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Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread.

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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#581 » by nate33 » Mon Aug 1, 2022 6:49 pm

DCZards wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
doclinkin wrote:I will say I do like the ways Tommy has improved the squad this year.
The team is starting to seem like a good fit for Wes' style.

In Morris, Wright, Barton we added outside shooting.
(In limited attempts even Taj Gibson hit nearly 40% of his 3's last year. 60% from the left corner).

We added passing in Morris, Wright. Likewise an overlooked aspect of Will Barton's game is passing. He regularly put up 6+ assists last year, averaging 4 a game, against 2 TO's. He's solid in the pick and roll. Yeah it helps that he was passing to Jokic but he has a 2:1 asst/TO ratio over his career.

Spacing and ball movement. Player movement. Find the open guy. Hit the open shots. Get open. Opening everything else up by inverting the court with face-up bigs who can handle a bit or hit from range, or both. When things are clicking I expect we can play a smart scheme that is fun to watch and that the players enjoy. The ball won't stick with any one guy but should pop around the court to find the smart shot.

I can't disagree that we improved offensively (even if it is marginally or maybe more that that depending on 2022 Beal). How about the other side of the ball?

Deni seems on track to becoming one of the best defenders in the game.

Wright and Davis are upgrades defensively. We’ll miss KCP’s D though.

KP’s shotblocking improves our interior D. Gibson will help on that end of the court to some extent.

Gibson and Davis aren't going to play enough minutes to matter.

The team defense is going to be highly dependent on Unseld playing Wright a lot of PG minutes, and Avdija a lot of minutes overall. They're the only truly plus defenders in the regular rotation. Beal, Morris, Kispert and Hachimura are bad defensively (though Hachimura at least has potential in theory). Barton, Porzingis, Kuzma and Gafford are okay but not great.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#582 » by doclinkin » Mon Aug 1, 2022 7:16 pm

nate33 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:I can't disagree that we improved offensively (even if it is marginally or maybe more that that depending on 2022 Beal). How about the other side of the ball?

Deni seems on track to becoming one of the best defenders in the game.

Wright and Davis are upgrades defensively. We’ll miss KCP’s D though.

KP’s shotblocking improves our interior D. Gibson will help on that end of the court to some extent.

Gibson and Davis aren't going to play enough minutes to matter.

The team defense is going to be highly dependent on Unseld playing Wright a lot of PG minutes, and Avdija a lot of minutes overall. They're the only truly plus defenders in the regular rotation. Beal, Morris, Kispert and Hachimura are bad defensively (though Hachimura at least has potential in theory). Barton, Porzingis, Kuzma and Gafford are okay but not great.


Beal has been a decent defender in years past, but in recent years spent all his energy at the other end. It's possible he picks back up at this end of the floor given that he no longer is gunning for stats for his contract. And with PG duties delegated elsewhere, and Porzingis taking a larger chunk of the offensive work. But yeah that also falls into the 'okay but not great' category.

Gibson exemplifies fundamentals on D. He won't play enough to matter and NBA teams get little practice time, but if he understands his role is as a tutor on D he may help Rui and Gafford learn to play positional defense better. Boxing out, etc.

But yeah Defense does not figure to be a strength for this team. I don't really care, I just want to look pretty in losses so Ted thinks we are trying to win and we still collect ping pong balls for the end of the season.

EDIT-- What Dat said.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#583 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Aug 2, 2022 12:37 am

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:A slightly different look at minutes, starting with guard.

Last year, @6200 minutes were played at guard by KCP (who played some at the 3), Dinwiddie, Neto, Holiday, Ish & Sato, all of whom are gone.

On the assumption that Brad plays a whole season, let's assume that only 5200 of those minutes need to be replaced. If Morris & Wright play about 4600 of those minutes, that would leave room for Johnny Davis to pick up 700-900 minutes as a rookie.

Does that make sense as a framework?

Kispert and/or Barton will probably play some guard minutes too.


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THAT SAID... BEAL INJURY ...

HMMM...Kispert and Barton at SG would be fun to watch
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#584 » by leswizards » Sun Aug 7, 2022 6:20 pm

Last season Kuzma was 2nd in minutes and mpg. To me, he was one of the worst Wizards to get regular minutes. Gafford was 5th in minutes, and 12th in mpg (which is deceptive due to trades and low games played by injury replacement players, so let’s say 9th). To me he was one of the Wizards best players the past 2 seasons. As long as the Wizards have a coach that designs a rotation this detached from relative productivity on the court, the Wizards are screwed.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#585 » by dckingsfan » Sun Aug 7, 2022 6:33 pm

leswizards wrote:Last season Kuzma was 2nd in minutes and mpg. To me, he was one of the worst Wizards to get regular minutes. Gafford was 5th in minutes, and 12th in mpg (which is deceptive due to trades and low games played by injury replacement players, so let’s say 9th). To me he was one of the Wizards best players the past 2 seasons. As long as the Wizards have a coach that designs a rotation this detached from relative productivity on the court, the Wizards are screwed.

I agree and disagree. Kuzma's minutes seemed disproportionate to his production.

Gafford really struggled to stay on the court with foul trouble, conditioning and then lost minutes to the unicorn. I think this is more than a bit on Gafford to improve and earn his minutes.

That said, I would like to see a few minutes going to a Gafford/Porzingis rotation.

I have a bias against Wes that says he likes small ball and that won't happen. So, I agree. But I think the Wizards are screwed on so many levels that it is mind-numbing.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#586 » by doclinkin » Sun Aug 7, 2022 7:59 pm

leswizards wrote:Last season Kuzma was 2nd in minutes and mpg. To me, he was one of the worst Wizards to get regular minutes.
...
As long as the Wizards have a coach that designs a rotation this detached from relative productivity on the court, the Wizards are screwed.


Last year was its own case. Look back through the roster and ask who you had out there that could create their own offense.

Beal was missing his shots, not forcing fouls, did not adjust to the defensive rules, had COVID 3 times, lost his Grandma, then was injured.
Dinwiddie was sulking.
Deni refuses to shoot. Intelligently since his %'s are low.
Rui was out for half the season then as usual behind on the action.
KCP is a pass-dependent player. Likewise Kispert. Not even going to mention Davis Bertans.
Gafford needs a true PG to spoon feed him the ball in scoring position, even aside from the fouling issue.
Ish?
Neto?

Only Trez and Porzingis could efficiently manufacture points. Trez gave those points back at the other end.

Somebody had to shoot. Kuzma has a bit of a face-up game, hit clutch shots late even if he missed those same shots early in games, never looked lost on defense even if he is only okay at best, and rebounded better than any other player on the court. This year he added passing to his game and racked his first career triple doubles. Who else was the coach going to play? Show me the winning line-up out of last year's talent.

IF, if, if, Beal and Porzingis are both healthy and playing well, then Kuzma becomes a complementary player. He still passes, still rebounds, but no longer leads the team in FG attempts. (Kuz had 100 more shots last year than any other player on the team). Scouts no longer game plan with Kuz as the focal point. He has more time and space to hit those open shots. Okay maybe he loses focus if he is not the star, maybe that is the key to his clutch shooting, that he has to have high stakes before he can focus and hit the shot. Or maybe his efficiency improves when he has spacing and shooters around him.

We added a true PG and 3 outside shooters this year. Porzingis or Beal MAY regain their outside touch, especially now that Beal can play off the ball instead of as the primary initiator. Our offense with Porzingis in the high post was pretty efficient. Kuz to me is not the keystone of the problem, except that our real problem is that we are less talented than our opponents. Their top guys beat our top guys at every position. Except Center when Kristaps is playing like he did last year with us. And healthy. And prior years' versions of Beal, sometimes. But there's almost never that you come out saying "Beal took that game over and won it by himself". So, yeah, you're right in suggesting that the coaching is what is key, if we can play better as a team than other teams play with better talent, then we have a chance. I don't think small ball is the problem though, considering we played a line that was Sato, Corey, Deni, Kuz, Porzingis. And Wes was the first coach we had in a long time that showed us any minutes with 2 bigs (Gaff and Porzingis on court at the same time). Chemistry. Chemistry is key. Curious to see how it turns out.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#587 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Sun Aug 7, 2022 8:34 pm

doclinkin wrote:
leswizards wrote:Last season Kuzma was 2nd in minutes and mpg. To me, he was one of the worst Wizards to get regular minutes.
...
As long as the Wizards have a coach that designs a rotation this detached from relative productivity on the court, the Wizards are screwed.


Last year was its own case. Look back through the roster and ask who you had out there that could create their own offense.

Beal was missing his shots, not forcing fouls, did not adjust to the defensive rules, had COVID 3 times, lost his Grandma, then was injured.
Dinwiddie was sulking.
Deni refuses to shoot. Intelligently since his %'s are low.
Rui was out for half the season then as usual behind on the action.
KCP is a pass-dependent player. Likewise Kispert. Not even going to mention Davis Bertans.
Gafford needs a true PG to spoon feed him the ball in scoring position, even aside from the fouling issue.
Ish?
Neto?

Only Trez and Porzingis could efficiently manufacture points. Trez gave those points back at the other end.

Somebody had to shoot. Kuzma has a bit of a face-up game, hit clutch shots late even if he missed those same shots early in games, never looked lost on defense even if he is only okay at best, and rebounded better than any other player on the court. This year he added passing to his game and racked his first career triple doubles. Who else was the coach going to play? Show me the winning line-up out of last year's talent.

IF, if, if, Beal and Porzingis are both healthy and playing well, then Kuzma becomes a complementary player. He still passes, still rebounds, but no longer leads the team in FG attempts. (Kuz had 100 more shots last year than any other player on the team). Scouts no longer game plan with Kuz as the focal point. He has more time and space to hit those open shots. Okay maybe he loses focus if he is not the star, maybe that is the key to his clutch shooting, that he has to have high stakes before he can focus and hit the shot. Or maybe his efficiency improves when he has spacing and shooters around him.

We added a true PG and 3 outside shooters this year. Porzingis or Beal MAY regain their outside touch, especially now that Beal can play off the ball instead of as the primary initiator. Our offense with Porzingis in the high post was pretty efficient. Kuz to me is not the keystone of the problem, except that our real problem is that we are less talented than our opponents. Their top guys beat our top guys at every position. Except Center when Kristaps is playing like he did last year with us. And healthy. And prior years' versions of Beal, sometimes. But there's almost never that you come out saying "Beal took that game over and won it by himself". So, yeah, you're right in suggesting that the coaching is what is key, if we can play better as a team than other teams play with better talent, then we have a chance. I don't think small ball is the problem though, considering we played a line that was Sato, Corey, Deni, Kuz, Porzingis. And Wes was the first coach we had in a long time that showed us any minutes with 2 bigs (Gaff and Porzingis on court at the same time). Chemistry. Chemistry is key. Curious to see how it turns out.

I too am extremely curious to see how it turns out. I'm about five notches on the dial more optimistic than anyone else. So I'm probably pretty misguided... but on the other hand I haven't been ground down by decades of disappointment. ;)

IF, if, if, Beal and Porzingis are both healthy and playing well, the Wizards will have a really, really good team
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#588 » by DCZards » Mon Aug 8, 2022 2:33 am

doclinkin wrote:Last year was its own case. Look back through the roster and ask who you had out there that could create their own offense.

Beal was missing his shots, not forcing fouls, did not adjust to the defensive rules, had COVID 3 times, lost his Grandma, then was injured.
Dinwiddie was sulking.
Deni refuses to shoot. Intelligently since his %'s are low.
Rui was out for half the season then as usual behind on the action.
KCP is a pass-dependent player. Likewise Kispert. Not even going to mention Davis Bertans.
Gafford needs a true PG to spoon feed him the ball in scoring position, even aside from the fouling issue.
Ish?
Neto?

Only Trez and Porzingis could efficiently manufacture points. Trez gave those points back at the other end.

Somebody had to shoot. Kuzma has a bit of a face-up game, hit clutch shots late even if he missed those same shots early in games, never looked lost on defense even if he is only okay at best, and rebounded better than any other player on the court. This year he added passing to his game and racked his first career triple doubles. Who else was the coach going to play? Show me the winning line-up out of last year's talent.

IF, if, if, Beal and Porzingis are both healthy and playing well, then Kuzma becomes a complementary player. He still passes, still rebounds, but no longer leads the team in FG attempts. (Kuz had 100 more shots last year than any other player on the team). Scouts no longer game plan with Kuz as the focal point. He has more time and space to hit those open shots. Okay maybe he loses focus if he is not the star, maybe that is the key to his clutch shooting, that he has to have high stakes before he can focus and hit the shot. Or maybe his efficiency improves when he has spacing and shooters around him.

I don’t get why some here refuse to give Kuz at least some props for how he played last season. Yes, you get the good, the bad and the ugly with Kuz...and there was a decent amount of good, especially his rebounding, clutch shooting, his improving ability to take opponents off the dribble, and his oncourt leadership.

Unfortunately, Kuz was forced into the role of lead dog on the offensive end many nights and that shined a bright spotlight on his shortcomings. No doubt about that.

Yet, there were nights when Kuz was the only reason the Zards were fun to watch. I remember in particular the New Year's Day home game against Chicago. Kuz hit a a couple of clutch threes in the last minute or so of the game, including a long 3 with a few seconds left in the game to put the Zards up by 2. The Cap One Arena was on fire.

Unfortunately, that was the game where DeRozan hit a 3 from the corner as the clock ran out to give the Bulls the win.

Put Kuz in the role of a complementary player and he’ll do just fine.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#589 » by payitforward » Mon Aug 8, 2022 2:46 pm

Kuzma's scoring numbers over his now 5-year career are, overall, pretty consistent. His 3-pt % has never been even average, & both his FT% & 2pt. % are meh. His efficiency as a scorer (i.e. TS%) has been consistently sub-par year on year.

At the same time, Kuzma has always been a pretty high-volume shooter. His usage with us last year was 24% -- not much different from his first 3 years in LA, when it averaged 23%.

I don't see his usage going down this year. KP is a high-usage player, but neither of our 2 main off-season additions (Morris & Wright) shoots much.

Kuz is also consistently sub-par overall on the 3 numbers that directly affect possessions: offensive rebounds, steals & turnovers.

Where he is very solid, on the other hand, is defensive rebounding. He also gets an above average number of assists, & he doesn't foul a lot either.

Kuz has already logged 10,400 NBA minutes. You never know, but players whose games change a lot after that many minutes are few & far between.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#590 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:45 am

payitforward wrote:Kuzma's scoring numbers over his now 5-year career are, overall, pretty consistent. His 3-pt % has never been even average, & both his FT% & 2pt. % are meh. His efficiency as a scorer (i.e. TS%) has been consistently sub-par year on year.

At the same time, Kuzma has always been a pretty high-volume shooter. His usage with us last year was 24% -- not much different from his first 3 years in LA, when it averaged 23%.

I don't see his usage going down this year. KP is a high-usage player, but neither of our 2 main off-season additions (Morris & Wright) shoots much.

Kuz is also consistently sub-par overall on the 3 numbers that directly affect possessions: offensive rebounds, steals & turnovers.

Where he is very solid, on the other hand, is defensive rebounding. He also gets an above average number of assists, & he doesn't foul a lot either.

Kuz has already logged 10,400 NBA minutes. You never know, but players whose games change a lot after that many minutes are few & far between.


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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#591 » by doclinkin » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:07 am

Aww. Good long life: Pete Carril yoda of the Princeton offense passed away at age 92.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/15/sports/basketball/pete-carril-dead.html

I put it in this thread since Wes helped install some of the principles of the offense when he was an assistant for the Hibachi/Eddie Jordan offense. The concepts Carril developed were to take advantage of the advantage Princeton had over other teams, not size, not the greatest athletes, but smarts and moxie. Off ball motion, space beneath the basket, high post passing Big who could shoot from up top. Carril's principles truly saw their culmination in the Stef Curry Warriors, but the Arenas small ball game was the team that showed the league that offensive firepower could carry a team even if you slacked at the opposite end. Outside shooting and interior attacking ballhandling guards. Though we never found a high post center no matter how many draft picks we burned. (Had a chance though in Jordan's last year. But we drafted Dom McGuire instead of Marc Gasol.)

Thing is, the offense was developed in large part from the Bill Russell Celtics. Reading up on the Princeton offense in the Eddie Jordan era had me discover Carril, and through him thoroughly researching the Russell dynasty. It was the constant motion of Bob Cousy et al that woke up Carril to the possibilities of a team outsmarting better players with a keepaway style that switched the ball all around the court to find the holes in the defense. In NCAA play this resulted in a slowdown offense, but in the NBA with the short clock the principles still worked. Until finally with the right team, the right shooters, we saw a similar effect to the Cets where the most dominant player of his era (LeBron or Wilt) could be run off the court by a team that could execute with a high post Big, and a hurry up version of the motion offense that kept defenders scrambling at all points. That success meant the entire league (or any team without LeBron) stole the concepts to the point where the traditional Bigs were starved of minutes. Now every player on the court better shoot, pass, move without the ball, and defend with smart positioning and quick feet.

Now we see arguably the most dominant offensive player in the league (or most efficient anyway) is running many of these principles in a 7 footer version of small ball. And we have the coach that helped him develop in that role. Plus a 7'3" guy who is primed to play the same way (and I for one believe Kuzma can develop into a back up in that small ball 5 role; Deni if he gets a jumpshot likewise, since his passing reads and defense suggest Draymond, if you squint, and drink a few shots, smoke some HOPEium).

Just saying, small ball, played tall, may be a way we end up with a team that wins more than people expect. No dynasty, but beginning to install a system that can be taught to incoming players and sometimes slay giants, a few nights a year, or maybe eventually a series or two in the playoffs. Smart Ball can sometimes beat Power. The old yoda Carril showed us one way that can be done. RIP Coach.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#592 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:48 am

Silliness...somber now
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#593 » by JAR69 » Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:05 pm

Been wondering how (if at all) Wes and Beal will adjust to last year's change in foul-calling. We didn't really seem to adjust to it last year, or to do so well. Maybe there isn't much to be done - players like Beal who thrived on FT attempts from lighter dribble/drive contact may just be less valuable. But one thing Beal has (or had) is a wide range of offensive skills. I'm hoping Wes has a plan to get the most out of those skills in this changed environment. I'm not enough of a X and O person to know what that could be. But doc's recent long post in the Porz thread made me wonder if some of those concepts could be useful to the reffing adjustment.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#594 » by Dat2U » Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:15 am

leswizards wrote:Last season Kuzma was 2nd in minutes and mpg. To me, he was one of the worst Wizards to get regular minutes. Gafford was 5th in minutes, and 12th in mpg (which is deceptive due to trades and low games played by injury replacement , so let’s say 9th). To me he was one of the Wizards best players the past 2 seasons. As long as the Wizards have a coach that designs a rotation this detached from relative productivity on the court, the Wizards are screwed.


How do you get Gafford more minutes when:

*He's strictly a C and has a 7-3 KP ahead of him in the pecking order.

*He hasn't proven capable of consistently playing more than 20 or so minutes a night.

Kuzma played alot of minutes becauss Rui missed a chunk of the year and stunk defensively when he did play.

PF is a major problem on the roster... probably bigger than PG at this stage. Deni is probably the best option there currently but he's needed to defend on tje wing. The real resolution to this problem is still probably not on the roster and a team that's truly serious about winning would have put a bigger priority on addressing the position this past summer.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#595 » by payitforward » Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:43 am

We are eating the dinner we planned & prepared.

If you f-ck up the 2019 draft completely, mismanage the 2020 draft substantially, get less than you should out of the 2021 draft, & draft in 2022 as if you'd gotten your first look at the list of prospects about 1 hour before it was time to make your move, why then... it's no surprise that your team hasn't gotten better in 5 years, is it?

As to trades, because of the contracts he inherited, Tommy used trades primarily to undo old errors rather than bring in new talent in his first 3 years. This year he traded for Monte Morris & signed Delon Wright. Good.

As to KP, while he is obviously extremely talented, he hasn't had a good NBA career. In the last 5 seasons, he's played in 199 games. One year he missed entirely, the other 4 he's played under 50 games/season. Projecting his positive effect on the Wizards w/o looking at that problem seems foolish.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#596 » by doclinkin » Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:07 pm

payitforward wrote:As to KP, while he is obviously extremely talented, he hasn't had a good NBA career. In the last 5 seasons, he's played in 199 games. One year he missed entirely, the other 4 he's played under 50 games/season. Projecting his positive effect on the Wizards w/o looking at that problem seems foolish.


Fair point and also off-topic. You can't write a line-up analysis of the guy who is not in the line-up. This is not a season predictions thread. This is a thread about trying to maximize the talent you do have when they are available to play. There is probably a different thread for being a cranky alter kaker. :clown: This thread is for contributing something other than naysaying. Strategy in game play, not fussing about philosophy of long term roster construction. Tactics and personnel: What looks like it might work to you?
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#597 » by doclinkin » Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:12 pm

From the Porzingis thread, but yeah it probably belongs here instead.:

doclinkin wrote: I think the key for a possible Beal renaissance will be in the effectiveness of the shooters around him, and ball/player movement for the ball to find the hot hand.

I think there is a better chance for Porzingis to rediscover his outside shot than for Beal to do so. But if he does then the team has an unstoppable weapon. If any of one or two other players on court can also hit from distance, we can turn the court inside out, where outside shooters warp the floor in their direction, and players like Beal, Kispert, Kuzma score on the inside off cuts to the basket when defenders are out of postion, or when Beal springs free on constant off ball motion.

In this scheme the ball pops around while Beal runs patterns through screens, and the defense chases him. Bigs leave the inside to faceguard Porzingis above the key, he drops it to Deni/Monte who zips it to the open shooter, or fakes the pass then drops it to the cutter: Kispert attacking Baseline, or Kuzma with a speed mismatch on a big who has followed him outside. OR Beal coming off a curl.

Beal is a smart player. Aside from Porzingis' rare talent, this is the sole area where I see we have an advantage over many teams: High IQ. IF this team can develop chemistry, and Wes can gameplan a scheme that uses them well, we might be able to outfox and frustrate some teams. Beal is not quick-twitch speedy with his first step, he's not shifty with elite ball handling to fake out defenders. But when Beal catches the ball while he is already at momentum, he can carve into the interior where he has a number of wriggles that get him finishing shots. Once in there he knows how to drive into attackers and force fouls. That is where Beal has shown himself elite in the league, hitting quirky shots on the inside, racking fouls on defenders out of position. Refs still call contact on the inside, they are not calling contact off the dribble. If Beal develops chemistry with the ballmovers may we may see an uptick in his free throw shooting again. (This is an area where I would love to see him mentor Johnny Davis. Both are tough interior shotmakers unafraid to mix it up inside. If they get a little bit of space they can be a danger).

So. Call it Smarts and Darts: Kispert, Morris, Wright, Deni, Porzingis, Gill, Taj, Kuzma all read the floor well. Rui, Kispert, Morris, Barton, Wright all hit outside shots with good efficiency. Porzingis has in the past. Kuzma has in the clutch. If the ball ricochets to the open man til it finds the hot shooter, and teams overplay that guy, we can gash them by stabbing to the low post and frustrate them the way Princeton always did to beat the big boys in the tourney every year. Throw darts from outsdie, dart into the middle when overlooked.

It's a baby version of what Golden State has done: ball motion, player motion, shooters all around, find the open guy, or let Steph bail you out by defying reality. Only ours has the wrinkle that this version of small ball starts with a 7'3" guy whose shot is unguardable when on. Instead of shooting from 40 feet away, he is shooting from 10 feet up with the ball high over head on a jumper. It can only be phased by chasing your bigs out to mark him. We can play Tallsmallball. Play keepaway. Beal can play Chase-me, and do the thing that is an underrated part of Steph's game: attacking the interior with off ball motion. Let others do the outside shooting part, unless he rediscovers his longball, or if he can get sprung open with motion off screens.

Where this falls apart is we have no back-up for what Porzingis does, unless Kuzma is on one of his occasional hot streaks. When we go to the bench we need 3-4 shooters out there surrounding Gafford, so he can crush a lob dunk when teams overplay the ball and the passers find him. Its not bad, just not unstoppable.

Still, that to me is our X-factor. I agree we need a savvy veteran who can stabilize things and make it run. And here is where Tommy comes into play, I think we find that guy not in the NBA, but out of Europe. We are looking at a Euroball sort of player, and with the league allowing more clutching and grabbing, I think savvy Euro players are no longer at quite the disadvantage in trying to chase the elite athletes of the NBA. I think if we can land a battle tested winner from FIBA championships, we might see the system click into play better. Maybe we can sweet talk Marc Gasol to come back to us from Spain as a player-coach.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#598 » by doclinkin » Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:49 pm

JAR69 wrote:Been wondering how (if at all) Wes and Beal will adjust to last year's change in foul-calling. We didn't really seem to adjust to it last year, or to do so well. Maybe there isn't much to be done - players like Beal who thrived on FT attempts from lighter dribble/drive contact may just be less valuable. But one thing Beal has (or had) is a wide range of offensive skills. I'm hoping Wes has a plan to get the most out of those skills in this changed environment. I'm not enough of a X and O person to know what that could be. But doc's recent long post in the Porz thread made me wonder if some of those concepts could be useful to the reffing adjustment.



I think it is an excellent question. To me there are a few offensive implications of the new foul emphasis.

High level ballhandlers are now at a premium. True playmakers. The guys who can get to their spot or get the ball to a shooter are a useful weapon again. You want guys who can get you open shots. Passing becomes more important than expecting to break your guy off the dribble, but the few who are elite at it will be even more rare.

I suspect tall passers will have an advantage since fouls are more easy to see when the ball is above traffic. If you can get a playmaking Big you are ahead of the game. Passes over the defense are harder to guard. I can see a metagame developing for a team that has two bigs who develop passing chemistry with each other. Post them in the midrange with a tall outside shooter, play monkey-in-the-middle over the defenders heads, and leave runways for the lob dunk threat. Run patterns and back-door attacks with your smaller quicker players.

Without a playmaking guard (or Big), Off ball motion to get free is more important than one-on-one dribble penetration. You want to take open shots instead of trying to force it at the foul line. All players on the team should make fast smart passes, don't let the ball stick, if a guy is struggling, move, give him a target to pass, then swing the ball an extra time. Hot potato. Move the ball so defenders have no time to get inside the dribbler's footwork.

There will be a lot of handfighting close to the body where refs can't see it and won't make the judgment call. Benefit of the doubt goes to the defender. Borderline dirty play is alright even. We are back to the days of: 'foul on every play, they can't call them all'. Add physical defenders to your bench/line-up.

Perimeter players who can finish through contact are again highly valuable. Small combo guards will not be as useful anymore as big athletic wings. Look back to the Jordan era (Vince, TMac, Pippen, etc). The refs often only award the And-1 if you actually make the basket. Otherwise the foul is commonly not called at all. A star player who can make difficult shots and highlight reel plays will still earn fouls. Refs know who pays their checks, if stars miss they were probably fouled, if a second tier player misses he simply needs to be better. And stop whining about it. Because you are taken out of the game at both ends then, and refs don't respect that. And are even less likely to give you the call the next trip.

Seven Seconds or Less is a viable strategy, you don't want the defense to get set, you want them to chase and reach. If you can afford to run an efficient uptempo offense, then yeah you can run on every play. Don't walk it up. Quick ball movement is better than clear-out one-on-one gamesmanship unless you have an obvious mismatch.

I suspect Big interior scorers will come back in some form. And teams that can get the ball inside to them. It helps if they can hit jumpshots as well, so there is still space for off-ball movement and lanes to get momentum for the lob-dunk. But with the 3pt shot harder to get off, and fewer foul shots from dribble-drive attacks, suddenly interior finishing is the most high efficient play again.

Tall shooters will be a more reliable weapon. If you can shoot over the defense, it doesn't matter that they are in your jumping space. Refs will still call the obvious foul on an outside shot, but tall shooters don't have to swing their arms and clear out or rip through in order to get space for a shot, they simply catch it high and go right up. Pick and Pop is as important as Pick and Roll. If you can do both effectively you can keep teams guessing.

So. I think we are looking at:

Bigger, more athletic, stronger. True point guards deliver the ball to interior finishers. Throwback NBA but add Bigs who shoot, and pass.

--countered by--

Motion, passing, smarts. Chemistry. Lesser talented teams stay busy and look for your opportunity to make that high percentage play. Read and react offense. Screening. Pick and Pop/Pick and roll mix. Euroleague/FIBA play.

With dirty defenders advancing in the playoffs.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#599 » by payitforward » Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:47 pm

doclinkin wrote:
payitforward wrote:As to KP, while he is obviously extremely talented, he hasn't had a good NBA career. In the last 5 seasons, he's played in 199 games. One year he missed entirely, the other 4 he's played under 50 games/season. Projecting his positive effect on the Wizards w/o looking at that problem seems foolish.

Fair point and also off-topic. You can't write a line-up analysis of the guy who is not in the line-up. This is not a season predictions thread. This is a thread about trying to maximize the talent you do have when they are available to play. There is probably a different thread for being a cranky alter kaker. :clown: This thread is for contributing something other than naysaying. Strategy in game play, not fussing about philosophy of long term roster construction. Tactics and personnel: What looks like it might work to you?

I have an excuse!

My wife & I are in a little old French town called Sarlat la caneda. We both have Covid & are sitting in a hotel room waiting out our recovery. I got it first & am starting to feel just a bit better.

We came to the area to visit Lascaux & other prehistoric sites. We did get to two caves, Rouffignac & Cougnac; they were incredible. We also visited the Museum of Prehistory in the town of Les Eyzies, where we stayed.

Check this out: https://archaeology-travel.com/france/les-eyzies-the-world-capital-of-prehistory/

I've never seen anything remotely like it.

Might still make it to Lascaux if the recovery goes well. Meanwhile, Sarlat was the home of Montaigne, one of my favorite writers. Not that I'm seeing much other than this room!
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#600 » by montestewart » Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:00 am

Get well soon Mr. and Mrs. PIF

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