Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong

[TGW]

I just wanna know if Im a real fan with all the money Ive spent on the team

Money doesn't determine how true of a fan someone. Someone who doesn't go to the games or buy merchandise can be a diehard fan while other corporate guys who buy tickets to the game frequently may not even know who's on the team currently.

Somebody tapping away on the Internet doesn't get to decide how "true" a fan another person is any more than some schmuck running for Vice President can declare some people "real Americans" and others as...fake?...Americans. By definition, everyone who posts even semi-regularly on a Wizards message board like this one is a fan of the Wizards -- whether they're emotional or analytic, whether they cheer like crazy at every glimmer of hope or gripe at every perceived misfortune. We're fans whether or not we're season ticket holders, whether we have lucky underwear that makes the team win, or whether we're busily crunching numbers and looking up data like it was a job.

We're fans because of our interest, period.

Anyone who says different is full of ****.

HOF post?

[Kanyewest]

Umm, Wall isn't a superstar, except in hype and (starting next season) salary. He's a good player, and he might be a star someday if he continues improving. But a) he's not there yet, and b) he still has considerable distance to cover to reach "superstar" status.

Webster's dictionary disagrees with you.

su·per·star noun \ˈsü-pər-ˌstär\
: an extremely famous and successful performer, athlete, etc.

Full Definition of SUPERSTAR

1
: a star (as in sports or the movies) who is considered extremely talented, has great public appeal, and can usually command a high salary
2
: one that is very prominent or is a prime attraction <a diplomatic superstar>

Wall is talented

EG gave Wall his contract so he's pretty much a superstar because of that.

Plus he has his own dance!

[Nivek]

Umm, Wall isn't a superstar, except in hype and (starting next season) salary. He's a good player, and he might be a star someday if he continues improving. But a) he's not there yet, and b) he still has considerable distance to cover to reach "superstar" status.

Webster's dictionary disagrees with you.

su·per·star noun \ˈsü-pər-ˌstär\
: an extremely famous and successful performer, athlete, etc.

Full Definition of SUPERSTAR

1
: a star (as in sports or the movies) who is considered extremely talented, has great public appeal, and can usually command a high salary
2
: one that is very prominent or is a prime attraction <a diplomatic superstar>

Wall is talented

EG gave Wall his contract so he's pretty much a superstar because of that.

Plus he has his own dance!

Yep, there's the dictionary definition, there's the fan/media definition, and then there's the basketball production definition. Wall fits in the first two, but not in the third. Which was, you know, the point I was making.

[milellie111]

I just wanna know if Im a real fan with all the money Ive spent on the team

Money doesn't determine how true of a fan someone. Someone who doesn't go to the games or buy merchandise can be a diehard fan while other corporate guys who buy tickets to the game frequently may not even know who's on the team currently.

Somebody tapping away on the Internet doesn't get to decide how "true" a fan another person is any more than some schmuck running for Vice President can declare some people "real Americans" and others as...fake?...Americans. By definition, everyone who posts even semi-regularly on a Wizards message board like this one is a fan of the Wizards -- whether they're emotional or analytic, whether they cheer like crazy at every glimmer of hope or gripe at every perceived misfortune. We're fans whether or not we're season ticket holders, whether we have lucky underwear that makes the team win, or whether we're busily crunching numbers and looking up data like it was a job.

We're fans because of our interest, period.

Anyone who says different is full of ****.

I totally agree and I approve this message.

[ptptpt]

Money doesn't determine how true of a fan someone. Someone who doesn't go to the games or buy merchandise can be a diehard fan while other corporate guys who buy tickets to the game frequently may not even know who's on the team currently.

Somebody tapping away on the Internet doesn't get to decide how "true" a fan another person is any more than some schmuck running for Vice President can declare some people "real Americans" and others as...fake?...Americans. By definition, everyone who posts even semi-regularly on a Wizards message board like this one is a fan of the Wizards -- whether they're emotional or analytic, whether they cheer like crazy at every glimmer of hope or gripe at every perceived misfortune. We're fans whether or not we're season ticket holders, whether we have lucky underwear that makes the team win, or whether we're busily crunching numbers and looking up data like it was a job.

We're fans because of our interest, period.

Anyone who says different is full of ****.

I totally agree and I approve this message.

Says the man who thinks having disdain for management is equal to being a bad fan.

[ptptpt]

We don't want to be the fans who say "oh wow, well this squad surprised me", we want to be those fans who said "hey, i knew we could do this all along". If you've watched this team all season, there's no denying the chemistry has grown tremendously and guys are excited for what lies ahead. We as fans want to feed into that hunger, not diminish it.

Well personally, I see nothing wrong with being surprised by this squad or any squad for that matter. Exceeding expectations is always a good thing. Its something the Wizards have not done enough of in my lifetime.

Its interesting though about this season. This team is actually meeting a lot of folks expectations. They aren't exceeding them though. I think that is part of the reason for the tepid reception. This team is going to the playoffs. Its a good thing. Its also a thing that most folks kinda had in the back of their heads that this team was capable of doing. If this team blew to 50+ wins this season, there probably would be a lot less jawing around about folks jobs because expectations with this team would be highly exceeded. There is still time though for this to happen. Some surprising playoff wins can definitely change a few people's minds about the season.

[montestewart]

We don't want to be the fans who say "oh wow, well this squad surprised me", we want to be those fans who said "hey, i knew we could do this all along". If you've watched this team all season, there's no denying the chemistry has grown tremendously and guys are excited for what lies ahead. We as fans want to feed into that hunger, not diminish it.

Well personally, I see nothing wrong with being surprised by this squad or any squad for that matter. Exceeding expectations is always a good thing. Its something the Wizards have not done enough of in my lifetime.

Its interesting though about this season. This team is actually meeting a lot of folks expectations. They aren't exceeding them though. I think that is part of the reason for the tepid reception. This team is going to the playoffs. Its a good thing. Its also a thing that most folks kinda had in the back of their heads that this team was capable of doing. If this team blew to 50+ wins this season, there probably would be a lot less jawing around about folks jobs because expectations with this team would be highly exceeded. There is still time though for this to happen. Some surprising playoff wins can definitely change a few people's minds about the season.

Look at the preseason predictions. Most people predicted a record better than the Wizards' likely final record. Most people predicted a playoff appearance in the weak East. None of this is a big surprise. Even getting a higher than 8 seed and winning a first round series was not completely dismissed. People know that Wall has talent and Beal has potential. People know that Nene (when healthy), Ariza, Gortat, and Webster are quality contributors.

This team seems built for the fan who needs his crack pipe filled NOW! Who's he going to cry to when it's empty in the morning? The way things are going, I don't think there will be many here that end up being very surprised. And if I'm wrong, cool, I love surprises.

[payitforward]

On Gooden -- absolutely, a good move is a good move, and signing him was a plus. And no one is doubting this.

Nor would anyone say that absolutely everything Ernie has done was a mistake -- just most of it. The result of which is that we are a mediocre team with almost no flexibility to escape that state.

And the Gooden thing may be the exception that proves the rule. It was a lazy signing, Gooden was in Bethesda was working out at the Verizon center, was amnestied and thus comes cheap willing to work for peanuts, and happened to be around when we had an injury, and after we had dropped JVes on a two-for-one deal. It was a no-brainer, if he looked good fine you can try him on a 10-day, if not, no big deal. Ernie has had a few reclamation projects that looked nice for a short time (Josh Howard played well for us, Shawn Livingston got his comeback start with us, a few others) he likes a bargain vet with something to prove, but Gooden was a freebie, can hardly count him in the credit column.

Lazy signing or not or however you want to look at it. The point is Grunfeld made the move to bring him in. And it was a low risk high reward at that. If it would have been any other GM, praises would have been sung. Now that it's Grunfeld, no one wants to give him credit.

Look, Millie, you're entitled to your opinion -- why not? But when I say:

"Gooden -- absolutely, a good move is a good move, and signing him was a plus. And no one is doubting this."

And you reply on the same subject that

because "it's Grunfeld, no one wants to give him credit"

doesn't that kind of mean you need to go out and buy yourself a logic textbook? Or at least not insulting intelligent people by giving intelligence no credit and just repeating the same dumb statements?

[milellie111]

And the Gooden thing may be the exception that proves the rule. It was a lazy signing, Gooden was in Bethesda was working out at the Verizon center, was amnestied and thus comes cheap willing to work for peanuts, and happened to be around when we had an injury, and after we had dropped JVes on a two-for-one deal. It was a no-brainer, if he looked good fine you can try him on a 10-day, if not, no big deal. Ernie has had a few reclamation projects that looked nice for a short time (Josh Howard played well for us, Shawn Livingston got his comeback start with us, a few others) he likes a bargain vet with something to prove, but Gooden was a freebie, can hardly count him in the credit column.

Lazy signing or not or however you want to look at it. The point is Grunfeld made the move to bring him in. And it was a low risk high reward at that. If it would have been any other GM, praises would have been sung. Now that it's Grunfeld, no one wants to give him credit.

Look, Millie, you're entitled to your opinion -- why not? But when I say:

"Gooden -- absolutely, a good move is a good move, and signing him was a plus. And no one is doubting this."

And you reply on the same subject that

because "it's Grunfeld, no one wants to give him credit"

doesn't that kind of mean you need to go out and buy yourself a logic textbook? Or at least not insulting intelligent people by giving intelligence no credit and just repeating the same dumb statements?

payitforward, I must have been trying to reply to doclinkin when he said that this was a lazy signing.

[DCZards]

I didn't see milellie saying "no one" as ignoring the fact that some posters have given EG credit for the Gooden signing. I think in this case his words are being taken too literally.

[MikeTheKid]

Somebody tapping away on the Internet doesn't get to decide how "true" a fan another person is any more than some schmuck running for Vice President can declare some people "real Americans" and others as...fake?...Americans. By definition, everyone who posts even semi-regularly on a Wizards message board like this one is a fan of the Wizards -- whether they're emotional or analytic, whether they cheer like crazy at every glimmer of hope or gripe at every perceived misfortune. We're fans whether or not we're season ticket holders, whether we have lucky underwear that makes the team win, or whether we're busily crunching numbers and looking up data like it was a job.

We're fans because of our interest, period.

Anyone who says different is full of ****.

I totally agree and I approve this message.

Says the man who thinks having disdain for management is equal to being a bad fan.

jayscott your going to fit in well here!!!

[tontoz]

Early in the season a loss like this would really piss me off. Now i don't really have the energy to care.

[payitforward]

I didn't see milellie saying "no one" as ignoring the fact that some posters have given EG credit for the Gooden signing. I think in this case his words are being taken too literally.

In other words, when he says "no one", he doesn't mean "no one." And you are in a position to say this, because... what?

When I said "no one" ("no one doubts this"), tell me what I meant if you don't mind. Did I mean "no one"? Or did I mean "no one" but not literally?

Gooden is producing at a high level while costing us next to nothing. "No one" -- literally -- doubts that; or I could just say it's not open to doubt.

Signing a guy who produces at a high level while costing next to nothing is good. "No one" -- literally -- doubts that. Again, it's not open to doubt.

Ernie signed Gooden. "No one" -- literally -- doubts that. Not open to doubt.

And because none of the above is open to doubt, "no one" -- literally -- doubts that Ernie made a good move. It's just not open to doubt.

Hence, what millelie said was false -- and "ignoring" is exactly what millelie did. On top of which he is telling people what kind of fans they should be. Mostly people who have been Wizards (and before that, Bullets) fans for years -- much longer than he has been I'd be willing to bet.

It's one thing to post ignorantly, disrespectfully, and thoughtlessly once or twice or a few times. But to do it repeatedly earns you the title of troll. I'd be happy to see him change his tone; I'd be happy to see him show some respect for people who actually understand basketball, the NBA, and this franchise. No one will be nicer to him than I -- the minute I see some changes, small ones would be fine, in this direction.

[milellie111]

Early in the season a loss like this would really piss me off. Now i don't really have the energy to care.

I wasn't surprised at all. This was a trap game. We were due for a loss like this. Hopefully the guys dont get too down and keep their focus for this upcomimg important stretch

[milellie111]

Where do you guys jump to the conclusion that I called out folks on not being real fans of the team? i never said that at all neither was that my intent

[dckingsfan]

Where do you guys jump to the conclusion that I called out folks on not being real fans of the team? i never said that at all neither was that my intent

[DCZards]

It's one thing to post ignorantly, disrespectfully, and thoughtlessly once or twice or a few times. But to do it repeatedly earns you the title of troll. I'd be happy to see him change his tone; I'd be happy to see him show some respect for people who actually understand basketball, the NBA, and this franchise.

You, of all people, are complaining about another poster's "tone." That's laughable.

[milellie111]

I didn't see milellie saying "no one" as ignoring the fact that some posters have given EG credit for the Gooden signing. I think in this case his words are being taken too literally.

In other words, when he says "no one", he doesn't mean "no one." And you are in a position to say this, because... what?

When I said "no one" ("no one doubts this"), tell me what I meant if you don't mind. Did I mean "no one"? Or did I mean "no one" but not literally?

Gooden is producing at a high level while costing us next to nothing. "No one" -- literally -- doubts that; or I could just say it's not open to doubt.

Signing a guy who produces at a high level while costing next to nothing is good. "No one" -- literally -- doubts that. Again, it's not open to doubt.

Ernie signed Gooden. "No one" -- literally -- doubts that. Not open to doubt.

And because none of the above is open to doubt, "no one" -- literally -- doubts that Ernie made a good move. It's just not open to doubt.

Hence, what millelie said was false -- and "ignoring" is exactly what millelie did. On top of which he is telling people what kind of fans they should be. Mostly people who have been Wizards (and before that, Bullets) fans for years -- much longer than he has been I'd be willing to bet.

It's one thing to post ignorantly, disrespectfully, and thoughtlessly once or twice or a few times. But to do it repeatedly earns you the title of troll. I'd be happy to see him change his tone; I'd be happy to see him show some respect for people who actually understand basketball, the NBA, and this franchise. No one will be nicer to him than I -- the minute I see some changes, small ones would be fine, in this direction.

Ive disrespected no one here. I just started a thread based on what I've personally seen and I am showing some positive enthusiasm for my team. If anything, I'm the one being disrespected. Being called a troll, ignorant, idiot, threatented to be placed on ignore etc. Is that type of behavior and reaction warranted just because someone doesn't become one of the "sheep" and follow the crowd here? Is the cost of showing some positivity towards management and the winning home team being viewed as an outcast who's opinion doesn't matter on his own teams fan message board?

Perhaps if I started a thread "Ernie Sucks" then i would have been warmly embraced with high fives and "welcome brother". But then, i wouldn't be thinking for myself, I would just fall into the same category of those who can't think for themselves. I have an opinion, expressed it and backed it up with statements and facts. Even if the majority here has a different opinion, everything is just an opinion. It doesnt matter how long you've been watching basketball or how much so called knowledge anyone has about the game, it is still just an opinion. No one who posts here is an owner of a team or NBA executive. We all can play NBA GM on a message board and really begin to believe we are fit to make decisions for an NBA franchise. We all can scrutinize another guys job after the moves he's made. It's easy for the common folk to say "If I was GM, i would do this or if I was mayor or President i would do that".

At the end of the day, the only opinion who matters is Teds anyway and he will make a final business decision based on what he see's fit for his franchise. As a fan, whatever management decision is made, I'd rather focus on supporting the team and enjoying this playoff run. All i pointed out is that our team is competitive, fun to watch, garnering respect league wide and has potential and the GM who's responsible for this still gets hate from fans who can't wait to run him out of town.

[ptptpt]

Where do you guys jump to the conclusion that I called out folks on not being real fans of the team? i never said that at all neither was that my intent

Ummm....Do you really want me to point it out to you dude? Cause I sure will do it. I will give you a chance though to own up to it. Most of us love the Wizards but don't love the management. Is that a bad thing as a fan? I don't think it is. You seem to feel otherwise though.

[montestewart]

PIF, that forensic dissection of "no one" was HOF by itself. I'll bet I could shoot someone in front of ten witnesses and you could argue it away (probably cost more than I can afford). And then that tone comment. Hilarious. Come on! Without the tone, this thread is nothing, but it's the thread that keeps on giving. Everyone's a star here, and millie ("I never questioned your patriotism") illy is poster of the year! Best thing since Ace Degenerate. Time for Hoopalotta to weigh in. Go Wiz!