Is Wall Top 5 PG?

[tontoz]

Wall's TS of 51% ranks 51st among pgs.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/trueShootingPct/page/2

and his turnover rate of 12.2 ranks 49th

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/turnoverRatio/order/false

Those are two pretty big problems.

If you took a poll on the general board it is no sure thing that Wall would be top 5.Obviously Curry, Paul and Westbrook are locks. But Lilliard, Lowry, Isiah, and Jackson would be sure to get votes.

Lowry has a very legit case to being better than Wall. His TS is 8% higher than Wall, his turnover rate is lower and his RPM is far better than Wall.

I see Wall as 6th at best for this season anyway. Having said that Wall is the least of our problems.

[CobraCommander]

Wall's TS of 51% ranks 51st among pgs.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/trueShootingPct/page/2

and his turnover rate of 12.2 ranks 49th

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/turnoverRatio/order/false

Those are two pretty big problems.

If you took a poll on the general board it is no sure thing that Wall would be top 5.Obviously Curry, Paul and Westbrook are locks. But Lilliard, Lowry, Isiah, and Jackson would be sure to get votes.

Lowry has a very legit case to being better than Wall. His TS is 8% higher than Wall, his turnover rate is lower and his RPM is far better than Wall.

I see Wall as 6th at best for this season anyway. Having said that Wall is the least of our problems.

Keeping in mind that Wall is the least of our problems by a wide margin and for the sake of it being pre-tip off of the rematch GS/OKC...

I look at the top 5 a different way- it's completely hypothetical but it serves me and it simply this.

Would the Wiz be better or worse today if they traded for any of the other Point Guards you have rated 1-5. Would the Wiz be better or worse tomorrow is another question all together. So today...I think the wiz would be better with Curry an Westbrook but other than that...I won't argue for or against CP3- because what he does with ball protection more than covers up for his lack of speed, size and quickness on defense. Lillard is a shoot first point and wall is a pass first- there are nights when Lillard would serve us more than wall because he could take over when people shots are not falling. Like the Chicago game. But if you play with Lillard we may not find out if your shot if falling cause he gonna get his shots up night in and night out. I wouldn't argue against Lillard being better OR worse than John- they are just different. Lowery is good but not great- he has great nights...but in a play off series- when teams can game plan him...he can be outsmarted and outplayed. Last year he got punked, outplayed and swept. Play off series matter...so Wall has that on Lowery- till he doesn't.

[deneem4]

Wall is our best defender and offensive player...
Curry and weSt brook are mentally in another tier....

But none of those top 5 pg shoulder the offensive and defensive load of the team...
Curry klay draymond
Westbrook durant
Paul Jordan (Redick this year)
Lowry Derozan
Lillard McCollum
It braldey crowder

Wall gortat???beal???

Wall doesn't get the chance to coast on any possessions
We don't have ariza or Pierce this year...
Ariza used to lead us defensively along with nene and before that okafor...Ariza gone, nene is in and out when it comes to giving effort

They're not 1b on this team this year because of Beals injuries...without beal there's barely a 2nd option because gortat isnt a scorer without wall nor is he a top defender to make up for it...

Curry and westbrook are ahead of wall...but if you put Chris Paul here this year, I don't see a difference in outcome...
We will get worst with Lillard only defensively, but it may still workout
Lowry is OK but he won't get us the looks we need for the rest of the team to flourish

Switch wall onto the clippers, they're just as deadly or more....Wall can get out and run with dj every play
Wall on the blazers is debatable, but he may turn aminu into full blown ariza
Wall on the Raptors is a real contender...

Top 5
Curry
Westbrook
3aPaul
3bwall
3clillard

No offense to Lowry or it....even though it can be iverson in the right environment

[tontoz]

Wall's TS of 51% ranks 51st among pgs.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/trueShootingPct/page/2

and his turnover rate of 12.2 ranks 49th

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/turnoverRatio/order/false

Those are two pretty big problems.

If you took a poll on the general board it is no sure thing that Wall would be top 5.Obviously Curry, Paul and Westbrook are locks. But Lilliard, Lowry, Isiah, and Jackson would be sure to get votes.

Lowry has a very legit case to being better than Wall. His TS is 8% higher than Wall, his turnover rate is lower and his RPM is far better than Wall.

I see Wall as 6th at best for this season anyway. Having said that Wall is the least of our problems.

Keeping in mind that Wall is the least of our problems by a wide margin and for the sake of it being pre-tip off of the rematch GS/OKC...

I look at the top 5 a different way- it's completely hypothetical but it serves me and it simply this.

Would the Wiz be better or worse today if they traded for any of the other Point Guards you have rated 1-5. Would the Wiz be better or worse tomorrow is another question all together. So today...I think the wiz would be better with Curry an Westbrook but other than that...I won't argue for or against CP3- because what he does with ball protection more than covers up for his lack of speed, size and quickness on defense. Lillard is a shoot first point and wall is a pass first- there are nights when Lillard would serve us more than wall because he could take over when people shots are not falling. Like the Chicago game. But if you play with Lillard we may not find out if your shot if falling cause he gonna get his shots up night in and night out. I wouldn't argue against Lillard being better OR worse than John- they are just different. Lowery is good but not great- he has great nights...but in a play off series- when teams can game plan him...he can be outsmarted and outplayed. Last year he got punked, outplayed and swept. Play off series matter...so Wall has that on Lowery- till he doesn't.

Lowry was playing hurt in the playoffs last year. He was out 9 games in the month leading up to the playoffs. And Wall's playoff record is not great. He shot 39% against the Raps. Pierce was the guy who killed the Raps.

Lowry's RPM is 7.12. Wall's is 3.45. Lowry's ORTG is 117. Wall's is 102. The only advantage Wall has over Lowry is assists.

[nate33]

Wall's TS of 51% ranks 51st among pgs.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/trueShootingPct/page/2

and his turnover rate of 12.2 ranks 49th

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/turnoverRatio/order/false

Those are two pretty big problems.

If you took a poll on the general board it is no sure thing that Wall would be top 5.Obviously Curry, Paul and Westbrook are locks. But Lilliard, Lowry, Isiah, and Jackson would be sure to get votes.

Lowry has a very legit case to being better than Wall. His TS is 8% higher than Wall, his turnover rate is lower and his RPM is far better than Wall.

I see Wall as 6th at best for this season anyway. Having said that Wall is the least of our problems.

Yeah, I was hoping to see a big leap out of Wall this season since we went to a 4-out lineup, but it never happened. Statistically, Wall isn't even as good as he was last year when he had a clogged lane. It's difficult to come up with an "intangibles" argument that causes him to leapfrog Lowry or Lilliard.

[CobraCommander]

Wall's TS of 51% ranks 51st among pgs.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/trueShootingPct/page/2

and his turnover rate of 12.2 ranks 49th

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/turnoverRatio/order/false

Those are two pretty big problems.

If you took a poll on the general board it is no sure thing that Wall would be top 5.Obviously Curry, Paul and Westbrook are locks. But Lilliard, Lowry, Isiah, and Jackson would be sure to get votes.

Lowry has a very legit case to being better than Wall. His TS is 8% higher than Wall, his turnover rate is lower and his RPM is far better than Wall.

I see Wall as 6th at best for this season anyway. Having said that Wall is the least of our problems.

Keeping in mind that Wall is the least of our problems by a wide margin and for the sake of it being pre-tip off of the rematch GS/OKC...

I look at the top 5 a different way- it's completely hypothetical but it serves me and it simply this.

Would the Wiz be better or worse today if they traded for any of the other Point Guards you have rated 1-5. Would the Wiz be better or worse tomorrow is another question all together. So today...I think the wiz would be better with Curry an Westbrook but other than that...I won't argue for or against CP3- because what he does with ball protection more than covers up for his lack of speed, size and quickness on defense. Lillard is a shoot first point and wall is a pass first- there are nights when Lillard would serve us more than wall because he could take over when people shots are not falling. Like the Chicago game. But if you play with Lillard we may not find out if your shot if falling cause he gonna get his shots up night in and night out. I wouldn't argue against Lillard being better OR worse than John- they are just different. Lowery is good but not great- he has great nights...but in a play off series- when teams can game plan him...he can be outsmarted and outplayed. Last year he got punked, outplayed and swept. Play off series matter...so Wall has that on Lowery- till he doesn't.

Lowry was playing hurt in the playoffs last year. He was out 9 games in the month leading up to the playoffs. And Wall's playoff record is not great. He shot 39% against the Raps. Pierce was the guy who killed the Raps.

Lowry's RPM is 7.12. Wall's is 3.45. Lowry's ORTG is 117. Wall's is 102. The only advantage Wall has over Lowry is assists.

Would you trade Kyle for Wall straight up? Do you think Wiz would be better with Lowery?


W

[Kanyewest]

The problem with Wall is that he didn't show up in shape in November. He may be playing like a top 3-4 point guard lately but now Wall has to play at a higher level given how badly he played to start the season.

[CobraCommander]

Wall is our best defender and offensive player...
Curry and weSt brook are mentally in another tier....

But none of those top 5 pg shoulder the offensive and defensive load of the team...
Curry klay draymond
Westbrook durant
Paul Jordan (Redick this year)
Lowry Derozan
Lillard McCollum
It braldey crowder

Wall gortat???beal???

Wall doesn't get the chance to coast on any possessions
We don't have ariza or Pierce this year...
Ariza used to lead us defensively along with nene and before that okafor...Ariza gone, nene is in and out when it comes to giving effort

They're not 1b on this team this year because of Beals injuries...without beal there's barely a 2nd option because gortat isnt a scorer without wall nor is he a top defender to make up for it...

Curry and westbrook are ahead of wall...but if you put Chris Paul here this year, I don't see a difference in outcome...
We will get worst with Lillard only defensively, but it may still workout
Lowry is OK but he won't get us the looks we need for the rest of the team to flourish

Switch wall onto the clippers, they're just as deadly or more....Wall can get out and run with dj every play
Wall on the blazers is debatable, but he may turn aminu into full blown ariza
Wall on the Raptors is a real contender...

Top 5
Curry
Westbrook
3aPaul
3bwall
3clillard

No offense to Lowry or it....even though it can be iverson in the right environment

Completely agree- but after watching Curry go against Westbrook tonight. Westbrook is on a different tier than Wall but the Tier Curry is on has him trying to fight a spot on Mount Rushmore with Jordan, Magic, Bird and Wilt/Kareem. People saying Lebron pushed Bird off. Currys performance this year has to make him consider that he could be an all time great...like top 5 all time

[CobraCommander]

The problem with Wall is that he didn't show up in shape in November. He may be playing like a top 3-4 point guard lately but now Wall has to play at a higher level given how badly he played to start the season.

His back has to hurt carrying this team... But he did start off bad

[nate33]

Completely agree- but after watching Curry go against Westbrook tonight. Westbrook is on a different tier than Wall but the Tier Curry is on has him trying to fight a spot on Mount Rushmore with Jordan, Magic, Bird and Wilt/Kareem. People saying Lebron pushed Bird off. Currys performance this year has to make him consider that he could be an all time great...like top 5 all time

Forget top 5. Curry is having the best season of basketball by anyone... ever. Obviously, he hasn't done this for an entire career, so maybe he doesn't make the Mount Rushmore just yet, but if he can do this for, say, 3 more years and then have another 3 and a somewhat lower level of excellence (but still All-Star caliber), he's a top 5 player of all time and maybe top 3.

[deneem4]

Completely agree- but after watching Curry go against Westbrook tonight. Westbrook is on a different tier than Wall but the Tier Curry is on has him trying to fight a spot on Mount Rushmore with Jordan, Magic, Bird and Wilt/Kareem. People saying Lebron pushed Bird off. Currys performance this year has to make him consider that he could be an all time great...like top 5 all time

Forget top 5. Curry is having the best season of basketball by anyone... ever. Obviously, he hasn't done this for an entire career, so maybe he doesn't make the Mount Rushmore just yet, but if he can do this for, say, 3 more years and then have another 3 and a somewhat lower level of excellence (but still All-Star caliber), he's a top 5 player of all time and maybe top 3.

Curry is a top 5 offensive player that will get him in the top 10 overall but he's not top 5 all time...but mannnn right now...he's incredible

[nate33]

Completely agree- but after watching Curry go against Westbrook tonight. Westbrook is on a different tier than Wall but the Tier Curry is on has him trying to fight a spot on Mount Rushmore with Jordan, Magic, Bird and Wilt/Kareem. People saying Lebron pushed Bird off. Currys performance this year has to make him consider that he could be an all time great...like top 5 all time

Forget top 5. Curry is having the best season of basketball by anyone... ever. Obviously, he hasn't done this for an entire career, so maybe he doesn't make the Mount Rushmore just yet, but if he can do this for, say, 3 more years and then have another 3 and a somewhat lower level of excellence (but still All-Star caliber), he's a top 5 player of all time and maybe top 3.

Curry is a top 5 offensive player that will get him in the top 10 overall but he's not top 5 all time...but mannnn right now...he's incredible

Name a player who was better offensively, and back it up with individual statistics and team performance. I'm talking about the modern era (post 1979 when the 3-point line was introduced). It's impossible to compare to guys in the 60's and 70's because the game was so different then.

[tontoz]

Would you trade Kyle for Wall straight up? Do you think Wiz would be better with Lowery?


W

Your trade scenario is irrelevant. Lowry is 29, Wall 25.

But yes i think the Wizards would be better this year with Lowry. Wall was garbage in November. He is still makes way too many turnovers and shoots too many pullup Js early in the clock without anyone else touching the ball. Wall takes 7 shots per game from 10-22 feet while shooting 35.7%.

http://bkref.com/tiny/9jckj


it is also annoying how many times he misses layups due to showboating. But again he is by far our best player. As long as Grunfail is here the only way Wall will be on a contender is to leave.

[gambitx777]

I think you also have to weed out the scoring PG's and the Pure PG's Wall is arguably one of the best pure PG's in the game.

[deneem4]

Forget top 5. Curry is having the best season of basketball by anyone... ever. Obviously, he hasn't done this for an entire career, so maybe he doesn't make the Mount Rushmore just yet, but if he can do this for, say, 3 more years and then have another 3 and a somewhat lower level of excellence (but still All-Star caliber), he's a top 5 player of all time and maybe top 3.

Curry is a top 5 offensive player that will get him in the top 10 overall but he's not top 5 all time...but mannnn right now...he's incredible

Name a player who was better offensively, and back it up with individual statistics and team performance. I'm talking about the modern era (post 1979 when the 3-point line was introduced). It's impossible to compare to guys in the 60's and 70's because the game was so different then.

Shaq...
This is no disrespect at all to curry...I think he's the greatest shooter ever...
But he's so good at this 1 skill...and have capable team mates he don't have to play the other side of the ball with 100% effort and it's nothing wrong with that...that's really smart coaching, using your chess board....but when compared with the truly greats they was monsters on both ends

[nate33]

Curry is a top 5 offensive player that will get him in the top 10 overall but he's not top 5 all time...but mannnn right now...he's incredible

Name a player who was better offensively, and back it up with individual statistics and team performance. I'm talking about the modern era (post 1979 when the 3-point line was introduced). It's impossible to compare to guys in the 60's and 70's because the game was so different then.

Shaq...
This is no disrespect at all to curry...I think he's the greatest shooter ever...
But he's so good at this 1 skill...and have capable team mates he don't have to play the other side of the ball with 100% effort and it's nothing wrong with that...that's really smart coaching, using your chess board....but when compared with the truly greats they was monsters on both ends

I asked who was better offensively because you implied that Curry was merely top 5 offensively, not the best. Here is how Shaq's best season compares to Curry:


Curry scores considerably more with a MUCH better ORtg. Plus, he is able to be the go to scorer in the clutch since he isn't a liability at the FT line. And finally, his "gravity" draws defenses into double-teams 30 feet from the rim, which makes life much easier on his teammates. His team is doing even better than Shaq's stacked Lakers team even though Curry lacks a top 15 all time great by his side like Shaq had with Kobe.

[deneem4]

Name a player who was better offensively, and back it up with individual statistics and team performance. I'm talking about the modern era (post 1979 when the 3-point line was introduced). It's impossible to compare to guys in the 60's and 70's because the game was so different then.

Shaq...
This is no disrespect at all to curry...I think he's the greatest shooter ever...
But he's so good at this 1 skill...and have capable team mates he don't have to play the other side of the ball with 100% effort and it's nothing wrong with that...that's really smart coaching, using your chess board....but when compared with the truly greats they was monsters on both ends

I asked who was better offensively because you implied that Curry was merely top 5 offensively, not the best. Here is how Shaq's best season compares to Curry:


Curry scores considerably more with a MUCH better ORtg. Plus, he is able to be the go to scorer in the clutch since he isn't a liability at the FT line. And finally, his "gravity" draws defenses into double-teams 30 feet from the rim, which makes life much easier on his teammates. His team is doing even better than Shaq's stacked Lakers team even though Curry lacks a top 15 all time great by his side like Shaq had with Kobe.

Shaq only problems was free throws like curry main problem is defense...which is a bigger problem?...
You're telling me you'll take curry over Shaq??
Even klay Thompson being a Kobe lite and draymond Being the 2nd best player...
Curry has had years to set the league on fire...but it didn't really progress until draymond stepped in the lineup...curry is an incredible talent but he's has the best team set around him ever....
U can't Put it in a scope because they're all pretty young
But these guys together are all future hof...yes klay yes draymond is as well....
This is the equivalent of the thunder not trading harden...and getting One of the most accomplished player coaches

[deneem4]

And I stated he was the best shooter ever...but thompson has literally been the 2nd best shooter for the last 2 seasons...and draymond has been the best defender, for the most part rebounder, and assister from the pf/c position...ever...maybe only magic can disagree

[dobrojim]

The problem with Wall is that he didn't show up in shape in November. He may be playing like a top 3-4 point guard lately but now Wall has to play at a higher level given how badly he played to start the season.

His back has to hurt carrying this team... But he did start off bad

Not for that long, he was EC PotM in DEC.

[CobraCommander]

I'm gonna call this a top 5 game ...against the sixers