The Official 2023 Draft Thread

[daSwami]

Whomever decided WJr. should represent us at the lottery should be fired!!! (or promoted, depending on where our pick lands.)

[gambitx777]

You wouldn't want a much higher pick that allowed you to trade down for Cason Wallace & also get another young prospect?

I've said many times I want a trade back but we have two seconds. I'm ok with taking Wallace at ten I like him a lot! I would rather have Wallace at 19 but I don't know if he will be there he might be drafter that high by someone else.

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[Dat2U]

Whomever decided WJr. should represent us at the lottery should be fired!!! (or promoted, depending on where our pick lands.)

What assumes WUJ represents back luck for us at the lottery? Why would he be any worse or better than anyone else they could put out there? You'd rather see Johnny Davis, JT3 or Brad?

[gambitx777]

Whomever decided WJr. should represent us at the lottery should be fired!!! (or promoted, depending on where our pick lands.)

What assumes WUJ represents back luck for us at the lottery? Why would he be any worse or better than anyone else they could put out there? You'd rather see Johnny Davis, JT3 or Brad?

LOL just put gill out there lol.

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[FAH1223]

Whomever decided WJr. should represent us at the lottery should be fired!!! (or promoted, depending on where our pick lands.)

What assumes WUJ represents back luck for us at the lottery? Why would he be any worse or better than anyone else they could put out there? You'd rather see Johnny Davis, JT3 or Brad?

Last time Brad was there, we moved up in the lottery (2013). So, yes, we want him there.

[payitforward]

I can't believe you are even discussing this....

[Dat2U]

Rough outline so far. Subject to change as always lol.

1. F/C Victor Wembanyama

2. G Scoot Henderson

3. F Brandon Miller
4. F Cam Whitmore
5. G Amen Thompson

6. F Taylor Hendricks
7. G/F Ausur Thompson
8. F Gradey Dick
9. F Brice Sensabaugh
10. G Cason Wallace
11. G/F Jett Howard
12. F Jarace Walker
13. G/F Anthony Black
14. C Dereck Lively II

15. G Jordan Hawkins
16. G Kobe Bufkin
17. F Bilal Coulibaly
18. G Keyonte George
19. F Leonard Miller
20. G Nick Smith Jr
21. F Maxwell Lewis
22. G Brandin Podziemski
23. F G.G. Jackson
24. G Colby Jones
25. G Jalen Hood-Schifino
26. F Dariq Whitehead
27. F Kris Murray
28. G Marcus Sasser
29. G Rayan Rupert

30. C James Nnaji
31. G/F Julian Strawther
32. G Terquavion Smith
33. F Jaime Jacquez Jr
34. C Zach Edey
35. G Amari Bailey
36. G Sidy Cissoko
37. C Noah Clowney
38. C DaRon Holmes II
39. C Trayce Jackson-Davis
40. F Jalen Wilson
41. G Terrence Shannon Jr
42. G/F Andre Jackson Jr
43. F Mouhamed Gueye
44. G Jordan Walker
45. F Julian Phillips
46. G Ricky Council IV
47. F Drew Timme

48. G Reece Beekman
49. G Judah Mintz
50. F Grant Nelson
51. F Kobe Brown
52. F Tristan Vukcevic
53. F Jordan Walsh
54. G Isaiah Wong
55. F Keyontae Johnson
56. G/F Kevin McCullar Jr
57. F Dillon Mitchell
58. C Ryan Kalkbrenner
59. G Mike Miles Jr
60. F Azuolas Tubelis

[doclinkin]

4. F Cam Whitmore

Talk about this.

I think Whitmore is one who may underperform early relative to players who go later than him. Sturdy, a little bit of ups, strong, a little bit of an outside shot and he's willing to take it. Defensively looks a bit footslow, laterally especially. He's one of the younger players in the draft but with a full grown frame, so his upside looks good. Young players who produce early tend to show higher potential to grow.

At the college level he can bang defenders on the inside to get his shot off, at the next level it won't be as easy, I see a few shots a game that will get smashed out of the air. Game log wise I don't see that he performed best against tougher competition, especially vs teams that have a big front line.

I like him further down, but I think he struggles for a bit until he gets a trainer/coaching staff who can hone his innate strengths. If he falls to 8, snatch him. At #4 though I have questions, maybe there is a short trade down from a team a couple notches back, willing to offer something for one of the other names available here.

I think I have Hendricks ahead of him. Even Jarace Walker, for different reasons, role.

[TGW]

You read my mind doc. What puts Whitmore in tier 3?

[Dat2U]

4. F Cam Whitmore

Talk about this.

I think Whitmore is one who may underperform early relative to players who go later than him. Sturdy, a little bit of ups, strong, a little bit of an outside shot and he's willing to take it. Defensively looks a bit footslow, laterally especially. He's one of the younger players in the draft but with a full grown frame, so his upside looks good. Young players who produce early tend to show higher potential to grow.

At the college level he can bang defenders on the inside to get his shot off, at the next level it won't be as easy, I see a few shots a game that will get smashed out of the air. Game log wise I don't see that he performed best against tougher competition, especially vs teams that have a big front line.

I like him further down, but I think he struggles for a bit until he gets a trainer/coaching staff who can hone his innate strengths. If he falls to 8, snatch him. At #4 though I have questions, maybe there is a short trade down from a team a couple notches back, willing to offer something for one of the other names available here.

I think I have Hendricks ahead of him. Even Jarace Walker, for different reasons, role.

I don't see the concerns athletically that you mentioned. I think he's light on his feet and moves well laterally. In fact, as much as I've talked about Amen as an athlete, Cam is not far behind and offers something Amen doesn't: functional strength. Because he has that athletic 'pop', adding that to his solid 230 frame means alot guys will bounce off of him on his drives. He's going to benefit from contact. I do think he could tighten the handle a bit but like Amen his first step is quite special and gets up on the rim very easily. He is going to create mismatches at the next level and he'll have more space to operate. Too strong for lighter wings and too fast for bigger ones. The tools are there to be a good defender as well. I do have my concerns as I do with any non-Wemby prospect. The unwillingness to pass, off ball defensive awareness but you hope those things can get fleshed out in his development.

I believe he's got top 3 physical tools in this draft. He also got a good compact looking release that looks clean unlike Amen who would also be in that conversation. His shot selection just needs to improve but he did get up like 4 3s a game. He's a potential scorer on all 3 levels and potentially a secondary scoring option with plus defense (i.e. Jaylen Brown).

That's why I like him over the Thompson twins. Jarace is potentially a good role player. I like him but he's one of those jack of all trades and master of none types. I wonder how he consistently scores. His archtype is IMO is Scottie Barnes but does he do those ancillary things as well as Scottie? Will his playmaking take a backseat if he's not a real scoring threat?

[Kanyewest]

4. F Cam Whitmore

Talk about this.

I think Whitmore is one who may underperform early relative to players who go later than him. Sturdy, a little bit of ups, strong, a little bit of an outside shot and he's willing to take it. Defensively looks a bit footslow, laterally especially. He's one of the younger players in the draft but with a full grown frame, so his upside looks good. Young players who produce early tend to show higher potential to grow.

At the college level he can bang defenders on the inside to get his shot off, at the next level it won't be as easy, I see a few shots a game that will get smashed out of the air. Game log wise I don't see that he performed best against tougher competition, especially vs teams that have a big front line.

I like him further down, but I think he struggles for a bit until he gets a trainer/coaching staff who can hone his innate strengths. If he falls to 8, snatch him. At #4 though I have questions, maybe there is a short trade down from a team a couple notches back, willing to offer something for one of the other names available here.

I think I have Hendricks ahead of him. Even Jarace Walker, for different reasons, role.

I'll just add to the Whitmore discussion as I watched a lot of Villanova games. I think his early struggles can be attributed to a thumb injury suffered in the preseason and not being able to practice with the team. He's had some decent performances against good competition (26 points on January 7th against Xavier, a top 20 team both times Villanova played them who eventually made it to the sweet 16) and some duds (6 points against UConn, the eventual national champion)

I think the improvement came for Whitmore in February once senior Justin Moore got back into the lineup and settled in- which was important because overall their guard play was very poor. Caleb Daniels mostly struggled as a 5th year Senior. Chris Arcidiacono was a below average starter and not as good as his brother. With Moore back, Villanova finally had someone who could initiate the offense- like Brunson he operated as a guard mostly out of the post.

Villanova finally started getting some quality wins against top 25 teams against teams like Creighton and Xavier both who made the sweet 16. Villanova was playing better defense over that stretch than they were any part in the season. Their chances of a postseason berth ultimately faltered with loss to UConn to close the regular season, and could not get past Creighton in the Conference tourney as Nova had already dug a deficit with their poor play during the first half of the season. Whitmore had his worst performance of the season against Creighton to close out the season, although I believe he suffered an eye injury which was stated as the reason why Whitmore didn't play in the NIT.

Anyways, the growth that I saw in Whitmore throughout the season was not necessarily his ability to create out of isolation but he often did a good job of picking his spots- often by attacking mismatches, cutting to the rim, or just generally taking quality shots. His defense seemed improved as well including a game against Butler where he managed to get 4 blocks, he generally seemed to know where he had to be defensively and was no longer an eye sore on the defensive end.

While Jay Wright didn't coach him, he did recruit him, so talent is there, it just needs to be ironed out. If he's able to knock down the 3s that can open up his game as he is ambidexterous and pretty bouncy. I also think he could do better with more spacing in the NBA compared to the rougher Big East play. Perhaps, Whitmore is undervalued because Villanova failed to make the conference tourney, although they were probably playing at a level of a deserving team to close out the season once they started getting healthier, Coach Kyle Neptune started getting his bearings as a first year head coach, along with the improved play of Whitmore.

I probably need to do more research on where he fits overall on the ranking but at last I'm glad that Dat has a more favorable review of him compared to earlier.

[doclinkin]

I don't see the concerns athletically that you mentioned. I think he's light on his feet and moves well laterally. In fact, as much as I've talked about Amen as an athlete, Cam is not far behind and offers something Amen doesn't: functional strength. Because he has that athletic 'pop'

I agree about his athleticism and innate strength. That's what is carrying him right now. He's going to test well in the combine and draw a ton of attention. I'd bet he measures quick in the shuttle run even, seems to me the lateral movement issues on D may have been a lag in processing more than foot speed. He tends to get caught ball watching, hoping to jump a passing lane instead of marking his man. Loses track of screens etc. Still when he does swipe the ball, he's quick about it.

But yeah, I have even more questions about the Thompson twins given that their competition was so meagre and those jumpers are a question mark. I know the competition Cam faced: rough and rugged Big East play. No idea how Amen and Ausar will do when they face real talent.

, adding that to his solid 230 frame means alot guys will bounce off of him on his drives. He's going to benefit from contact.

I think early on he will suffer from contact, since he won't be able to bully players at the next level the way he has in college. But if you draft a player like Whitmore it is based on his limitless growth potential. He does seem to have a Shawn Marion level of natural athleticism in a solid solid frame. I don't like his strings of single digit games, but he's young, won't turn 19 until summer league, so it's likely consistency will improve as he learns.

That's why I like him over the Thompson twins. Jarace is potentially a good role player. I like him but he's one of those jack of all trades and master of none types. I wonder how he consistently scores. His archtype is IMO is Scottie Barnes but does he do those ancillary things as well as Scottie? Will his playmaking take a backseat if he's not a real scoring threat?

Jarace is already a master of one thing: defense. Best defensive player on the number one defensive team in the NCAA this year. I think he will be a game-changing defensive specialist. Ridiculous wingspan, long arms and quick feet, he can defend 1-5 and never gives up on a play. Not the playmaker that Barnes is, and his rebounding totals look anemic for a forward, but watching film you see that's because he was constantly ranging around the perimeter forcing misses and preventing drives. He makes up for team breakdowns by defensing multiple players on a single possession. Looks to me like a potential All-NBA defender. If so, what pick is that worth in the lottery?

Watch on YouTube

[doclinkin]

I'll just add to the Whitmore discussion as I watched a lot of Villanova games. I think his early struggles can be attributed to a thumb injury suffered in the preseason and not being able to practice with the team.
...
I think the improvement came for Whitmore in February once senior Justin Moore got back into the lineup and settled in- which was important because overall their guard play was very poor.
...
Whitmore had his worst performance of the season against Creighton to close out the season, although I believe he suffered an eye injury which was stated as the reason why Whitmore didn't play in the NIT.
...

Anyways, the growth that I saw in Whitmore throughout the season was not necessarily his ability to create out of isolation but he often did a good job of picking his spots- often by attacking mismatches, cutting to the rim, or just generally taking quality shots. His defense seemed improved as well including a game against Butler where he managed to get 4 blocks, he generally seemed to know where he had to be defensively and was no longer an eye sore on the defensive end...

Good insights, makes sense, thanks.

[doclinkin]

Guessing I'd only seen the wrong games of Whitmore, I figured I'd watch the Big East tourney game against GTown.

Watch on YouTube

Mostly invisible in the first half. A three in rhythm, a quick drive to the lane; on defense, a couple decent slides to cut off passing lanes but got lost on screens about as often. Picked up a few uncontested rebounds in space. Stopped the final drive at the buzzer before halftime. For a top tier athlete he did not assert his will on the game, early. Started the 2nd half the same way on defense, lost on a screen, late to recover, his man hits a wide open three. A gift of a breakaway dunk. Picked up effort on offensive rebounding late in the game, my sense of the Nova system has been that it emphasizes everybody's responsibility to rebound and he willingly drives to the basket on offense.

Thing with Whitmore for me has been: I don't see the competitive fire that his highlights and violent dunks suggest. He's kinda floating out there. Blending in. To me he doesn't pop as a clear top 5 player in this draft. If I like him I want him lower down where I can pick up something else as insurance. Gamble on upside while also picking up a player whose game shows up in his total stats. Passing, defensive rebounds, free throw attempts, etc. Hustle stats that indicate understanding of the game and desire to win.

I'm still higher on Hendricks, Walker. Even if I accede that Whitmore's strength and athleticism are remarkable. Some team will fall in love with his combine numbers and pay to jump up. Given that I like players mocked lower down (behind the Thompsons, Whitmore, Black) if we were lucky enough to jump to #4 my read is to listen to the deals available and slip down a notch or two. At #8 I'd take Hendricks or Walker. Slight preference for Hendricks since outside-shooting Bigs have high value and high energy defenders are underpriced year after year, can be picked up late.

[NatP4]

What role is Whitmore playing in the NBA? He averaged 1 assist and 2 turnovers in college. Is that a ball handling/playmaking wing?

All the athleticism and flashy dunks, but he doesn’t rebound or block shots to be a PF in the NBA. His defense is average. Looks like a 3&D wing at best.

And we’re gonna rank him above Ausar Thompson??

[jangles86]

It’s pretty much somehow win the lottery and pick Wemby and change the course of the Washington franchise for the rest of history or

any of these as a helpful selection…
Scoot
Miller
Aussie Thommo
Amen Thommo
Tyler Hendricks
Jarace Walker

Anythinh else is a meh.

[AFM]

T minus 8 hours....

[doclinkin]

1. F/C Victor Wembanyama

2. G Scoot Henderson

3. F Brandon Miller

6. F Taylor Hendricks

(Amen/ Ausur Thompson) ??

8. F Gradey Dick
9. F Brice Sensabaugh
10. G Cason Wallace

12. F Jarace Walker

14. C Dereck Lively II

15. G Jordan Hawkins
16. G Kobe Bufkin
17. F Bilal Coulibaly

22. G Brandin Podziemski


27. F Kris Murray

34. C Zach Edey

38. C DaRon Holmes II
39. C Trayce Jackson-Davis


42. G/F Andre Jackson Jr

60. F Azuolas Tubelis

These are the players I'm intrigued by this draft. Not saying they are surefire better than the others, I haven't sifted through all the names, but these are ones that showed up in stat hunts and look good to me. And not necessarily in this ^^^ order.

I'm higher on Taylor Hendricks than I am on the Thompson twins for the simple fact that they are total mysteries to me as far as the competition level they faced. I'll be curious to see how they test at the combine. I expect they will pop eyes out their head, and teams will drool over their potential.

For me that means I'd happily gamble on selling that draft spot to drop back a notch and take Hendricks instead. Maybe I'd look like an a55 a few years down the line, I'm just confident that Hendricks' game will work in this league, whereas I don't know that I have seen a championship from an athletic wing player who can't shoot. Okay late career Andre Iguodala when he was a role player. Who else?

Scoot impresses despite this statement, since he reads as though he has a leadership quality about him that seems like players on his team will push to keep up. He has a slow burn version of that Westbrook intensity. The rage to compete. I expect him to improve and never be satisfied. X-factor. I think his presence on the team would open an exit door for Beal's contract, since he would need the team shaped around him.

Brandon Miller cooled late in the year with all the distractions and minor health dings, but was shooting lasers early on. Seems to me a player who can do what he does at the next level without major retooling.

The more I watch Hendricks the more I like him. Active, making smart plays, no lag time in his processing of the game, and willing to be in the picture on defense even if that means he risks being on the poster. That outside shot falls and is tough to block since he can shoot over the head of anybody.

Gradey cooled a bit when he was no longer a surprise and teams prepped for him, but he was precocious early on and plays with a bit of swagger. Gets hot at any time, doesn't take much to get him started.

Brice. Neh on defense or any other part of his game but tough to deny that he can score. Reminds me of Harden coming out of Arizona, high percentage efficiency even if he didn't look the part. Thick, but quick. Drops the ball in with touch. He doesn't bother to pass, turns it over when he does, doesn't do anything but make buckets, even against heavy pressure. Shot his best against his toughest competition.

Cason. Is around the ball when it matters. By contrast to a guy like Whitmore, Cason is involved in all of the action at both ends. Has game awareness. Looks the part shooting from outside. I don't like him where he is mocked, too high, though I have a feeling he slips after combine testing when other athletic talents and wingspan freaks climb up the chart. Still with a late 1st I get the sense he will outperform others ahead of him.

Jarace Walker. Raw on offense. But absolutely everywhere on defense. Athletic enough that there is potential to grow a scoring game. To me this is the closest thing the draft has to a Draymond Green. Stout widebody with fictitiously long arms. Willing passer. Ferocious defender. Might take him a while to fit in to a team but a smart coach will know how to use him and bend the game to his will.

Lively. Shows up in too many of my searches. Best 2 way rim runner in the draft. His Ortg to Drtg ratio is impressive. Long as anything, he will get a big lift at the combine. One of the few true 7 footers who can guard the outside switch and man the interior. On the same play. Really nimble feet for a 'footer.

Jordan Hawkins is a badass and a winner and a Husky and a local kid. Unimpressed and unrattled, shot better in rematches against teams who shut him down the first game, shot better as the pressure turned up in the tourney. Not just a shooter, does enough of everything else to stay involved in the action. Moves well off the ball, quick reaction speed. A more tough minded version of early Beal. Totally underrated in this draft. Steal where he is mocked. (EDIT mocks now have him higher after the championship).

Kobe Bufkin. He's new to me. I saw him on this list and looked into him but he's creeping up on me, I like his stat improvement from yr 1 to yr 2. Looks the part in game film. I'm intrigued, will look deeper.

Bilal, kept showing up in the spotlight in the Wemby watch. Young and improving quickly, a precocious defender which is a good sign. I like his signature out there, looks like he knows he belongs even while surrounded by older players or playing next to the Next One.

Brandin Podz: Slow looking but he knows the game, smart player, I get the feel he may convert to a serviceable PG even. Question marks on defense, but crafty attacker. I'm curious how it translates.

Kris Murray. A discount version of his brother. Never know, maybe you get the equivalent of Keegan with a coupon.

Edey. My man Zach. Look, the best defenders in soccer are not necessarily the fastest footed guys, but players who know the angles and play the spaces between players, anticipate the play. Likewise for Hockey though everything moves even faster there. Zach Edey is huge, nimble, determined AND I think we are seeing the league tip a little bit back towards Big Bigs. Embiid. Jokic. The Unibrow/LeBJ front line. Giannis and Brook. Yes those are all shooters with outside skill, however the new rules emphasis has made it harder for players to force cheap fouls, easier to defend tight on the outside. This gives drop bigs a little more time to react, which works well for those who defend by anticipating the play. Zach defends without fouling, affects plays just by being on the court, he cuts off angles by being half the angles by himself. And when he is beat he still reaches out and pats the ball out of the air. Also I believe we will see a premium being paid for interior scoring now that combo guards will have a harder time. Tall passers and even taller finishers will be part of the next arms race. Especially if they both rebound and anchor the interior defense.

DaRon Holmes. Rim-runner who can get the ball off the rebound, pass to the PG then beat everyone down the floor to finish. Improving shooter both at the FT line and 3FG. Slim looking but strong, good balance, a bit of wiggle to his game. Willing screener, even eager to set the pick, sticks with it instead of jumping to the roll, but makes a great target for passes into the interior, ready hands on every possession, can catch and finish one-handed. Pretty good footwork on the low post, even as slim as he is, has a bit of a hook shot, will pivot around the defender to raise for a dunk. Little bit of touch on his midrange shot, I can squint and envision a 3FG developing. He will work for it since he clearly loves the game, plays with competitive joy.

Trayce Jackson Davis. A pro's pro. Instant veteran. Does not shoot from outside, but does absolutely everything else.

Andre Jackson Jr. The workman's toolkit. An Anti Sensabaugh, not a scorer but a dirty work guy who does whatever else needs doing. I'd like to see him on the GoGo. If he can develop a shot then maybe he makes the Big League, but otherwise he will help the squad win at the lower level.

Zoo Tubelis. I only saw him in games where he was scoring with ridiculous efficiency. His outside shot looked like it was improving though he only shot one or two a game. But he ran fast on every break. Rebounded with effort, stole the ball well for a Big. He's among the next players up for the Lithuiania World Cup squad, so should get high level training in the offseasons.

I'm sure in this list I will miss some All-star that will appear obvious in hindsight, but these are the players that caught my attention this season. I didn't peek at Euro players much so I fully expect one to emerge that was in my blindspot. Combine numbers will surely reshuffle the order, though yeah these are not really in order for me. Except, you know, Wemby at the top.

(and even then I have injury concerns, but shhh.)

[DCZards]

Doc, I watched the video of the Walker defensive highlights that you posted. I want to like him. I was calling for the Zards to draft a previous defensive demon—Kawhi Leonard—and I thought Walker might be cut from the same cloth.

Then I noticed that almost all of Walker’s highlights were against NC A&T, Texas Southern, No. Colorado, McNeese St., Norfolk St. and Kent St. Not exactly your murderer’s row of NCAA teams.

[doclinkin]

Doc, I watched the video of the Walker defensive highlights that you posted. I want to like him. I was calling for the Zards to draft a previous defensive demon—Kawhi Leonard—and I thought Walker might be cut from the same cloth.

Then I noticed that almost all of Walker’s highlights were against NC A&T, Texas Southern, No. Colorado, McNeese St., Norfolk St. and Kent St. Not exactly your murderer’s row of NCAA teams.

3 Wins against Taylor Hendricks/UCF.
Played well vs Penny Hardaway's Memphis Tigers (2 wins 1 loss).
Won Vs #2 UVA (17pts on 6-11 shooting, 2-3 3FG, 7 boards, 4 ast, 1 block, 1 steal).


Averaged 4 blocks and 9 boards in the Tourney, with a 2:1 ast/TO ratio.
16th Seed Northern Kentucky (16 pts on 6-8 shooting, 4-4 FT, 2 blocks, 6 boards)
9th seed Auburn (7 pts, 6 blocks, 10 boards)
Great game in a loss against 5th seed Miami (11 boards, 5 ast, 4 blocks, 1 steal, 0TO, 16 pts).

Virginia

Watch on YouTube

Miami

Watch on YouTube

Cincinnati

Watch on YouTube

Here I think he would be an ideal fit next to both Beal and Porzingis. A big physical player who finishes well on the interior, defends inside and out, passes willingly and well, makes quick decisions with the ball, and has a developing outside shot so you can't leave him alone. If we were defending with Deni at SF, Jarace at PF, KP on the interior, and Delon on the outside, that would be a seriously tough wall to break through. An upgrade from Kuz in efficiency and interior defense/strength.