John Wall is the best PG in the East right now

[Bigwig]

I really really hope that Wall continues to work that pick and roll with Gortat. It was a thing of beauty last night.

Walls court vision is just unreal though. I think it might be the best in the league. Paul is clearly a much better player and is leagues better in the half court and orchestrating an offense in general, but the way John sinks in defenders and swings the ball behind him and across the court directly in a shooters pocket is just unreal. He routinely sees opportunities developing on the court that I don't even pick up on with my clear view of the court from my couch.

With all due respect, you are confusing the issue. Wall only gives the illusion of unreal court vision because his vestibulo-ocular reflexes are so much faster than everybody else's. If he had Sleepy Floyd eyes, it'd be obvious just how myopically he plays.

And you don't have to take my word on it--just ask David Falk, now that he's been confirmed by unanimous vote of the Senate for a seat on the Supreme Court.

[B-easy]

http://www.nba.com/allstar/

Vote.

[payitforward]

I really really hope that Wall continues to work that pick and roll with Gortat. It was a thing of beauty last night.

Walls court vision is just unreal though. I think it might be the best in the league. Paul is clearly a much better player and is leagues better in the half court and orchestrating an offense in general, but the way John sinks in defenders and swings the ball behind him and across the court directly in a shooters pocket is just unreal. He routinely sees opportunities developing on the court that I don't even pick up on with my clear view of the court from my couch.

With all due respect, you are confusing the issue. Wall only gives the illusion of unreal court vision because his vestibulo-ocular reflexes are so much faster than everybody else's. If he had Sleepy Floyd eyes, it'd be obvious just how myopically he plays.

And you don't have to take my word on it--just ask David Falk, now that he's been confirmed by unanimous vote of the Senate for a seat on the Supreme Court.

Welcome Bigwig -- if you are going to be this funny, you need to post more often!

[nate33]

Oh my.... I guess no one else can be good, huh? And as to cherry-picking numbers, that's what you just did! Rubio has a terrible 2point %, you are right, but his 3pt % is better than Wall's. So you cherry picked the number you liked. And you explained away the numbers that RR has better.

Again, I'm *not* saying Rubio is "better" than Wall -- I'm saying that overall he's put up (slightly) "better numbers" this season. No one can make a final judgment based on this sample size. Not me and not you. Both terrific young players.

Sorry PIF, but there are clearly some weakness in the WP/48 formula. Maybe it's a good one overall, but you need to have the awareness to know when it's a bit incomplete. There's no way you can look at the numbers being put up by Wall and Rubio and conclude that Rubio is putting up "better numbers". It's really not that close.

You mention FT%, and yes, Rubio's is higher, but any GM in the league would rather have a guy 5 FTA's (per 36) at 83% rather than 2.5 FTA's at 86%. Likewise, Rubio's slightly superior 3P% is pretty much meaningless because Rubio shoots too few of them to matter. ORtg is a very accurate stat at measuring offensive efficiency, and Wall is comfortably ahead of Rubio, despite a MUCH higher USG%. They're not even in the same tier on offense. Wall is CLEARLY a MUCH better offensive player. Rubio may be better of defense, but not by enough to make up for the massive disparity on offense.

[Upper Decker]

I really really hope that Wall continues to work that pick and roll with Gortat. It was a thing of beauty last night.

Walls court vision is just unreal though. I think it might be the best in the league. Paul is clearly a much better player and is leagues better in the half court and orchestrating an offense in general, but the way John sinks in defenders and swings the ball behind him and across the court directly in a shooters pocket is just unreal. He routinely sees opportunities developing on the court that I don't even pick up on with my clear view of the court from my couch.

With all due respect, you are confusing the issue. Wall only gives the illusion of unreal court vision because his vestibulo-ocular reflexes are so much faster than everybody else's. If he had Sleepy Floyd eyes, it'd be obvious just how myopically he plays.

And you don't have to take my word on it--just ask David Falk, now that he's been confirmed by unanimous vote of the Senate for a seat on the Supreme Court.

This is the most WizD quote I've seen by anyone not WizD. Good work, BigWig, good work.

[pancakes3]

1 - Wall has a higher WS/48. Age-to-age Wall has always had a higher WS/48. Years in the league, Wall was behind the first 2 seasons but his 3rd (last season) is higher than Rubio's 3rd (this season). Season-to-season, Wall was higher in each of the last 3 seasons.

2 - Specific percentages from fg, ft, 3p is dabbling in semantics. You might as well break it down further and argue about heat charts and where certain on the court Rubio shoots better. The shooting debate would be easily solved through either efg% or ts% which even though JW is not exactly a league leader, he still blows Rubio out of the water.

3 - The only stat that Rubio even has a case... he doesn't even have a very strong case: passing. Raw numbers-wise and per-36 the two guys are fairly close. Wall has higher raw numbers, Rubio has higher per minute numbers for assists. Wall has higher raw and per-minute numbers for turnovers (slightly). If basketball-reference is to be believed, Rubio had more bad pass turnovers last season than Wall in significantly fewer minutes.

4 - Other than efficiency and passing, the other stats don't even bear mentioning. Scoring? Rebounding?

Basically I don't think you can even say Rubio has better numbers. Not from any vantage point i can see.

[payitforward]

Oh my.... I guess no one else can be good, huh? And as to cherry-picking numbers, that's what you just did! Rubio has a terrible 2point %, you are right, but his 3pt % is better than Wall's. So you cherry picked the number you liked. And you explained away the numbers that RR has better.

Again, I'm *not* saying Rubio is "better" than Wall -- I'm saying that overall he's put up (slightly) "better numbers" this season. No one can make a final judgment based on this sample size. Not me and not you. Both terrific young players.

Sorry PIF, but there are clearly some weakness in the WP/48 formula. Maybe it's a good one overall, but you need to have the awareness to know when it's a bit incomplete. There's no way you can look at the numbers being put up by Wall and Rubio and conclude that Rubio is putting up "better numbers". It's really not that close.

You mention FT%, and yes, Rubio's is higher, but any GM in the league would rather have a guy 5 FTA's (per 36) at 83% rather than 2.5 FTA's at 86%. Likewise, Rubio's slightly superior 3P% is pretty much meaningless because Rubio shoots too few of them to matter. ORtg is a very accurate stat at measuring offensive efficiency, and Wall is comfortably ahead of Rubio, despite a MUCH higher USG%. They're not even in the same tier on offense. Wall is CLEARLY a MUCH better offensive player. Rubio may be better of defense, but not by enough to make up for the massive disparity on offense.

Ok, once more and then I give up -- I didn't say Rubio was a better player than Wall. In fact, I said I wasn't interested in that question (and especially not based on 20% of a season!). What I said -- and it was true when I said it and may have changed by now*) was that so far this season Rubio has put up slightly better numbers than Wall.

To make this a little more graphic, I also didn't say that I'd trade Wall for Rubio: in fact, I wouldn't. And Wall is having an extraordinary break-out year. Moreover, even though they are the same age, Rubio was a professional basketball player when John Wall was a high-schooler learning the game. Wall is likely to have much more development left in him than Rubio.

Nor did I quote WP48; someone else brought that up. Nor is your point about FTAs valid -- for the same small-sample reason: how many FTAs did Rubio average per 40 minutes last year? The difference was much smaller.

Ok, done!

[nate33]

Ok, once more and then I give up -- I didn't say Rubio was a better player than Wall. In fact, I said I wasn't interested in that question (and especially not based on 20% of a season!). What I said -- and it was true when I said it and may have changed by now*) was that so far this season Rubio has put up slightly better numbers than Wall.

We've beat this horse to death so I don't want to spend too much time on this, but I have to point out that I didn't object to you saying Rubio was better than Wall because I know you didn't say it. I object to the statement that Rubio is putting up "better numbers" than Wall because I think that is manifestly untrue.

[20MexicanosIn1Van]

Yeah I'm sure. Both Skip and Cowherd have something against Wall.. they were the two major guys spearheading the "John Wall is a low IQ cocky selfish chucker" bandwagon in the media

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDHprQHg9eg[/youtube]

"He is not a gifted distributor of the basketball"

Man, I don't think these guys have seen Wall play ever. His two best basketball skills are his BBIQ and distributing ability!

Actually Steven A Smith nailed it pretty well.

Yea, I really meant Skip Bayless and then sort of generalized it to sports media.

[tontoz]

Ok, once more and then I give up -- I didn't say Rubio was a better player than Wall. In fact, I said I wasn't interested in that question (and especially not based on 20% of a season!). What I said -- and it was true when I said it and may have changed by now*) was that so far this season Rubio has put up slightly better numbers than Wall.

And that was wrong, then and now. Rubio is a low volume, low efficiency scorer who is more turnover prone than Wall has ever been.

[Bigwig]

In connection with numbers, I think we can agree that 8 is bigger than 5; it's just boring to point it out. Is 22/7 bigger than pi? Well, that's somewhat interesting to me, but I'm peculiar.

Is 8 a "better" number than 5? That's what she said, right, Donkey? Hmm, this hits kind of close to home, but I also do all the yard work and make waffles from scratch from time to time, so, all things considered, my wife is pretty happy. But, for the sake of argument, let's assume that bigger is generally better for the statistic in question.

Is mince pie better than apple pie? Well, you're probably from the other side of the Pond if you think so. And if you like cardboard with maple syrup on top better than my waffles, I'm also willing to concede that you're entitled to your opinion.

The trouble ensues when you insist that {3, 3, 2} is objectively a better set of numbers than {17, 1, 1}. Well, yes, if you multiply them, but, no, if you add them. It depends on your interpretation.

In short, PIF, your statements about Wall's and Rubio's numbers are meaningless unless you admit to a specific metric. Sorry to pile on like that. I do appreciate your kind words of welcome last page, and I likewise enjoy your posts.

[nuposse04]

^ What in the flying **** helll lol.

Generally more productivity at a higher efficiency rate is better in basketball...and most other walks of life

[Wizardspride]

Click on the link to read the rest.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/2013/12/05/ ... ing-gains/

On John Wall: Growing Pains and Growing Gains


John Wall has heady aspirations. That much he made clear when he abandoned the vague optimism and half-truths that define media day to make a sweeping declaration: that he’s the best point guard in the league. The Washington Wizards stumbled through the first ten games of the regular season, though, accumulating a disappointing 2-8 record along the way. The blame partially hinges on the Wizards’ once-shaky defense— now well on its way back to the league’s top ten— but John Wall and his wayward jumpshot were a definite factor. Plain and simple, his offseason shooting regimen wasn’t producing many gainly results. Ten games in, this was Wall’s shot chart:


To Wall’s misfortune, there’s a difference between a good shooter in an empty gym and one that can bomb atomically on live television. As goes with all kinds of progress, in-game improvement is a precarious affair. Per NBA.com,Wall was shooting 35.9 percent from the field and heaving 4.6 treys per game despite shooting a shoddy 30 percent from beyond the arc.

[crackhed]

dont' know if it was mentioned but wall's 360 dunk made the top dunk in Shaq's top 10 dunks - nbatv

[payitforward]

Ok, once more and then I give up -- I didn't say Rubio was a better player than Wall. In fact, I said I wasn't interested in that question (and especially not based on 20% of a season!). What I said -- and it was true when I said it and may have changed by now*) was that so far this season Rubio has put up slightly better numbers than Wall.

We've beat this horse to death so I don't want to spend too much time on this, but I have to point out that I didn't object to you saying Rubio was better than Wall because I know you didn't say it. I object to the statement that Rubio is putting up "better numbers" than Wall because I think that is manifestly untrue.

Look, here is the context re: what I said about Rubio:

There's no way Rubio is better than Wall. None.

Right you are: except for (per 40minutes) getting more steals, handing out more assists, grabbing more rebounds (including more offensive boards), shooting a higher FT%, and shooting a higher 3 pt %, "There's no (other) way Rubio is better than Wall. None."

Keep in mind that I'm not interested in who is "better" -- where "better" means something other than "better numbers."

Now, I suppose that despite my having responded exclusively to "no way" by listing "ways", and my having followed that up by saying all I'm pointing to are "better numbers" -- not "waffles are better than mincemeat pie" or even "Bigwig's waffles are better than TGW's waffles" -- I suppose that nonetheless my continuation...

Wall is playing tremendous ball. On the season, Rubio is playing even better ball.

...(by which I meant not much more than that they're both playing great) could make a metaphysically inclined basketball fan (but not anyone putting an analytical mind into operation) respond in horror that the things John Wall is doing best are not the things being done best by Ricky Rubio and that, therefore, the things being done best by Ricky Rubio are obviously irrelevant. John Wall's statue in the park is and must be the tallest statue in the park, yet...

...the corrections offered to TGW's "no way" were accurate. At the time. Should we choose to continue this, and I have to read more and more attempts to apply verbal polish to John Wall's statue in the park, then these same numbers -- even had they been chiseled into stone the day I wrote -- will have been by time's fell hand defaced -- worn away and the stone crumbled like the statue of Ozymandias. But, hey, at least...

I will have been thoroughly rebuked for suggesting that more assists are better than fewer assists when it's Rubio that has them over Wall, just as more assists are better when it's Wall that has them over Bledsoe -- as the same TGW did not hesitate to point out.

Note that this week I'm sure that "more assists" has become better, inasmuch as in the intervening days Wall's assists have edged past Rubio's. Right? See -- I was wrong, all wrong, and now I'm wrong again. Doesn't that just prove to a T how wrong I was? I mean... right?

[payitforward]

Oh, btw, a lot of you were adamant that Lawson wasn't playing anywhere like Wall's level. Here are their numbers:

http://www.draftexpress.com/stats.php?y ... 39%5D=1339

Which of them would you say is having the better season so far? (Here's a hint -- it's close but one of them has a clear if small edge on the other one)

[Knighthonor]

So what would Wall need to improve on to reach Prime Wade?

[hands11]

Oh, btw, a lot of you were adamant that Lawson wasn't playing anywhere like Wall's level. Here are their numbers:

http://www.draftexpress.com/stats.php?y ... 39%5D=1339

Which of them would you say is having the better season so far? (Here's a hint -- it's close but one of them has a clear if small edge on the other one)

Who do you think will improve more ?

Which do you think will have a better career ?

One thing Wall has added this year impresses me way more then the rest. Its how quickly he was able to add a polished pick and roll game including doing it with a bounce pass. The growing confidence in shooting the 3 ball is good to see, but I'm more impresses by the finesse he added in that P n R. Finesse is something that has been lacking from his game. Its mostly been all pedal to the metal.

Wall in my book is only about 55-65% as good as good as he is going to get. He hasn't put it together yet. Seems he is still just adding pieces.

[B-easy]

So what would Wall need to improve on to reach Prime Wade?

Prime wade had one of the top 10 peaks of all time, for me he was the best slasher of my generation. I don't see wall reaching that, unless he miraculously improves his handle and finishing at the rim in the half court set.

[Knighthonor]

So what would Wall need to improve on to reach Prime Wade?

Prime wade had one of the top 10 peaks of all time, for me he was the best slasher of my generation. I don't see wall reaching that, unless he miraculously improves his handle and finishing at the rim in the half court set.

mind sharing a video giving a visual example of what you are describing? I would like to know to see how far wall need to improve. I heard talk about the Wall Handle issue.