2021 Draft thread. Woo! 15th pick here we come! Hoo. Ray.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Jones and Garuba I’m not familiar with beyond name recognition.

You picked the exact two big man that I like/love. Day’Ron Sharpe is an absolute brute. I will be very happy if they draft him. Jackson is a quick, springy athlete, the likes of which we have not had in recent memory. He is a superb defender. He’s quick like Christian Wood.

Mitchell might slip to round two. Just because...Freshmen like Springer and Cooper will go before Mitchell IMO, deserved or not.

Yeah I do like Sharpe, he is a force, rock solid. Would immediately provide much needed help for this team on the boards.

I've posted a bunch about Garuba, he's international playing for Real Madrid, 6-9 Center along the lines of a Okongwu or Tristan Thompson type.


Here's some recent footage of Kai Jones....

Watch on YouTube

;t=230s


From NBA DRAFT ROOM :

PF – Texas (Bahamas) – HT: 6-10 – WT: 205 – So – Kai has made major strides over the past year, developing his game and his body to the point of being a potential lottery pick.

Draft Notes
Extra long, bouncy and quick off his feet, Kai Jones has all the upside and all the tools to develop into a first rounder. His activity around the rim is impressive and his open court ability at his size really stands out. He plays above the rim with ease and finishes most of his moves with a dunk.

At 6-10 he shows really good handles and he can run the fast break or take his man off the bounce in the half court set. He still needs to polish up his ball-handling but that will come with time. For now, he’s far advanced compared to most other 6-10 players his age.

Jones a super quick first and second jump. His ability to recover defensively is impressive and he’s a high level shot blocker and solid overall defender. His defensive versatility and ability to step out and guard smaller players gives him a ton of added value at the NBA level.

Kai Jones reminds me abit of Derrick McKey. Solid two way player who teased with upside but more comfortable as 4th/5th option and blending in than standing out. I also see a decent amount of Perry Jones level passivity in his game which is not good at all. Late 1st, early 2nd.

The guy doesn’t really thrill me. I agree, Dat. He will be at least functionally serviceable.

[NatP4]

Okay, I’m crossing out Kuminga completely. This guy better start dropping in mock drafts. 5-15 again today. 1-5 from 3, 5 turnovers. There is nothing special about his game.

I’m no fan of Jalen Johnson’s game, but taking Kuminga over him would be an AWFUL decision. Don’t even get me started on just how much better of a prospect Franz Wagner is than Kuminga.

Kuminga is basically Andrew Wiggins at this point. He thinks he’s a scorer and shot creator, but he can’t hit throw a rock in the ocean or take care of the ball, and while all the tools are there, he’s not actually a good defender due to lack of basketball IQ.

And again, we could chalk it up to small sample size with his shooting, but if you’re watching these games, he’s chucking up total bricks that are nowhere close.

[NatP4]

Duarte with 22 points and 7 rebounds on 10 shots. 4-5 from 3. One of the best shooters&perimeter defenders in college basketball. Super underrated athlete. Going to be a really good pro from day 1.

Will absolutely fall out of the top 20ish picks due to his age.

[NatP4]

Read on Twitter

[NatP4]

Game of the year between Baylor and West Virginia right now. One of the most entertaining games I have seen in awhile. Jared Butler is such a pro

[NatP4]

What a ridiculous performance from that Baylor backcourt against a legit top 6 team with NBA talent. They combined for 40+ points 10+ assists. So clutch down the stretch.

Butler has everything you want in a NBA guard. His leadership is off the charts. Such a winner.

[pcbothwel]

Not to keep harping on Wagner, but wanted to add a little perspective.
Wagner has a OBPM/DBPM/BPM of 6.9 / 6.5 / 13.5.
When you look at players in the last decade to have a 6+ OBPM and 6+ DBPM, I get 8 players (I excluded Seniors, because while Thornwell & Delon Wright are good players, I think being 23 y/o Senior skews it a bit).

1) Zion
2) AD
3) Brandon Clarke
4) Dipo
5) Happ
6) KAT
7) Wagner
8) Tillman (Twice !!!)

Every one of those players is going to play a decade in the league.
Only Happ doesnt fit, but he's a dinosaur. Traditional back to basket Center that cant guard on the perimeter, cant shoot, and cant make FT's.

Wagner may never make an AS team, but you cant bet your ass he's going to play 25MPG on a team in the conference Finals at some point. Book it.

[nate33]

Not to keep harping on Wagner, but wanted to add a little perspective.
Wagner has a OBPM/DBPM/BPM of 6.9 / 6.5 / 13.5.
When you look at players in the last decade to have a 6+ OBPM and 6+ DBPM, I get 8 players (I excluded Seniors, because while Thornwell & Delon Wright are good players, I think being 23 y/o Senior skews it a bit).

1) Zion
2) AD
3) Brandon Clarke
4) Dipo
5) Happ
6) KAT
7) Wagner
8) Tillman (Twice !!!)

Every one of those players is going to play a decade in the league.
Only Happ doesnt fit, but he's a dinosaur. Traditional back to basket Center that cant guard on the perimeter, cant shoot, and cant make FT's.

Wagner may never make an AS team, but you cant bet your ass he's going to play 25MPG on a team in the conference Finals at some point. Book it.

The only problem I see is that there's not much room at forward on a team that already has Avdija, Hachimura and Bertans.

It would have been nice if we had drafted Haliburton. A future foursome of Haliburton, Beal, Wagner and Hachimura seems pretty promising.

[NatP4]

Wagner is a better prospect than Hachimura and Avdija IMO.

A future of Haliburton-Beal-Wagner-Clarke-Tillman would’ve been pretty amazing.

[Ruzious]

What a ridiculous performance from that Baylor backcourt against a legit top 6 team with NBA talent. They combined for 40+ points 10+ assists. So clutch down the stretch.

Butler has everything you want in a NBA guard. His leadership is off the charts. Such a winner.

I think he's the second coming of George Hill - isn't a spectacular athlete but does everything well and quietly leads his team to W's.

[Ruzious]

Yeah I do like Sharpe, he is a force, rock solid. Would immediately provide much needed help for this team on the boards.

I've posted a bunch about Garuba, he's international playing for Real Madrid, 6-9 Center along the lines of a Okongwu or Tristan Thompson type.


From NBA DRAFT ROOM :

PF – Texas (Bahamas) – HT: 6-10 – WT: 205 – So – Kai has made major strides over the past year, developing his game and his body to the point of being a potential lottery pick.

Draft Notes
Extra long, bouncy and quick off his feet, Kai Jones has all the upside and all the tools to develop into a first rounder. His activity around the rim is impressive and his open court ability at his size really stands out. He plays above the rim with ease and finishes most of his moves with a dunk.

At 6-10 he shows really good handles and he can run the fast break or take his man off the bounce in the half court set. He still needs to polish up his ball-handling but that will come with time. For now, he’s far advanced compared to most other 6-10 players his age.

Jones a super quick first and second jump. His ability to recover defensively is impressive and he’s a high level shot blocker and solid overall defender. His defensive versatility and ability to step out and guard smaller players gives him a ton of added value at the NBA level.

Kai Jones reminds me abit of Derrick McKey. Solid two way player who teased with upside but more comfortable as 4th/5th option and blending in than standing out. I also see a decent amount of Perry Jones level passivity in his game which is not good at all. Late 1st, early 2nd.

I was kind of think of the guy doesn’t really thrill me. I agree, Dat. He will be at least functionally serviceable.

If anyone could benefit from being under Pop's tutelage for a couple of years, it's Kai Jones, because yeah - he's got a lot of the characteristics that Kawhi did in college. Not saying he's the next Kawhi - he almost certainly won't be, but he can become a major asset under the right tutelage. And yes, I said tutelage 3 times in 1 paragraph.

[NatP4]

What a ridiculous performance from that Baylor backcourt against a legit top 6 team with NBA talent. They combined for 40+ points 10+ assists. So clutch down the stretch.

Butler has everything you want in a NBA guard. His leadership is off the charts. Such a winner.

I think he's the second coming of George Hill - isn't a spectacular athlete but does everything well and quietly leads his team to W's.

That’s a great comparison. Butler probably has a little bit more natural off ball shooting ability, but smart player, good leader, good defender, does everything well, contributes to Ws. Nothing flashy, just makes the right plays. Unselfish.

[nate33]

What a ridiculous performance from that Baylor backcourt against a legit top 6 team with NBA talent. They combined for 40+ points 10+ assists. So clutch down the stretch.

Butler has everything you want in a NBA guard. His leadership is off the charts. Such a winner.

I think he's the second coming of George Hill - isn't a spectacular athlete but does everything well and quietly leads his team to W's.

That’s a great comparison. Butler probably has a little bit more natural off ball shooting ability, but smart player, good leader, good defender, does everything well, contributes to Ws. Nothing flashy, just makes the right plays. Unselfish.

He reminds me a little of Malcolm Brogdan.

[Ruzious]

I think he's the second coming of George Hill - isn't a spectacular athlete but does everything well and quietly leads his team to W's.

That’s a great comparison. Butler probably has a little bit more natural off ball shooting ability, but smart player, good leader, good defender, does everything well, contributes to Ws. Nothing flashy, just makes the right plays. Unselfish.

He reminds me a little of Malcolm Brogdan.

He doesn't have the size and length of Brogdon. Brogdon's 6'5 220ish with a 6'10 wingspan, and the scouting reports say Butler's about 6'3 195 with a 6'4 wingspan. But yeah, stylistically, there are similarities.

[NatP4]

That’s a great comparison. Butler probably has a little bit more natural off ball shooting ability, but smart player, good leader, good defender, does everything well, contributes to Ws. Nothing flashy, just makes the right plays. Unselfish.

He reminds me a little of Malcolm Brogdan.

He doesn't have the size and length of Brogdon. Brogdon's 6'5 220ish with a 6'10 wingspan, and the scouting reports say Butler's about 6'3 195 with a 6'4 wingspan. But yeah, stylistically, there are similarities.

I believe George Hill also has a near 6’10 wingspan. He reminds me of Monte Morris. Not a true PG but solid playmaking skills, great defense and great 3pt shooting. Helps you win games and no one on planet earth talks about him because no one cares about defense or valuing possessions.

Butler will probably average something like 15 points 5 assists 3 rebounds and 1.5 steals per 36 on 56% TS in the pros with great PG defense. His on/off numbers will be really good. Again, doesn’t turn 22 until preseason, so you get him on a rookie deal ready to contribute to wins for ages 22,23,24,25 and the option to re sign him as a RFA for his prime 26, 27, 28, and 29 year old seasons.

All the praise goes to the flashy point guards, but there are some REALLY good undervalued players that contribute to Ws like Devonte Graham and Monte Morris that slipped into the 2nd round. I’m starting to think that scouts seriously underrate big 12 guards, and not just the top guys like Haliburton, but guys like Desmond Bane&Jevon Carter.

[DCZards]

I also have been very impressed by Butler—solid body, lethal 3 point shooter, the ability to score through contact in the paint, and a poised, mature oncourt demeanor.

He’s almost certainly a late lottery to mid-first round pick...but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go higher.

[NatP4]

I think Jaden Springer is the guy that reminds me of Brogdon. He has that bulldog type play-style, and you can find different wingspan measurements all over the place, but it looks like he has somewhere around a 6’7-6’8+ Wingspan.

[Ruzious]

I also have been very impressed by Butler—solid body, lethal 3 point shooter, the ability to score through contact in the paint, and a poised, mature oncourt demeanor.

He’s almost certainly a late lottery to mid-first round pick...but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go higher.

Still, a lot of the internet draftniks have him much lower - partly because he doesn't have the length of guys like Hill and Brogdon and because his athleticism doesn't stand out and because he's not a teenager. Like you said, I like the oncourt demeanor combined with self-confidence and all-around skills.

[prime1time]

Wagner is a better prospect than Hachimura and Avdija IMO.

A future of Haliburton-Beal-Wagner-Clarke-Tillman would’ve been pretty amazing.

In terms of Championship teams in the last 10 years what team does that even come close to? Not the LBJ/AD Lakers. Not the Kawhi Raptors. Not the KD/Steph/Klay Warriors. Not the LBJ/Kyrie/Love Cavs. Not the Klay/Steph Warriors. Not the Kawhi/Duncan/Ginobli Spurs. Not the Kobe/Gasol Lakers.

The moment you start talking more about stacking efficient players and less about overall talent, you have to be sure that the team you're putting out there is 1, actually fits together and 2 has enough scoring. This team doesn't fit together and doesn't have enough scoring. Neither Tillman and Clarke can pass, can shoot, can score, can guard scoring big men, can rebound. They don't even start on a healthy Memphis team. Tillman and Clarke are bench players on a championship team. On a team like the Lakers or the Nets or the 76ers they'll make a difference. But that team doesn't have the talent to get into that conversation. In terms of Haliburton, he's a solid player. But let's be honest. He's not Damian Lillard. He's not Kyrie Irving. He's not healthy D Rose. He's a guy who at best projects as a 3rd option on a championship team. And the same goes for Wagner.

Haliburton-Beal-Wagner-Clarke-Tillman isn't going to get it done. A better argument would be Haliburton-Beal-Wagner-Clarke/Tillman-Jokic/Embiid. Now you have a championship team. But here's the thing, how much do Haliburton, Wagner, Clarke, Tillman really bring? If you have Beal-Jokic/Embiid, you have a championship team regardless. Plus you have veterans that are willing to be paid less to compete for a championship. This is why wherever LBJ goes veterans follow like groupies. If you are going to try to formulate a team that lacks elite talent, you have to be sure everything fits together. And the team needs to be loaded with passers/playmakers so that there will be enough easy baskets generated to compensate for not having a top 5 player. Neither Wagner or Haliburton is a good enough playmaker.

The goal should be to build a championship team. Not to gather a collection of efficient college players.

[prime1time]

Not to keep harping on Wagner, but wanted to add a little perspective.
Wagner has a OBPM/DBPM/BPM of 6.9 / 6.5 / 13.5.
When you look at players in the last decade to have a 6+ OBPM and 6+ DBPM, I get 8 players (I excluded Seniors, because while Thornwell & Delon Wright are good players, I think being 23 y/o Senior skews it a bit).

1) Zion
2) AD
3) Brandon Clarke
4) Dipo
5) Happ
6) KAT
7) Wagner
8) Tillman (Twice !!!)

Every one of those players is going to play a decade in the league.
Only Happ doesnt fit, but he's a dinosaur. Traditional back to basket Center that cant guard on the perimeter, cant shoot, and cant make FT's.

Wagner may never make an AS team, but you cant bet your ass he's going to play 25MPG on a team in the conference Finals at some point. Book it.

The challenge for Wagner is to bring something extra that most role players don't bring. Like Draymond Green. Green brings elite playmaking, defense and is/was the heart and soul of those Warriors teams. This is the only kind of role player that gets recognition. All other role players are interchangeable pieces. Because what matters with role players is less the player and more the specific role they play. I would also point out that it seems to me that a basic assumption that people have on this board is that Wagner is a clearly better player than Hachimura. When I point out ways that Hachimura succeeds, good one-on-one defense vs, elite scorers it gets ignored. I will say this about Wagner. If he can't slowdown the Kawhi's, KD's, Butler's, Paul George's, James Harden's, Jayson Tatum's of basketball his value drops immensely. In addition, it seems to be a forgone conclusion that Wagner will be able to switch onto smaller elite guards and play great defense also. I'm not sure where these conclusions come from but if he can't defend elite scorers, his value as a role player drops immensely. Wagner's a good prospect but nowhere near the sure thing that people are making him out to be. Especially seeing how people are already projecting him to most likely be a role player.