2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3...

closg00 · Post #61 » by **closg00** » Mon May 16, 2011 12:53 pm

If Vaseley was a shooter I wouldn't mind him so-much, I'd put him behind Valanciunas & Donatas on my board for the 5th or 6th spot. It may be just a few spots too-high, but Donatas at a minimum, could be a very good offensive option - he is a very good three point shooter who could get minutes in Flip's "system". We could take Singleton with the 2nd pick for defense.

GhostsOfGil · Post #62 » by **GhostsOfGil** » Mon May 16, 2011 1:26 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Anyone catch the Bulls/Heat game last night? Bulls outrebounded Miami to death. We need HEIGHT, preferably some skills to go with that height.

i wish mcgee would learn to play like gibson and kanter could be our noah

fishercob · Post #63 » by **fishercob** » Mon May 16, 2011 1:31 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Anyone catch the Bulls/Heat game last night? Bulls outrebounded Miami to death. We need HEIGHT, preferably some skills to go with that height.

Height maketh not a rebounder, as evidenced by Dray and Vale.

Post #64 » by **Rafael122** » Mon May 16, 2011 1:44 pm

fishercob wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:Anyone catch the Bulls/Heat game last night? Bulls outrebounded Miami to death. We need HEIGHT, preferably some skills to go with that height.

Height maketh not a rebounder, as evidenced by Dray and Vale.

Hmm...ok, how about skilled big men? Works?

closg00 · Post #65 » by **closg00** » Mon May 16, 2011 1:57 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Anyone catch the Bulls/Heat game last night? Bulls outrebounded Miami to death. We need HEIGHT, preferably some skills to go with that height.

Here-here, we do need a rebounder and guys that play with the kind of fire that Noah does. Serphin, while having the size, hasn't shown the fire and rebounding ability that we need. Kawhi Leonard was an excellent college rebounder, Markieff Morris, Faried, & Jordan Williams fit the bill as-well.

Post #66 » by **nate33** » Mon May 16, 2011 1:59 pm

fishercob wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:Anyone catch the Bulls/Heat game last night? Bulls outrebounded Miami to death. We need HEIGHT, preferably some skills to go with that height.

Height maketh not a rebounder, as evidenced by Dray and Vale.

To be fair, McGee ranked 15th in total rebound percentage (2000 minutes played cutoff). That's not bad. Now that he has presumably stopped growing, he can probably fill out a bit and creep into the top 10. I don't think he'll ever be Dwight Howard or Kevin Love, but he could end up in the Bogut/Duncan echelon of rebounders.

fishercob · Post #67 » by **fishercob** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:07 pm

closg00 wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:Anyone catch the Bulls/Heat game last night? Bulls outrebounded Miami to death. We need HEIGHT, preferably some skills to go with that height.

Here-here, we do need a rebounder and guys that play with the kind of fire that Noah does. Serphin, while having the size, hasn't shown the fire and rebounding ability that we need. Kawhi Leonard was an excellent college rebounder, Markieff Morris, Faried, & Jordan Williams fit the bill as-well.

So you're writing off Seraphin?

9abovetherim · Post #68 » by **9abovetherim** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:07 pm

or bust!

closg00 · Post #69 » by **closg00** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:30 pm

fishercob wrote:
closg00 wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:Anyone catch the Bulls/Heat game last night? Bulls outrebounded Miami to death. We need HEIGHT, preferably some skills to go with that height.

Here-here, we do need a rebounder and guys that play with the kind of fire that Noah does. Serphin, while having the size, hasn't shown the fire and rebounding ability that we need. Kawhi Leonard was an excellent college rebounder, Markieff Morris, Faried, & Jordan Williams fit the bill as-well.

So you're writing off Seraphin?

Not writing-off Kevin, he needs playing-time and a big-man coach IMO. Meanwhile, bring-on a rebounder.

Post #70 » by **Ruzious** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:36 pm

9abovetherim wrote: or bust!

Speaking of rebounding, Vesely's rebounding rate is astonishingly bad for a guy his size.

Seraphin was a rebounding enigma as a rook - excellent on the offensive boards and awful on the defensive boards. He's obviously got to improve on the D boards, and I'd be very surprised if he doesn't - considering he's got the ability and attitude to be an excellent rebounder.

Obviously, great height isn't necessary for great rebounding - especially when you can see guys 6'10 and under being among the best in the NBA - KLove, ZBo, Blake Griffin, Evans, Lee, Boozer, etc, etc.

Chicago's excelling with their length because their front line has DEVELOPED as they've gained experience. A couple of years ago, these same players wouldn't be anywhere near as effective as they are now. Chi's D really matches up well against a team that drives to the hoop, and that's Miami. All that athletic and defensive-minded length with guys in their prime is very effective. It's a WizNas lesson for us. Miami is facing their nightmare defense - coached by a defensive guru.

But... that does not mean the Wiz should copy what Chicago did in the draft. But do learn from their mistakes - don't pick an offensive-minded forward who can't shoot - like James Johnson - in the 1st round.

NbdyBeatsTheWiz · Post #71 » by **NbdyBeatsTheWiz** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:42 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Anyone catch the Bulls/Heat game last night? Bulls outrebounded Miami to death. We need HEIGHT, preferably some skills to go with that height.

Height + Hustle.

The Bulls are so fun to watch. Thibs coaches them up like no other (MAN is that still a sore spot every time I'm reminded he's got a coaching job and it ain't DC...) on defense and crashing the glass. Trust me I enjoy watching constant hustle far more than "talent" or a freakish athlete who jumps out of the gym once or twice a game. Not to mention the little fact it WINS BASKETBALL GAMES. A lot of organizations in the league seem to miss that point.

theboomking · Post #72 » by **theboomking** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:46 pm

Anybody here working with some pre-lotto superstitions/voodoo?

I agree, I don't want Vesely. A long athletic player that can't shoot and doesn't rebound is a poor fit here. As bad as Vesely's FT shooting is, I hold little hope of him ever becoming an adequate perimeter threat. Has there ever been a guy who shot in the 50's from the FT line, and wound up becoming a solid perimeter threat? I'd rather have Biyombo, or even Singleton or Leonard.

fishercob · Post #73 » by **fishercob** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:59 pm

theboomking wrote:Anybody here working with some pre-lotto superstitions/voodoo?

I haven't worn pants for four days. So...yeah, that's because of the lottery.

Post #74 » by **Ruzious** » Mon May 16, 2011 2:59 pm

theboomking wrote:Anybody here working with some pre-lotto superstitions/voodoo?

I agree, I don't want Vesely. A long athletic player that can't shoot and doesn't rebound is a poor fit here. As bad as Vesely's FT shooting is, I hold little hope of him ever becoming an adequate perimeter threat. Has there ever been a guy who shot in the 50's from the FT line, and wound up becoming a solid perimeter threat? I'd rather have Biyombo, or even Singleton or Leonard.

The last I remember is Otis Birdsong from way back in the day. He was the classic exception to the rule - a really good long range jump shooter but a lousy free throw shooter.

Karl Malone came into the NBA as a horrible FT shooter but worked so hard at it that he became a very solid FT shooter and mid range jump shooter. Guys who work as hard as Karl Malone are few and far between.

fishercob · Post #75 » by **fishercob** » Mon May 16, 2011 3:14 pm

closg00 wrote:
fishercob wrote:
closg00 wrote:Here-here, we do need a rebounder and guys that play with the kind of fire that Noah does. Serphin, while having the size, hasn't shown the fire and rebounding ability that we need. Kawhi Leonard was an excellent college rebounder, Markieff Morris, Faried, & Jordan Williams fit the bill as-well.

So you're writing off Seraphin?

Not writing-off Kevin, he needs playing-time and a big-man coach IMO. Meanwhile, bring-on a rebounder.

I agree with you that Kevin needs to develop some skills to stay on the court. I also agree that a skilled 4 like the guys we've discussed would be a welcome addition. I would like to see Blatche have to fight for his job against the likes of Booker/Faried/Javale/Seraphin.

theboomking · Post #76 » by **theboomking** » Mon May 16, 2011 3:27 pm

fishercob wrote:
theboomking wrote:Anybody here working with some pre-lotto superstitions/voodoo?

I haven't worn pants for four days. So...yeah, that's because of the lottery.

I hope you work from home, or that you have understanding office mates.

closg00 · Post #77 » by **closg00** » Mon May 16, 2011 4:35 pm

Mike (To)

If you were the GM of the raps and had third pick who you taking?

David Thorpe (12:18 PM)

My top 3 college players are Irving, Williams, and Marcus Morris. It may sound self-serving, but I only had Morris here for 5 days. I taught him nothing. I think he can be a star, and will be a 18-22 ppg scorer in this league.

Irving, Williams, and Morris??? Wow! I don't know Thorpe's record on predicting draft picks, but this got my attention.

fishercob · Post #78 » by **fishercob** » Mon May 16, 2011 4:38 pm

closg00 wrote:
Mike (To)

If you were the GM of the raps and had third pick who you taking?

David Thorpe (12:18 PM)

My top 3 college players are Irving, Williams, and Marcus Morris. It may sound self-serving, but I only had Morris here for 5 days. I taught him nothing. I think he can be a star, and will be a 18-22 ppg scorer in this league.

Irving, Williams, and Morris??? Wow! I don't know Thorpe's record on predicting draft picks, but this got my attention.

I dunno. He's very embedded in the NBA world, but also thought the Yi trade (e-trade?) was going to be a huge steal for the Wiz and Yi was going to blossom here.

Post #79 » by **Rafael122** » Mon May 16, 2011 4:44 pm

Interesting tweet from DraftExpress:

Utah fans, start learning how to pronounce the name Donatas Motiejunas. Hearing the Jazz really really like him at #6.

So I asked DX a question via twitter, not expecting a reply. I asked if there was any truth to the rumors of the Wizards being high on Vesely like it was said on nbadraft.net, well here's the reply:

That's definitely out there. Makes sense depending on lottery results.

If you have Twittah, you can follow them @DraftExpress.

Better start digging up info on this guy now. Meh.

Post #80 » by **nate33** » Mon May 16, 2011 5:10 pm

closg00 wrote:
Mike (To)

If you were the GM of the raps and had third pick who you taking?

David Thorpe (12:18 PM)

My top 3 college players are Irving, Williams, and Marcus Morris. It may sound self-serving, but I only had Morris here for 5 days. I taught him nothing. I think he can be a star, and will be a 18-22 ppg scorer in this league.

Irving, Williams, and Morris??? Wow! I don't know Thorpe's record on predicting draft picks, but this got my attention.

He's not really going that far out on a limb. Everyone has Irving and Williams as the top two college players. After that, there's a bunch of Euros who are right in the mix with the next-tier of college players. Depending on which mock you look at, any of Vesely, Kanter, Valanciunas, Motiejunas or Biyombo could go ahead of the next college player. Morris could go as late as 8th and still prove Thorpe is correct in his assessment.

Basically, he's only saying that Morris ranks ahead of Knight, Walker, Burks, Leonard and Thompson. I can't see a real strong reason to dispute that opinion. Frankly, I don't have a handle on who among that group is the best.