1 AST:TOV ratio, and solid defense is a rotational player and palatable for 1 more year at 27M

CHA Out: Batum, Bacon, CLE 2nd, 2020 1st (Protected for top 12, top 8, top 5)
CHA In: Mahinmi, Mike Scott, McRae
Why: Bottom dwellers for too long. Charlotte hit on PJ Washington and Graham while Rozier, Bridges, and Zeller are rotational players. McRae gives them immediate upgrade over Bacon to make run at 8th seed this year, plus they have 60M in cap room this summer to get two big pieces (Drummond & Derozan?)

PHI Out: Smith, Scott, ATL 2nd, 2022 1st
PHI In: Bertans, IT
Why: They need better shooters at the 1 & 4 and thats what we give them. IT & Bertans would play off of Simmons very well. They also save 8M on next years salary.

We would have 3 2nds in the top 35 next year, which allows us to trade one for a future pick or two to move up into the early 20's. Goal is simple. With 6 first in the next 3 drafts, we establish a pipeline of young players/assets to build the team properly.

Poor deal for you guys I think. You have to take on Batum's deal??

LAL fan here. I have watched some bertans and tape this year on him and have always thought he was good with SA, could you guys see him being a 3rd scoring option on a contender, or not that good?

My worry with Bertans is 2 things come playoff time:
1) Quicker or craftier guards will iso him once he is switched onto them. Can he keep up with them? If you are a defensive liability in the playoffs, good teams will really expose it
2) His offense does seem mostly 1 dimensional. While he is an unbelievable shooter, smart defensive teams will not let him get so open as easily as most of these garbage regular season teams or teams that aren't scouting and planning like they do come playoff time.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Move Bertans, IT, and a BYOD deal all in one?!?.. probably too much, but oh well.

DC Out: Bertans, Ian, IT, McRae
DC In: Batum, Zhaire Smith
Why: With no cap space and nowhere near Lux tax next summer, taking on salary along with moving assets helps expadite rebuild. Batum can be a solid bench wing and can help defensively. 35% shooter from 3, 2:1 AST:TOV ratio, and solid defense is a rotational player and palatable for 1 more year at 27M

CHA Out: Batum, Bacon, CLE 2nd, 2020 1st (Protected for top 12, top 8, top 5)
CHA In: Mahinmi, Mike Scott, McRae
Why: Bottom dwellers for too long. Charlotte hit on PJ Washington and Graham while Rozier, Bridges, and Zeller are rotational players. McRae gives them immediate upgrade over Bacon to make run at 8th seed this year, plus they have 60M in cap room this summer to get two big pieces (Drummond & Derozan?)

PHI Out: Smith, Scott, ATL 2nd, 2022 1st
PHI In: Bertans, IT
Why: They need better shooters at the 1 & 4 and thats what we give them. IT & Bertans would play off of Simmons very well. They also save 8M on next years salary.

We would have 3 2nds in the top 35 next year, which allows us to trade one for a future pick or two to move up into the early 20's. Goal is simple. With 6 first in the next 3 drafts, we establish a pipeline of young players/assets to build the team properly.

Poor deal for you guys I think. You have to take on Batum's deal??

LAL fan here. I have watched some bertans and tape this year on him and have always thought he was good with SA, could you guys see him being a 3rd scoring option on a contender, or not that good?

My worry with Bertans is 2 things come playoff time:
1) Quicker or craftier guards will iso him once he is switched onto them. Can he keep up with them? If you are a defensive liability in the playoffs, good teams will really expose it
2) His offense does seem mostly 1 dimensional. While he is an unbelievable shooter, smart defensive teams will not let him get so open as easily as most of these garbage regular season teams or teams that aren't scouting and planning like they do come playoff time.

Bertans has his limitations but he is better in non shooting components of the game than I thought. When teams close him hard, he’s adept at getting to and finishing at the rim. He works really hard on defense... on a good team, with a good scheme and surrounded by a couple of plus defenders, he’d be fine.

And his shooting. Oh his shooting. It’s like strawberries on a summer evening.

[pcbothwel]

Move Bertans, IT, and a BYOD deal all in one?!?.. probably too much, but oh well.

DC Out: Bertans, Ian, IT, McRae
DC In: Batum, Zhaire Smith
Why: With no cap space and nowhere near Lux tax next summer, taking on salary along with moving assets helps expadite rebuild. Batum can be a solid bench wing and can help defensively. 35% shooter from 3, 2:1 AST:TOV ratio, and solid defense is a rotational player and palatable for 1 more year at 27M

CHA Out: Batum, Bacon, CLE 2nd, 2020 1st (Protected for top 12, top 8, top 5)
CHA In: Mahinmi, Mike Scott, McRae
Why: Bottom dwellers for too long. Charlotte hit on PJ Washington and Graham while Rozier, Bridges, and Zeller are rotational players. McRae gives them immediate upgrade over Bacon to make run at 8th seed this year, plus they have 60M in cap room this summer to get two big pieces (Drummond & Derozan?)

PHI Out: Smith, Scott, ATL 2nd, 2022 1st
PHI In: Bertans, IT
Why: They need better shooters at the 1 & 4 and thats what we give them. IT & Bertans would play off of Simmons very well. They also save 8M on next years salary.

We would have 3 2nds in the top 35 next year, which allows us to trade one for a future pick or two to move up into the early 20's. Goal is simple. With 6 first in the next 3 drafts, we establish a pipeline of young players/assets to build the team properly.

Poor deal for you guys I think. You have to take on Batum's deal??

LAL fan here. I have watched some bertans and tape this year on him and have always thought he was good with SA, could you guys see him being a 3rd scoring option on a contender, or not that good?

My worry with Bertans is 2 things come playoff time:
1) Quicker or craftier guards will iso him once he is switched onto them. Can he keep up with them? If you are a defensive liability in the playoffs, good teams will really expose it
2) His offense does seem mostly 1 dimensional. While he is an unbelievable shooter, smart defensive teams will not let him get so open as easily as most of these garbage regular season teams or teams that aren't scouting and planning like they do come playoff time.

Bertans has his limitations but he is better in non shooting components of the game than I thought. When teams close him hard, he’s adept at getting to and finishing at the rim. He works really hard on defense... on a good team, with a good scheme and surrounded by a couple of plus defenders, he’d be fine.

And his shooting. Oh his shooting. It’s like strawberries on a summer evening.

Agreed... Im sure the same could be said about Korver, but he was so quick with his release and coming off screens that he was unstoppable... Or you jeopardize your defense in other areas to stop him

[nate33]

Move Bertans, IT, and a BYOD deal all in one?!?.. probably too much, but oh well.

DC Out: Bertans, Ian, IT, McRae
DC In: Batum, Zhaire Smith
Why: With no cap space and nowhere near Lux tax next summer, taking on salary along with moving assets helps expadite rebuild. Batum can be a solid bench wing and can help defensively. 35% shooter from 3, 2:1 AST:TOV ratio, and solid defense is a rotational player and palatable for 1 more year at 27M

CHA Out: Batum, Bacon, CLE 2nd, 2020 1st (Protected for top 12, top 8, top 5)
CHA In: Mahinmi, Mike Scott, McRae
Why: Bottom dwellers for too long. Charlotte hit on PJ Washington and Graham while Rozier, Bridges, and Zeller are rotational players. McRae gives them immediate upgrade over Bacon to make run at 8th seed this year, plus they have 60M in cap room this summer to get two big pieces (Drummond & Derozan?)

PHI Out: Smith, Scott, ATL 2nd, 2022 1st
PHI In: Bertans, IT
Why: They need better shooters at the 1 & 4 and thats what we give them. IT & Bertans would play off of Simmons very well. They also save 8M on next years salary.

We would have 3 2nds in the top 35 next year, which allows us to trade one for a future pick or two to move up into the early 20's. Goal is simple. With 6 first in the next 3 drafts, we establish a pipeline of young players/assets to build the team properly.

I think the Philly portion of that trade is feasible. They really need shooting and might pay through the nose to get it.

I don't think Charlotte is all that motivated to sacrifice a first to dump Batum a year early though. They're already $35M below the luxtax with Batum on the roster. Is it really better to be $60M below the cap in a year when there are no good free agents? It's certainly a bad move for a competent franchise with a long term vision. But Charlotte is run by Michael Jordan so there's that. It's worth a phone call I guess.

All that said, I seriously doubt the Wizards are willing to trade 2020 wins for future picks. My guess is that Beal signed his extension with the understanding that the rebuilding phase is a one-year deal only. If we do make such a trade, I think we should go ahead and look to trade Beal and Wall.

[pcbothwel]

Agreed Nate.
Simple swap. IT to Philly for Bolden/Zhaire/ATL 2nd (They can pick which asset) and call it a day.

Hell, Make it IT & McRae for Bolden, ATL 2nd, and filler (Burke?) and both teams come out ahead. Philly gets scoring & experience for dirt cheap... we get incremental, yet positive assets in our Rebuild/Reload.