Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota

[AceDegenerate]

lol, I bet the idiot Grunfeld would made the same deal had we had the #2 pick as well..

smh in disgust @ this pathetic organization.

[queridiculo]

Just root for another team then already you negative nancies.

[BanndNDC]

I take back any good things I said about the trade. horrible, horrible deal. unless you freakin know that rubio wont be there you dont make that damn trade. fire EG!

[mohammed10]

I take back any good things I said about the trade. horrible, horrible deal. unless you freakin know that rubio wont be there you dont make that damn trade. fire EG!

Welcome to the team

[AceDegenerate]

Just root for another team then already you negative nancies.

As if the Wizards can afford to cast-off fans. 90% of the Verizon Center is already cheering for the opposition.

[mohammed10]

Just root for another team then already you negative nancies.

As if the Wizards can afford to cast-off fans. 90% of the Verizon Center is already cheering for the opposition.

Absolute classic post. I nominate this one for the Wizboard Hall of Fame

[fishercob]

I go back and forth on whether it should be Miller or Foye starting at the two. I'm leaning toward Foye because I simply don't see Miller being able to keep up with starting 2-guards.

Plus, if you look at each player's splits, it seems Foye is better at playing off the ball:

Per 48 Minutes

06-07
As PG - 48.4 eFG%, 5.3 Reb, 5.8 Ast, 4.2 TO, 20.1 Pts, 13.5 PER
As SG - 48.5 eFG%, 6 Reb, 6.3 Ast, 3.5 TO, 22.8 Pts, 16.9 PER

08-09
As PG - 43 eFG%, 4.4 Reb, 7.4 Ast, 3.9 TO, 19.6 Pts, 12.3 PER
As SG - 48.5 eFG%, 3.8 Reb, 4.8 Ast, 2.2 TO, 23.2 Pts, 17 PER


I did not include 07-08 because of how few games he played and how few minutes he played at the 2.

It's not a lot of data to go on, but it would seem Foye is much better at playing off the ball. Miller has been equally good from both the 2 and 3 spot, though he's been better from the 3 spot the last couple of years.

Defensively, here's what Hollinger said in Foye's scouting report before last year:

Foye is a strong defender at the point -- he's big for the position but also can move his feet and cut off penetration. Because of his strength he can also defend shooting guards, and as he gains more experience he should be an above-average defender at both positions.

It's worth noting that Foye actually defended the other team's power forward in college.

People also need to consider that players often times become better defenders once they move to a better team. Ray Allen was a putrid defender in Seattle, but suddenly became average in Boston because he played with more effort as the stakes were higher. Same with Rashard Lewis when he moved to Orlando.

Chauncey Billups, Jerry Stackhouse, and Jason Kidd were all on terrible defensive teams in their first 2 or 3 years and they suddenly became great defensive players (or good in Stackhouse's case) when they moved on to better teams. I haven't seen many reports stating Foye's defense was a liability and I think many are using the fact that Minnesota was a bad defensive team to imply that Foye is a bad defender when that might not be the case.

That's not to say the Wizards will be a good defensive team, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities for this team to move into that 15 - 20 range defensively as long as Haywood stays healthy. I do think Saunders' match-up zone scheme will help mask some of the team's defensive inefficiencies.

Wow! Nice work, NoVaO. Those are some eye-opening stats. I had no idea Foye was THAT much better at SG. If Foye can post a PER in the 17 range while playing at least average defense, then maybe I'll have to reconsider my take on this deal.

nate, here's some more reason for optimism on Foye. A couple days ago I posted a list of players who had statsitcally similar years to Foye as a rookie and came with some good names like Mayo, Hersey Hawkins and Sprewell. I felt like Foye's 2 subsequent seasons had to be somewhat discounted because of his injury and Minny's overall suckitude. But for the hell I just ran some more numbers

Through 3 years, Foye has a PER of 13.6 and a TS% of .524 . So I searched for gaurds in the 3pt era between 6'3" and 6'5" who had PER between 13 and 14 and TS% between .515 and .535 over their first three seasons. 16 guys: http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/ ... i?id=NeKIM

Joining Foye on that list are names like Chauncey Billups, Steve Nash, Kenny Smith, Chris Childs, Mike Dickerson and Vinny Del Fuego. There are some less inspiring names, but that list shows reason for hope.

[McGeeNArenas]

Just root for another team then already you negative nancies.

As if the Wizards can afford to cast-off fans. 90% of the Verizon Center is already cheering for the opposition.

I know right.

In reply to the rooting for another team, that's not a bad idea. I just might....I will give this team this season to see if theres any light at the end of this dark dead tunnel we're currently on. If not, I'm not going to be loyal to a franchise this dumb or careless.

How bad is it when you could have gotten Amare for the 5th pick had the Suns known Rubio was available and would be mentored by Nash but no we had to pull the deal for FOYE because it wouldn't be there 3 days later.

Morons.

[fishercob]

double post

[LyricalRico]

I take back any good things I said about the trade. horrible, horrible deal. unless you freakin know that rubio wont be there you dont make that damn trade. fire EG!

Welcome to the team

Just remember that if you ever get to 5 or more you CANNOT use "Wizboard [Number]" as your name. That will always be for the group of brave posters who got EJ fired.

[80sballboy]

Wow. I don't get what Minnesota is trying to do unless they are making another deal. Rubio can't shoot yet and Flynn is a point with some shooting ability. I think Rubio has a chance to be something special, but it will take him a year or two to get stronger because he will BE TORHCED on defense.

I said from the beginning we should trade the pick and I think we could have gotten a little more had we waited and if Rubio was there. His agent said he wasn't willing to play for Washington alongside Gil, he needs the ball in his hands. He was right.

We can talk about Foye, Miller, Young, DeBrick until we are blue in the face. The future of this franchise rests on Gil's knee. If he gets hurt again, we'll be mediocre to bad and if it happens again next season, you might as well break up the rest of the big 3 and try to build around Foye, Critt, Javale, Blatche, DMac and Young.

[Wizardspride]

How bad is it when you could have gotten Amare for the 5th pick had the Suns known Rubio was available and would be mentored by Nash but no we had to pull the deal for FOYE because it wouldn't be there 3 days later.

Morons.

I'm sure you're aware of the fact that the Suns wanted Butler to be included in any deal...right?

[hands11]

I take back any good things I said about the trade. horrible, horrible deal. unless you freakin know that rubio wont be there you dont make that damn trade. fire EG!

Welcome to the team

RIght and all 15 player we would have had signed.

We couldn't use the pick.

Now you can say it was EGs fault that we had so many players signed but there were lots of decisions that got us to that point over many year so that would be huge 20-20 hind sight.

[McGeeNArenas]

Wow. I don't get what Minnesota is trying to do unless they are making another deal. Rubio can't shoot yet and Flynn is a point with some shooting ability. I think Rubio has a chance to be something special, but it will take him a year or two to get stronger because he will BE TORHCED on defense.

I said from the beginning we should trade the pick and I think we could have gotten a little more had we waited and if Rubio was there. His agent said he wasn't willing to play for Washington alongside Gil, he needs the ball in his hands. He was right.

We can talk about Foye, Miller, Young, DeBrick until we are blue in the face. The future of this franchise rests on Gil's knee. If he gets hurt again, we'll be mediocre to bad and if it happens again next season, you might as well break up the rest of the big 3 and try to build around Foye, Critt, Javale, Blatche, DMac and Young.

Besides Mcgee, that sounds like a horrible team to build around.

[McGeeNArenas]

How bad is it when you could have gotten Amare for the 5th pick had the Suns known Rubio was available and would be mentored by Nash but no we had to pull the deal for FOYE because it wouldn't be there 3 days later.

Morons.

I'm sure you're aware of the fact that the Suns wanted Butler to be included in any deal...right?

WOW no way.....


seriously, who cares? Throw in Butler.....He isn't anything special to be huffing and puffing about when you have a chance to get a 26 year old great PF.

[dandridge 10]

Kind of funny how all the positive vibe just went out the window. The fact of the matter is, the Wizards were unwilling to take a risk. Because of that, they lost out on the opportunity to draft Rubio. Not necessarily to keep him, but to fetch something better than what they got with Minn. And, in the end, if they couldn't, they still could have dealt Rubio to Minnesota for what they got. Like I said before, the problem that I have with this organization is that they always seem to play it safe, instead of swinging for the fence. While I don't think the Wizards are necessarily "content for mediocrity" (I don't want to offend Fish again ), but its the play safe attitude of the Wizards that lead to mediocrity.

[yungal07]

How bad is it when you could have gotten Amare for the 5th pick had the Suns known Rubio was available and would be mentored by Nash but no we had to pull the deal for FOYE because it wouldn't be there 3 days later.

Morons.

I'm sure you're aware of the fact that the Suns wanted Butler to be included in any deal...right?

WOW no way.....


seriously, who cares? Throw in Butler.....He isn't anything special to be huffing and puffing about when you have a chance to get a 26 year old great PF.

LMAO...so Butler is a throw in in trades now?

God, I thank the basketball gos that some of you are NOT the Wizards GM. Seriously.

[BanndNDC]

I take back any good things I said about the trade. horrible, horrible deal. unless you freakin know that rubio wont be there you dont make that damn trade. fire EG!

Welcome to the team

RIght and all 15 player we would have had signed.

We couldn't use the pick.

Now you can say it was EGs fault that we had so many players signed but there were lots of decisions that got us to that point over many year so that would be huge 20-20 hind sight.

who cares. just release/buy out etan, james or pech. hell, you know the knicks would have taken the hughes for etan/james trade eventually and if need be we could just have thrown in that 2nd round pick. you dont pass up somebody with true natural court vision because you have three absolutely worthless scrubs on the roster with one year left on their contract. at the very least we could have extorted something from minnesota (like making them take stevenson and giving us the 18th where you just know dejuan blair is going to fall).

[McGeeNArenas]

LMAO...so Butler is a throw in in trades now?

God, I thank the basketball gos that some of you are NOT the Wizards GM. Seriously.


When you're talking about Amare, yes he is.

yeah be happy that some of us who have balls on this board are not the GM. You pussys love this mediocre, playing it safe team and look where its gotten us.

Its this pansy attitude that you people have that EG shares and because of it, we're guard heavy, head for an early playoff exit and don't have the services of the most offensively dominating big man in basketball.

[yungal07]

LMAO...so Butler is a throw in in trades now?

God, I thank the basketball gos that some of you are NOT the Wizards GM. Seriously.


When you're talking about Amare, yes he is.

yeah be happy that some of us who have balls on this board are not the GM. You pussys love this mediocre, playing it safe team and look where its gotten us.

Its this pansy attitude that you people have that EG shares and because of it, we're guard heavy, head for an early playoff exit and don't have the services of the most offensively dominating big man in basketball.

Cool dude. Why don't you go root for the Suns then? I mean honestly, how can a team with one of the most dominating big man in basketball not win a championship, let alone not make the playoffs?

Oh wait...