Nothing Thread--only one opinion counts-LOCK ME

[Illuminaire]

What's most impressive to me is you guys saw Cousins go 4-19 and none of you are as down on him as many were pre-season. Also, none are quite as high on Wall as a superstar.

Too busy to say much, other than the comment about what you see now being close to what you get from Cousins could be close. But I think if he makes physical improvements and refines his offense and learns to play the refs he'll become much more effective. Always a bit floor-bound and no high-riser, but very good.

Wall's got the tools to bump to superstar but he's not as competitive as Cuz. Go figure. Wall will probably be a multiple all star in time.

Both guys have holes in their games, but Wall doesn't have a hole in his brain; whereas it remains to be seen if Cuz can chill out with ref abuse.

You were dead on about Cousin's skills, CCJ. I think you may be right about his potential, too. Sadly, your "hole in the brain" comment is dead on. Cousins could be a better version of Kevin Love... a floorbound bruiser who crushes the boards and can play inside, with excellent passing to boot. With his length, it's even possible for him to not suck at defense.

I just don't see it happening, and it's all mental.

I am definitely as high on John Wall as I was draft night, by the way. The kid is much, much better than I thought he was. I mean, he's more raw than I was expecting. He gets by on instincts and natural talent right now. He's not Chris Paul, who just seemed so technically refined coming out of college, but he's freakishly effective even without those skills.

I don't expect him to perfect every facet of the game, but if he just gets just a little better at things every year, he is going to be flat out amazing. He's Dwayne Wade re-imagined as a true point guard. Mmm, just saying that makes me cackle uncontrollably.

[DCZards]

Wall's got the tools to bump to superstar but he's not as competitive as Cuz. Go figure. Wall will probably be a multiple all star in time.

Wall not as a competitive as Cousins? Why do you say that...because he doesn't complain to the refs as much as Cousins or scowl as much as Demarcus? I haven't seen anything to suggest that Wall is not just as competitive as Cousins...if not more so.

[Kanyewest]

I think CCJ is referring to the fact how Wall gave up that layup in crunch time to an undrafted rookie. However, I wouldn't put all the blame on Wall since McGee should have been there for help defense. I also think Wall was more gassed than Cousins given that Saunders overextended him in that game.

[willbcocks]

That's called being a rookie defender, not a poor competitor. Lebron was terrible on D his first year even with his unique physical skills. If Wall doesn't improve, that casts doubt on his competitiveness.

[Kanyewest]

^^ Agreed. I suspect that Wall will improve. Only real concern I have about Wall is whether he'll be healthy enough given his style of play and the Wizards medical staff.

[hands11]

I think Wall is as competitive as anyone in the league. The guy laughs a lot on the court (usually while talking smack it looks like), but when the game is tight his demeanor sometimes turns downright nasty and he always seems to want the ball in his hands at the end.

I like several of Walls qualities and skills. I also don't like some things also.

Likes
Bullet fast
Competitive
Good court vision
Can slash to the hoop and finish, even with contact
Fast break dunking finisher.
Decent FT shooter

Dont Likes
Friends with LaDouche. I will never fully trust him if this is the case.

Show boat - I actually hate the dance. I don't watch basketball to see stupid dancing.

Reckless. He is fast but not wise about how to use it. Needs to learn to change speeds and pick his spots better and run the offense first and foremost. He is reckless and out of control with is bad for the team and his health.

He shoots to much/Ego
He has been told this is his team, which I am on record as thinking was a mistake. Somehow that translated to him that he should be shooting a lot and he isn't a great shooter. He has a little to much Gil ego in him. I hope Gil didn't infect his brain before we shipped him out. He wants to score like Derrick Rose. Well, Chicago needs that from him. Their best scoring SG is Korver and Bogan is starting and only averages 3.4 pts a game. The Wizards have Nick Young and Lewis at SF to shoot from the outside and they are way better at it than he is. And McGee is long and a great leaper for inside easy points if he get the ball passed to him at the right time. Dunks are way higher percentage shots than Wall launching from 17 ft or forcing out of control drives. With Lewis here now and with all his experience in the playoffs, Wall is starting to bound with him and respect his leadership. They also have Kirk. Make them the captain and take that unnecessary weight off this young mans shoulders. Lewis and Kirk are the leaders so false labels help nobody. And Nick is the best scorer. If Wall did less, he would be doing more.

Defense.
The was supposed to be really good at this but he isn't there with it yet. Focus on shooting less and defending more would help the team.

Summary. He want to be a Gil or Derrick Rose. I see that as his biggest problem right now. We don't need that. He would be better off and so would the team if he followed the lead of Rondo, Nash and Chris Paul. More assists. Fewer FG attempts and a steady diet of FTAs.

If he could give up 13-15 pts and 10-12 assists with solid D, that would be awesome. This roster doesn't need him shooting 19 times and putting up 25 pt games now that Nick is starting and they added Lewis. He shouldn't be shooting more than either one of them. That's not even mentioning Drays shots attempts.

Game should look more like this but with Kirk available and Wall not getting school by CP3 and having 8 turnovers. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310101027

Or like this http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=301229027
or this http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310107027

But definitely not like this http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310108030


Good news is, with Wall, Kirk, Lewis, Nick, Dray, McGee all healthy, they are 3-2

[Ruzious]

I think Wall is as competitive as anyone in the league. The guy laughs a lot on the court (usually while talking smack it looks like), but when the game is tight his demeanor sometimes turns downright nasty and he always seems to want the ball in his hands at the end.

Yeah, Wall has a clear advantage in every intangible that I can think of. I like Cousins aggressiveness - when it's controlled aggressiveness, but If Cousins was a great competitor, he'd be in better shape, and he'd show some leadership qualities.

[pancakes3]

wall's a mediocre defender at best, but what makes it worse is that he seems to underestimate a lot of the guys out there - namely shorter guys and white guys: Lou Williams, Beno Udrih, etc. Just because it's not deron williams staring you down doesn't mean you can ease up defensively. That would be a lack of "competitiveness" in my book because a guy like MJ loved reminding scrub players that he's better than them. the "tendinitis-as-an-excuse-for-not-playing" issue that a lot of NBA player/commentators (jalen rose most memorably) made note of is another minor red flag of "lack of competitiveness".

[nate33]

For the most part, I think it's real difficult to judge the competitiveness of a rookie. The switch to the NBA is a HUGE adjustment. The game is so much faster, the scouting so much better, the travel so much more grueling, and the season so much longer. I expect most rookies to get a bit shell shocked at some point.

We'll really find out the character of the player after the first offseason. If Wall comes back strong next year after having worked on his body, his shot and his overall game, then we'll know that he's the competitor we hope he is.

[tontoz]

I think Wall is as competitive as anyone in the league. The guy laughs a lot on the court (usually while talking smack it looks like), but when the game is tight his demeanor sometimes turns downright nasty and he always seems to want the ball in his hands at the end.

Summary. He want to be a Gil or Derrick Rose. I see that as his biggest problem right now. We don't need that. He would be better off and so would the team if he followed the lead of Rondo, Nash and Chris Paul. More assists. Fewer FG attempts and a steady diet of FTAs.

As a rookie Wall is averaging 9 assists on a lousy offensive team. I don't see how we can expect him to get more assists.

Rose averaged only 6 assists in his first two years. Paul averaged 8 assists as a rookie on a much better offensive team. Rondo averaged only 5 assists in his second season playing with 3 HOF players. In his 3rd year he averaged 8 assists.

Wall needs to improve his scoring, cut down his turnovers and play better D. He is doing fine in the assist column.

[willbcocks]

The dance? Wall's teammates made him do it as a hazing his first NBA game, it's not like he's doing it every night before checking in. I will admit I was scared at the beginning of the season that he would taste success too quickly and that the dancing would turn into something more, but it doesn't look like it has. He got beat up and injured, has committed some bad turnovers and defensive plays, and he's clearly not happy with his shot. But the got thing about experiencing rough patches like this is he's less likely to turn into Lebron Part II.

Also, I don't see the wanting to score like Rose--Wall's trying to set his teammates up as much as possible. Wall's shots aren't high at all considering his big minutes, the crappiness of the team, and the number of desperation heaves he takes (he shoots a lot with a second left on our many dud possessions, and, unlike say a Paul pierce, he actually shoots 50-60 foot shots with no time left without worrying about the FG%).

The defense is bad, but it was always advertised as potentially great, not currently great. On offense, I have seen improvement with the pick and roll and with hesitation moves; just the last few games he's looked more in control moving with speed.

He needs to get his conditioning up and stop finessing those cross court passes. But really it's the defense that's killing us now.

[DCZards]

Dont Likes
Friends with LaDouche. I will never fully trust him if this is the case.

Show boat - I actually hate the dance. I don't watch basketball to see stupid dancing.

Reckless. He is fast but not wise about how to use it. Needs to learn to change speeds and pick his spots better and run the offense first and foremost. He is reckless and out of control with is bad for the team and his health.

He shoots to much/Ego
He has been told this is his team, which I am on record as thinking was a mistake. Somehow that translated to him that he should be shooting a lot and he isn't a great shooter. He has a little to much Gil ego in him. I hope Gil didn't infect his brain before we shipped him out. He wants to score like Derrick Rose. Well, Chicago needs that from him. Their best scoring SG is Korver and Bogan is starting and only averages 3.4 pts a game.

Defense.
The was supposed to be really good at this but he isn't there with it yet. Focus on shooting less and defending more would help the team.

Summary. He want to be a Gil or Derrick Rose. I see that as his biggest problem right now. We don't need that. He would be better off and so would the team if he followed the lead of Rondo, Nash and Chris Paul. More assists. Fewer FG attempts and a steady diet of FTAs.

If he could give up 13-15 pts and 10-12 assists with solid D, that would be awesome.

You don’t trust Wall because he’s friends with LeBron? C’mon, hands, that’s just plain silly. Yeah, LeBron may have a huge ego and he might have done some stupid stuff (like “The Decision”), but I don’t consider him a “bad person” or a bad influence on young people. And, as far as I know, he’s never been in any trouble with the law or league for illegal stuff.

As for Wall’s dancing, hey, he’s a young dude having good, clean fun. I’m not going to hold that against him—at least at this point in his career--as long as he plays hard and smart once the game begins.

I do agree with your points on Wall shooting too much sometimes, especially since he’s not that good at it. But I’d be careful about typecasting him at this point in his career by suggesting that he needs to play more like so and so, and less like so and so. Let’s give John a chance to develop his own playing style based on his skills--and strengths and weaknesses. I certainly see him averaging more than 13-15 pts. a game.

I also agree that he needs to learn to play better defense and how to play at different speeds. I believe both of those will come with experience and practice. He certainly has the physical skills, and apparently the work ethic and smarts, to grow and excel in those areas.

[tontoz]

Right now the Wizards are giving up 5.6 more ppg when Wall is playing. That is the worst number amoung the regulars. That is a bit suprising given his length and athleticism. The only possible culprits are lack of effort and inexperience.

[verbal8]

Right now the Wizards are giving up 5.6 more ppg when Wall is playing. That is the worst number amoung the regulars. That is a bit suprising given his length and athleticism. The only possible culprits are lack of effort and inexperience.

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011WAS.HTM

Interestingly all 4 PGs(Hudson, Arenas, Hinrich and Wall) are negative net on/off. The guys who are positive(except for McGee) are the swingmen(Howard, Martin, Lewis, Young and even Thornton). I think this indicates the 2 PG line-ups are a bad idea.

[DCZards]

Right now the Wizards are giving up 5.6 more ppg when Wall is playing. That is the worst number amoung the regulars. That is a bit suprising given his length and athleticism. The only possible culprits are lack of effort and inexperience.

I think the biggest culprit as far as Wall's defense is concerned is probably health. The kid has been having issues with his wheels since the beginning of the season. Physical maturity and an offseason of some serious leg strengtheing should help with that.

[nate33]

Right now the Wizards are giving up 5.6 more ppg when Wall is playing. That is the worst number amoung the regulars. That is a bit suprising given his length and athleticism. The only possible culprits are lack of effort and inexperience.

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011WAS.HTM

Interestingly all 4 PGs(Hudson, Arenas, Hinrich and Wall) are negative net on/off. The guys who are positive(except for McGee) are the swingmen(Howard, Martin, Lewis, Young and even Thornton). I think this indicates the 2 PG line-ups are a bad idea.

Not true. When Nick Young has run point, we have an on/off differential of +3. Incidentally, Nick posts a PER of 50 at PG.

http://www.82games.com/1011/10WAS6.HTM#bypos

[tontoz]

Right now the Wizards are giving up 5.6 more ppg when Wall is playing. That is the worst number amoung the regulars. That is a bit suprising given his length and athleticism. The only possible culprits are lack of effort and inexperience.

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011WAS.HTM

Interestingly all 4 PGs(Hudson, Arenas, Hinrich and Wall) are negative net on/off. The guys who are positive(except for McGee) are the swingmen(Howard, Martin, Lewis, Young and even Thornton). I think this indicates the 2 PG line-ups are a bad idea.

Agreed. I would definitely like to see Kirk's minutes at the 2 minimized. I would also like to see Wall's minutes go down until he starts playing better. Kirk has played fairly well when playing the point for extended minutes.

The uncomfortable truth is that the best starting backcourt combo this year has been Hinrich/Young.

[hands11]

Dont Likes
Friends with LaDouche. I will never fully trust him if this is the case.

Show boat - I actually hate the dance. I don't watch basketball to see stupid dancing.

Reckless. He is fast but not wise about how to use it. Needs to learn to change speeds and pick his spots better and run the offense first and foremost. He is reckless and out of control with is bad for the team and his health.

He shoots to much/Ego
He has been told this is his team, which I am on record as thinking was a mistake. Somehow that translated to him that he should be shooting a lot and he isn't a great shooter. He has a little to much Gil ego in him. I hope Gil didn't infect his brain before we shipped him out. He wants to score like Derrick Rose. Well, Chicago needs that from him. Their best scoring SG is Korver and Bogan is starting and only averages 3.4 pts a game.

Defense.
The was supposed to be really good at this but he isn't there with it yet. Focus on shooting less and defending more would help the team.

Summary. He want to be a Gil or Derrick Rose. I see that as his biggest problem right now. We don't need that. He would be better off and so would the team if he followed the lead of Rondo, Nash and Chris Paul. More assists. Fewer FG attempts and a steady diet of FTAs.

If he could give up 13-15 pts and 10-12 assists with solid D, that would be awesome.

You don’t trust Wall because he’s friends with LeBron? C’mon, hands, that’s just plain silly. Yeah, LeBron may have a huge ego and he might have done some stupid stuff (like “The Decision”), but I don’t consider him a “bad person” or a bad influence on young people. And, as far as I know, he’s never been in any trouble with the law or league for illegal stuff.

As for Wall’s dancing, hey, he’s a young dude having good, clean fun. I’m not going to hold that against him—at least at this point in his career--as long as he plays hard and smart once the game begins.

I do agree with your points on Wall shooting too much sometimes, especially since he’s not that good at it. But I’d be careful about typecasting him at this point in his career by suggesting that he needs to play more like so and so, and less like so and so. Let’s give John a chance to develop his own playing style based on his skills--and strengths and weaknesses. I certainly see him averaging more than 13-15 pts. a game.

I also agree that he needs to learn to play better defense and how to play at different speeds. I believe both of those will come with experience and practice. He certainly has the physical skills, and apparently the work ethic and smarts, to grow and excel in those areas.

Just opinions. I don't see how what I said was silly regarding LeDouche. Young people find people to be as role models or just influential. I think LeDouche is a clueless egomaniac, be it a talented one. I remember reading somewhere about how often they talk. For me, I would rather that not be the case. Who knows what idea or influence he would get from that. And LeDouche is a big time scorer and marketing junkie. I don't want another PG who see that as a main goal. That to me is more like a Gil, and I don't want that here. But that's just me.

As for who he seems to be emulating in style, I think that was a far thing to evaluate given how many games they have played. As for now, that is what it looks like. I believe he shots to much. I said they same thing of a young Gil back in his first year here and that trend seemed to stay with him. Hey, set a boat off course by 2% and travel 100 miles and you will end up in a different place. But I trust he has people around him both coaches and teammates who are working with him. Even as great as he is doing with assists, I believe he has even more in him. To my eyes, that is his greatest skill. Even in college it looked that way. He can get the ball to people and it just looks like a no big deal pass but he knows why to do it. Next thing you know he has 8 assists and it didn't even look like anything special. Then he also add stuff like that really nice left handed across court pass that he made to Nick. That is what a Nash or a CP3 does that I find amazing. They just see the court so well. I see a Derrick Rose as another type. A type I don't think this team needs as configured.

But we did see some things similarly also. Nothing silly about not seeing everything the same.

[hands11]

Right now the Wizards are giving up 5.6 more ppg when Wall is playing. That is the worst number amoung the regulars. That is a bit suprising given his length and athleticism. The only possible culprits are lack of effort and inexperience.

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011WAS.HTM

Interestingly all 4 PGs(Hudson, Arenas, Hinrich and Wall) are negative net on/off. The guys who are positive(except for McGee) are the swingmen(Howard, Martin, Lewis, Young and even Thornton). I think this indicates the 2 PG line-ups are a bad idea.

Agreed. I would definitely like to see Kirk's minutes at the 2 minimized. I would also like to see Wall's minutes go down until he starts playing better. Kirk has played fairly well when playing the point for extended minutes.

The uncomfortable truth is that the best starting backcourt combo this year has been Hinrich/Young.

That is why I said, if we really just wanted to win now and let Wall heal up some, and get some of the weight off his shoulders, then that is what they would start. At least for a little while. We have time to grow him as a player and a star talent. I just believe they are rushing things a little with him.
Making him captain may have made some sense at the time, but as we are now, I don't think it does. I actually think it has something to do with him shooting so much. He feels like he has to fill though shoes.

Lewis and Kirk are clearly the captions in reality. Who knows more about the NBA and the playoffs and being an NBA professional - Lewis and Kirk or Wall. If the season were to start over again today and this was our roster, I don't think Wall would be a captain. I actually think the way they have it is even a little uncomfortable to him and the team. Kind of king without a real crown. Lewis and Kirk should be showing him the way to be a captain while they are the ones doing it. That's how a top organization that is winning would do it. Tim Duncan I don't believe was a captain his first year. David Robinson was even though he moved over for Timmy D.

But these are the kind of things that happen when you have a losing franchise and your trying to gain a positive identity after you go through something like the Gil thing. Hell, there main offensive focus starting PF wasn't even of the make up that would allow you to use him as a captain. That's how bad it was here. But at least now we replaced Gil with Lewis so we have two experienced quality vets who are taking on that role. And your other top producing start SG is shy enough that he doesn't want that role so there is no conflict there. And Flip and Sam are clearly leaders as coaches. Lewis, Kirk, Flip and Sam are the ones really leading this team.

[fugop]

Just opinions. I don't see how what I said was silly regarding LeDouche. Young people find people to be as role models or just influential. I think LeDouche is a clueless egomaniac, be it a talented one. I remember reading somewhere about how often they talk. For me, I would rather that not be the case. Who knows what idea or influence he would get from that. And LeDouche is a big time scorer and marketing junkie. I don't want another PG who see that as a main goal. That to me is more like a Gil, and I don't want that here. But that's just me.

This definitely worries me about Wall. The two people I most loath in basketball are Calipari and James, comes with the territory of being a Louisville and Wizards fan. His gleeful association with charlatans is cause of concern.

That said, it's the complete opposite of Gilbert. Scorer or not, he didn't think himself to be God's gift or above the rules.