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LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche - La Going to LA

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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#61 » by DCZards » Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:48 pm

Krizko Zero wrote:
Bryant Gumble wrote:Finally tonight, a few words about championship rings. Just when did they become the all-important barometer of who does or doesn't count in sports? When did they supersede personal excellence or exemplary character as a standard of greatness?

I got to thinking about that the other night after the self-anointed chosen one, LeBron James, embarrassed himself as he tried to make his decision to seek rings in Miami sound like a search for the Holy Grail. It's when he essentially admitted to placing a higher priority on winning than anything else.

LeBron's decision is typical of our immediate gratification era, but it flies in the face of history. Even though he never won a title, Dan Marino is still the biggest hero in Florida. And in Boston, all those Celtics championships are dimmed by the unforgettable brilliance of Ted Williams, who never won anything. In Chicago, Gale Sayers and Dick Butkus have legendary status despite playing on losing teams. And even in the NBA, where guys seem obsessed with being viewed as "the man," real men like Barkley, Ewing and Baylor are ringless, but revered.

Despite such evidence to the contrary, LeBron James seems to think he needs a ring to change his life and secure his legacy. Maybe he'll get one, maybe he won't, but it's probable that no amount of rings will ever remove the stench he wallowed in last week. LeBron may yet find that in the court of public opinion, just as putting on a tux can’t make a guy a gentleman, winning a ring can’t make one truly a champion.


Gumbel makes some good points and he certainly knows how to wax poetic--or at least someone on his staff does. But I have to disagree with him. In Chicago (and I may be Gale Sayers' #1 fan), Sayers and Butkus are stars but Michael Jordan is the MAN. Why? Because he won 6 championships. In Boston, Ted Williams was one of the most gifted hitters of all time and the last man to hit .400, but there's no way his brillance outshines that of Bill Russell. Why? Because Russell led the Celts to multiple championships.

And, while Barkley, Ewing and Baylor are indeed revered (and should be) and are easily among the top players of all time, how often have you heard sportscasters and other players (like Kenny Smith), who have rings, chide (or dismiss) them, especially Barkley and Ewing, for not winning a championship.

I'm firmly on the side of those who believe that "rings" aren't that big of a deal. I think too many great players in all sports are unfairly belittled for not having won one. But, let's face it, in sports (and our society) winning is the standard and those who have a "ring" are usually placed on a higher pedestal than those who don't, rightfully or wrongfully.
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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#62 » by LyricalRico » Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:34 pm

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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#63 » by AceDegenerate » Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:53 pm

DCZards wrote:
Krizko Zero wrote:
Bryant Gumble wrote:Finally tonight, a few words about championship rings. Just when did they become the all-important barometer of who does or doesn't count in sports? When did they supersede personal excellence or exemplary character as a standard of greatness?

I got to thinking about that the other night after the self-anointed chosen one, LeBron James, embarrassed himself as he tried to make his decision to seek rings in Miami sound like a search for the Holy Grail. It's when he essentially admitted to placing a higher priority on winning than anything else.

LeBron's decision is typical of our immediate gratification era, but it flies in the face of history. Even though he never won a title, Dan Marino is still the biggest hero in Florida. And in Boston, all those Celtics championships are dimmed by the unforgettable brilliance of Ted Williams, who never won anything. In Chicago, Gale Sayers and Dick Butkus have legendary status despite playing on losing teams. And even in the NBA, where guys seem obsessed with being viewed as "the man," real men like Barkley, Ewing and Baylor are ringless, but revered.

Despite such evidence to the contrary, LeBron James seems to think he needs a ring to change his life and secure his legacy. Maybe he'll get one, maybe he won't, but it's probable that no amount of rings will ever remove the stench he wallowed in last week. LeBron may yet find that in the court of public opinion, just as putting on a tux can’t make a guy a gentleman, winning a ring can’t make one truly a champion.


Gumbel makes some good points and he certainly knows how to wax poetic--or at least someone on his staff does. But I have to disagree with him. In Chicago (and I may be Gale Sayers' #1 fan), Sayers and Butkus are stars but Michael Jordan is the MAN. Why? Because he won 6 championships. In Boston, Ted Williams was one of the most gifted hitters of all time and the last man to hit .400, but there's no way his brillance outshines that of Bill Russell. Why? Because Russell led the Celts to multiple championships.

And, while Barkley, Ewing and Baylor are indeed revered (and should be) and are easily among the top players of all time, how often have you heard sportscasters and other players (like Kenny Smith), who have rings, chide (or dismiss) them, especially Barkley and Ewing, for not winning a championship.

I'm firmly on the side of those who believe that "rings" aren't that big of a deal. I think too may great players in all sports are unfairly belittled for not having won one. But, let's face it, in sports (and our society) winning is the standard and those who have a "ring" are usually placed on a higher pedestal than those who don't, rightfully or wrongfully.


I agree that Winning Rings will cure all. By this time next year if the Heat Win the Chamionship, particularly so if they beat the Lakers, all the critics in the media who are hating LeBron right now will be right back on his nuts.
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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#64 » by jimij » Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:50 pm

I don't think it's fair to judge all team athlete's by weather or not they won rings. In baseball, no one player has that much of an impact over 162 games, plus with the uneven finances of the game, it's easy for someone to play their entire career with sub-par teammates so that there is no chance they ever win a world series.

In football the only position that really can completely influence a game IMO is quarterback and even then they are dependent on a lot of other guys. I do knock Marino a little bit for not having won and I certainly won't even consider a quarterback to be "great" unless he's at least led his team to one super bowl appearance (win or lose). For all other positions, I think you have to look at the win loss record and the stats.

However, in hoops, one or two guys can make all the difference in the world and I do think it's relevant to hold hoops superstars to a different standard and judging them by the number of rings is fair game.
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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#65 » by Benjammin » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:54 pm

This was posted on the general board: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... ency071610


A different discussion had played out within the NBA and USA Basketball: What should we do with LeBron?

From Team USA coach Mike Krzyzewski to managing director Jerry Colangelo to NBA elders, the issue of James’ immaturity and downright disrespectfulness had become a consuming topic on the march to the Olympics. The course of history could’ve changed dramatically, because there was a real risk that James wouldn’t be brought to Beijing based on fears his monumental talents weren’t worth the daily grind of dealing with him.

When the mandate had been to gather these immense egos and get the NBA’s greatest players to fit into a program, no one had a more difficult time meshing into the framework than James. Other players made it a point to learn the names of staffers and modestly go about their business without barking orders and brash demands.

No one could stand James as a 19-year-old in the 2004 Athens Olympics, nor the 2006 World Championships. Officials feared James could become the instigator of everything they wanted to rid themselves for the ’08 Olympics.

For as gifted as James was, Krzyzewski and Colangelo subscribed to a belief that with Kobe Bryant(notes) joining the national team in 2007, they could win a gold medal in ’08 with or without LeBron James. Behind the scenes, officials had taken to calling James’ inner circle, “The Enablers.” No one ever told him to grow up. No one ever challenged him. And yet, James was still a powerful pull for his teammates, and everyone had to agree they could no longer let his bossy and belittling act go unchecked. These weren’t the Cleveland Cavaliers, and Team USA wasn’t beholden to him.

After the NBA witnessed the behavior of James and his business manager Maverick Carter during the 2007 All-Star Weekend, the commissioner’s office sent word to USA Basketball the league wouldn’t force James on them for the Olympics. Before Team USA gathered for the 2007 Tournament of the Americas in Las Vegas, an unmistakable message had been delivered to James through Nike: Unless you change, we’re serious about leaving you home.

“Legacies were on the line,” one league official said, “and they weren’t going to let LeBron [expletive] it up for everyone in China.”


You just can't make this stuff up and I hope more stuff comes out as time goes on.
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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#66 » by verbal8 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:33 am

I wonder if there is going to book or movie about the free agency situation this year. Bits and pieces are coming out that are interesting. It would be very interesting to see who puts the pieces together first.
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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#67 » by jimij » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:28 am

Benjammin wrote:This was posted on the general board: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... ency071610


A different discussion had played out within the NBA and USA Basketball: What should we do with LeBron?



Great article. My favorite quote: For everything the Bulls tried to sell – from owner Jerry Reinsdorf to GM Gar Forman to coach Tom Thibodeau – there had been one thing that troubled James’ about the Bulls pitch: Derrick Rose(notes) never called and tried to recruit him.

Chicago officials never directly requested Rose to reach out with a call, and the young point guard felt James could’ve always reached out to him had he wanted to discuss the possibility of playing together. James needed to be courted, needed to be wooed and apparently it surprised him there was a star who wasn’t falling over himself to do that.


All of a sudden I think I'm now a fan of Derrick Rose.
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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#68 » by Severn Hoos » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:57 am

jimij wrote:
Benjammin wrote:This was posted on the general board: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... ency071610


A different discussion had played out within the NBA and USA Basketball: What should we do with LeBron?



Great article. My favorite quote: For everything the Bulls tried to sell – from owner Jerry Reinsdorf to GM Gar Forman to coach Tom Thibodeau – there had been one thing that troubled James’ about the Bulls pitch: Derrick Rose(notes) never called and tried to recruit him.

Chicago officials never directly requested Rose to reach out with a call, and the young point guard felt James could’ve always reached out to him had he wanted to discuss the possibility of playing together. James needed to be courted, needed to be wooed and apparently it surprised him there was a star who wasn’t falling over himself to do that.


All of a sudden I think I'm now a fan of Derrick Rose.


Amen to that, jim. It's going to be strange - the closest thing to a rival that the Wiz have had in the past decade has been Chicago & Cleveland: The Bulls for the 2005 Playoffs, the Haywood-Chandler fight, etc. and of course Cleveland for everything that went on with the Cavs the past 5 years.

And yet, those two teams will be the ones I watch the scoreboard hoping for a win every night they're not playing the Wiz.

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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#69 » by willbcocks » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:44 am

Both fan groups got what they deserved--Chicago for overhyping their twin towers, Cleveland for the Lebron lovefest. We were also duly punished. I think this has made it easier to forgive them.

Now if Chicago fans start getting all insecure about Rose v Wall, **** with them might start up again...
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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#70 » by Ruzious » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:34 pm

Benjammin wrote:You just can't make this stuff up and I hope more stuff comes out as time goes on.

Actually, it does sound made up. Not including Lebron on the Olympic team based on everything we knew about him at the time would have been a MONUMENTALLY stupid idea. I find it really difficult to believe that important people considered not including him.
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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#71 » by Wizardspride » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:38 pm

willbcocks wrote:
Now if Chicago fans start getting all insecure about Rose v Wall


Unfortunately, they already have..... :(
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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#72 » by Benjammin » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:48 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Benjammin wrote:You just can't make this stuff up and I hope more stuff comes out as time goes on.

Actually, it does sound made up. Not including Lebron on the Olympic team based on everything we knew about him at the time would have been a MONUMENTALLY stupid idea. I find it really difficult to believe that important people considered not including him.


Wow Ruz, this is a story confirmed by several sources. I'm sorry that it offends your sensibilities. Basketball, unlike tennis and golf, is still a TEAM game. If the coaches couldn't work with a player, it doesn't matter how talented they are or who they are unless USA basketball was willing to change its coaching staff. Would it have been a big story at the time, absolutely, a much bigger story than when Bobby Knight left off Charles Barkley as a collegian. Would there have been reverberations and repercussions, certainly.

James and his posse have been coddled for many years. He's won at every level, except college and the pros. His image has been carefully cultivated and protected, but the truth about him is seeping out. That doesn't make him evil, just a world class narcissistic douche. He's not the first, nor will he be the last. But he needs to put on his big boy pants and accept the bad with the good. He's been on an easy ride for several years, and now he's encountering some turbulence, but it's turbulence of his own making.
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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#73 » by Ruzious » Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:18 pm

Benjammin wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Benjammin wrote:You just can't make this stuff up and I hope more stuff comes out as time goes on.

Actually, it does sound made up. Not including Lebron on the Olympic team based on everything we knew about him at the time would have been a MONUMENTALLY stupid idea. I find it really difficult to believe that important people considered not including him.


Wow Ruz, this is a story confirmed by several sources. I'm sorry that it offends your sensibilities. Basketball, unlike tennis and golf, is still a TEAM game. If the coaches couldn't work with a player, it doesn't matter how talented they are or who they are unless USA basketball was willing to change its coaching staff. Would it have been a big story at the time, absolutely, a much bigger story than when Bobby Knight left off Charles Barkley as a collegian. Would there have been reverberations and repercussions, certainly.

James and his posse have been coddled for many years. He's won at every level, except college and the pros. His image has been carefully cultivated and protected, but the truth about him is seeping out. That doesn't make him evil, just a world class narcissistic douche. He's not the first, nor will he be the last. But he needs to put on his big boy pants and accept the bad with the good. He's been on an easy ride for several years, and now he's encountering some turbulence, but it's turbulence of his own making.

So what, Ben?

We know pretty much the exact same things about Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. Actually, we know worse things about them. The only difference is that they've won NBA championships. This is obvious to any grown up NBA fan with any objectivity. Right?
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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#74 » by LyricalRico » Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:49 pm

Wasn't LeBron essentially benched in his first international competition? We all assumed it was simply because Larry Brown hated young players but the article stating that people "couldn't stand" LeBron makes total sense to me as the reason behind it. Why else would there have been no outcry (that I can recall) from Nike or the league or anyone else that one of their premier names isn't getting any run?

Oh and I don't recall MJ or Kobe ever being benched in international competition. Ever.
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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#75 » by Kanyewest » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:35 pm

LyricalRico wrote:Wasn't LeBron essentially benched in his first international competition? We all assumed it was simply because Larry Brown hated young players but the article stating that people "couldn't stand" LeBron makes total sense to me as the reason behind it. Why else would there have been no outcry (that I can recall) from Nike or the league or anyone else that one of their premier names isn't getting any run?

Oh and I don't recall MJ or Kobe ever being benched in international competition. Ever.


Kobe joined the Olympic team when he was like 30; I don't recall him being invited in 2000 when he was 22 years old. LeBron was 20 years old. Not sure why Nike would get in the business of crying about players not getting time at the Oympics. It would make them look bad. BTW, that US was really badly constructed- they really didn't have any 3 point shooting. BTW, guys like Anthony, Amare, and Wade were benched who should have gotten more playing time. I'm not sure why Stephon Marbury, Richard Jefferson, and Shawn Marion got minutes over those guys.
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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#76 » by LyricalRico » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:39 pm

Kanyewest wrote:BTW, guys like Anthony, Amare, and Wade were benched who should have gotten more playing time. I'm not sure why Stephon Marbury, Richard Jefferson, and Shawn Marion got minutes over those guys.


Oh, that was obviously due to bias by LB against young players. But LeBron didn't play because everybody involved back then knew that 6 years later we would be bashing him in this thread and wanted us to have even more ammunition. Clearly a different situation.
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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#77 » by Kanyewest » Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:20 pm

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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#78 » by BigA » Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:07 pm

LeBron turns heel.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7xlzLOZH5c[/youtube]
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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#79 » by P'Oed » Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:21 pm

anyone else find it hilarious that the Cleveland board has the same kind of thread going these days?
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Re: LeTravel, LaQween, LaDouche LaWadette Thread Pt2 

Post#80 » by fishercob » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:27 pm

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