Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Shaq, a minority owner of the Kings, says that the team might soon look to get rid of Cousins b/c he is so hard to manage and provides no leadership whatsoever. They aren't going to get the big offers in return that some people here think they'll get. If he's a problem for them, he'll be viewed as likely a problem by other GMs.

OTOH, we have a big problem we can give them. I'd be happy to trade Beal for Cousins and Gay (another guy they'd like to dump) as long as there's no R1 pick added. I might even add Oubre to the deal, as I'm starting to doubt his upside.

Unfortunately, this is not the kind of deal Ernie is likely to do. It would be no surprise at all to see him acquire Cousins -- it would take the focus off of his dismal failures, and Ted would love it for the marketing value. But Ernie would give Porter instead of Beal, and he'll add at least 1 R1 pick in the deal, maybe 2.

The more I think about it, the more likely this seems. I am sure some of you will love it. We'll be in the bottom 1/2 of the league for the duration.

edit: in fact, most likely he'd give Porter & Gortat plus our R1 pick next year. I'm really afraid he's going to do exactly this.

Make it so!

The top part in red ... not the part in YUGE (Donald Trump-sized) letters. That IS what EG would do.

[payitforward]

...But how does these incredible stats translate to wins for us???
They dont....

I can't figure out why people say things like this.

Wins are produced 100% by stats. Nothing else produces a win.

You can argue that something hidden behind a particular stat is responsible, or partly responsible, for the stat, in the way, for example, that an assist contributes to a made shot. There can be a hockey assist or a great pick or you name it.

But someone still has to take that shot and either make it or miss it. If he makes it that helps you win; if he misses it that makes it harder to win. And, if he misses it, the great pick didn't help, and there was no assist at all.

Getting chances to score (rebounds, steals, non-turnovers) and getting points off those chances determine everything. If one of the two teams in a game has a higher TS% than the other, and also has more chances to score (shots plus FTAs/2) than the other, that team has won the game. Period. Do that and it's mathematically impossible to lose.

Hence the combination of a player's rebounds, steals & turnovers tells you a lot. Especially rebounds (because there are way fewer steals or turnovers than rebounds the differences among players are correspondingly smaller) And a player's TS% does too. Those two are more important than anything else.

Last year, Gortat's TS% was 7th best among the 27 C's who played 25 minutes/game.
He was 10th best in total rebounds per 40 minutes on the floor
20th in steals -- his only poor stat
6th fewest turnovers

Those stats all translate directly to wins.

[deneem4]

And the league 7th best center isn't winning any games for us...
Not once can you say gortat is keeping us in the game neither offensively nor defensively....
Please pull a quote from the game thread if I'm wrong...

Gortat isn't a difference maker at all...

I don't really understand why were so keen on holding on to him...
Keep pulling all the stats you would like but he's one of the guys that should be traded...

Now what do you think we can get for the 7th best center in the league? Or do wizards fan only rank him as so?

[montestewart]

Last year, Gortat's TS% was 7th best among the 27 C's who played 25 minutes/game.

Now what do you think we can get for the 7th best center in the league?

D-4, PIF didn't say Gortat was the 7th best center in the league. He said he was the 7th best person in history. Big difference. I think a team would have to part with at least one hundred billion dollars if it wants Gortat. If you know anything different, show me some quotes from the Resurrected unified MUSIC thread to support your argument.

[payitforward]

Last year, Gortat's TS% was 7th best among the 27 C's who played 25 minutes/game.

Now what do you think we can get for the 7th best center in the league?

D-4, PIF didn't say Gortat was the 7th best center in the league. He said he was the 7th best person in history. Big difference. I think a team would have to part with at least one hundred billion dollars if it wants Gortat. If you know anything different, show me some quotes from the Resurrected unified MUSIC thread to support your argument.

I didn't say he was the 7th best person in all of history, I said he was the best person in all 7 histories. You're not going to get that guy for a measly $100b.

[krii]

Last year, Gortat's TS% was 7th best among the 27 C's who played 25 minutes/game.

Now what do you think we can get for the 7th best center in the league?

D-4, PIF didn't say Gortat was the 7th best center in the league. He said he was the 7th best person in history. Big difference. I think a team would have to part with at least one hundred billion dollars if it wants Gortat. If you know anything different, show me some quotes from the Resurrected unified MUSIC thread to support your argument.

I didn't say he was the 7th best person in all of history, I said he was the best person in all 7 histories. You're not going to get that guy for a measly $100b.

In the history of the universe there is only one Great A'Tuin carrying four giant elephants who carry the Discworld. Pratchett was wrong though, because Great A'Tuin is carried by Marcin Gortat.

That's a fact.
That's a thing you can't denied.

[payitforward]

D-4, PIF didn't say Gortat was the 7th best center in the league. He said he was the 7th best person in history. Big difference. I think a team would have to part with at least one hundred billion dollars if it wants Gortat. If you know anything different, show me some quotes from the Resurrected unified MUSIC thread to support your argument.

I didn't say he was the 7th best person in all of history, I said he was the best person in all 7 histories. You're not going to get that guy for a measly $100b.

In the history of the universe there is only one Great A'Tuin carrying four giant elephants who carry the Discworld. Pratchett was wrong though, because Great A'Tuin is carried by Marcin Gortat.

That's a fact.
That's a thing you can't denied.

Oh yes I can if I want to. I deny it. So there. But... wait a minute. I'm changing my mind. I can change my mind if I want to. When I do that I am part of the great circle of peeing I mean being that lifts Marcin Gortat from the below of being, which enables him to carry Great... as above.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Last year, Gortat's TS% was 7th best among the 27 C's who played 25 minutes/game.

Now what do you think we can get for the 7th best center in the league?

D-4, PIF didn't say Gortat was the 7th best center in the league. He said he was the 7th best person in history. Big difference. I think a team would have to part with at least one hundred billion dollars if it wants Gortat. If you know anything different, show me some quotes from the Resurrected unified MUSIC thread to support your argument.

Seventh right behind Chaplin at 6th ... in HISTORY.

Eighth? Surprisingly, John Denver. Yeah, I know. Rocky Mountain wasn't the only thing high.

[krii]

I didn't say he was the 7th best person in all of history, I said he was the best person in all 7 histories. You're not going to get that guy for a measly $100b.

In the history of the universe there is only one Great A'Tuin carrying four giant elephants who carry the Discworld. Pratchett was wrong though, because Great A'Tuin is carried by Marcin Gortat.

That's a fact.
That's a thing you can't denied.

Oh yes I can if I want to. I deny it. So there. But... wait a minute. I'm changing my mind. I can change my mind if I want to. When I do that I am part of the great circle of peeing I mean being that lifts Marcin Gortat from the below of being, which enables him to carry Great... as above.

So THAT'S this legendary 'circle of life' they've been singing in the 'Lion King' for years!

[payitforward]

Do you think we can trade the turtle for a R2 pick?

[DANNYLANDOVER]

Oh, absolutely. I mean he's grabbing 15 boards every 40 minutes and has .60 TS% -- who needs that, right?

He's our most tradeable asset...
And he publicly down talks the team...ship him out...
We're not winning games with his consistent great play, he dont step up when our guys aren't playing well...
Why? Because he cant...
I'll rather have a big with a specialized skillset...
Either a goto post scorer
Elite rim protecter
OR good shooting...

Gortat is completely mediocre...he's Jason Smith at his best and that's not saying much...
Not to mention he's soft as fur...

Are you serious? Are you comparing this http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithja02.html to this http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gortama01.html?

I understand that people could be upset with Gortat's 'softness' and his 'inability' to dominate games but seriously, comparing him to Jason Smith? Dude is better than Smith in every single aspect of his game throughout this season and their entire careers. Heck, Smith was playable in Orlando but Gortat in his Orlando days was one of the best bench bigs in the league.

There's a reason why that denim guy is on my ignore list!

[krii]

Do you think we can trade the turtle for a R2 pick?

Well that would be quite unexpected move by EG.

I'd say that he is able to move JWall for a turtle and a R2 pick. Just EG stuff.

[Ruzious]

Shaq, a minority owner of the Kings, says that the team might soon look to get rid of Cousins b/c he is so hard to manage and provides no leadership whatsoever. They aren't going to get the big offers in return that some people here think they'll get. If he's a problem for them, he'll be viewed as likely a problem by other GMs.

OTOH, we have a big problem we can give them. I'd be happy to trade Beal for Cousins and Gay (another guy they'd like to dump) as long as there's no R1 pick added. I might even add Oubre to the deal, as I'm starting to doubt his upside.

Unfortunately, this is not the kind of deal Ernie is likely to do. It would be no surprise at all to see him acquire Cousins -- it would take the focus off of his dismal failures, and Ted would love it for the marketing value. But Ernie would give Porter instead of Beal, and he'll add at least 1 R1 pick in the deal, maybe 2.

The more I think about it, the more likely this seems. I am sure some of you will love it. We'll be in the bottom 1/2 of the league for the duration.

edit: in fact, most likely he'd give Porter & Gortat plus our R1 pick next year. I'm really afraid he's going to do exactly this.

Make it so!

The top part in red ... not the part in YUGE (Donald Trump-sized) letters. That IS what EG would do.

I'd tweak the trade to be Beal, Gortat, and Oubre for Cousins and Afflalo. They have no need for Afflalo and have him on their books for another year after this - he has a very bad contract. We're helping them by taking him. They can probably still get something for Gay. I would not include a 2017 or 2018 pick. Cousins trade value is at its lowest to date and could drop lower.

Sac would then likely trade Gortat for a pick/youth - but that's up to them.

[Dark Faze]

I don't think anything is off the table. We're contractually locked into a team that might not even be 8 seed good in the east with no cap relief in sight, and if the standings hold up as they are, then you could end up winning two games at the end of the season and go from the 2nd worst team in the league to starting at the #10 overall pick. And we're not in a position to tank to improve our chances at a higher pick with a first year coach, a desperate GM, and a bunch of players with something to prove. Turning down a pick for Boogie and ending up with the #12 would be absolutely horrific. I think we'd have to be far and away, no doubt about it, a bottom 3 team in the NBA--I mean no hope of improving on that standing bad, which I think is unlikely--this team has a few games under .500 written all over it.

Ideally you could get top 3 protection on that kind of deal, but I doubt that'd be the best offer on the table for the Kings. You'd have to gamble a little.

If we include the pick, I'd like to include Brad and one if not both of Nicholson and Smith for salary relief. I'd like to keep Oubre as a prospect and I'd like to keep Gortat because he's got a great contract that we can move for another player.

[nate33]

A trade for Cousins is the type of hail mary that would either pay off big time, or turn out disastrous, which means it's exactly the type of trade we should consider since we are, at best, a treadmill team with no hope for contention in the foreseeable future. Obviously, the starting point for such a trade would be Beal + Gortat. I'd include either Oubre or a top 7 protected 1st.

The hope in acquiring Cousins is that he'd have a Zach Randolph type of career where he suddenly becomes a really good player once he reached the necessary level of maturity.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Shaq, a minority owner of the Kings, says that the team might soon look to get rid of Cousins b/c he is so hard to manage and provides no leadership whatsoever. They aren't going to get the big offers in return that some people here think they'll get. If he's a problem for them, he'll be viewed as likely a problem by other GMs.

OTOH, we have a big problem we can give them. I'd be happy to trade Beal for Cousins and Gay (another guy they'd like to dump) as long as there's no R1 pick added. I might even add Oubre to the deal, as I'm starting to doubt his upside.

Unfortunately, this is not the kind of deal Ernie is likely to do. It would be no surprise at all to see him acquire Cousins -- it would take the focus off of his dismal failures, and Ted would love it for the marketing value. But Ernie would give Porter instead of Beal, and he'll add at least 1 R1 pick in the deal, maybe 2.

The more I think about it, the more likely this seems. I am sure some of you will love it. We'll be in the bottom 1/2 of the league for the duration.

edit: in fact, most likely he'd give Porter & Gortat plus our R1 pick next year. I'm really afraid he's going to do exactly this.

Make it so!

The top part in red ... not the part in YUGE (Donald Trump-sized) letters. That IS what EG would do.

I'd tweak the trade to be Beal, Gortat, and Oubre for Cousins and Afflalo. They have no need for Afflalo and have him on their books for another year after this - he has a very bad contract. We're helping them by taking him. They can probably still get something for Gay. I would not include a 2017 or 2018 pick. Cousins trade value is at its lowest to date and could drop lower.

Sac would then likely trade Gortat for a pick/youth - but that's up to them.

I like your tweaked deal a lot, Ruz.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

A trade for Cousins is the type of hail mary that would either pay off big time, or turn out disastrous, which means it's exactly the type of trade we should consider since we are, at best, a treadmill team with no hope for contention in the foreseeable future. Obviously, the starting point for such a trade would be Beal + Gortat. I'd include either Oubre or a top 7 protected 1st.

The hope in acquiring Cousins is that he'd have a Zach Randolph type of career where he suddenly becomes a really good player once he reached the necessary level of maturity.

He's already better than peak Zach Randolph IMO.

[BigA]

A trade for Cousins is the type of hail mary that would either pay off big time, or turn out disastrous, which means it's exactly the type of trade we should consider since we are, at best, a treadmill team with no hope for contention in the foreseeable future. Obviously, the starting point for such a trade would be Beal + Gortat. I'd include either Oubre or a top 7 protected 1st.

The hope in acquiring Cousins is that he'd have a Zach Randolph type of career where he suddenly becomes a really good player once he reached the necessary level of maturity.

I believe that this is Step 11 in Ted's 10 Step Plan: "if you find yourselves a capped out, treadmill team with no trade assets and no realistic chance for contention in the next decade, throw a hail mary by trading all of your remaining assets for a talented, disgruntled star who will either be a savior or totally destroy your franchise."

[AFM]

Treadmill team? No, we're a "slipped in the treadmill and flew off the back" team.

We are on pace to win 18 games.

[montestewart]

Treadmill team? No, we're a "slipped in the treadmill and flew off the back" team.

We are on pace to win 18 games.

Too bad they're not an NFL team