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Official Trade Thread XV: 12/22/10 - 5/3/11

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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#561 » by nate33 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:54 pm

fishercob wrote:Oh, I see. Free agency. Sure, but it depends on contract terms. I also don't anticipate a free agency signing period this summer. But I'm starting to get confident enough in Lewis/Howard/Young/Shakur that I'd dump Hiny for expirings. Shame about that injury....

If things work out, Hinrich will have time to heal while Shakur gets two consecutive 10-day contracts. In 20 days, we should know whether or not Shakur is an NBA-caliber backup PG. If so, hopefully Hinrich will be healthy enough to be traded.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#562 » by fishercob » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:58 pm

I read recently (no idea as to it's veracity) that the Clips would trade Kaman if they could land a SF. I have no interest in Kaman, but wonder if this is any statement on the Clips' assessment of Aminu.

I was shocked to learn that after shooting 24% from 3 over his two years at Wake, Aminu is shooting 38% (35 - 93) from 3 as a 20 year old rookie. At 6'9 215, he has the potential to be that "3 and D" SF that we want to grow with Wall.

Any idea as to how we might steal this guy? I'm thinking I'd want to use Hinrich (and Booker?) to help get LAC the SF that can contribute more now. If they're smart, they'd just wait for Aminu. But someone once told me that the Clippers are known to be....not smart....from time to time.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#563 » by verbal8 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:10 pm

fishercob wrote:I read recently (no idea as to it's veracity) that the Clips would trade Kaman if they could land a SF. I have no interest in Kaman, but wonder if this is any statement on the Clips' assessment of Aminu.

I was shocked to learn that after shooting 24% from 3 over his two years at Wake, Aminu is shooting 38% (35 - 93) from 3 as a 20 year old rookie. At 6'9 215, he has the potential to be that "3 and D" SF that we want to grow with Wall.

Any idea as to how we might steal this guy? I'm thinking I'd want to use Hinrich (and Booker?) to help get LAC the SF that can contribute more now. If they're smart, they'd just wait for Aminu. But someone once told me that the Clippers are known to be....not smart....from time to time.


A package of Hinrich, Josh Howard and Booker in exchange for Aminu, Foye and Gomes might have been tempting if Howard and Hinrich were healthy.

I don't think any rational team, would go for the deal, but I think the Clippers may think they need some vet help and if healthy Hinrich and Howard would be short-term upgrades.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#564 » by DallasShalDune » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:12 pm

I'd trade Hinrich, Booker, and a 2nd rounder for Aminu, for sure. Saying that, I've liked what Shard has given us this year. Aminu would be a quality backup and replacement though, since Shard is in his 30s, isn't he?
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#565 » by fishercob » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:22 pm

How's this:

Clips trade: Kaman, Aminu
Clips get: Gerald Wallace, Yi

Bobs trade: Wallace, Nazr
Bobs get: Kaman, Blatche

Wiz trade: Blatche, Yi
Wiz get: Aminu, Nazr

ehhhhhhhhhhhhh

Edit: what if we get a future first from Cha in this too?
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#566 » by theboomking » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:23 pm

dangermouse wrote:As much as I think Wilson Chandler would excel here, I dont think its worth paying for him even if we had the money. We have Lewis to hold down that position, and we should be targetting Jared Sullinger in the draft, or if hes gone, Terrence Jones. Jones would be great to pair with Wall, and Lewis would be a good mentor to him.

If we manage to get high enough to get Sullinger, we could trade Blatche, probably for a later pick + more. With money saved (i dont know wether it would be enough), we could go after a guy like Jeff Green, instead of Wilson. I'm of the opinion Green has the same problem in OKC as Lewis did in ORL, being played the majority of his minutes out of position. I think Green could put up good numbers playing solely at SF, and if he was allowed to develop naturally instead of being force-fit into PF, he would probably be putting up Wilson's numbers, maybe even better. Again, he would benefit from Lewis' mentoring. Right now he should be something like Lewis is playing for us, worse 3pt shooting but with better defense. Anyway, hes a Georgetown guy, and maybe he would like to play with the young Wizards and sign here for a little less than what some other teams desperate for a SF would.


I would agree with you about Lewis except for the fact that he is going to be 33 in 2012 and Chandler will be 26. By his own admission, Lewis' knees have been holding him back of late. How is he going to look in 2 years? Chandler is shooting just was well as Lewis from 3 point range this year, is better in transition, is the superior defender, and is younger. Chandler, I believe, is also a much more complete player than Jeff Green.

I would be okay with Sullinger though, especially if we can surround him with some length, especially at the 5. That would mean either keeping an improved JaVale at the 5, or finding someone in the Tyson Chandler mold. That way we get a boost in rebounding and basketball IQ, without taking too big a hit on defense.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#567 » by kirubel94 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:56 pm

i really think paul george is going to be something special in the NBA, we need to make a trade for this guy, maybe we can put a blatche package and trade for him.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#568 » by nate33 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:17 pm

kirubel94 wrote:i really think paul george is going to be something special in the NBA, we need to make a trade for this guy, maybe we can put a blatche package and trade for him.

As a general rule, when you consider any young rookie to be "something special", you can be damn sure that their own team also thinks the same thing. You'll never obtain them without overpaying. That goes for George, Aminu, Love and whomever else.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#569 » by nate33 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:29 pm

It's really kind of tough for me to get very excited about any trades these days. The problem is, our team is pretty well-balanced right now. Normally, for a trade to look good for both teams, both teams need to give up a player where they're redundant, and receive a player that fills a need. Either that, or you need to trade a player that's not of the same general age group as your core, and get back another pick/prospect that's the same age as your core. (i.e. trading establlished vets for prospects in our case, with the other side willing to give us picks/prospects for our vets)

Unfortunately, with the Wizards, there are no glaring redundancies and no gaping holes to fill. The team is pretty balanced right now. There is no one spot that needs desperately to be addressed. We just need to get incrementally better at all positions. Likewise, we aren't in a position to trade a good young prospect for an established vet with lesser upside because we're rebuilding. And we don't have many established vets whom we can trade for prospects. Lewis is unmovable because of his contract. Yi, Thornton and Armstrong aren't good enough for any team to sacrifice value for them when they can be obtained as free agents this offseason.

The only guys whom we can even contemplate moving for value are Hinrich and Howard. And both are hurt. Howard might conceivably get healthy and be worth a 2nd round pick from a contender. Hinrich probably won't break back much more than an expiring contract and maybe some cash. Whoop de do. Our only real trade asset is our willingness to take on extra salary.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#570 » by Ruzious » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:32 pm

nate33 wrote:
kirubel94 wrote:i really think paul george is going to be something special in the NBA, we need to make a trade for this guy, maybe we can put a blatche package and trade for him.

As a general rule, when you consider any young rookie to be "something special", you can be damn sure that their own team also thinks the same thing. You'll never obtain them without overpaying. That goes for George, Aminu, Love and whomever else.

Yup, they know when they have someone good, young, and cheap. And when 3 quarters of the teams call them asking to trade for them (which probably happens), that really gives them a clue.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#571 » by LyricalRico » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:41 pm

fishercob wrote:How's this:

Clips trade: Kaman, Aminu
Clips get: Gerald Wallace, Yi

Bobs trade: Wallace, Nazr
Bobs get: Kaman, Blatche

Wiz trade: Blatche, Yi
Wiz get: Aminu, Nazr

ehhhhhhhhhhhhh

Edit: what if we get a future first from Cha in this too?


:nod:

I'll take that all day long for the Wiz. Like it for the Bobs, too. If anything, I can see the Clips wanting something else from Charlotte.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#572 » by fishercob » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:57 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
fishercob wrote:How's this:

Clips trade: Kaman, Aminu
Clips get: Gerald Wallace, Yi

Bobs trade: Wallace, Nazr
Bobs get: Kaman, Blatche

Wiz trade: Blatche, Yi
Wiz get: Aminu, Nazr

ehhhhhhhhhhhhh

Edit: what if we get a future first from Cha in this too?


:nod:

I'll take that all day long for the Wiz. Like it for the Bobs, too. If anything, I can see the Clips wanting something else from Charlotte.


I thought about it and don't think CHA would want Dray with Tyrus and Diaw already. I added Memphis (had them send Mayo and Allen to Cha for Blatche and Henderson) and put it on the trade board.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#573 » by LyricalRico » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:24 pm

^ That Memphis angle is a good one. I was also looking at 3-ways, but trying to move Diaw. Charlotte was rumored to be interested in Rip Hamilton this season, so...

Wizards trade: Blatche and Thornton
Wizards receive: Mohammed and Aminu

Clippers trade: Kaman and Aminu
Clippers receive: Wallace, Najera, and CHA/DET seconds

Pistons trade: Hamilton and second
Pistons receive: Diaw and Thornton

Bobcats trade: Wallace, Diaw, Mohammed, Najera, and second
Bobcats receive: Kaman, Hamilton, and Blatche

TRADE ID 5822869

Charlotte completely re-shapes their lineup with more size and scoring. Detroit helps their long-term cap situation. The Clippers take another step towards "win-now" mode. Washington dumps Blatche for a SF prospect who has shown some promise.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#574 » by pcbothwel » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:27 am

^^^ I wish, Blatche needs to go. My hope is we can trade him and Hinrich before next season and make some use of Thorton's productivity and expiring before the deadline.
Shakur is showing me enough potential for depth that allows me to be more comfortable trading kirk (even though I like what he brings and dont want to simply give him away)
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#575 » by Dat2U » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:05 am

I know it goes against the Wizards rebuilding plan but I'd take Gerald Wallace if I could get him for a package that included Blatche. A Wallace/Lewis combo would work well at the 3/4. And Wallace probably retains better trade value long term over Blatche even though he's older (28 yrs old). I wonder would a Blatche/Howard package for Wallace would work?

Only real drawback with adding Wallace is that he probably mucks up our plans for a high lottery pick this year b/c we'd probably be pretty competitive with him in the starting lineup.

PF Rashard Lewis / Trevor Booker / Yi Jianlian
SF Gerald Wallace / Al Thornton
CE Javale McGee / Kevin Seraphin / Hilton Armstrong / Hamady N'Diaye
SG Nick Young / Cartier Martin
PG John Wall / Kirby Hinrich / Mustafa Shakur
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#576 » by Hoopalotta » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:56 am

nate33 wrote:It's really kind of tough for me to get very excited about any trades these days. The problem is, our team is pretty well-balanced right now. Normally, for a trade to look good for both teams, both teams need to give up a player where they're redundant, and receive a player that fills a need. Either that, or you need to trade a player that's not of the same general age group as your core, and get back another pick/prospect that's the same age as your core. (i.e. trading establlished vets for prospects in our case, with the other side willing to give us picks/prospects for our vets)

Unfortunately, with the Wizards, there are no glaring redundancies and no gaping holes to fill. The team is pretty balanced right now. There is no one spot that needs desperately to be addressed. We just need to get incrementally better at all positions. Likewise, we aren't in a position to trade a good young prospect for an established vet with lesser upside because we're rebuilding. And we don't have many established vets whom we can trade for prospects. Lewis is unmovable because of his contract. Yi, Thornton and Armstrong aren't good enough for any team to sacrifice value for them when they can be obtained as free agents this offseason.

The only guys whom we can even contemplate moving for value are Hinrich and Howard. And both are hurt. Howard might conceivably get healthy and be worth a 2nd round pick from a contender. Hinrich probably won't break back much more than an expiring contract and maybe some cash. Whoop de do. Our only real trade asset is our willingness to take on extra salary.


I think this is exactly correct with the possible exceptions being mostly what you mentioned at the end:

1) I wouldn't poo-poo the idea of a Hinrich for expirings trade that opens up the potential for something in a BOYD on the other side of the lockout. Hard to project, but there could be something there in an absorption trade, though even in shedding Hinrich, W-Chandler and J-Green type guys are probably out of our price range anyway.
2) We might not be looking at having all that much cap space in the summer of 2012 depending on a few things, so I'd be open to a bad 2013 contract if we're projecting to have, say, $7 million or less available at that time. The same reasoning works for Hinrich being traded next year as an expiring for a bad 2013 contract.
3) a cash saving or cash neutral trade; very tough to pull off in a way that helps our talent base given our trade pieces.

Other than those possibilities, I don't see anything either. The problem is being in position to make follow up moves in relation to the cap. To me, the answer to the "hey, should we go after established-player-X?" queries is pretty much "no" unless player-X is early in on his rookie deal; unfortunately, as mentioned previously, no one is going to dump a promising player early in on his rookie deal, so said talk is well nigh wheel spinning.

Basically, we need to either perform well in the draft while developing from within and/or calibrate things to where we have a specific moment where we can capitalize on a nice turnip patch of cap space and cook the upward trajectory with a decisive stroke (could be a signing, could be a consolidation trade). Ideally, it would be a bit of both, but a rational plan would be centered on those twin columns with proper execution being in the timing and the timing being contingent on an appreciation for the incentives involved in patience.

Right now, there's a few things converging to keep us from proper flexibility and really overruling a lot of options:

A) Rashard's mammoth contract (it is not likely to be $10 million in the last year either; that's the absolute minimum if he missed all of his performance incentives)
B) Nick's probable contract extension
C) Dray's contract
D) McGee's probable contract extension

Now, if we could work a buyout with Rashard to where all the money is trimmed off his partially guaranteed year (or if it's a super Allan Houston cap clearing amnesty provision) or we trade one of those homegrown guys for a cheaper option who's earlier on his rookie deal, that changes things, but if we're staying the course, we're more than a bit hog-tied. We're basically cheap, but it's not the same thing as being flexible. If Young gets the extension I think he's going to get ($7 million), we're not even going to have all that much cap space in the summer of 2012 either, so then you're looking at parsing things down to skeleton crew mode until the summer of 2013.

A lot of trades posted here now are consolidation trades, but it seems to me that we're too early in the process to expect to slap a semi-respectable difference maker onto a 25 win squad and have anything better than what tops out as a right pearly oyster of an early-ouster club. We're not one player away; we're especially not "one player who's actually available in a realistic trade" away. That situation is compounded based on the cap log jam above as consolidation trades almost always bring in veterans who make good money. We want a consolidation trade or a decisive free agent acquisition, but we want it later when we aren't an outright B-ball-debacle. If we add someone who's effectively spendy now, we've basically arrived at our final destination give or take a draft home-run in the mid round (I have no real faith in that working out, BTW).

What all that means is that anything other than a BOYD or cash shedding move in the short term is likely getting ahead of things and doesn't fit with a strategic vision. I also would come down very strongly against free agent acquisitions of the piddling variety if the money is long term enough to overlap with what would have been a bigger pool down the road. If you have $3 million available now, but you'll have $11 million next year, don't spend the $3 million on a multi year deal and turn the next year money into $7.75 million. That would be settling before we have to, which is fundamentally a no-no. It's very rare when teams dip into their cash in a slap-dash, shake-here/shake there manner and come away with something that doesn't sniff of Johan Petro. So, I say "no quality backups" on long term deals for now; not when we might not even have more than two above average starters.

Unless a long term opportunity presents itself, the best course of action seems to be the very boring option of doing nothing and patiently plugging away.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#577 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:51 pm

[
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... age01.html

Wallace might be injured. His PER of 13.8 this season and his defense are well off what he has done in past seasons.

I would not do this because Blatche is 24, near-seven feet tall, and he is signed to a cheap deal for many years. I would instead get a coach who will bench Blatche and make a sixth man before trading older, smaller, and potentially injured for young, big, and cheaply signed.

Blatche is not the problem. He's like a spoiled kid right now. The parents give him too much--they made the monster. I would rather see him play less when he's off his game and playing selfishly. Too many minutes of "bad" Blatche is the problem. Limiting him to 20 minutes for a few games might motivate Andray to focus better on becoming more efficient.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#578 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:00 pm

pcbothwel wrote:^^^ I wish, Blatche needs to go. My hope is we can trade him and Hinrich before next season and make some use of Thorton's productivity and expiring before the deadline.
Shakur is showing me enough potential for depth that allows me to be more comfortable trading kirk (even though I like what he brings and dont want to simply give him away)


I totally agree on Shakur.

I think Flip needs to give Blatche the bench treatment on nights when he doesn't rebound and when he doesn't pass the ball. Booker and Seraphin need to get more of his minutes. Blatche has it in his mind that he's a great go-to player. He is not.

I believe Andray is hurting the team some nights, but helps others. Dude needs to stop jacking and to pass more, rebound, and let the game come to him. I just wish Saunders would bench him longer.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#579 » by LyricalRico » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:21 pm

Thought I'd bring up Blatche+Hinrich for Zach Randolph again. I'm also looking for other options for that package.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XV 

Post#580 » by TGW » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:40 pm

LyricalRico wrote:Thought I'd bring up Blatche+Hinrich for Zach Randolph again. I'm also looking for other options for that package.


I was thinking David Lee, who is the anti-Blatche. He's paid way too much money for too long, and he plays absolutely no defense, but he rebounds and scores about as well as any other big in the league. Good team player, and I think in the right circumstances he could be a decent team defender ala Rip. On GS, he's just exposed because of their system.
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