Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong

[milellie111]

Where do you guys jump to the conclusion that I called out folks on not being real fans of the team? i never said that at all neither was that my intent

Ummm....Do you really want me to point it out to you dude? Cause I sure will do it. I will give you a chance though to own up to it. Most of us love the Wizards but don't love the management. Is that a bad thing as a fan? I don't think it is. You seem to feel otherwise though.

Are you referring to when i said that you can't say that you support the owner but not the GM or the players but not the coach, you're either all in as a fan or you're not? I believe this statement is not questioning whether or not you are a fan, it is stating a fact. If you feel that you aren't a true fan based on that, then so be it. Of course we don't like everything management, coaches or players do, but we won't stop being a fan because of that. A true fan wouldn't say "well, until so and so is fired, i'm not watching this team anymore!" However, i've accused no one of that. What if the players approve of the coach, GM and owner? What if the owner approves of the GM and coach? You as a fan are the only one who wants change, however the team you are a fan of disagrees with most of your wishes? You can be so preoccupied with paying attention to management decisions that you have no control over that you miss what's going on the floor.

[montestewart]

Where do you guys jump to the conclusion that I called out folks on not being real fans of the team? i never said that at all neither was that my intent

Ummm....Do you really want me to point it out to you dude? Cause I sure will do it. I will give you a chance though to own up to it. Most of us love the Wizards but don't love the management. Is that a bad thing as a fan? I don't think it is. You seem to feel otherwise though.

Are you referring to when i said that you can't say that you support the owner but not the GM or the players but not the coach, you're either all in as a fan or you're not? I believe this statement is not questioning whether or not you are a fan, it is stating a fact. If you feel that you aren't a true fan based on that, then so be it. Of course we don't like everything management, coaches or players do, but we won't stop being a fan because of that. A true fan wouldn't say "well, until so and so is fired, i'm not watching this team anymore!" However, i've accused no one of that. What if the players approve of the coach, GM and owner? What if the owner approves of the GM and coach? You as a fan are the only one who wants change, however the team you are a fan of disagrees with most of your wishes? You can be so preoccupied with paying attention to management decisions that you have no control over that you miss what's going on the floor.

And a massive one! Honestly jayscott, did you watch the 2nd half last night, or were you preoccupied with ownership and management? Don't miss the forest for the fire.

[MikeTheKid]

Where do you guys jump to the conclusion that I called out folks on not being real fans of the team? i never said that at all neither was that my intent

Ummm....Do you really want me to point it out to you dude? Cause I sure will do it. I will give you a chance though to own up to it. Most of us love the Wizards but don't love the management. Is that a bad thing as a fan? I don't think it is. You seem to feel otherwise though.

Are you referring to when i said that you can't say that you support the owner but not the GM or the players but not the coach, you're either all in as a fan or you're not? I believe this statement is not questioning whether or not you are a fan, it is stating a fact. If you feel that you aren't a true fan based on that, then so be it. Of course we don't like everything management, coaches or players do, but we won't stop being a fan because of that. A true fan wouldn't say "well, until so and so is fired, i'm not watching this team anymore!" However, i've accused no one of that. What if the players approve of the coach, GM and owner? What if the owner approves of the GM and coach? You as a fan are the only one who wants change, however the team you are a fan of disagrees with most of your wishes? You can be so preoccupied with paying attention to management decisions that you have no control over that you miss what's going on the floor.

You know you contradict yourself a lot.....

[pineappleheadindc]

Where do you guys jump to the conclusion that I called out folks on not being real fans of the team? i never said that at all neither was that my intent

Ummm....Do you really want me to point it out to you dude? Cause I sure will do it. I will give you a chance though to own up to it. Most of us love the Wizards but don't love the management. Is that a bad thing as a fan? I don't think it is. You seem to feel otherwise though.

Are you referring to when i said that you can't say that you support the owner but not the GM or the players but not the coach, you're either all in as a fan or you're not? I believe this statement is not questioning whether or not you are a fan, it is stating a fact. If you feel that you aren't a true fan based on that, then so be it. Of course we don't like everything management, coaches or players do, but we won't stop being a fan because of that. A true fan wouldn't say "well, until so and so is fired, i'm not watching this team anymore!" However, i've accused no one of that. What if the players approve of the coach, GM and owner? What if the owner approves of the GM and coach? You as a fan are the only one who wants change, however the team you are a fan of disagrees with most of your wishes? You can be so preoccupied with paying attention to management decisions that you have no control over that you miss what's going on the floor.

You can't say you support the troops, but NOT support the Iraq war --

George W. Bush

[hands11]

It's one thing to post ignorantly, disrespectfully, and thoughtlessly once or twice or a few times. But to do it repeatedly earns you the title of troll. I'd be happy to see him change his tone; I'd be happy to see him show some respect for people who actually understand basketball, the NBA, and this franchise.

You, of all people, are complaining about another poster's "tone." That's laughable.

Good point.

Its often a challenge for any of us to see when we do these things ourselves. First thing that popped in my head was this...

The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People
Habit 5: Seek First to Understand, Then to Be Understood

https://www.stephencovey.com/7habits/7habits-habit5.php

Communication is the most important skill in life. You spend years learning how to read and write, and years learning how to speak. But what about listening? What training have you had that enables you to listen so you really, deeply understand another human being? Probably none, right?

If you're like most people, you probably seek first to be understood; you want to get your point across. And in doing so, you may ignore the other person completely, pretend that you're listening, selectively hear only certain parts of the conversation or attentively focus on only the words being said, but miss the meaning entirely. So why does this happen? Because most people listen with the intent to reply, not to understand. You listen to yourself as you prepare in your mind what you are going to say, the questions you are going to ask, etc. You filter everything you hear through your life experiences, your frame of reference. You check what you hear against your autobiography and see how it measures up. And consequently, you decide prematurely what the other person means before he/she finishes communicating. Do any of the following sound familiar?

[hands11]

PIF, that forensic dissection of "no one" was HOF by itself. I'll bet I could shoot someone in front of ten witnesses and you could argue it away (probably cost more than I can afford). And then that tone comment. Hilarious. Come on! Without the tone, this thread is nothing, but it's the thread that keeps on giving. Everyone's a star here, and millie ("I never questioned your patriotism") illy is poster of the year! Best thing since Ace Degenerate. Time for Hoopalotta to weigh in. Go Wiz!

That's funny. I was reading some of that and thinking something similar.

Like a defense counsel.

A lot of people here say EG has been an average GM, depending on time frame used to evaluate.

Some good moves, some not so good moves. From there, you can slice and dice things to meet whatever view you want. But people can be inconsistent in their methodology. If they want to jump on a player, trade or singing, they look with a small time frame. Or if they want to dump on the record, they use that when its down but then when its up, you look to something else or widen the time frame to find the supporting number.

Data can be manipulated to support different views. People do it all the time. That's why there is a saying...

Lies, damned lies, and statistics

Some use them to attempt to get the best picture of a situation. Some us them to twist it. And there is everything in between.

[hands11]

Where do you guys jump to the conclusion that I called out folks on not being real fans of the team? i never said that at all neither was that my intent

Ummm....Do you really want me to point it out to you dude? Cause I sure will do it. I will give you a chance though to own up to it. Most of us love the Wizards but don't love the management. Is that a bad thing as a fan? I don't think it is. You seem to feel otherwise though.

Are you referring to when i said that you can't say that you support the owner but not the GM or the players but not the coach, you're either all in as a fan or you're not? I believe this statement is not questioning whether or not you are a fan, it is stating a fact. If you feel that you aren't a true fan based on that, then so be it. Of course we don't like everything management, coaches or players do, but we won't stop being a fan because of that. A true fan wouldn't say "well, until so and so is fired, i'm not watching this team anymore!" However, i've accused no one of that. What if the players approve of the coach, GM and owner? What if the owner approves of the GM and coach? You as a fan are the only one who wants change, however the team you are a fan of disagrees with most of your wishes? You can be so preoccupied with paying attention to management decisions that you have no control over that you miss what's going on the floor.

I guess its all about labels but this does bring up the point regarding levels of fandom.

People do value their time. If someone loses trust in the orchestrator of a team, they may choose to do something else with their time and money. They may follow them less closely. I did that with the Redskins.

I was a diehard fan for years and followed pretty much every move the team made.
I then followed them through many years of the bad times waiting for it to get better.
But after to many years of not seeing the right kind of change, I lost faith given the front office and devoted less time to doing that. I would watch most games, but I would record more vs watching live. And some I didn't watch at all.

I was no longer a die hard fan. I was more of a causal fan.

[dckingsfan]

Any, lot of people here say EG have been about an average GM, depending on time frame used to evaluate.

No, most on this board want EG gone - only 4% want to keep him. And most think he has been a TURRIBLE GM.

I think the consensus is pretty accurate.

[ptptpt]

Are you referring to when i said that you can't say that you support the owner but not the GM or the players but not the coach, you're either all in as a fan or you're not? I believe this statement is not questioning whether or not you are a fan, it is stating a fact.

This statement is not a fact. It is very much so an opinion. YOUR opinion. And this statement very much implies that bad fans don't support management. You might want to work on being more consistent and FACTUAL in your analysis.

If you feel that you aren't a true fan based on that, then so be it. Of course we don't like everything management, coaches or players do, but we won't stop being a fan because of that. A true fan wouldn't say "well, until so and so is fired, i'm not watching this team anymore!" However, i've accused no one of that. What if the players approve of the coach, GM and owner? What if the owner approves of the GM and coach? You as a fan are the only one who wants change, however the team you are a fan of disagrees with most of your wishes? You can be so preoccupied with paying attention to management decisions that you have no control over that you miss what's going on the floor.

Do you even watch the game threads bro? Do you see anyone missing what's going on in the game? I even vented a little bit and gave a reason why folks aren't so excited about the season. I see you politely brushed that reasoning off though. But in the meantime bro, you might want to stop saying things that might incite negativity in people like this:

From the tone of many, you would think that this franchise is in such as a state as the Detroit Pistons. We are still over .500 and in the playoffs. Yet, I don't see any fans jumping on board. Trust me, there are many more excited fans of this team than the handful of grumps that post here and want to fire everyone. I see them making noise at the Verizon Center. They are REAL fans.

And making up threads called "Blame yourselves for mediocrity?" Really bro?

You want someone to blame? Blame yourselves, the fans. The Wizards might as well be playing the game in Boston. There is no homecourt advantage whatsoever here because of these lousy Washington area fans. How the home team starts out depends alot on the support from the fans. Some Wizards fans dont even arrive at the game till after halftime. Some are fooling around on the Acela lounge or in the hallways focused on stuffing their faces with chicken tenders or what cocktail to buy. Some have their faces buried in their Blackberry or iphone handling business matters. Some just show up to the game because its just something to do, like going to the movies. The rest just dont feel like coming out in the cold so they sell their tickets cheap on craigslist to some beer pocket hobo who knows nothing about basketball and just wants to get out of the house and show his girlfriend a good time. This is NOT a basketball city and the players know this. They can fell the energy when no one cheers for them until the 4th quarter and they are leading. The players owe the fans something? Well it works both ways. Its not like this team doesnt have a superstar (Wall) or players to get excited over (Beal, Ariza,Nene) or is 5th PLACE IN THE EAST!!

[closg00]

Any, lot of people here say EG have been about an average GM, depending on time frame used to evaluate.

No, most on this board want EG gone - only 4% want to keep him. And most think he has been a TURRIBLE GM.

I think the consensus is pretty accurate.

Hands , you are the ONLY guy on the board to state this^. These words have been your rallying cry for Ernie for quite a a while no-matter how-many times your argument gets destroyed.

[pineappleheadindc]

Any, lot of people here say EG have been about an average GM, depending on time frame used to evaluate.

No, most on this board want EG gone - only 4% want to keep him. And most think he has been a TURRIBLE GM.

I think the consensus is pretty accurate.

Hands , you are the ONLY guy on the board to state this^. These words have been your rallying cry for Ernie for quite a a while no-matter how-many times your argument gets destroyed.

Total irony that he dare quote Dr. Covey about "seeking to understand before being understood" a few posts up, but he never bothers to try and understand what everyone else is saying.

[tontoz]

No, most on this board want EG gone - only 4% want to keep him. And most think he has been a TURRIBLE GM.

I think the consensus is pretty accurate.

Hands , you are the ONLY guy on the board to state this^. These words have been your rallying cry for Ernie for quite a a while no-matter how-many times your argument gets destroyed.

Total irony that he dare quote Dr. Covey about "seeking to understand before being understood" a few posts up, but he never bothers to try and understand what everyone else is saying.

He also doesn't understand the difference between loss, lose and loose.

[dobrojim]

Over the last 10 games;

Wizards 5 wins, 5 losses
Bobcats 6 wins, 4 losses
Nets 7 wins, 3 losses

with posts like that, you're definitely not a real fan. Take that!

[Nivek]

I must be a really crappy fan of the Washington football team. I dislike the team name, and I've viewed the management as incompetent for the most of the last couple decades.

[dobrojim]

I must be a really crappy fan of the Washington football team. I dislike the team name, and I've viewed the management as incompetent for the most of the last couple decades.

but at least you didn't jump ship and become a Plowboyz fan

ob EG factoid
3rd worst winning % during tenure
45 win peak season

[Nivek]

DC sports teams and their relative league ranks in winning percentage since Snyder bought the football team, since Leonsis bought the hockey team, since the baseball team moved to DC from Montreal and since Grunfeld became Wizards GM.

Code: Select all

FRANCH          RANK    TEAMS   %-ile   SINCE
Football        26      32      19      1999-00
Hockey          11      30      63      1999-00
Baseball        25      30      17      2005
Basketball      28      30      7       2003-04


So, the football team ranks 26th out of 32 teams in winning percentage. And so on.

[LyricalRico]

You do realize that the local team with the highest percentage on that list is also owned by Ted? So we're on the right track!

[Nivek]

You do realize that the local team with the highest percentage on that list is also owned by Ted? So we're on the right track!

[montestewart]

You do realize that the local team with the highest percentage on that list is also owned by Ted? So we're on the right track!

Absolutely incorrigible

[milellie111]

I must be a really crappy fan of the Washington football team. I dislike the team name, and I've viewed the management as incompetent for the most of the last couple decades.

but at least you didn't jump ship and become a Plowboyz fan

ob EG factoid
3rd worst winning % during tenure
45 win peak season

Does that % take into account all of the unfortunate injuries to key players over the years, something that no GM has any control over? Just saying.