Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVI

[DCZards]

DCZards, the very idea of someone comparing me to Donald Trump is enough for me to block their posts.

I won't miss a thing you have to say and I suggest you block mine because you just made an enemy today.

Wasn't talking about you at all but you did succeed in annoying the hell out of me. To me you're just like that Burt Gummer dude. Can't help yourself when it comes to f****** with people

Don't really care whether or not you block me, CCJ. I won't block you because I don't block anybody, regardless of what they say.

I've been very restrained in responding to your posts. I usually don't respond to them at all. But this time you played the race card in a way that I thought was inappropriate and wrong.

And then you turn around and have the nerve to accuse me of being the one that's being divisive.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

DCZards, the very idea of someone comparing me to Donald Trump is enough for me to block their posts.

I won't miss a thing you have to say and I suggest you block mine because you just made an enemy today.

Wasn't talking about you at all but you did succeed in annoying the hell out of me. To me you're just like that Burt Gummer dude. Can't help yourself when it comes to f****** with people

Don't really care whether or not you block me, CCJ. I won't block you because I don't block anybody, regardless of what they say.

I've been very restrained in responding to your posts. I usually don't respond to them at all. But this time you played the race card in a way that I thought was inappropriate and wrong.

And then you turn around and have the nerve to accuse me of being the one that's being divisive.

Playing the race card is a euphemism. What it means to you is not the same thing that it means to me.

I truly believe European players and any other non black player in the NBA is held to a different standard.

You don't think it's inappropriate or wrong to compare someone to Donald Trump. You say that to a man who spent much of his life in the military or a dependent child or spouse. I don't sit Courtside cuz I can't afford it. I know what it's like to be overseas by my-damn-self in another country. For over a year . And I know what it's like to be the spouse of a woman in Iraq for two different years. She was in the military. I know what it's like to raise kids alone on a pretty limited budget. When George Bush was saying that the Iraq war was over I was trying to work a full-time job and take care of two pre K kids and another with special needs -- that being a man with his own disability.

People who talk about America being great and never did a damn thing to truly sacrifice... nevermind

You tell me what's inappropriate.

I'll just say keep comparing people and making up s*** and feeling good about yourself.

Last but not least I support this President like I would support any other president. We have freedoms in this country and some people actually will fight to protect those freedoms. I'm nothing like the rich guys that don't do s*** but make sure other people do it for them.

When Donald Trump wasn't in the military people like John McCain and my dad were over in Vietnam.

Hi dad went to Vietnam twice when I was a kid.

So since I made a comparison that went over your head and you thought was inappropriate you got personal.

The pettiness comes with not defending John Wall and just getting personal.

[payitforward]

Here's what Otto Porter did in 2017-18: he grabbed 50% more rebounds than an average wing, he turned the ball over 60% as often as an average wing, he blocked 1/3 more shots than an average wing, & he got 45% more steals than an average wing. ...an average wing posts 48% on 2pt shots; Otto scored sank 2 point shots at a 53.7% clip. An average wing shoots 36% on 3 pt. attempts. Otto shot them at over 44%. An average wing shoots just over 79% on FTs. Otto shot just under 83%. And, of course, while doing all this stuff Otto also outscored an average wing by @ 11%.

You bringing up numbers thats not relevant. Otto mindset scoring wise is his bbiggest weakness and its a big weakness to have...
For a player to be that efficent and young and not scoring atleast 20 pts per game is a problem.
And its not on wall or brooks because they give otto the ball...

Il sum it up like this...is this the best otto will be?
Is his ceiling kyle korver or klay thompsom

But, man, those numbers you call "not relevant" make him a completely different player from Kyle Korver! As to Klay Thompson, see below.

Kyle Korver is a supremely great 3 pt. shooter who does virtually nothing else. (Not to be unfair, he gives effort on defense)

Korver can't be Otto's "ceiling," b/c Otto is a much much better player than Korver. Do you really think that the only thing defining a player is his scoring? Come on, man...

Plus, you've got these players in the reverse order of how good they are!...

Don’t hate me, but I think Otto is at least as good if not better than Klay.

Otto Porter is a ton better player than Klay Thompson! It's not even close. This is one of those classic cases where you are comparing an underrated player & an overrated player.

The two guys are about the same as shooters. In Thompson's favor is that he is a higher usage guy, so that he scored 4.85 more points per 40 minutes than Otto last season. OTOH, he's the 3d defensive target behind the best shooter in the history of the league & an MVP-level guy, so it's no surprise that he gets more open shots than Otto.

But that is where it ends with Klay Thompson; he does nothing else particularly well but shoot.

Otto gets 60% more defensive rebounds than Thompson -- & he gets 3.3 times as many offensive rebounds

Thompson turns the ball over 5 times for every 3 times Otto does.

For every steal Thompson gets Otto gets more than 2.

In effect, every 40 minutes Otto gives his team 10 extra possessions over Klay Thompson while delivering 4.85 fewer points. It's kind of obvious what that means.

[payitforward]

Don’t hate me, but I think Otto is at least as good if not better than Klay.

Contract aside would u trade otto for klay right now?

Not a chance, brother, no way.

[payitforward]

Kyle Korver is really good.

Because he shoot when passed the ball

No. He shoots less often than Otto.

What's good about him is that when he shoots (almost always a 3-pointer), the ball goes in! The guy scores at an eFG% of almost 63%, which is unheard of for a guard.

Korver shoots even better than Otto Porter -- hard to do. But, he doesn't do anything else nearly well enough to be anywhere near as good as Otto overall.

He was, however, significantly better overall than Klay Thompson last season (though that's on @1600 minutes vs. Klay's @2600 minutes).

[payitforward]

This post is full of a lot of BS, ccj. ...you sound an awful lot like the guy in the White House with your negativity toward the media.

Now, Zards. Lets not get carried away here!

[payitforward]

DCZards, the very idea of someone comparing me to Donald Trump is enough for me to block their posts.

I won't miss a thing you have to say and I suggest you block mine because you just made an enemy today.

Wasn't talking about you at all but you did succeed in annoying the hell out of me. To me you're just like that Burt Gummer dude. Can't help yourself when it comes to f****** with people

Hey! You two are among my favorite posters here.

You both get carried away, you both have your player favorites & blind spots. You're not perfect, like me Dat.

Joking aside, you each have a lot to contribute to discussion.... I hope you won't block each other, & if you have then why don't you unblock each other.

In fact, if you unblock each other I will promise not to list endless stats here for an entire week!

Is that enough? What else do I have to do? Do I have to stop correcting Nat too? Ok, fine.... (for a week -- after which you better watch out, Nat!! )

[payitforward]

Tomas Satoransky was not a deer in the headlights in the playoffs. Maybe you mean he had a bad game? Is that it?

This guy's been a pro for a decade or close to it. Which one of the Toronto Raptors scared him so much, do you think?

I attend 40-45 Wizard games a year. Sit about 15 rows from the floor. I can assure you that Sato was significantly more timid during the playoffs than he was during the regular season, it was obvious in his body language. It wasn't the Raptors or a particular Raptor player. I think it was the moment. Or maybe it was the fear of being pulled if he made a mistake. Whatever the reason, imo, Sato played scared during the playoffs.

I remember that last off season you were saying that you weren't comfortable w/ Satoransky as the backup; you strongly supported our trading an asset for 1 year of Frazier so we had a reliable veteran backup.

You're right. I wasn't sure that Sato was ready to step into the backup role. I'm glad he proved me wrong. The record will also show that I was one of the few posters here that has been high on Sato since his rookie season. I've consistently praised his defense and high bball IQ.

Fair enough, Zards -- I can't argue with someone who is stating the impression he had. & anyway... this whole "Wall vs. Satoransky" thing is an invented issue.

John Wall had a bad season; given that he had a terrific season the previous year, we know it was because he was injured this year.

Tomas Satoransky had a terrific season. Given John only logging 1400+ minutes, we'd have been in a bad way w/o Sato. We would not have been in the playoffs without him.

[payitforward]

I know... CCJ, Zards -- why don't you guys get mad at me instead of each other?

...let me see ...I have to think of something to get you mad.

I can't come up with anything right now, sorry. So, just get mad at me for no reason. You know... like Nat does?

(sorry, Nat -- I'm using you jokingly but for a good cause as I'm sure you recognize. Peace)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

DCZards, the very idea of someone comparing me to Donald Trump is enough for me to block their posts.

I won't miss a thing you have to say and I suggest you block mine because you just made an enemy today.

Wasn't talking about you at all but you did succeed in annoying the hell out of me. To me you're just like that Burt Gummer dude. Can't help yourself when it comes to f****** with people

Hey! You two are among my favorite posters here.

You both get carried away, you both have your player favorites & blind spots. You're not perfect, like me Dat.

Joking aside, you each have a lot to contribute to discussion.... I hope you won't block each other, & if you have then why don't you unblock each other.

In fact, if you unblock each other I will promise not to list endless stats here for an entire week!

Is that enough? What else do I have to do? Do I have to stop correcting Nat too? Ok, fine.... (for a week -- after which you better watch out, Nat!! )

I haven't blocked but about three people ever. Didn't block him. I'm not at my best so I'll give the other guy benefit of a doubt

A good way to grow is to choose not to be offended.

[deneem4]

We should get melo

[gesa2]

A good way to grow is to choose not to be offended.

Well said

[JWizmentality]

What a load of revisionist history bs on Wall. Sorry but the majority of the hate of Wall on this board goes way beyond his game flaws and contract. Fact: Gortat started this whole mess. Every team has their hang ups and dirty laundry, even GState. The difference is keeping it in house. Gortat decided to air everything out in the media with his passive aggressive nonsense.

You had people here calling out Wall because he wore sunglasses to a game and the camera just happened to catch him smiling after a loss? And you want to talk about media racism? GTFO.

Some of you want to act like your hate is subjective but moon light on other boards gas lighting Wall. I won't call any of you out but drop the holier than thou garbage and just say you don't like the dude, and stop with the narrative around a guy none of you know nothing about.

Wall is lazy
Wall doesn't want to win
Wall is a lockeroom cancer
....and yeah. We're better without Wall.

Fake News!

[Dat2U]

But the point stands - Wall playing pound the rock and not playing D sets the entire team back. When he came back he reverted to the same form and we got the same results. This all from a supermax...

Not sure I follow you b/c the circumstances at the beginning of the season and the end of the season were very different.

Wall clearly not right early in the season, tried to play through it and it hurt the team. He stood around too much, didn't try to get all the way to the rim and freelanced far too much on D. While he was hurt, the rest of the team outside of Morris was pretty healthy. That's why for a short time it looked liked we were better when he went out.

When Wall came back at the end of the year he was a completely different player and although the sample size is small, he played arguably as well as he's ever played. However the difference is by the end of the year, Otto was a shell of himself b/c of the injury and Beal played like he had worn down from all the attention he got in Wall's absense. Did you forget some of the horrible losses we had towards the end without Wall??? We were tied 2-2 in game five up in the 4th quarter against Toronto with Wall doing ALL the heavy lifting. Who else showed up in the playoffs? Outside Wall & maybe Mike Scott, did anyone else? I know it's easy to blame the super max guy that isn't even a supermax until next year but this analysis just doesnt cut it.

My point is that Wall has played the same way not just last season but year after year. At the very beginning of the season the entire team was healthy and not sharing the ball.

When he went out with injury and until Porter couldn't move and Beal wore down, we were sharing the ball - it was fun to watch and we were winning. Yes, the team was still healthy during that time.

SuperW came back to play the same way - the same way he has year after year. Again we weren't a very good team. Again, and maybe only what I saw he just doesn't make those around him that much better. During the playoffs - well, we got bounced. Kyle Lowry was arguably as effective as our supermax.

I know we should let Wall have a pass - he is the best player on the team and your favorite. But it seems like, just maybe, Gortat might be more right than wrong.

But then no more excuses - if we are back to a sub-50 win team and we have a supermax clogging up the next logical steps in the transition - then he needs to go as much as Grunfeld.

It seems like your choosing to rewrite history through your eyes because you fell in love with the 2-3 week run we had with Sato. --- i.e. small sample size theater. Of course it ignores the much larger sample size where we clearly struggled without Wall. You somehow pinpoint Wall's returning as coinciding with the team struggling and that clearly was not the case. The team was in complete free fall before Wall returned from injury. The play of style did not change when Wall came back - that level of play was unsustainable and the ball was sticking in the games prior to Wall's return.

As for Wall being my "favorite" --- it's actually Otto Porter lol. But I clearly recognize Wall as the best talent on the roster and have zero desire to watch a rebuild unlike some the folks here.

[DCZards]

It seems like your choosing to rewrite history through your eyes because you fell in love with the 2-3 week run we had with Sato. --- i.e. small sample size theater. Of course it ignores the much larger sample size where we clearly struggled without Wall. You somehow pinpoint Wall's returning as coinciding with the team struggling and that clearly was not the case. The team was in complete free fall before Wall returned from injury. The play of style did not change when Wall came back - that level of play was unsustainable and the ball was sticking in the games prior to Wall's return.

As for Wall being my "favorite" --- it's actually Otto Porter lol. But I clearly recognize Wall as the best talent on the roster and have zero desire to watch a rebuild unlike some the folks here.

Yeah, not sure what team dckings was watching. The Zards struggled mightily without Wall the last 6 weeks or so of the regular season...and probably would have been swept by Toronto in the playoffs if Wall had not returned.

[JWizmentality]

It seems like your choosing to rewrite history through your eyes because you fell in love with the 2-3 week run we had with Sato. --- i.e. small sample size theater. Of course it ignores the much larger sample size where we clearly struggled without Wall. You somehow pinpoint Wall's returning as coinciding with the team struggling and that clearly was not the case. The team was in complete free fall before Wall returned from injury. The play of style did not change when Wall came back - that level of play was unsustainable and the ball was sticking in the games prior to Wall's return.

As for Wall being my "favorite" --- it's actually Otto Porter lol. But I clearly recognize Wall as the best talent on the roster and have zero desire to watch a rebuild unlike some the folks here.

Yeah, not sure what team dckings was watching. The Zards struggled mightily without Wall the last 6 weeks or so of the regular season...and probably would have been swept by Toronto in the playoffs if Wall had not returned.

+1000

I love Sato as much as the next guy. He had an eye opening 2-3 weeks but then reverted back to mean. We were well into the free fall and back to the ball sticking game by the time Wall came back. And the whole reason we even won 2 games against the Raptors was because of Wall. Period! And here's another fact point that triggers the advanced stats and purists on this board. Ty Lawson outplayed Sato in the playoffs. So yeah, as much as Brooks' rotations suck, he didn't play well enough to warrant being played ahead of fresh off the boat Lawson. Does that mean I want to see Ty on this team next season? Hell no. But I'm not going to knock Brooks for not playing Sato when he clearly was not ready.

[dckingsfan]

Not sure I follow you b/c the circumstances at the beginning of the season and the end of the season were very different.

Wall clearly not right early in the season, tried to play through it and it hurt the team. He stood around too much, didn't try to get all the way to the rim and freelanced far too much on D. While he was hurt, the rest of the team outside of Morris was pretty healthy. That's why for a short time it looked liked we were better when he went out.

When Wall came back at the end of the year he was a completely different player and although the sample size is small, he played arguably as well as he's ever played. However the difference is by the end of the year, Otto was a shell of himself b/c of the injury and Beal played like he had worn down from all the attention he got in Wall's absense. Did you forget some of the horrible losses we had towards the end without Wall??? We were tied 2-2 in game five up in the 4th quarter against Toronto with Wall doing ALL the heavy lifting. Who else showed up in the playoffs? Outside Wall & maybe Mike Scott, did anyone else? I know it's easy to blame the super max guy that isn't even a supermax until next year but this analysis just doesnt cut it.

My point is that Wall has played the same way not just last season but year after year. At the very beginning of the season the entire team was healthy and not sharing the ball.

When he went out with injury and until Porter couldn't move and Beal wore down, we were sharing the ball - it was fun to watch and we were winning. Yes, the team was still healthy during that time.

SuperW came back to play the same way - the same way he has year after year. Again we weren't a very good team. Again, and maybe only what I saw he just doesn't make those around him that much better. During the playoffs - well, we got bounced. Kyle Lowry was arguably as effective as our supermax.

I know we should let Wall have a pass - he is the best player on the team and your favorite. But it seems like, just maybe, Gortat might be more right than wrong.

But then no more excuses - if we are back to a sub-50 win team and we have a supermax clogging up the next logical steps in the transition - then he needs to go as much as Grunfeld.

It seems like your choosing to rewrite history through your eyes because you fell in love with the 2-3 week run we had with Sato. --- i.e. small sample size theater. Of course it ignores the much larger sample size where we clearly struggled without Wall. You somehow pinpoint Wall's returning as coinciding with the team struggling and that clearly was not the case. The team was in complete free fall before Wall returned from injury. The play of style did not change when Wall came back - that level of play was unsustainable and the ball was sticking in the games prior to Wall's return.

As for Wall being my "favorite" --- it's actually Otto Porter lol. But I clearly recognize Wall as the best talent on the roster and have zero desire to watch a rebuild unlike some the folks here.

Actually...

#1 - I am looking at Wall's tenure and how many times we have broken the 50 win barrier against signing him as a supermax.

#2 - I am looking at how we played while Wall was gone (and while we were relatively healthy). And yes, you could say that is a small sample size. But there wasn't a discernable difference in records.

#3 - I watched Wall's return to see if he would change his game - and he didn't in the least.

So, I came to the conclusion that Wall wouldn't change, Brooks wouldn't change and the best way forward would be to move Wall before his contract was immovable and before his athleticism began leaving the building.

But the last point is reasonable and where we do have a solid disagreement. I would have traded Wall this off-season (if there was a chance) for picks and tried to draft a young PG. You want the Wall period to continue. I think there is no chance we move into the top 4 in the east over time with Wall's supermax.

I thought they would win 46 games this season, you thought 51. I can understand that from your lens, you think they have the talent to win more games. I don't. So, it is very reasonable that we are on the opposite sides on this issue.

I think were we agree is that Grunfeld is a disaster - so there is that

[dckingsfan]

It seems like your choosing to rewrite history through your eyes because you fell in love with the 2-3 week run we had with Sato. --- i.e. small sample size theater. Of course it ignores the much larger sample size where we clearly struggled without Wall. You somehow pinpoint Wall's returning as coinciding with the team struggling and that clearly was not the case. The team was in complete free fall before Wall returned from injury. The play of style did not change when Wall came back - that level of play was unsustainable and the ball was sticking in the games prior to Wall's return.

As for Wall being my "favorite" --- it's actually Otto Porter lol. But I clearly recognize Wall as the best talent on the roster and have zero desire to watch a rebuild unlike some the folks here.

Yeah, not sure what team dckings was watching. The Zards struggled mightily without Wall the last 6 weeks or so of the regular season...and probably would have been swept by Toronto in the playoffs if Wall had not returned.

I don't disagree - but what is the difference between 4-0, 4-1, 4-2 and 4-3? We were still bounced in the first round?

And my point is not about Wall in isolation - it is about Wall as a supermax. Are we playing to be in the top tier of the east over time or is the bottom tier just getting into the playoffs okay. I think that Wall and the supermax are cement shoes.

I clearly don't think that Wall & supermax is going to cut it, that's all - nothing more.

And again, from March 10th on we had Otto hurt, Oubre who couldn't hit a 3 pointer to save his life and Beal who had completely run out of gas and couldn't hit anything in the 4th quarter.

[dckingsfan]

What a load of revisionist history bs on Wall. Sorry but the majority of the hate of Wall on this board goes way beyond his game flaws and contract. Fact: Gortat started this whole mess. Every team has their hang ups and dirty laundry, even GState. The difference is keeping it in house. Gortat decided to air everything out in the media with his passive aggressive nonsense.

You had people here calling out Wall because he wore sunglasses to a game and the camera just happened to catch him smiling after a loss? And you want to talk about media racism? GTFO.

Some of you want to act like your hate is subjective but moon light on other boards gas lighting Wall. I won't call any of you out but drop the holier than thou garbage and just say you don't like the dude, and stop with the narrative around a guy none of you know nothing about.

Wall is lazy
Wall doesn't want to win
Wall is a lockeroom cancer
....and yeah. We're better without Wall.

Fake News!

I am going to respond to this only because I think it is pointed at me - correct me if I am wrong but...

I didn't call Wall out because he wore sunglasses. I didn't weigh in on the Gortat/Wall beef. I didn't call Wall out on being a bad person. I didn't call Wall out on being lazy. I didn't call Wall out about not wanting to win. I didn't call Wall out on being a cancer.

I DID say that we would be better off without Wall's supermax. I do feel we will be hamstrung by that contract and our current $107M in contracts for four players. I would be happy to discuss that elephant in the room.

[JWizmentality]

What a load of revisionist history bs on Wall. Sorry but the majority of the hate of Wall on this board goes way beyond his game flaws and contract. Fact: Gortat started this whole mess. Every team has their hang ups and dirty laundry, even GState. The difference is keeping it in house. Gortat decided to air everything out in the media with his passive aggressive nonsense.

You had people here calling out Wall because he wore sunglasses to a game and the camera just happened to catch him smiling after a loss? And you want to talk about media racism? GTFO.

Some of you want to act like your hate is subjective but moon light on other boards gas lighting Wall. I won't call any of you out but drop the holier than thou garbage and just say you don't like the dude, and stop with the narrative around a guy none of you know nothing about.

Wall is lazy
Wall doesn't want to win
Wall is a lockeroom cancer
....and yeah. We're better without Wall.

Fake News!

I am going to respond to this only because I think it is pointed at me - correct me if I am wrong but...

I didn't call Wall out because he wore sunglasses. I didn't weigh in on the Gortat/Wall beef. I didn't call Wall out on being a bad person. I didn't call Wall out on being lazy. I didn't call Wall out about not wanting to win. I didn't call Wall out on being a cancer.

I DID say that we would be better off without Wall's supermax. I do feel we will be hamstrung by that contract and our current $107M in contracts for four players. I would be happy to discuss that elephant in the room.

If you didn't say any of those things, why do you think I was talking about you? I didn't know your position until now lol.