Official Trade Thread - Part XXXII

[payitforward]

We are not a terrible team either. What will trading Gortat and a pick for another center do for us? nothing, we still have a great starting 5 and bench issues, and a couple of contracts that we need to move. What would trading Morris and a pick for another PF do for us? very little, we still have a great starting 5 and bench issues and a couple of contracts that we need to move. We either need to do nothing, and hit the free agent market and beef up the point guard spot and hope Mahinmi comes back in shape, Or we make moves to make the bench better and you pay the price to do so. You either do what the team needs, and pay the price to do it, or do nothing at all.

We don't even have a top 10 player in the league. Nobody wins in the NBA anymore without a MVP player. What's the end goal here? 2nd best team in the East? If so, surrounding the core with solid veterans is the way to go. But honestly, I think your views align exactly with Ted's and Ernie's goals.

You don't think John Wall is a MVP candidate if we continue at this pace and finish 2nd best in the east? Doesn't a 2nd place finish draw FAs to DC? We have some of the top players at their position in the east, you don't think this team can ever win the east without a top 10 player? Lebron is getting old you know.

Oh man.... You are really dreaming aren't you Nat? I mean you have a vision here, you really do.... Thing is, it ain't related to reality.

We are 23-19, because we have played so many games at home. That's not a speculative statement; that's not a dream; that's a plain & simple fact. We only have 17 home games left in the season. How many do you think we're going to win, Nat? Are we going to win all of them? Have you actually looked at our schedule in March & April? Don't look unless you want to wake up from your dream.

No, btw, John Wall is not an MVP candidate. John Wall, pure & simple, is not that good a player. He's not an MVP player. He's not even near an MVP player. He's very very good, you bet. But... oh what's the point, right? Someone who posts what you just posted is so far from thinking realistically there's no point in interacting.

[deneem4]

We don't even have a top 10 player in the league. Nobody wins in the NBA anymore without a MVP player. What's the end goal here? 2nd best team in the East? If so, surrounding the core with solid veterans is the way to go. But honestly, I think your views align exactly with Ted's and Ernie's goals.

You don't think John Wall is a MVP candidate if we continue at this pace and finish 2nd best in the east? Doesn't a 2nd place finish draw FAs to DC? We have some of the top players at their position in the east, you don't think this team can ever win the east without a top 10 player? Lebron is getting old you know.

Oh man.... You are really dreaming aren't you Nat? I mean you have a vision here, you really do.... Thing is, it ain't related to reality.

We are 23-19, because we have played so many games at home. That's not a speculative statement; that's not a dream; that's a plain & simple fact. We only have 17 home games left in the season. How many do you think we're going to win, Nat? Are we going to win all of them? Have you actually looked at our schedule in March & April? Don't look unless you want to wake up from your dream.

No, btw, John Wall is not an MVP candidate. John Wall, pure & simple, is not that good a player. He's not an MVP player. He's not even near an MVP player. He's very very good, you bet. But... oh what's the point, right? Someone who posts what you just posted is so far from thinking realistically there's no point in interacting.

John wall is definitely a top 10 MVP candidate...
Tier 1
Westbrook
Harden
Lebron
4a Durant (but not really cuz 4b curry)
kwahi

Tier 1a
Giannas(team not in playoffs)
Cousins(team not in playoffs)
Davis(team not in playoffs)

Tier 2
It
Wall
Butler
Cp3
Derozan(but not really cuz Lowry)
Conley(but not really cuz gasol)
George

Tier 3
Kemba
Embiid
hayward
Jokic
Lillard
Towns

Even more reference

http://www.nba.com/article/2017/01/20/mvp-ladder-week-11-giannis-antetokounmpo-rise-stardom?collection=mvp-ladder

If the NBA says you're a top 10 MVP candidate you're a top player

[NatP4]

You don't think John Wall is a MVP candidate if we continue at this pace and finish 2nd best in the east? Doesn't a 2nd place finish draw FAs to DC? We have some of the top players at their position in the east, you don't think this team can ever win the east without a top 10 player? Lebron is getting old you know.

Oh man.... You are really dreaming aren't you Nat? I mean you have a vision here, you really do.... Thing is, it ain't related to reality.

We are 23-19, because we have played so many games at home. That's not a speculative statement; that's not a dream; that's a plain & simple fact. We only have 17 home games left in the season. How many do you think we're going to win, Nat? Are we going to win all of them? Have you actually looked at our schedule in March & April? Don't look unless you want to wake up from your dream.

No, btw, John Wall is not an MVP candidate. John Wall, pure & simple, is not that good a player. He's not an MVP player. He's not even near an MVP player. He's very very good, you bet. But... oh what's the point, right? Someone who posts what you just posted is so far from thinking realistically there's no point in interacting.

John wall is definitely a top 10 MVP candidate...
Tier 1
Westbrook
Harden
Lebron
4a Durant (but not really cuz 4b curry)
kwahi

Tier 1a
Giannas(team not in playoffs)
Cousins(team not in playoffs)
Davis(team not in playoffs)

Tier 2
It
Wall
Butler
Cp3
Derozan(but not really cuz Lowry)
Conley(but not really cuz gasol)
George

Tier 3
Kemba
Embiid
hayward
Jokic
Lillard
Towns

Even more reference

http://www.nba.com/article/2017/01/20/mvp-ladder-week-11-giannis-antetokounmpo-rise-stardom?collection=mvp-ladder

If the NBA says you're a top 10 MVP candidate you're a top player

I also said that Wall would be a MVP candidate IF we continue at this pace and finish 2nd in the east, but PIF does that selective reading thing.

[CobraCommander]

Oh man.... You are really dreaming aren't you Nat? I mean you have a vision here, you really do.... Thing is, it ain't related to reality.

We are 23-19, because we have played so many games at home. That's not a speculative statement; that's not a dream; that's a plain & simple fact. We only have 17 home games left in the season. How many do you think we're going to win, Nat? Are we going to win all of them? Have you actually looked at our schedule in March & April? Don't look unless you want to wake up from your dream.

No, btw, John Wall is not an MVP candidate. John Wall, pure & simple, is not that good a player. He's not an MVP player. He's not even near an MVP player. He's very very good, you bet. But... oh what's the point, right? Someone who posts what you just posted is so far from thinking realistically there's no point in interacting.

John wall is definitely a top 10 MVP candidate...
Tier 1
Westbrook
Harden
Lebron
4a Durant (but not really cuz 4b curry)
kwahi

Tier 1a
Giannas(team not in playoffs)
Cousins(team not in playoffs)
Davis(team not in playoffs)

Tier 2
It
Wall
Butler
Cp3
Derozan(but not really cuz Lowry)
Conley(but not really cuz gasol)
George

Tier 3
Kemba
Embiid
hayward
Jokic
Lillard
Towns

Even more reference

http://www.nba.com/article/2017/01/20/mvp-ladder-week-11-giannis-antetokounmpo-rise-stardom?collection=mvp-ladder

If the NBA says you're a top 10 MVP candidate you're a top player

I also said that Wall would be a MVP candidate IF we continue at this pace and finish 2nd in the east, but PIF does that selective reading thing.

I am not saying Wall is a MVP candidate...but if the Wiz were to finish second in the east...why wouldn't Wall be an MVP candidate? I mean the Wiz are being carried by Wall right now. I am not saying that Morris, Beal, Gortat, Kelly and Otto dont bring it...its just they all rotate when one of them is going to be invisible. Wall has a bad game, sure, but even those games are normally sandwiched between two amazing games. Look Wall isnt an MVP level talent...but if Wall were to drag a team with no bench to the top of the conference (unless Beal takes off and becomes at least robin to his batsman) he would be a honorable mention for MVP and he would be a lock for a All NBA team.

BTW- i agree that Lowry and Derozen are not considered because they have each other....

BUT I dont get Conley being considered at all. Like Bomoni Jones said- Conley aint a legend on the court but he is a Legend at the bank!

[gambitx777]

We aren't the defending champs.

We are not a terrible team either. What will trading Gortat and a pick for another center do for us? nothing, we still have a great starting 5 and bench issues, and a couple of contracts that we need to move. What would trading Morris and a pick for another PF do for us? very little, we still have a great starting 5 and bench issues and a couple of contracts that we need to move. We either need to do nothing, and hit the free agent market and beef up the point guard spot and hope Mahinmi comes back in shape, Or we make moves to make the bench better and you pay the price to do so. You either do what the team needs, and pay the price to do it, or do nothing at all.

We have a great starting 3. Gortat is a decent starting 5 and Morris is a bad starter. We simply aren't that good, and trading away draft picks is a big reason why our bench is the worst in the league.

I think you missed my point we have 5 good starters. All the hate morris gets, he has played well this year, just look at his numbers. we have the starting 5 to contend. We need a bench, our bench has nothing to do with drafting, it has everything to do with E.G. making bad moves in FA. There were player out there we could have made an effort to get that would have been a better benefit to our bench. and yet here we are. Say we kept those picks, E.G. one of the worst talent evaluators in the league is doing the drafting.

[tontoz]

I think you missed my point we have 5 good starters. All the hate morris gets, he has played well this year, just look at his numbers. we have the starting 5 to contend. We need a bench, our bench has nothing to do with drafting, it has everything to do with E.G. making bad moves in FA. There were player out there we could have made an effort to get that would have been a better benefit to our bench. and yet here we are. Say we kept those picks, E.G. one of the worst talent evaluators in the league is doing the drafting.

Among 4s Morris ranks 44th in rebounding rate and 50th in TS.

http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/trueShootingPct

He ranks 38th in RPM

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/6

He is far from being good.

[dckingsfan]

I am not saying Wall is a MVP candidate...but if the Wiz were to finish second in the east...why wouldn't Wall be an MVP candidate?

If everyone else on the Wizards stayed the same, and we were second in the east, he would in fact be an MVP candidate. My logic is that he would be accounting for ~ 6 more points per game (differential) (either through assists or scoring) with his same usage rate.

If we chose just scoring, his TS% would be ~ 0.673 that would put him above Curry - so yes, he would be in the discussion.

[Meliorus]

I think you missed my point we have 5 good starters. All the hate morris gets, he has played well this year, just look at his numbers. we have the starting 5 to contend. We need a bench, our bench has nothing to do with drafting, it has everything to do with E.G. making bad moves in FA. There were player out there we could have made an effort to get that would have been a better benefit to our bench. and yet here we are. Say we kept those picks, E.G. one of the worst talent evaluators in the league is doing the drafting.

Among 4s Morris ranks 44th in rebounding rate and 50th in TS.

http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/trueShootingPct

He ranks 38th in RPM

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/6

He is far from being good.

In his defense his RPM has climbed about 10 spots in the past week. When he plays well we're tough to beat. He just plays well in 30% of games. I also like that he's taking a lot of threes, earlier in the season he would hesitate and dribble in.

[gambitx777]

I think you missed my point we have 5 good starters. All the hate morris gets, he has played well this year, just look at his numbers. we have the starting 5 to contend. We need a bench, our bench has nothing to do with drafting, it has everything to do with E.G. making bad moves in FA. There were player out there we could have made an effort to get that would have been a better benefit to our bench. and yet here we are. Say we kept those picks, E.G. one of the worst talent evaluators in the league is doing the drafting.

Among 4s Morris ranks 44th in rebounding rate and 50th in TS.

http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/trueShootingPct

He ranks 38th in RPM

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/6

He is far from being good.

Cherry picking advanced stats does not mean much. I am not a fave of TS% half those people don't even play half his minutes. Its not a good stat imo. Open up the game logs, watch the games. He is playing well. No stupid advanced stat can argue that.

[nate33]

I think you missed my point we have 5 good starters. All the hate morris gets, he has played well this year, just look at his numbers. we have the starting 5 to contend. We need a bench, our bench has nothing to do with drafting, it has everything to do with E.G. making bad moves in FA. There were player out there we could have made an effort to get that would have been a better benefit to our bench. and yet here we are. Say we kept those picks, E.G. one of the worst talent evaluators in the league is doing the drafting.

Among 4s Morris ranks 44th in rebounding rate and 50th in TS.

http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/trueShootingPct

He ranks 38th in RPM

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/6

He is far from being good.

In his defense his RPM has climbed about 10 spots in the past week. When he plays well we're tough to beat. He just plays well in 30% of games. I also like that he's taking a lot of threes, earlier in the season he would hesitate and dribble in.

There are 8 guys ranked ahead of him who play less than 20 minutes per game. That means they're doing most of their damage against backups. I'm comfortable in assessing that Morris is better than all 8 of those guys. So that puts Morris around 30th among PF's, which seems about right to me. He's a borderline starter or a really good sub.

Lately, he has played much better.

[nate33]

John wall is definitely a top 10 MVP candidate...
Tier 1
Westbrook
Harden
Lebron
4a Durant (but not really cuz 4b curry)
kwahi

Tier 1a
Giannas(team not in playoffs)
Cousins(team not in playoffs)
Davis(team not in playoffs)

Tier 2
It
Wall
Butler
Cp3
Derozan(but not really cuz Lowry)
Conley(but not really cuz gasol)
George

Tier 3
Kemba
Embiid
hayward
Jokic
Lillard
Towns

Better than Wall:
Lebron
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Leonard
Antetokounmpo
Lowry
Curry
C.Paul
Butler

In the same tier as Wall:
Wall
M.Gasol
Derozan
I.Thomas
K.Irving
P.George
Gobert

Worse than Wall:
Aldridge
Howard
Lowry
Conley
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Millsap
Griffin
Cousins
D.Green
K.Thompson

[Meliorus]

John wall is definitely a top 10 MVP candidate...
Tier 1
Westbrook
Harden
Lebron
4a Durant (but not really cuz 4b curry)
kwahi

Tier 1a
Giannas(team not in playoffs)
Cousins(team not in playoffs)
Davis(team not in playoffs)

Tier 2
It
Wall
Butler
Cp3
Derozan(but not really cuz Lowry)
Conley(but not really cuz gasol)
George

Tier 3
Kemba
Embiid
hayward
Jokic
Lillard
Towns

Better than Wall:
Lebron
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Leonard
Antetokounmpo
Lowry
Curry
C.Paul
Butler

In the same tier as Wall:
Wall
M.Gasol
Derozan
I.Thomas
K.Irving
P.George
Gobert

Worse than Wall:
Aldridge
Howard
Lowry
Conley
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Millsap
Griffin
Cousins
D.Green
K.Thompson

Give me Wall over Butler. Both guys are the lone star on their team, and Wall's team has a better record. The other one I could argue is playoff-choker Lowry. I like my odds if Wall is matched up with him in the playoffs.

None of the others can be argued.

[nate33]

Give me Wall over Butler. Both guys are the lone star on their team, and Wall's team has a better record. The other one I could argue is playoff-choker Lowry. I like my odds if Wall is matched up with him in the playoffs.

None of the others can be argued.

Butler's stats are considerably better though. He has a higher PER, WS/48, BPM and VORP. Basically, he does a lot of what Wall does, but does so with more efficiency because he gets to the line a ton. And, like Wall, Butler is a 2-way player who gets the job done on D as well.



To rank them equally, you really have to give Wall A LOT of credit for lifting his teammates in a manner that doesn't show in the box score. While that may well be the case, it's pretty hard to argue it with objective numbers.

[TheKingOfVa360]

John wall is definitely a top 10 MVP candidate...
Tier 1
Westbrook
Harden
Lebron
4a Durant (but not really cuz 4b curry)
kwahi

Tier 1a
Giannas(team not in playoffs)
Cousins(team not in playoffs)
Davis(team not in playoffs)

Tier 2
It
Wall
Butler
Cp3
Derozan(but not really cuz Lowry)
Conley(but not really cuz gasol)
George

Tier 3
Kemba
Embiid
hayward
Jokic
Lillard
Towns

Better than Wall:
Lebron
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Leonard
Antetokounmpo
Lowry
Curry
C.Paul
Butler

In the same tier as Wall:
Wall
M.Gasol
Derozan
I.Thomas
K.Irving
P.George
Gobert

Worse than Wall:
Aldridge
Howard
Lowry
Conley
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Millsap
Griffin
Cousins
D.Green
K.Thompson

Give me Wall over Lowry and Butler. Also Paul George should be in a lower tier. Otto Porter has been a better player than him this year.

[J-Ves]

I saw on the trade board an offer of Lou Williams for Smith + Burke + Lotto protected 2017 1st. If we could do Nicholson instead of Smith I think I might pull the trigger. We'd go with a 9 man rotation of:
Wall Sato
Beal Williams
Porter Oubre
Morris
Gortat Smith (If Mahinnmi ever comes back Smith might get pushed to backup PF or out of the rotation. Or maybe Gortat or Morris is the odd man out)

And yes I know its a short sighted move.

[nate33]

Give me Wall over Lowry and Butler. Also Paul George should be in a lower tier. Otto Porter has been a better player than him this year.

I can't put Wall over Lowry. Not this year. Lowry has better numbers and a better record. I already made my case about Butler.

I hear you regarding Paul George, and I agree that his numbers aren't exactly inspiring. But that Indy team doesn't have great talent yet they're winning as much as we do. I'm giving Paul George the credit. Also, George's crunch time numbers are insane.

[nate33]

I saw on the trade board an offer of Lou Williams for Smith + Burke + Lotto protected 2017 1st. If we could do Nicholson instead of Smith I think I might pull the trigger. We'd go with a 9 man rotation of:
Wall Sato
Beal Williams
Porter Oubre
Morris
Gortat Smith (If Mahinnmi ever comes back Smith might get pushed to backup PF or out of the rotation. Or maybe Gortat or Morris is the odd man out)

And yes I know its a short sighted move.

Extremely short sighted. Yay, we'll go all in and get to the 2nd round or maybe the ECF's.

[Meliorus]

I saw on the trade board an offer of Lou Williams for Smith + Burke + Lotto protected 2017 1st. If we could do Nicholson instead of Smith I think I might pull the trigger. We'd go with a 9 man rotation of:
Wall Sato
Beal Williams
Porter Oubre
Morris
Gortat Smith (If Mahinnmi ever comes back Smith might get pushed to backup PF or out of the rotation. Or maybe Gortat or Morris is the odd man out)

And yes I know its a short sighted move.

Extremely short sighted. Yay, we'll go all in and get to the 2nd round or maybe the ECF's.

I'm getting concerned about the number of people who think we should be moving picks for backups. This isn't the 2016 draft. This isn't the old cap. Ernie isn't even dumb enough to trade a rookie contract for a 3rd guard.

[J-Ves]

I saw on the trade board an offer of Lou Williams for Smith + Burke + Lotto protected 2017 1st. If we could do Nicholson instead of Smith I think I might pull the trigger. We'd go with a 9 man rotation of:
Wall Sato
Beal Williams
Porter Oubre
Morris
Gortat Smith (If Mahinnmi ever comes back Smith might get pushed to backup PF or out of the rotation. Or maybe Gortat or Morris is the odd man out)

And yes I know its a short sighted move.

Extremely short sighted. Yay, we'll go all in and get to the 2nd round or maybe the ECF's.

I'm getting concerned about the number of people who think we should be moving picks for backups. This isn't the 2016 draft. This isn't the old cap. Ernie isn't even dumb enough to trade a rookie contract for a 3rd guard.

Why get concerned? This is just a pointless fan forum where we make silly fantasy trades that have zero impact on anything in real life. If you truly believe EG isn't dumb enough to make a deal like that then be concern free my friend.

[gambitx777]

I'm getting concerned about the number of people who think we should be moving picks for backups. This isn't the 2016 draft. This isn't the old cap. Ernie isn't even dumb enough to trade a rookie contract for a 3rd guard.

Well here is the thing.
People here super star, or all star, and automatically think they have more value than said package. But look at where the team is. Look at where the east is. We have a top PG, a really good SG, a top 3, a serviceable starting 4, and a good starting 5. We have a great starting 5. The east is pretty weak, other than the cavs, everyone is 100 % beatable. Even the Cav's are not immortal. Like for real, the Cavs have their own issues. Right now we are not a real 7 game threat to them, unless we get lucky. But add a bench, then it gets interesting. So in this situation, spending some picks to fix the bench and dump Mahinmi/nicholson, that is almost worth it. Take your shot. Kyrie is injury prone, Lebron is getting old, Kavin same deal and not a clutch player. Like that team is the clear cut best in the east, but in a 7 game series I don't think they are as untouchable as you might think. But spending picks on Bench dude with out dumping contracts, then you get into that area of yeah maybe its not worth it. Like I don;t think you can blame the bench on us trading picks, because the same **** dude who signed these deals that made our bench what it is, is making the picks. Like Look mahinmi got hurt, that's bad luck, burke could have been better than this but that boils down to bad scouting and a risk that might not have been worth it. I liked nicholson and I was Dead wrong, bad scouting on that. Smith was over paid but hes living up to that contract,so im chill with it. Tomas need more time that we thought, but EG could have done much better than what he did. So I think Its not as cut and dry as saying Oh no don't trade the picks. He should not have spent that much money on Mahinmi, He should not have traded for burke, if you were signing tomas go get a vet, He should not have signed nicholson. Would he have made good use of these mid round picks we traded, probably not, There are a lot of busts out there from those drafts.