Woj: Deni to Portland for 14th pick and Brogdon

[Halcyon]

He's a nice connector piece that's probably like the utility glue guy in the best case on a good team. Worst case unplayable in meaningful games because his shot is inconsistent, which it seems like it is. I'm glad people are coming around to the trade now.

[Dark Faze]

I'm disappointed in him taking lets shots this season. The situation is really no different than in Washington in terms of the talent. I'm sure some of that is due to the shots not falling, but you can't let that get in the way of being aggressive.

Can't say I'm impressed with how guys are developing over there in general. It doesn't seem like there's much of a plan in Portland.

Looking at the caliber of players so far from both drafts since the new FO came in, you've got to think we probably came away in the top 3 of both drafts in terms of the caliber of talent we got, which is a big plus for our FO.

[nate33]

I'm disappointed in him taking lets shots this season. The situation is really no different than in Washington in terms of the talent. I'm sure some of that is due to the shots not falling, but you can't let that get in the way of being aggressive.

Can't say I'm impressed with how guys are developing over there in general. It doesn't seem like there's much of a plan in Portland.

Looking at the caliber of players so far from both drafts since the new FO came in, you've got to think we probably came away in the top 3 of both drafts in terms of the caliber of talent we got, which is a big plus for our FO.

Yeah, he just isn't fitting in Portland very well. Part of the problem is that they have a couple of ball-dominant guards in Simons and Scoot (not to mention Grant) who make it hard for Deni to get a lot of touches and make decisions with the ball. Deni is being relegated to standing in the corner like he did in his first two seasons here. That's just not Deni's game. That's not an excuse. Arguably, Deni deserves the blame for not becoming a better catch-and-shoot shooter.

Dark Faze makes a pretty good point that Portland hasn't exactly been developing young players well. They've drafted some talented guys in the past few years in Simons, Sharpe and Scoot, but so far, none of them have panned out to be the type of guy who can start on a winning team. Maybe they just have a bad infrastructure there and Deni is the latest victim.

[Kanyewest]

I'm disappointed in him taking lets shots this season. The situation is really no different than in Washington in terms of the talent. I'm sure some of that is due to the shots not falling, but you can't let that get in the way of being aggressive.

Can't say I'm impressed with how guys are developing over there in general. It doesn't seem like there's much of a plan in Portland.

Looking at the caliber of players so far from both drafts since the new FO came in, you've got to think we probably came away in the top 3 of both drafts in terms of the caliber of talent we got, which is a big plus for our FO.

Maybe from a talent perspective. But I think Washington may have been more ideal than Portland. I don't think Billups is a good coach- Keefe is certainly better and he might be possibly worse than Wes. I think Deni had guys on the team pumping him confidence. It was first Porzingis and later Kuzma. Not sure who is doing that in Portland.

Also Deni seemed to start to thrive once the Wizards traded Rui, I don't think the usage rate is going to be high on this iteration of Portland where their starting point guard is Simons, they have a redundant player in Grant, and DeAndre Ayton also needs his touches.

[badinage]

I feel for him. He’s a terrific young player, two-way player — and Portland doesn’t know what to do with him. They’ve got mediocrities jacking up shots. He should be running point. What a mess. I feel for the guy. Doesn’t deserve this.

So many teams in the league would be thrilled to start him at 4, and thrive. He’d be great here.

[payitforward]

Deni's a talented kid; his game will come around.

Would he "be great here"? Sure! Love to have him!

Would I trade Bub, a r1 pick a few years hence, a pair of R2 picks, & Malcolm Brogdon for him? No. I sure wouldn't.

[AFM]

I wouldn't trade Bub straight up for him.

[bsilver]

Having watched a few Trail Blazer games, the problem is Deni. Not the coach or teammates. Still playing good defense but outside shooting not good, and not finishing at the rim. He's probably not a good fit with their current players, but his teammates last year weren't good either.
But, there's plenty of time to improve, and he does have a lot of talent.

[badinage]

The problem is — their “scheme.” And also: their “philosophy.”

And by the by, I wasn’t mixing him into a convo about Bub when I said it’d be great to have him on a young, developing team. He would be. A much, much better fit than Kuzma or Valanciunas or Kispert or even Poole.

[payitforward]

...He would be (a) much, much better fit than Kuzma or Valanciunas or Kispert or even Poole.

Not sure what you mean by "fit" -- I would far rather have Deni than Kuzma. No brainer. But Kuzma wasn't bringing us Bub (& the rest...), & neither was Kispert. OTOH, Poole was untradable obviously. & I don't see the relevance of a comparison with Valanciunas.

In any case, discussion of Deni as a player would fit better in the ex-Wizards thread.

As to the trade, the only concrete evidence of its value -- actual data rather than statistical projections of what draft picks are "worth" &/or speculation about what Brogdon would or will bring in a trade -- come from Bub's play. There's only a few games in the books to date, but one can certainly say "so far so good" about Bub.

Beyond the analysis, there is the emotional weight of the trade. Obviously, we wouldn't be on page 29 of this thread if that were an insignificant issue.

To me the trade has no emotional weight. Zero. If we were depriving Deni of his ability to play, develop his career, whatever, that would be one thing. But, obviously, we're not.

Deni's future as a player depends on him. Just as it did when he was a Wizard, so it does now that he's a Blazer. I wish him the best, & I wish this thread would simply die away, as it is as irrelevant to the future of the Wizards as it is to his future.

Go Wizards. Go Deni. As to this thread,ras le bol, as the French say.

[Kanyewest]

...He would be (a) much, much better fit than Kuzma or Valanciunas or Kispert or even Poole.

Not sure what you mean by "fit" -- I would far rather have Deni than Kuzma. No brainer. But Kuzma wasn't bringing us Bub (& the rest...), & neither was Kispert. OTOH, Poole was untradable obviously. & I don't see the relevance of a comparison with Valanciunas.

In any case, discussion of Deni as a player would fit better in the ex-Wizards thread.

As to the trade, the only concrete evidence of its value -- actual data rather than statistical projections of what draft picks are "worth" &/or speculation about what Brogdon would or will bring in a trade -- come from Bub's play. There's only a few games in the books to date, but one can certainly say "so far so good" about Bub.

Beyond the analysis, there is the emotional weight of the trade. Obviously, we wouldn't be on page 29 of this thread if that were an insignificant issue.

To me the trade has no emotional weight. Zero. If we were depriving Deni of his ability to play, develop his career, whatever, that would be one thing. But, obviously, we're not.

Deni's future as a player depends on him. Just as it did when he was a Wizard, so it does now that he's a Blazer. I wish him the best, & I wish this thread would simply die away, as it is as irrelevant to the future of the Wizards as it is to his future.

Go Wizards. Go Deni. As to this thread,ras le bol, as the French say.

Nah keep the content here- for the emotional. Eventually the emotion will die out like the Rui thread.

[DCZards]

...He would be (a) much, much better fit than Kuzma or Valanciunas or Kispert or even Poole.

Not sure what you mean by "fit" -- I would far rather have Deni than Kuzma. No brainer. But Kuzma wasn't bringing us Bub (& the rest...), & neither was Kispert. OTOH, Poole was untradable obviously. & I don't see the relevance of a comparison with Valanciunas.

In any case, discussion of Deni as a player would fit better in the ex-Wizards thread.

As to the trade, the only concrete evidence of its value -- actual data rather than statistical projections of what draft picks are "worth" &/or speculation about what Brogdon would or will bring in a trade -- come from Bub's play. There's only a few games in the books to date, but one can certainly say "so far so good" about Bub.

Beyond the analysis, there is the emotional weight of the trade. Obviously, we wouldn't be on page 29 of this thread if that were an insignificant issue.

To me the trade has no emotional weight. Zero. If we were depriving Deni of his ability to play, develop his career, whatever, that would be one thing. But, obviously, we're not.

Deni's future as a player depends on him. Just as it did when he was a Wizard, so it does now that he's a Blazer. I wish him the best, & I wish this thread would simply die away, as it is as irrelevant to the future of the Wizards as it is to his future.

Go Wizards. Go Deni. As to this thread,ras le bol, as the French say.

Nah keep the content here- for the emotional. Eventually the emotion will die out like the Rui thread.

I was about to say the same thing.

[trast66]

Toumani Camara is really good, will soon be better than Deni at just about everything. I assume Blazers will trade Jerami Grant by deadline and Deni may fit better then as can be on ball some. I’m in the camp Deni 2nd most overrated player in this board’s history, after Thomas Bryant.

[bsilver]

PIF is fed up with this thread. In French no less! No emotional stake.
Nah, keep it going. It's like a mini staging of the 5 levels of grief (denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance).
We're now in the acceptance phase -
Maybe Deni isn't so great after all
Bub is looking really good for a 19 year old
We weren't really getting Sacrament's 13 pick for Kuz and could have gotten Bub

[closg00]

PIF is fed up with this thread. In French no less! No emotional stake.
Nah, keep it going. It's like a mini staging of the 5 levels of grief (denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance).
We're now in the acceptance phase -
Maybe Deni isn't so great after all
Bub is looking really good for a 19 year old
We weren't really getting Sacrament's 13 pick for Kuz and could have gotten Bub

I thought Demi was going to breakout, perhaps he still will when he gels with his teammates, but his weaknesses remain the same so perhaps a journeyman utility player is who he is.

[payitforward]

PIF is fed up with this thread. In French no less! No emotional stake.
Nah, keep it going. It's like a mini staging of the 5 levels of grief (denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance).
We're now in the acceptance phase - ...

Ok ok -- not up to me to cancel threads!!

[nate33]

One of my big objections to the Deni trade is I figured we could trade Kuzma and get the #13-17 pick from one of Sacramento, Miami, Philly or LA. But implicit in that assumption was that we would probably have to send our our #26 pick with Kuzma to make it happen.

At the time, I was not at all excited about Kyshawn George so I didn't think it was much of a sacrifice. I have been proven TOTALLY WRONG on that front. Kyshawn George is a really good player and I'm very happy we acquired him. His play is leading me to reevaluate my stance on the trade.

I still would have preferred to trade Kuzma straight up for the #13-17 pick, even if it meant we didn't get back that 2029 pick or a good player like Brogdon. But it's entirely plausible that that wasn't on the table. If the cost of turning Kuzma into a late lotto pick ultimately included us sending out our #26 pick, I cede that trading Deni for #13 plus the 2029 POR pick is a better deal.

[The Consiglieri]

In my case I was highly, highly suspicious of what I viewed as a bit of a homers argument to justify the trade in here that a speculative 1st a gazillion years from now, and a first in the late lottery in a universally ---- on draft class was worth much at all to a right here, and right now talented player I figured could be flipped for picks in a better class ('25 or '26) and the distant future. I didn't want more picks in a crap class, I wanted to jump out of a crap class, and focus on loading up ammo for a great class like '25. I have to concede, for now anyway, those arguing that the real problem in '24 was more about the cream, than about the depth of talent after the cream range appear, for now anyway, to either be right, or at least right about us. I didn't care too much one way or another about Bub, didn't hate the pick, didn't love it, with KyShawn I was more of a skeptic, he just reeked of a late 20s not moving the needle prospect to me.

Now we're sitting here, nearly 5 months later, and Sarr, while not at his ceiling at all, has shown an ability to play to his projected ceiling periodically on a dumpster fire team, which suggests to me that the odds are, he's gonna be better than floor projections.

Bub hasn't really broken out yet exactly, but almost all the returns since June are suggestive that he's hitting his ceiling and maybe more.

KyShawn is WAY WAY WAY better than I ever expected.

Indeed the payoff from the three of these guys has been alarming to me because I fear they could steal more wins during the year and significantly worsen the worst case scenario of the draft for me (finishing with say, 4th worst record so we can fall far lower than we could fall last May in the lottery). I thought a top 3 worst finish was a near lock last June, but having likely hit, more or less, on all 3 of these prospects, means to me, the bottom of the barrell projections originally, of 15-19 wins may be wrong. Probably, this team ends up being more of a 19-25 win team, and that team is not locking in a bottom 3 finish in the standings. As awful as it is to say, we may need to get smashed by injuries, even to our best prospects, to insure we end up bottom 3 so the worst case scenario for our top pick is 5th-6th (or ugg, 7th). Can't root for injuries obviously, and I'm not going to (though I would take solace in the knowledge that it would help the tank if it did happen), but at this stage, sample size remains way too small to get to far out over our skis, but it looks like this new FO nailed back to back disappointing draft situations with the Bilal, Sarr, Bub and KyShawn picks. Great for them. I'm hoping the emptiness of the roster in terms of depth and quality, the winter trades, ensure a 15-18 win season and a top 5ish pick in June's draft (fingers crossed for #1, but honestly, what I want most of all is simply to lock in access to what appears to be a loaded top of the class with one "Hope Diamond" level prospect, but a ton of generantional types alongside), and hopefully one last season of ---- to position ourselves for a bottom 5ish record in '25-'26, because if we get that guy in '25, then it wouldn't shock me if the earliest versions of a finished build ('26) are truly in the realm of possibilities due to this new FO hitting high ceiling projections with picks seemingly every time in round 1 and avoiding any net zero picks like the previous generation did with Seraphin, Vesely, Singleton, Booker (I know, but he was never a true difference maker). Interesting situation to be in.

I still fully expect the team to top out at 20-25 wins, but we need to hope they hit the floor of the total wins potential (which I think is still 15-20). As for Deni, I still view it as a risky decision and one I wouldn't have made, but I'm also a Bayesian, and I think they threaded the needle in terms of scouting the second tier prospects of this draft, and nailing two of the guys with super high upside). Gotta say, having Phoenix's pick swaps, having that distant first several years from now doubles/triples the long term value of what this FO could have done once they jumped onboard after Sheppared and idiot EG had completely wrecked any chance of getting the tear down right circa 2018-2022. It's been pretty amazing to see this with new ownership of the WFT in football, Boulez, and hell even the Caps are winning despite needing to do a tear down themselves. Truly wild year, '24.

[dobrojim]

Deni's a talented kid; his game will come around.

Would he "be great here"? Sure! Love to have him!

Would I trade Bub, a r1 pick a few years hence, a pair of R2 picks, & Malcolm Brogdon for him? No. I sure wouldn't.

I'd trade Kuz for him in a NY minute.

[payitforward]

One of my big objections to the Deni trade is I figured we could trade Kuzma and get the #13-17 pick from one of Sacramento, Miami, Philly or LA. But implicit in that assumption was that we would probably have to send our our #26 pick with Kuzma to make it happen....

Well I would have done that trade in a minute!! & like you I would

...have been proven TOTALLY WRONG on that front....

As to...

I still would have preferred to trade Kuzma straight up for the #13-17 pick, even if it meant we didn't get back that 2029 pick or a good player like Brogdon.

Again, absolutely, but I can't imagine that was "on the table."

Any trade is chancy -- especially a quality player for a draft pick! -- but Bub is looking like a truly outstanding prospect. &, to our surprise, so is Kyshaun.

&, as far as that goes, Sarr is showing enough promise that this is starting to look like a home run draft to me. A home run off season, in fact!