The Javale McGee Appreciation Thread

[dangermouse]

my $0.05 about co-ordination (of any type) = it can be a learned skill, in that it can be developed with a lot of practise, particularly the co-ordination needed for a particular sport. the more you play that sport the better you get. however depending upon the person, there is a cut-off point for how co-ordinated one can become. some people are just more naturally gifted than others. i'm 99% positive that this is due to nature rather than nurture. didnt you ever notice playing sport at school, there were the guys who were good at their own individual sport of choice and poor at everything else, then there were these kids that just seemed to excel at anything they chose to do. im pretty sure their talent came from natural gifts, not practising every sport every weekend. i was one of those all-rounders, i played basketball, soccer and cricket rather well and didnt practise any of those except for basketball because i played it outside of school in little league. take steve nash for example. they say his foot co-ordination came from playing soccer. ok, then where did his amazing passing, instincts and handle come from? i think that he is just one of those people that are naturally above average when it comes to co-ordination and balance.

my $0.05 on McGee not being/being athletic. well youd have to be stupid to say hes not athletic... and even though he fades in games, that is most certainly his asthma. you can be athletic as hell and still suffer asthma. again, this comes from personal experience as an asthma sufferer. thankfully, its something that you begin to grow out of as you get older, McGee should begin suffer from it less and less as time goes on.

[doclinkin]

Here's a few more minutes of nincompoopery. JaVale at Hanger Athletic in LA. Video here.. He definitely looks a little bigger, stronger. Apparently scored 49 points according to Bobby Brown. But BBrown scored 47 he says. Looking at the scoreboard, yeah no doubt, with 5 seconds left the score is knotted at a stingy 142 points apiece. Nobody was playing any defense...

Speaking of useless on defense, watch JV in this vid, standing around with his hands by his pockets, vaguely reaching for the ball as puny players dribble past. And on offense notice him standing around on the perimeter or way outside the paint on the baseline with his hand up waiting for someone to dish to him.

But the power and agility is not in doubt by any standard. That backhanded one-hand dunk is just jawdroppingly improbable. DAME!

Smarten up JaVale, you'd be an instant allstar if you played with a little savvy.

EDIT:

Check out Nick's floating 360 turnaround jumper. Ridiculous, Nick. He's got a career in the Globetrotters if this NBA thing doesn't work out.

[montestewart]

^
Some players are more gifted than others with size, speed, agility, strength, or smarts, but all are usually gifted with some combination of these abilities, and the most of the best players strive constantly to improve their skills, regardless of their natural abilities. Nash is physically gifted, but he also developed those gifts playing soccer, in college ball, and in the NBA. He has fun, but he works hard, and If he was just relying on what he was born with, he might never have made the NBA. Jordan and Bryant were blessed with superb physical specimens, but that never kept them from relentlessly working on their games.

McGee will likely have a long career purely because of his natural physical gifts. He needs to decide if he's willing to work to become a top player, because that's going to take work: in practice, in his diet, in the weight room, watching game film, and working with and even seeking out guidance from other big men or big man coaches (former all-stars or just starchy old coaches, as long as he's listening to something other than his own perspective). He has the physical gifts to become a top player, and a relatively uncommon one at that, but he's got a ways to go.

[closg00]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4587 ... ers#page/8

[nate33]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/458733-the-top-10-nba-fantasy-sleepers#page/8

McGee is definitely a fantasy sleeper. He accumulates stats quickly, and he'll get a lot of minutes because the team doesn't have any other centers. He's the kind of player that might average 15, 10 and 3 while hurting the team when he is on the floor.

[hands11]

The point is it takes a combination of things to be good but I believe what separates good from great has a ton to do with the stuff between the ears.

Here are some main categories about what it takes.

Athletic - Leaps, quick leaps, hands, speed, strength, quickness
These a physical gifts most of which are natural but you have to maximize them. McGee has shown the commitment to working out which is a sign of maturity.

Experienced - coordination, position, leverage, timing, etc
McGee is pretty good with his timing on alley-ops which he makes look easy but what he does takes a lot of practice and experience. His natural athletics makes this easier but there is a lot of skill there. He is even coordinated about other parts of his game. But he has a long way to go still regardless of which position we are talking about PF or Center. What he really lacks is experience and focus. But until is commits to learning the skills of a position that the coaches also want, its hard to judge his progress. I still believe he is focused on developing as a PF/C more than a C.

This is a huge issue I will be watching to see if they can get on the same page about.

Brain/Personality/Drive
The kid, while immature, doesn't seem to be a total knucklehead. His is one but I think it is mostly youth more that anything that would make you think he will be an idiot in the future. He shows drive. Not sure how smart he is. Doesn't look like a high IQ player like an MJ, Magic, Nash, Bird, Stockton, etc but he doesn't seem dumb either. Somewhere in the middle I guess. Wall on the other hand seems to be really mature. Its not just about age. McGee didn't enter the lead in the same mental category as a Wall and sadly he didn't join the most mature environment with the likes of DSleez, Mike James, Nick, Gil, OP, etc. Even CB wasn't at his best.

Mental X factor - Drive/Desire/Maturity
Again, I wouldn't score McGee high here. This is what separates average players from great players. He has some drive and desire but maturity is lacking. And its maturity that focuses drive and desire in the right direction. ( This is where Gil failed ) I'm not giving up on McGee. He can get better. He is still young. Some success doing the right things will give him opportunities to make good decision or fail.

Someone like Bird who wasn't the most athletic can still be great because of these last two categories. Even Magic can be great even if he wasn't as athletic as MJ or Kobe. But what makes MJ the best of this group in my book is that he had it all. Kobe has a bump in the road but he is going on strong.

So all these things matter, but you really have to pay attention to those last to categories more than a lot of people do. Those are the categories that can over come weakness in the other or propel a player into that top level. You can really get there without them.

Gil has almost everything except he had some weaknesses in these last to categories so he never made it to that top group. Lets hope Gil has exercised his brain as much as his body. That is the muscle he needs stronger more than anything. He has showed us he can do the other things.

McGee - Simply to young to judge harshly yet. This years should tell us a lot of what we need to know. He has freakish physical skills. No we need to see he has it mentally.

[Dat2U]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/458733-the-top-10-nba-fantasy-sleepers#page/8

McGee is definitely a fantasy sleeper. He accumulates stats quickly, and he'll get a lot of minutes because the team doesn't have any other centers. He's the kind of player that might average 15, 10 and 3 while hurting the team when he is on the floor.

If he's averaging 15, 10 & 3 then he's definitely not hurting the team. Sometimes I think we focus so hard on a player's weaknesses that we ignore their relative strengths. Yes he low post defense is generally atrocious but he brings a lot to the table as weak side shot blocker, offensive rebounder & elite finisher around the rim. He's generally an efficient offensive player and that should only improve with Wall around. If he's getting 10 rebounds a night then it means he's also making a conscious effort on the defensive boards as well.

If McGee puts up those type of numbers then it means he's having a breakout year and the Wizards are probably doing better than expected.

[hands11]

I think those number may be a little high for him
this year but we will see.

12-14 7-8 boards 2 blocks

But sure it matters. Just like it did with AJ. If he isn't producing more than he is allowing the other team to do then it is a net loss.

But it is an investment in his future where I expect that to get better.

Key is that he is getting 20 mins a game as a min average and that he is showing progress.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/s ... yerId=3452

[MJG]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/458733-the-top-10-nba-fantasy-sleepers#page/8

McGee is definitely a fantasy sleeper. He accumulates stats quickly, and he'll get a lot of minutes because the team doesn't have any other centers. He's the kind of player that might average 15, 10 and 3 while hurting the team when he is on the floor.

I think McGee should be an auto-include on every fantasy sleeper list (though I suppose he may not be sleeper if everyone includes him). McGee's problems are non-statistical, which only matters in fantasy if they wind up limiting a player's minutes. Considering our center depth this year though, there is little chance of that happening, so he's going to put up good numbers. I could imagine 15/10/3, with solid enough percentages and a steal thrown in as well, as long as his conditioning let's him play the minutes. Even in the worst case, you're probably getting 12/8/2.5, which is perfectly nice.

[nate33]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/458733-the-top-10-nba-fantasy-sleepers#page/8

McGee is definitely a fantasy sleeper. He accumulates stats quickly, and he'll get a lot of minutes because the team doesn't have any other centers. He's the kind of player that might average 15, 10 and 3 while hurting the team when he is on the floor.

If he's averaging 15, 10 & 3 then he's definitely not hurting the team.

Here is what McGee averaged over the 2nd half of last season in 21 minutes per game:

Code: Select all

Player           PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO  FTA eFG%  TS%  PER
mcgee,javale     8.9  5.6  0.3  0.3  2.1  1.2  2.7 .510 .541 18.0

His on/off differential was -5.1 per 100 possessions.

I think 15, 10 and 3 is within reach, but in such a way that he doesn't help the team much. Take last year's production and extrapolate it over 34 minutes, and it would look like this:

Code: Select all

Player           PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO  FTA eFG%  TS%  PER
mcgee,javale    15.0  9.5  0.5  0.5  3.5  2.0  4.6 .510 .541 18.0

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Out of curiosity WizNasty, does Brook Lopez have the raw foot coordination to succeed in the league?

I understand he's doomed to being an uncoordinated weakling since he came into the league the same age JaVale did, and only pushed the bench press 7 times, while posting an even worse figure on your favorite stat (last year) of lane agility.

Here's another question, who has the better ability to assess basketball skill: Rajon Rondo, teammate of Kevin Garnett and player about whom his coach Doc Rivers says he's the bar none smartest player he's ever coached or played with, -OR- our boy Wiznasty?

Because at the USA training camp Rajon said about JaVale: 'I'm sure he's the most athletic Big in the league', at least top 5, but probably #1. Vid here. Feel free to also contradict Derrick Rose who says 'he could be one of the best players in the league if he just put his MIND to it'. Mind, not uncoordinated and helplessly doomed skinny legs.

Thing I love about WizDy is even when he's wrong he's doggedly determinedly wrong. "And THAT's the reason I'm a Bullets fan..."

Chris Paul and John Wall also love Javale McGee.

I've had an epiphany watching Team USA beating Turkey for the gold in FIBA play. Coach K is using a perimeter-oriented C, Lamar Odom. He's wearing out, slow, but much better post player Erden. If I could be Flip and coach parts of games I would use Yi and Javale late in games against post players. I would ENCOURAGE Javale to develop his jumper and his hook shot. The kid's foot speed and incredible dunking prowess are already elite level for Cs. What he doesn't do well is dislodge, displace, and bang. Big damned deal!

Yi and Javale at C late in games can be hellaciously effective.

[pancakes3]

i'm pretty surprised at the general consensus that 15/10 is obtainable. if mcgee could pull down 15/10 i would have no complaints on the kid. the problem is, you can't put up 15/10 playing the way that javale does, especially on this team.

15 ppg is too high because there simply won't be that many shots to go around. with wall, gil, blatche, and half a season of howard, that's four 15+ ppg scorers right there, and that's stretching it (wall might not even top 15ppg). Mcgee would probably have to shoot darn near 80% to get 15ppg.

10rpg is also a reach imo. you could have all the jumps in the world but if you're not in position, you're not going to get those boards. Mcgee with his hair-triggered jump responses is almost never in proper positioning to pull down a board. Someone who can pull 10 boards a game is a pretty darn good rebounder. Plus blatche is there at PF pulling down boards at a pretty good clip himself, and Gil/Wall/Howard aren't too shabby at rebounding either.

i think mcgee's ceiling is around 12/8. his floor? around 12/8. like we've been saying all summer, he is who he is. he'

[hands11]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/458733-the-top-10-nba-fantasy-sleepers#page/8

McGee is definitely a fantasy sleeper. He accumulates stats quickly, and he'll get a lot of minutes because the team doesn't have any other centers. He's the kind of player that might average 15, 10 and 3 while hurting the team when he is on the floor.

I think McGee should be an auto-include on every fantasy sleeper list (though I suppose he may not be sleeper if everyone includes him). McGee's problems are non-statistical, which only matters in fantasy if they wind up limiting a player's minutes. Considering our center depth this year though, there is little chance of that happening, so he's going to put up good numbers. I could imagine 15/10/3, with solid enough percentages and a steal thrown in as well, as long as his conditioning let's him play the minutes. Even in the worst case, you're probably getting 12/8/2.5, which is perfectly nice.

12-14, 7-8, 2 blocks isn't the worst case. It's the probable case.

[Ruzious]

Out of curiosity WizNasty, does Brook Lopez have the raw foot coordination to succeed in the league?

I understand he's doomed to being an uncoordinated weakling since he came into the league the same age JaVale did, and only pushed the bench press 7 times, while posting an even worse figure on your favorite stat (last year) of lane agility.

Here's another question, who has the better ability to assess basketball skill: Rajon Rondo, teammate of Kevin Garnett and player about whom his coach Doc Rivers says he's the bar none smartest player he's ever coached or played with, -OR- our boy Wiznasty?

Because at the USA training camp Rajon said about JaVale: 'I'm sure he's the most athletic Big in the league', at least top 5, but probably #1. Vid here. Feel free to also contradict Derrick Rose who says 'he could be one of the best players in the league if he just put his MIND to it'. Mind, not uncoordinated and helplessly doomed skinny legs.

Thing I love about WizDy is even when he's wrong he's doggedly determinedly wrong. "And THAT's the reason I'm a Bullets fan..."

Chris Paul and John Wall also love Javale McGee.

I've had an epiphany watching Team USA beating Turkey for the gold in FIBA play. Coach K is using a perimeter-oriented C, Lamar Odom. He's wearing out, slow, but much better post player Erden. If I could be Flip and coach parts of games I would use Yi and Javale late in games against post players. I would ENCOURAGE Javale to develop his jumper and his hook shot. The kid's foot speed and incredible dunking prowess are already elite level for Cs. What he doesn't do well is dislodge, displace, and bang. Big damned deal!

Yi and Javale at C late in games can be hellaciously effective.

Since McGee is a center, it's good to know he'd be effective playing... center.

Remember, the NBA has much better athletes.

[verbal8]

Yi and Javale at C late in games can be hellaciously effective.

Since McGee is a center, it's good to know he'd be effective playing... center.

Remember, the NBA has much better athletes.

Overall the NBA does have much better athletes. However the Center position is terribly athletically.

I can think of only 5 centers that McGee would not have a significant advantage over: Dwight Howard, Al Horford, Nene, Splitter and Deandre Jordan.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Add Joakim Noah, if he's at C. Add Oden, if he's healthy.

Props to you, verbal, for adding IMO the most underrated Deandre Jordan.

The point is well taken that Javale is an athletic freak at C.

[dobrojim]

to get 15 ppg McGee is going to have to find a way to play 30 mpg

fouls and a general lack of defensive accumen could prevent that
from happening. I'm hoping it doesn't, but not that optimistic.

[Ruzious]

Yi and Javale at C late in games can be hellaciously effective.

Since McGee is a center, it's good to know he'd be effective playing... center.

Remember, the NBA has much better athletes.

Overall the NBA does have much better athletes. However the Center position is terribly athletically.

I can think of only 5 centers that McGee would not have a significant advantage over: Dwight Howard, Al Horford, Nene, Splitter and Deandre Jordan.

Nobody other than 1 poster in this forum has any doubt about McGee's athleticism. The point was - Odom fairing okay against foreign centers doesn't equate to anything meaningful in the NBA.

[VA_story]

It all depends on John Wall. I can see Wall pushing the ball and Javale can run the floor so he will benefit. Also, I could see a CP3/Chandler type relationship with Wall/Javle. I expect to see a lot of alleys. So with that said, I can see Javale averaging 10pts 8rebs. He needs to gains more weight and work on his jumpshot.

[nate33]

to get 15 ppg McGee is going to have to find a way to play 30 mpg

fouls and a general lack of defensive accumen could prevent that
from happening. I'm hoping it doesn't, but not that optimistic.

30 minutes isn't really that much. You have to be REALLY foul prone to be unable to average 30. I agree that he might not get 30 minutes based on defensive accumen, but his foul rate doesn't worry me.

Last year, McGee averaged 4.6 fouls per 36 minutes. Let's assume he can get that down to about 4.3 fouls per 36. For comparison, I looked back a few wiry young shot blockers to assess their minutes played and their foul rate:

Tyson Chandler in his 4th and 5th seasons played 27 mpg and averaged 4.7 fouls per 36 minutes.
Brendan Haywood in his 4th season played 28 mpg and averaged 4.2 fouls per 36.
Marcus Camby in his 5th and 6th seasons played 34 mpg and averaged 3.9 fouls per 36.
Samuel Dalembert in his 4th season played 31 mpg and averaged 4.2 fouls per 36.