We need to go back to last years style of play

Post #61 » by **Ruzious** » Thu Nov 5, 2015 6:59 pm

Yeah, I think it's just a bit early to be doing a statistical analysis of the season.

gtn130 · Post #62 » by **gtn130** » Thu Nov 5, 2015 7:02 pm

Ruzious wrote:Yeah, I think it's just a bit early to be doing a statistical analysis of the season.

You're hand-waving them because they conflict with your argument. I acknowledge that it's early, but Dudley has looked the best and the numbers support that.

Post #63 » by **Ruzious** » Thu Nov 5, 2015 7:06 pm

gtn130 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Yeah, I think it's just a bit early to be doing a statistical analysis of the season.

You're hand-waving them because they conflict with your argument. I acknowledge that it's early, but Dudley has looked the best and the numbers support that.

I'm hand-waving them for the reason YOU brought up... twice - that it's early. You did a 3 game statistical analysis...

Dat2U · Post #64 » by **Dat2U** » Thu Nov 5, 2015 7:07 pm

Ruzious wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:All 3 of them are hurting us when they're out there. None of them are adequate starters. You seem to think I like Hump as a starter - I don't. But the other 2 are clearly worse at this point in their careers. If I was going to form a YMCA team, I'd definitely pick Dudley. And if Gooden would assure me that he's going to not fall asleep on defense and move on offense when he doesn't have the ball, I'd pick him. But playing in the real world NBA, I'd take Hump.

Dudley lineups have been the best by mile at this point.

Dudley had very little to do with that. Almost all of his minutes were in the 4th quarter - when Wall and Beal took over the game at both ends of the court by increasing the tempo against a tired and old SA backcourt. Halfcourt offense had very little to do with the Wiz success in the 4th quarter, and if you think Dudley was a reason for the increased tempo, God love you.

Dudley had a lot to do with that... why do you think the tempo increased? Better spacing, defenses actually know Dudley is a capable shooter and not just another big trying to expand his game, they have to respect him. Why do you think Wall & Beal were able to go off? Better spacing and ball movement. Dudley moves the ball better than either Hump or Gooden. It's the subtle things that you won't see in the stats... and that's one of the main reasons I'm not a huge fan of production measurement tools anymore. Dudley's numbers don't look great, but his presence is making things easier for our guards.

Post #65 » by **Ruzious** » Thu Nov 5, 2015 7:09 pm

Guys, I've made my points and spent more time than I should have on it. We'll agree to disagree.

gtn130 · Post #66 » by **gtn130** » Thu Nov 5, 2015 7:13 pm

Ruzious wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Yeah, I think it's just a bit early to be doing a statistical analysis of the season.

You're hand-waving them because they conflict with your argument. I acknowledge that it's early, but Dudley has looked the best and the numbers support that.

I'm hand-waving them for the reason YOU brought up... twice - that it's early. You did a 3 game statistical analysis...

You're missing the point. I was providing evidence that Dudley has been demonstrably the best through four games, and it isn't something that's disputable. I'm conceding that you could argue Dudley won't be the best in the future, but it doesn't seem like you're even arguing that and you're instead saying that Humphries has been better, which is almost definitely false.

AFM · Post #67 » by **AFM** » Thu Nov 5, 2015 7:15 pm

Jared Fudgely

Post #68 » by **nate33** » Thu Nov 5, 2015 7:21 pm

I'm in Ruzious' camp on this. Dudley maybe better than Humphries, but it's a bad idea to start an extremely undersized power forward and play him 36 minutes a night against opposing starters. Start Hump, let him bang against the other starter for the first 8 minutes of each half, and finish halves with Dudley.

gtn130 · Post #69 » by **gtn130** » Thu Nov 5, 2015 7:45 pm

nate33 wrote:I'm in Ruzious' camp on this. Dudley maybe better than Humphries, but it's a bad idea to start an extremely undersized power forward and play him 36 minutes a night against opposing starters. Start Hump, let him bang against the other starter for the first 8 minutes of each half, and finish halves with Dudley.

That seems fair as long as Hump keeps improving. All three have some serious limitations, and I'm really not sure why Gooden is in the rotation at all at this point unless it's for rest/injury mitigation purposes.

Dat2U · Post #70 » by **Dat2U** » Thu Nov 5, 2015 7:55 pm

nate33 wrote:I'm in Ruzious' camp on this. Dudley maybe better than Humphries, but it's a bad idea to start an extremely undersized power forward and play him 36 minutes a night against opposing starters. Start Hump, let him bang against the other starter for the first 8 minutes of each half, and finish halves with Dudley.

I don't think anyone thinks Dudley is a 36 minute a night PF. But starting him... so he can get most of his time alongside Wall & Beal seems like a good idea IMO instead of Hump who still clogs the floor despite his best efforts to add dimensions to his game or Gooden who can't be reliably counted on day in and day out.

Dat2U · Post #71 » by **Dat2U** » Thu Nov 5, 2015 8:00 pm

gtn130 wrote:
nate33 wrote:I'm in Ruzious' camp on this. Dudley maybe better than Humphries, but it's a bad idea to start an extremely undersized power forward and play him 36 minutes a night against opposing starters. Start Hump, let him bang against the other starter for the first 8 minutes of each half, and finish halves with Dudley.

That seems fair as long as Hump keeps improving. All three have some serious limitations, and I'm really not sure why Gooden is in the rotation at all at this point unless it's for rest/injury mitigation purposes.

I'll believe hump is improving when it actually happens, until then i would not start him and would alternate Hump/Gooden as backup PF based on who's playing well and who's not.

Post #72 » by **Rafael122** » Thu Nov 5, 2015 8:46 pm

Yeah I'm not really sure why Witt goes w/Gooden as the first big off the bench and then waits to put in Dudley in the 4th. I realize Dudley isn't in game shape at the moment but put him in early to get his feet wet.

Post #73 » by **nate33** » Thu Nov 5, 2015 9:44 pm

Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:I'm in Ruzious' camp on this. Dudley maybe better than Humphries, but it's a bad idea to start an extremely undersized power forward and play him 36 minutes a night against opposing starters. Start Hump, let him bang against the other starter for the first 8 minutes of each half, and finish halves with Dudley.

I don't think anyone thinks Dudley is a 36 minute a night PF. But starting him... so he can get most of his time alongside Wall & Beal seems like a good idea IMO instead of Hump who still clogs the floor despite his best efforts to add dimensions to his game or Gooden who can't be reliably counted on day in and day out.

The problem with that strategy is that it matches Dudley up against starters for most of his time on the floor. Dudley can't defend starting PFs when they're rested and fresh.

Post #74 » by **montestewart** » Thu Nov 5, 2015 10:31 pm

Dat2U wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
nate33 wrote:I'm in Ruzious' camp on this. Dudley maybe better than Humphries, but it's a bad idea to start an extremely undersized power forward and play him 36 minutes a night against opposing starters. Start Hump, let him bang against the other starter for the first 8 minutes of each half, and finish halves with Dudley.

That seems fair as long as Hump keeps improving. All three have some serious limitations, and I'm really not sure why Gooden is in the rotation at all at this point unless it's for rest/injury mitigation purposes.

I'll believe hump is improving when it actually happens, until then i would not start him and would alternate Hump/Gooden as backup PF based on who's playing well and who's not.

Agree with bolded, and I assume an in shape Dudley would be the best option, but considering the various limitations of Wittman's PF choices, I'm not inclined to second guess his PF rotation at this point. nate33's point about an out-of-shape and recovering Dudley going against fresh starters makes sense, and maybe coach knows something we don't about Dudley's health.

AFM · Post #75 » by **AFM** » Thu Nov 5, 2015 10:49 pm

montestewart wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
That seems fair as long as Hump keeps improving. All three have some serious limitations, and I'm really not sure why Gooden is in the rotation at all at this point unless it's for rest/injury mitigation purposes.

I'll believe hump is improving when it actually happens, until then i would not start him and would alternate Hump/Gooden as backup PF based on who's playing well and who's not.

Agree with bolded, and I assume an in shape Dudley would be the best option, but considering the various limitations of Wittman's PF choices, I'm not inclined to second guess his PF rotation at this point. nate33's point about an out-of-shape and recovering Dudley going against fresh starters makes sense, and maybe coach knows something we don't about Dudley's health.

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Illmatic12 · Post #76 » by **Illmatic12** » Thu Nov 5, 2015 10:52 pm

nate33 wrote:I'm in Ruzious' camp on this. Dudley maybe better than Humphries, but it's a bad idea to start an extremely undersized power forward and play him 36 minutes a night against opposing starters. Start Hump, let him bang against the other starter for the first 8 minutes of each half, and finish halves with Dudley.

Agreed, this is the obvious course of action imo. Dudley isn't a starter, he's a great guy to bring in after the pace of the game has already been established.

Hump is more physical and better at running the floor, crashing the boards.. that's who you'd rather start games with.

Kanyewest · Post #77 » by **Kanyewest** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 6:38 am

Rafael122 wrote:Yeah I'm not really sure why Witt goes w/Gooden as the first big off the bench and then waits to put in Dudley in the 4th. I realize Dudley isn't in game shape at the moment but put him in early to get his feet wet.

The reason why Gooden has gotten to go in first is because he is probably seen as the better player at the moment than Dudley going into that game. Gooden played badly enough in the past few games which has given Dudley the opportunity to get playing time in the 4th quarter.

Interestingly enough, Gooden shot better from 3 last season than Dudley, although I agree with Dat the just seems like a very intelligent and unselfish player.

Kanyewest · Post #78 » by **Kanyewest** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 6:43 am

Dat2U wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
Dudley lineups have been the best by mile at this point.

Dudley had very little to do with that. Almost all of his minutes were in the 4th quarter - when Wall and Beal took over the game at both ends of the court by increasing the tempo against a tired and old SA backcourt. Halfcourt offense had very little to do with the Wiz success in the 4th quarter, and if you think Dudley was a reason for the increased tempo, God love you.

Dudley had a lot to do with that... why do you think the tempo increased? Better spacing, defenses actually know Dudley is a capable shooter and not just another big trying to expand his game, they have to respect him. Why do you think Wall & Beal were able to go off? Better spacing and ball movement. Dudley moves the ball better than either Hump or Gooden. It's the subtle things that you won't see in the stats... and that's one of the main reasons I'm not a huge fan of production measurement tools anymore. Dudley's numbers don't look great, but his presence is making things easier for our guards.

You have to wonder how much of that respect is just based on past reputation. Dudley did roast the Spurs in the postseason by nailing open 3s when he was with the Suns. Still, San Antonio probably showed Dudley too much respect given that he's out of shape and right now is only shooting 25% from 3.

Dark Faze · Post #79 » by **Dark Faze** » Sun Nov 8, 2015 12:17 pm

Its not working. We don't have the roster to do this--we're getting gouged every night.

I'd seriously have tried Oubre at the 3 and Porter at the 4 by now, and its a lineup I called for at the beginning of the season. Simply put, if you run that up and down offense, its the best chance you've got right now because Dudley isn't in shape or in condition atm.

FAH1223 · Post #80 » by **FAH1223** » Sun Nov 8, 2015 5:08 pm

Dark Faze wrote:Its not working. We don't have the roster to do this--we're getting gouged every night.

I'd seriously have tried Oubre at the 3 and Porter at the 4 by now, and its a lineup I called for at the beginning of the season. Simply put, if you run that up and down offense, its the best chance you've got right now because Dudley isn't in shape or in condition atm.

Otto isn't rebounding like he did in the playoffs though