2012 Draft, Part VI (Draft Week is Here!)

[DCZards]

I'd like Barnes fine - as a mid first rounder. He'd be a good fit here, but he's not a good enough player to pick with the 3rd pick.

You may be right about Barnes not being worth the 3rd pick...but then again you may be wrong. I've been intrigued by the whole Barnes scenario both on this board and among GMs, and guys like Ford and Bilas. Barnes was overhyped out of high school and then fell short of expectations at UNC with his Waterloo being the NCAA tourney. A lot of us thought, including myself, that Barnes had sunk to maybe a 8-10 pick. Now, given in part to his combine numbers and some people's belief that the UNC system was simply not a good fit for him, Barnes is back on a lot of folks radar screen, including my own. I expect Barnes to be a very good NBA...he may even end up being worthy of the third pick. We'll see.

[The Consiglieri]

Total nonsense, people are ignoring everything Beals ever done except what he did mediocrely from November into early Feb. Beal is the best shooter in the draft, period.

With all due respect, what are you basing this statement off?

Everything he's ever done, everywhere he's ever been other than that 3 months. Guy was the best shooter in the '11 recruiting class, has been compared to Ray Allen, even amidst a rough start at Florida, shot the lights out with team USA, shot exceptionally well down the stretch when Donovan gave him a green light, and told the back court to quit chucking, 42% from 3, and 59% from the floor in the tourney. Improved dramatically from the floor as he got more used to the chuckers working the point and the 2 beginning in feb. If people want to obsess about uneven mediocre shooting nothing like his rep in November, December, and Jan, so be it, I can't argue against that, it happened, just as Barnes supporters can't dry erase largely mediocre performances across two years, however, Beal played only a year and every single scout, GM, and anybody whose seen the kid play high school ball, team USA ball, and even with Florida down the stretch saw the stroke that makes them totally confident that Beal will be great as a shooter and that his struggles were an abberation, rather than the rule when it comes to what he'll be at the next level.

My concerns with him are largely the only "good athleticism, not great" comments from all the scouts and insiders that have looked at him and/or his tape. That bothers me. The shot is the absolute least of my concerns, and I will toss out metrics opinions of the guy that are based on numbers exclusively from his Florida career. If you call it cherry picking, so be it, MKG is a guy i can see the concern with, Beal? Not at all.

[Dat2U]

7-DD, the problem with drafting that Dre is that - if he does start reaching his potential, he'll be a free agent by the time it clicks for him. It's going to take him a long while for the light to go on. And then ya gotta make a decision - Do we pay 8 figures a year for a guy who's just starting to look good? We had that situation with Javale McGee.

ESPN Stats & Info‏@ESPNStatsInfo

Of the 125 players who defended at least 75 post-up plays this season, Andre Drummond allowed the fewest points per play. #NBADraft

I don't think the same could have been said about Javale in college.

[The Consiglieri]

not sure how to read this but it says Barnes is much better shooter than Beal and essentially Beal has no mid range game

https://twitter.com/kirkgoldsberry/stat ... 28/photo/1

Total nonsense, people are ignoring everything Beals ever done except what he did mediocrely from November into early Feb. Beal is the best shooter in the draft, period.

Dude, I think Beal could end up being a good shooter but its all a projection. What is "everything Beal's ever done" even mean? High school shooting percentages don't mean a thing. If you're saying to totally disregard his shooting for a majority of the college season because of what he did pre-college, I think it's unreasonable. He may end up being a great shooter, but you have to try to figure out why it didn't translate to the floor and could that carry over to the NBA. Is it his lower release, confidence, size, or none of the above? You have to ask the question and not assume he's the best shooter in the draft because draft websites say so.

High School, team USA, down the stretch with Florida beginning in Feb, and especially in the tourney, SEC, and NCAA, pure stroke, compared to ray allen in terms of how good his shot is. Yet I should worry about it because of a two month sample? Is it a concern, it could be, depends upon if you think its a sign of something, some flaw (I dont), or not.

You act as if his college career was 70 games like Barnes, or 110 like Robinson or whatever. It was 1 season in which he improved as the season went on, and then shot the lights out as the pressure increased in March (his lone awful game, against Kentucky, did distort his overall numbers). Every scout Ive ever heard talk about his issues in December/January claims it was basically playing out of position at the 3, with a pair of idiots running the point and shooting guard positions and chucking.

If you're concerned about it, and want to ignore the body of work that had scouts and recruiters drooling for years, so be it, they still are drooling now, and none of them are concerned, only some posters here. As was said by Ford today, he shot the lights out with team USA, and was given the green light to play his game in the tourney by Donovan who apparently felt that Florida didnt stand a chance unless Beal started taking the key shots, well, he was fantastic in the tourney.

Ive got a lifetime of sample where scouts and recruiters loved the guy, and a disappointing start at florida, I think people need to trouble themselves with concerns about things that are real issues: for Beal its a lil bit size, and more athleticism, with MKG its his jump shot, with Robinson its measurements, defense etc, with Drummond maturity, horrible offensive game FT's, with Barnes its his inconsistency, and inability to translate immense raw physical tools into actual performance on the court (yes, it happened in the '11 tournament, but other than that, not so much). Every guy has a wart, Beal does too, it just aint his shooting.

[Dat2U]

7. Golden State Warriors

Dion Waiters: SG, 20, 6-4, 221, Syracuse, Soph.

This has been one of the toughest picks to lock down over the last few weeks. As of late, Jerry West appears to have pushed this front office (and ownership) in the direction of Dion Waiters, despite the fact that he has refused to work out for the team and has not conducted a physical or even an interview with the Warriors. Surely this will set a bad precedent in coming years for how agents should conduct themselves during the draft process, which could cause some push-back from the league office, but for now, it looks fairly likely that Waiters is the pick here.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/y-sports-d ... w.UU68vLYF

Hmm.... interesting that West a huge Waiters fan.

[Ruzious]

I'd like Barnes fine - as a mid first rounder. He'd be a good fit here, but he's not a good enough player to pick with the 3rd pick.

You may be right about Barnes not being worth the 3rd pick...but then again you may be wrong. I've been intrigued by the whole Barnes scenario both on this board and among GMs, and guys like Ford and Bilas. Barnes was overhyped out of high school and then fell short of expectations at UNC with his Waterloo being the NCAA tourney. A lot of us thought, including myself, that Barnes had sunk to maybe a 8-10 pick. Now, given in part to his combine numbers and some people's belief that the UNC system was simply not a good fit for him, Barnes is back on a lot of folks radar screen, including my own. I expect Barnes to be a very good NBA...he may even end up being worthy of the third pick. We'll see.

I'll bite. What exactly was it in UNC's system that held back Harrison Barnes?

You can blast me for expressing my opinion, but I don't know how anyone watching UNC over the last 2 years couldn't see his obvious shortcomings. He was in virtually the perfect situation to shine.

[7-Day Dray]

^
He was the 2nd youngest prospect in college basketball. Of course he's going to be raw. And in his HS clips, he looked pretty coordinated w/ the ball. He'll be able to add moves to his arsenal.

Andre is taller, longer, and has a bigger standing reach than Shelden Williams. You don't need to have a huge verical if you're as tall and long as Drummond. And AD is a quick, effortless leaper. When I watched Shelden at Duke, he didn't look very athletic. Drummond is on a whole nother stratosphere athletically than Williams.

Motor is a good concern, not gonna lie, but I'd rather have someone that takes plays off but is capable of dominating than a hard working guy w/ much less talent.

Drummond's standing reach is less than Okafor, Bogut, Chandler, Howard, several inches less than McGee and Haywood, only 1.5" more than Marvin Williams.

funny how a guy with a screen name of 7 Day Dray is asking us to draft Drummond

If Dray had work ethic, he'd be an All-Star. You don't know how good Drummond work ethic is. I'm pretty confident Drummond's work ethic is better than Dray's Drummond reportedly lost 20 lbs since the college season ended. Dray hasn't shed a lb in two years. I can understand you questioning his on-court demeanor, but not work ethic. For all we know, Drummond could make a gigantic leap next yr. No comparison.

[Ruzious]

7-DD, the problem with drafting that Dre is that - if he does start reaching his potential, he'll be a free agent by the time it clicks for him. It's going to take him a long while for the light to go on. And then ya gotta make a decision - Do we pay 8 figures a year for a guy who's just starting to look good? We had that situation with Javale McGee.

ESPN Stats & Info‏@ESPNStatsInfo

Of the 125 players who defended at least 75 post-up plays this season, Andre Drummond allowed the fewest points per play. #NBADraft

I don't think the same could have been said about Javale in college.

I don't think Javale shot 29% of his foul shots in college. Don't get me wrong - I think Drummond could be very good - but... he ain't even close to being ready.

[Knighthonor]

players from each team telling who'd they pick if they were GM. Chris Singleton is out of his damn mind.

http://bbs.hupu.com/3896012.html

3. Harrison Barnes, F, UNC
Selected by: Chris Singleton

"We feel like he can play the 2 or the 3, and that's what we need help with," says Singleton. "We know he can shoot, and with the Wizards being more of an open offense, people can't focus on him; he'll fit right in with us." (Barnes scored 17.1 ppg and shot 36 percent of 3-pointers.)

Chris Singleton: "we should bring in a big wing as the last thing a winning basketball team can afford is for me to be playing a substantive role".

I kid, I kid. I haven't written him off as a rotation guy, but it's pretty hilarious to see him calling for a small forward to come in.

Beal, Chris, it's decidedly in your interests to pick Beal.

He does have a point. Wizards need a SG and SF.

Too bad nobody in the draft lotto fits that

Also what about using the 32 pick to get a point guard that can shoot?

PG that can shoot as well as a SF/SG that can shoot, and the wizards are back to a NBA threat.

[7-Day Dray]

7-DD, the problem with drafting that Dre is that - if he does start reaching his potential, he'll be a free agent by the time it clicks for him. It's going to take him a long while for the light to go on. And then ya gotta make a decision - Do we pay 8 figures a year for a guy who's just starting to look good? We had that situation with Javale McGee.

ESPN Stats & Info‏@ESPNStatsInfo

Of the 125 players who defended at least 75 post-up plays this season, Andre Drummond allowed the fewest points per play. #NBADraft

I don't think the same could have been said about Javale in college.

I don't think Javale shot 29% of his foul shots in college. Don't get me wrong - I think Drummond could be very good - but... he ain't even close to being ready.

McGee also weighed 40 lbs less than Drummond coming into the draft, even though he was two yrs older. McGee was a twig coming into the league. Drummond has an NBA-ready body.

[DCZards]

You can blast me for expressing my opinion, but I don't know how anyone watching UNC over the last 2 years couldn't see his obvious shortcomings. He was in virtually the perfect situation to shine.

Did I blast you for expressing your opinion? I don't see it in what I wrote.

[theboomking]

What does me comparing Beal to Hayes have to do w/ a Barnes v. Beal shooting percentage comparison? And neither player proved they were effective of the dribble last yr. Its not one or the other...

Why do you say Beal can't create off the dribble. He was pretty good at penetrating, and had a solid 2Pt%. Not that this is the basis for any kind of decent argument, but even ESPN's draft site listed "penetrating" as one of Beal's strengths. Makes me blush a little to type that.

Ahem. In any case, Beal has a very strong build, and god body control. I think he drives to the basket well, but isn't elite in this regard like EG or Wade.

[Knighthonor]

You know what, I don't know why we even bother. You already know who our pick is going to be, Barnes.

It's going to be the same story as last year. We'll hear the same crap about upside and potential, and how versatile he is and how good of a fit he is with respect to team culture yada yada yada.

Leonard, Faried and now Beal/MKG, talk about a bright future - for another team.

Doesn't that also apply to MKG.

He is master of nothing, jack of all trades. Only potential with MKG pick.

[MF23]

7. Golden State Warriors

Dion Waiters: SG, 20, 6-4, 221, Syracuse, Soph.

This has been one of the toughest picks to lock down over the last few weeks. As of late, Jerry West appears to have pushed this front office (and ownership) in the direction of Dion Waiters, despite the fact that he has refused to work out for the team and has not conducted a physical or even an interview with the Warriors. Surely this will set a bad precedent in coming years for how agents should conduct themselves during the draft process, which could cause some push-back from the league office, but for now, it looks fairly likely that Waiters is the pick here.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/y-sports-d ... w.UU68vLYF

Hmm.... interesting that West a huge Waiters fan.

It's not interesting it's logical. Jerry West knows what he's doing. I'm still pushing for Waiters and P. Jones if they Wizards cannot draft MKG. That could be a knock out draft.

[Nivek]

As Lamar Odom once said of Javale, the game is basketball, not run and jump. The game requires skill in addition to athletic ability. There's absolutely no reason Drummond can't gain the skill necessary to be a dominating NBA center. All it will take is extended, focused, deliberate work to develop those skills. If he's willing to put in years of work on his game, he could be a great player in a few years. But that's true of many draft prospects.

As for Drummond's physical attributes, he's an impressive athlete, but don't get too carried away. His standing reach is a little below average for a drafted center. His max vertical reach (the highest point he could reach) was about the same as guys like as Hassan Whiteside, Okafor, Jeremy Tyler, Bogut, Deandre Jordan, Lamarcus Aldridge, Joakim Noah, Amare, Brook Lopez, BJ Mullens, Tyson Chandler, Pops Mensah-Bonsu, Patrick O'Bryant, Al Horford, Brendan Haywood, Eddy Curry, Chris Bosh, Ruben Boumtje-Boumtje, Enes Kanter...

His bench press reps were average for a drafted center.

His agility time was excellent -- just a bit slower than Boozer, Jackson Vroman, Nene, Miles Plumlee, and more than a full second slower than Josh Harrellson.

His sprint time was very good -- about the same as Tyler Zeller, Bernard James, Splitter, Malik Allen, Chris Burgess, Chris Kaman, Al Horford, Plumlee, Chandler, Greg Monroe... His sprint was markedly slower than guys like Bosh, Festus Ezeli, Jeremy Tyler, Al Jefferson, Nick Collison, Deandre Jordan, Nikola Vucevic, Pape Sow, Kanter, McGee, Amare, Nene, Okafor, and Dwight Howard.

So yeah, the guy is an impressive athlete. But it means nothing until he adds skill. Maybe he'll add that skill, maybe he won't. It's going to take more work than he's ever done in his life.

[7-Day Dray]

What does me comparing Beal to Hayes have to do w/ a Barnes v. Beal shooting percentage comparison? And neither player proved they were effective of the dribble last yr. Its not one or the other...

Why do you say Beal can't create off the dribble. He was pretty good at penetrating, and had a solid 2Pt%. Not that this is the basis for any kind of decent argument, but even ESPN's draft site listed "penetrating" as one of Beal's strengths. Makes me blush a little to type that.

Ahem. In any case, Beal has a very strong build, and god body control. I think he drives to the basket well, but isn't elite in this regard like EG or Wade.

Beal lacks an explosive 1st step, and he's not shifty w/ the ball. I haven't seen all the stats, but it's likely his 2pt% will go down in the pros because the help defense will be quicker. His handle is solid, but he'll be primarily a jump-shooter in the NBA, that's a fact.

[MF23]

I'd like Barnes fine - as a mid first rounder. He'd be a good fit here, but he's not a good enough player to pick with the 3rd pick.

You may be right about Barnes not being worth the 3rd pick...but then again you may be wrong. I've been intrigued by the whole Barnes scenario both on this board and among GMs, and guys like Ford and Bilas. Barnes was overhyped out of high school and then fell short of expectations at UNC with his Waterloo being the NCAA tourney. A lot of us thought, including myself, that Barnes had sunk to maybe a 8-10 pick. Now, given in part to his combine numbers and some people's belief that the UNC system was simply not a good fit for him, Barnes is back on a lot of folks radar screen, including my own. I expect Barnes to be a very good NBA...he may even end up being worthy of the third pick. We'll see.

I'll bite. What exactly was it in UNC's system that held back Harrison Barnes?

You can blast me for expressing my opinion, but I don't know how anyone watching UNC over the last 2 years couldn't see his obvious shortcomings. He was in virtually the perfect situation to shine.

Sharing the ball with 3 other NBA prospects?

[tontoz]

If Dray had work ethic, he'd be an All-Star. You don't know how good Drummond work ethic is. I'm pretty confident Drummond's work ethic is better than Dray's Drummond reportedly lost 20 lbs since the college season ended. Dray hasn't shed a lb in two years. I can understand you questioning his on-court demeanor, but not work ethic. For all we know, Drummond could make a gigantic leap next yr. No comparison.

Any player could make a big leap next season. I don't see how pie in the sky hopes have any relevance when evaluating draft picks.

So Drummond lost 20 pounds after the season ended. That means he was 300 during the season. I dont see that as evidence of a strong work ethic. I am sure Calhoun would probably be thinking wtf, assuming this is actually true which it probably isn't.

[tontoz]

Presti checking out Beal:

Bradley Beal revealed that Sam Presti told him in an interview in Chicago that the Thunder were interested in trading up to draft him.



Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... z1z26PL9NS

[Ruzious]

You can blast me for expressing my opinion, but I don't know how anyone watching UNC over the last 2 years couldn't see his obvious shortcomings. He was in virtually the perfect situation to shine.

Did I blast you for expressing your opinion? I don't see it in what I wrote.

No, but based on your posting style lately, I'm expecting that you will.