Official Trade Thread - Part XXVII

[bgroban]

http://nba.si.com/2014/04/24/pau-gasol-los-angeles-lakers-kobe-bryant-mike-dantoni/?eref=sihp

" Gasol also reiterated his philosophical differences with coach Mike D’Antoni. Gasol prefers to play a post-oriented offense at a methodical pace, while D’Antoni has wanted to feature Gasol more in pick-and-roll situations and as a facilitator in a faster-paced offense.
“I’ve never concealed the fact that D’Antoni’s style doesn’t suit my game,” Gasol wrote. “Everybody knows this. I don’t know if my decision will be swayed by whether Mike stays or leaves. Obviously, the coach is a very important factor for any team.” "

If the Gasol pipe dream had a chance, it probably doesnt anymore given the type of offense he wants to be in. Gasol may not like P+R, if I interpret his statements correctly.

Why do you want Gasol? Too old, too many injuries. No thank you.

[Ruzious]

My prediction on their starting lineup next year dependent on their pick and FA spend.

Code: Select all

PG   Knight   Wolters   
SG   GA           Mayo    
SF   Middelton    Delfino   
PF   Henson   Ilyasova   
C   Sanders    Pachulia   Raduljica


So, my guess is that their moves will depend on who they draft. If they draft Embiid - it will have a ripple effect, Wiggins or Parker another different ripple effect, Randle yet another and Smart or Exum yet another.

If somehow they get Randle, I think Ilyasova is in play.

I don't think Giannis is a 2. He's either a 3 or 4.

He spent 37% of his time at the SG slot and 63% at SF. He defended both positions equally well.

Raf is correct. The last time they measured Gianis, he was 6'10, and they said he could grow to 7' - and his frame is not thin. He's a growing boy. I still think they'll draft a front court player, because it appears the top 3 players are front court players. And whoever they pick, I think they'd be fine trading Ilyasova - more likely as a salary dump than trading for a veteran like Webster.

[verbal8]

My prediction on their starting lineup next year dependent on their pick and FA spend.

Code: Select all

PG   Knight   Wolters   
SG   GA           Mayo    
SF   Middelton    Delfino   
PF   Henson   Ilyasova   
C   Sanders    Pachulia   Raduljica


So, my guess is that their moves will depend on who they draft. If they draft Embiid - it will have a ripple effect, Wiggins or Parker another different ripple effect, Randle yet another and Smart or Exum yet another.

If somehow they get Randle, I think Ilyasova is in play.

I don't think Giannis is a 2. He's either a 3 or 4.

He spent 37% of his time at the SG slot and 63% at SF. He defended both positions equally well.

Are you thinking of Middleton? He is more a SG/SF(27% SG/70% SF on B-R). Basketball-reference has Giannis as 67% SF/31% PF.

[verbal8]

I don't think Giannis is a 2. He's either a 3 or 4.

He spent 37% of his time at the SG slot and 63% at SF. He defended both positions equally well.

Raf is correct. The last time they measured Gianis, he was 6'10, and they said he could grow to 7' - and his frame is not thin. He's a growing boy. I still think they'll draft a front court player, because it appears the top 3 players are front court players. And whoever they pick, I think they'd be fine trading Ilyasova - more likely as a salary dump than trading for a veteran like Webster.

Here is a scary thought - Perkins for Ersan would work.

[dckingsfan]

I don't think Giannis is a 2. He's either a 3 or 4.

He spent 37% of his time at the SG slot and 63% at SF. He defended both positions equally well.

Are you thinking of Middleton? He is more a SG/SF(27% SG/70% SF on B-R). Basketball-reference has Giannis as 67% SF/31% PF.

Nope, we are using the same numbers... he may become a PF but he isn't now or for the next year or two.

[dckingsfan]

I don't think Giannis is a 2. He's either a 3 or 4.

He spent 37% of his time at the SG slot and 63% at SF. He defended both positions equally well.

Raf is correct. The last time they measured Gianis, he was 6'10, and they said he could grow to 7' - and his frame is not thin. He's a growing boy. I still think they'll draft a front court player, because it appears the top 3 players are front court players. And whoever they pick, I think they'd be fine trading Ilyasova - more likely as a salary dump than trading for a veteran like Webster.

If I was Milwaukee, I would trade down - try to get either Smart/Exum + Harris/Young.

[fishercob]

Obviously, Webster for Ersan would help us... as long as Nene is playing like he has been. Ersan is not a Nene replacement (which is what we ultimately need).

How long do you expect Nene to be effective? And are Ersan/Gortat a defensive sieve if Nene is out? And could we get someone even better (who plays defense, can assume leadership role, etc) for the pricetag we would pay for Gortat/Ersan? And we still don't have a rim protector.

Those remain my concerns.

If we really are going after Durant, I have no problem with any roster moves made the next two years to acquire/attract him. But, I don't want Ersan to be viewed as our long term solution for a star big. That has always been my problem. He is not a leader. He doesn't play defense. He isn't a star. He doesn't have the respect of the refs in a postseason setting against the best players in the world. And our most pressing need (whom we either must draft next year or spend dollars on soon) is a rim protector, if we ever hope to drag Durant from OKC.

I think having Ersan would help prolong Nene's career and effectiveness; he'd be relied upon for fewer minutes. I don't view him as a Nene replacement; he's an accent -- a replacement for Booker in the frontcourt rotation (with Otto replacing Webster on the wing).

Re: defense and rim protection, the WIzards had the 7th best defense in the league this year. I don't see Ilyasova for Booker hurting that, especially since the former is a better defensive rebounder (the Wiz were 8th in DReb%). Getting Ilyasova wouldn't change the Wizards' long term need for a great frontcourt player, but I don't think it would hinder their pursuit of it. If anything, he'll help make the team better and thus contribute to the winning vibe in DC and making it a more attractive destination.

[fishercob]

I don't think Giannis is a 2. He's either a 3 or 4.

He spent 37% of his time at the SG slot and 63% at SF. He defended both positions equally well.

Raf is correct. The last time they measured Gianis, he was 6'10, and they said he could grow to 7' - and his frame is not thin. He's a growing boy. I still think they'll draft a front court player, because it appears the top 3 players are front court players. And whoever they pick, I think they'd be fine trading Ilyasova - more likely as a salary dump than trading for a veteran like Webster.

You may be right here, Ruz. But I think leadership and stewardship of their young players is a more pressing need than immediate salary relief. They're not near the tax; I think they'd value what Webster brings over an open roster spot and the marginal cap space.

[Dat2U]

I don't think Giannis is a 2. He's either a 3 or 4.

He spent 37% of his time at the SG slot and 63% at SF. He defended both positions equally well.

Raf is correct. The last time they measured Gianis, he was 6'10, and they said he could grow to 7' - and his frame is not thin. He's a growing boy. I still think they'll draft a front court player, because it appears the top 3 players are front court players. And whoever they pick, I think they'd be fine trading Ilyasova - more likely as a salary dump than trading for a veteran like Webster.

Am I wrong in thinking both Ilyasova & Sanders can both be had in salary dump scenarios? Especially Sanders with his regression & off the court habits since he signed his contract extension.

[mhd]

He spent 37% of his time at the SG slot and 63% at SF. He defended both positions equally well.

Raf is correct. The last time they measured Gianis, he was 6'10, and they said he could grow to 7' - and his frame is not thin. He's a growing boy. I still think they'll draft a front court player, because it appears the top 3 players are front court players. And whoever they pick, I think they'd be fine trading Ilyasova - more likely as a salary dump than trading for a veteran like Webster.

Am I wrong in thinking both Ilyasova & Sanders can both be had in salary dump scenarios? Especially Sanders with his regression & off the court habits since he signed his contract extension.

I think Sanders could certainly be had (especially if they take Embiid), but I doubt we have the horses (unless the Bucks like Porter). Besides, I think other teams would want to gamble for Sanders (especially the teams out west).

[Dat2U]

Raf is correct. The last time they measured Gianis, he was 6'10, and they said he could grow to 7' - and his frame is not thin. He's a growing boy. I still think they'll draft a front court player, because it appears the top 3 players are front court players. And whoever they pick, I think they'd be fine trading Ilyasova - more likely as a salary dump than trading for a veteran like Webster.

Am I wrong in thinking both Ilyasova & Sanders can both be had in salary dump scenarios? Especially Sanders with his regression & off the court habits since he signed his contract extension.

I think Sanders could certainly be had (especially if they take Embiid), but I doubt we have the horses (unless the Bucks like Porter). Besides, I think other teams would want to gamble for Sanders (especially the teams out west).

Well that's my question. Are the Bucks even in a position to demand significant compensation in return? Seems like the off-court issues, injuries, poor play and marijuana habits would work against that.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The trade I keep coming back to as making sense for this roster is Martell Webster for Ersan Ilyasova.

Much like Gortat was during his final season in PHX, Ilyasova is in a terrible situation in Milwaukee, and I believe that's a big reason behind his big drop in productivity. Put him on a good team, with good teammates and a defined role, and I think you're very likely to see the guy who was putting up .550+ TS% the two previous seasons while shooting 45% (!) from three and holding his own on the boards.

Making such a deal would mean letting Booker walk, so in terms of the roster, it's effectively Booker and Webster for Ilyasova. In terms of the rotation, it's Booker/Webster for Ilyasova/Porter, which I expect to be a signficant upgrade.

While Webster was our primary backup SG this year, there's nothing that he can do -- within the confines of our offense or our defense -- that Ariza cannot. It's been said that the SG and SF are interchangeable in our system, so I am comfortable with Ariza getting some SG time. And I think Ariza would be more comfortable with that (and that it's more realistic) than asking him to pack on 15+ pounds so he can play more 4.

Glen Rice III would get a shot to make the roster and earn minutes as a backup SG, and then you also have the entire MLE and your vet minimum slots with which to target a guy like CJ Miles, Anthony Morrow, Jodie Meeks, etc if you so chose.

As has been discussed here ad nauseum, I think Ilyasova would be a great fit as a stretch 4. He'd provide so much spacing for Wall's (and MIller's) pick and roll game and he can play with either Nene or Gortat. I don't think replacing Booker with him would hurt our overall defensive efficiency (Ersan doesn't block as many shots, but is much better on the defensive boards), and I believe it would help our overall offensive efficiency, where we finished just about at the league average.

The "hidden" component of this deal is that you're replacing Webster with Porter. You don't make this deal if you think such a change would be a disaster for the rotation, but I obviously do not. I think Otto is going to be a very good player and he'll do well with Webster's minutes.

This allows us to keep Nene fresh, which we are seeing beyond any doubt in these playoffs, to be mission-critical. Bring Ersan in for Nene at the six-minute mark of the 1Q, which will give him time with the 1's and the 2's and enable keeping Nene's minutes down in the 26-28 range.

It also preserves the MLE to go after a worthwhile 4th big -- be it Jordan Hill, Okafor if he checks out medically, etc. Or you could keep Gooden as your 4th big (instead of 5th) and use the MLE to make a run a quality guard like Patty Mills.

I really like a rotation for Wall, Beal, Ariza, Nene, Gortat, Ilyasova, Porter, Miller, and some combo of Gooden and the MLE.

Great trade idea, fish.

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[mhd]

Am I wrong in thinking both Ilyasova & Sanders can both be had in salary dump scenarios? Especially Sanders with his regression & off the court habits since he signed his contract extension.

I think Sanders could certainly be had (especially if they take Embiid), but I doubt we have the horses (unless the Bucks like Porter). Besides, I think other teams would want to gamble for Sanders (especially the teams out west).

Well that's my question. Are the Bucks even in a position to demand significant compensation in return? Seems like the off-court issues, injuries, poor play and marijuana habits would work against that.

Dallas is going to have major cap space. They could absorb Sander's contract instantly if they wanted to. The Raptors could make offers using expirings like Fields & Salmons.

The Wizards lack the expirings, and only have Porter as an expendable asset, and Porter is needed because Ariza is a FA.

[Dat2U]

I think Sanders could certainly be had (especially if they take Embiid), but I doubt we have the horses (unless the Bucks like Porter). Besides, I think other teams would want to gamble for Sanders (especially the teams out west).

Well that's my question. Are the Bucks even in a position to demand significant compensation in return? Seems like the off-court issues, injuries, poor play and marijuana habits would work against that.

Dallas is going to have major cap space. They could absorb Sander's contract instantly if they wanted to. The Raptors could make offers using expirings like Fields & Salmons.

The Wizards lack the expirings, and only have Porter as an expendable asset, and Porter is needed because Ariza is a FA.

Why would Dallas sacrifice cap room to take on what some consider a bad contract? I think there's a number of ways they could go with the cap room but Larry Sanders seems pretty far down on that list. The Raps wouldn't seem like a good bet either considering they have Valanciunas and Sanders is strictly a C.

[barelyawake]

Obviously, Webster for Ersan would help us... as long as Nene is playing like he has been. Ersan is not a Nene replacement (which is what we ultimately need).

How long do you expect Nene to be effective? And are Ersan/Gortat a defensive sieve if Nene is out? And could we get someone even better (who plays defense, can assume leadership role, etc) for the pricetag we would pay for Gortat/Ersan? And we still don't have a rim protector.

Those remain my concerns.

If we really are going after Durant, I have no problem with any roster moves made the next two years to acquire/attract him. But, I don't want Ersan to be viewed as our long term solution for a star big. That has always been my problem. He is not a leader. He doesn't play defense. He isn't a star. He doesn't have the respect of the refs in a postseason setting against the best players in the world. And our most pressing need (whom we either must draft next year or spend dollars on soon) is a rim protector, if we ever hope to drag Durant from OKC.

I think having Ersan would help prolong Nene's career and effectiveness; he'd be relied upon for fewer minutes. I don't view him as a Nene replacement; he's an accent -- a replacement for Booker in the frontcourt rotation (with Otto replacing Webster on the wing).

Re: defense and rim protection, the WIzards had the 7th best defense in the league this year. I don't see Ilyasova for Booker hurting that, especially since the former is a better defensive rebounder (the Wiz were 8th in DReb%). Getting Ilyasova wouldn't change the Wizards' long term need for a great frontcourt player, but I don't think it would hinder their pursuit of it. If anything, he'll help make the team better and thus contribute to the winning vibe in DC and making it a more attractive destination.

Again, the argument isn't whether he would help. The argument is whether he would help over what we could get via cap, players demanding a trade (and/or) trading future picks. As I said, if we are aiming for Durant (and this helps us there), then fine. If not though, then we have put off getting a long term solution replacement for Nene. Because another year older Nene, Ersan, Gortat won't win a championship. So, the "making us better" part doesn't matter to me much (unless the result is attracting an actual star in two years).

So, I see your point. I always have. I'm saying it could be a trap that holds us back.

[fishercob]

Obviously, Webster for Ersan would help us... as long as Nene is playing like he has been. Ersan is not a Nene replacement (which is what we ultimately need).

How long do you expect Nene to be effective? And are Ersan/Gortat a defensive sieve if Nene is out? And could we get someone even better (who plays defense, can assume leadership role, etc) for the pricetag we would pay for Gortat/Ersan? And we still don't have a rim protector.

Those remain my concerns.

If we really are going after Durant, I have no problem with any roster moves made the next two years to acquire/attract him. But, I don't want Ersan to be viewed as our long term solution for a star big. That has always been my problem. He is not a leader. He doesn't play defense. He isn't a star. He doesn't have the respect of the refs in a postseason setting against the best players in the world. And our most pressing need (whom we either must draft next year or spend dollars on soon) is a rim protector, if we ever hope to drag Durant from OKC.

I think having Ersan would help prolong Nene's career and effectiveness; he'd be relied upon for fewer minutes. I don't view him as a Nene replacement; he's an accent -- a replacement for Booker in the frontcourt rotation (with Otto replacing Webster on the wing).

Re: defense and rim protection, the WIzards had the 7th best defense in the league this year. I don't see Ilyasova for Booker hurting that, especially since the former is a better defensive rebounder (the Wiz were 8th in DReb%). Getting Ilyasova wouldn't change the Wizards' long term need for a great frontcourt player, but I don't think it would hinder their pursuit of it. If anything, he'll help make the team better and thus contribute to the winning vibe in DC and making it a more attractive destination.

Again, the argument isn't whether he would help. The argument is whether he would help over what we could get via cap, players demanding a trade (and/or) trading future picks. As I said, if we are aiming for Durant (and this helps us there), then fine. If not though, then we have put off getting a long term solution replacement for Nene. Because another year older Nene, Ersan, Gortat won't win a championship. So, the "making us better" part doesn't matter to me much (unless the result is attracting an actual star in two years).

So, I see your point. I always have. I'm saying it could be a trap that holds us back.

I appreciate that; I'm not concerned about it holding us back, particularly the given the length of his deal. Hope you're well. I could use one of your SUnday morning jazz mixes one of these days!

[barelyawake]

I'm great, Fish, especially considering the Wiz wins and my Vegas bets.

Man, Jazz Sundays... There is a flashback. I work Sundays now doing my art auctions (have for years). But, I see a jazz Saturday in my future.

PS Doc, this belongs in the music thread, but Moon Hooch is doing a "tiny desk" for NPR next week, and I got invited. I'll have to post pics. You should tune in.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think Sanders could certainly be had (especially if they take Embiid), but I doubt we have the horses (unless the Bucks like Porter). Besides, I think other teams would want to gamble for Sanders (especially the teams out west).

Well that's my question. Are the Bucks even in a position to demand significant compensation in return? Seems like the off-court issues, injuries, poor play and marijuana habits would work against that.

Dallas is going to have major cap space. They could absorb Sander's contract instantly if they wanted to. The Raptors could make offers using expirings like Fields & Salmons.

The Wizards lack the expirings, and only have Porter as an expendable asset, and Porter is needed because Ariza is a FA.

I foresee Chris Bosh heading to Dallas, because Miami might get swept in the finals, if they make it that far.

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[bealwithit]

Say the Hawks win this series and Bird decides to blow it up, putting Hibbert on the block. Would you go for that? Hibbert has been terrible offensively and weak on the boards but has been his usual self on defense protecting the rim. I personally think if he had a change of scenery he could get himself together. We need a rim protector like him.

Anyone who knows what they're talking about with trades and contracts (I don't know how much Hibbert is getting paid but I feel like he got a new contract recently, too lazy to look it up) could maybe help me figure out how a trade might work.

[Nivek]

Say the Hawks win this series and Bird decides to blow it up, putting Hibbert on the block. Would you go for that? Hibbert has been terrible offensively and weak on the boards but has been his usual self on defense protecting the rim. I personally think if he had a change of scenery he could get himself together. We need a rim protector like him.

Anyone who knows what they're talking about with trades and contracts (I don't know how much Hibbert is getting paid but I feel like he got a new contract recently, too lazy to look it up) could maybe help me figure out how a trade might work.

I wouldn't. Guys have to play both ends, and Hibbert is awful on offense. And, his defense is decent, but Indy is just as good defensively when he's on the bench. I wouldn't mind having him on my team, but not at his salary and not for what Indy will want in exchange.