Political Roundtable Part XVII

[TGW]

Yeah... Im going to stick to the basketball threads, because this liberal eco chamber is useless. Trump is crushing it right now with regulation, legislation, and court appointees...
D's are like the team down by 15 with 3 minutes left that start fouling hard out of frustration... you're best to just be ignored. You'll keep talking about how Trump and Co are racist, sexist, delusional, dumb, etc...

How are you going to talk about liberal eco-chambers when you live in a Trump eco-chamber (I wouldn't even say conservative or Republican).

Trump is the most unpopular president in modern day history at this point in his presidency:

http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-approval-rating-christmas-least-popular-president-ever-757898

Just google Trump's approval ratings...it's across the board atrocious, regardless of what polling agency you use.

Now I know that you live in your own eco-chamber where every piece of information you don't like is "fake news", but the facts are clear: Trump is unpopular. Your bubble doesn't jive with reality. But keep on thinking he's "crushing it"...you're going to be a sad individual when Trump gets slaughtered in 2020.

[gtn130]

pcbothwel has his views challenged, tells everyone they're stubborn and living in an echo chamber then promptly declares he's leaving the thread and never returning. Good stuff

[stilldropin20]

A fair point that dollars on a paycheck will matter more than a theoretical tax bill discussion. However this doesn't happen in isolation. People know the rich and corporations are getting huge tax cuts. For those with jobs there is at least as mulch concern with health care costs as there is with taxes. If health care increases eat up the savings from lower taxes, will people be happy?

Trump is historically unpopular despite an economy that looks to be in pretty good shape.

He also has an inability to avoid conflict that could be very costly in 2018. If I was running against Comstock, I would be sure to incite Trump to involve himself in the race.

verbal, I think you are missing it. R's and D's can bloviate all they want when legislation is theoretical, much like what the D's have done with the tax cut... but their problem is that this will only be another issue in which the American people see the world differently than limousine-liberals and the media.
All they will hear from D's and the news is how Trump is stealing from the poor...yada, yada, yada...
But when their paychecks are bigger and better jobs become more available, they will trust their eyes...not their ears.

I saw a segment the other day where they interviewed 5 families from all different backgrounds and had a CPA review their taxes and how they would change. Not surprising, 4 of the 5 saw lower taxes and the 5th saw no change (They lived in NYC, had no kids, and made over 400k... so no surprise)
What did surprise me however was that they asked all 5 before the analysis, "How do you think this bill will affect your taxes?".
4 out of 5 said it would increase...
Think about that and extrapolate as best you can given the small sample size... Do you have any idea how fast Trump and his tax cuts popularity could increase in the next 90-120 days?
You add that with infrastructure bill and you could see a frenzy of activity and positivity surrounding the US economy.

Again, jobs and more money in peoples pockets is what he promised above all else.

This is how Plutocracy and Autocrats work in action. Trump is turning the US into Russia where a few Oligarchs pretty much control the country. The rich get even richer while the bottom 95% of the population are happy with a few scraps and a misdirected sense of pride from a nationalist agenda. You think AT&T cares about a 200 million dollars when they will make billions from the repeal of net neutrality?

Trump is doing permanent damage to the environment, dismantling American institutions, torpedoing America’s standing with allies and the rest of the world, not to mention he’s emboldening white supremacists and he’s enriching himself through the Presidency. Its a sad day if Americans are willing to sell their souls and the good the country represents for cheap.

PointGod,

Wealthy European bankers have been controlling this country on and off since it was "discovered" and "stolen" from my ancestors. And in 1913 they took full control of the USA permanently via the federal reserve act. And simultanously passed the revenue act of 1913 which began permanent income tax laws!!!!! This is when they finally "won" over the entire US government and began to control our money permanently. The entire racket was sold to congress and the american people as it was meant to stabilize the economy. So much for that.

Watch this!!!

watch this entire thing. All 3.5 hours!!! learn something today. This is NOT partisan political theater. This is a documentary done by a widely respected journalist Bill Self. He made this at risk to his own life.

After watching this, then let's talk about which oligarchs own what. This documentary is the beginning for me. this is where you start to unearth the truth. Some of it is common knowledge at the beginning. like what the federal reserve is today. But to fully understand it you must go back to the beginning of banking.

Everyone. Please. Watch and learn something. get out of the dark!!

Watch on YouTube

[stilldropin20]

pcbothwel has his views challenged, tells everyone they're stubborn and living in an echo chamber then promptly declares he's leaving the thread and never returning. Good stuff

GTN and pointgod and wizardspride and a few other,

Why do you guys come on so damn hard? You do realize that you dont "win" people over like that right? PCbothwel is now more determined to vote for trump. I guarantee it! Which is fine by me. He is doing the right thing in supporting trump.

but the way you guys come on so hard just chases people away from discussion. Why do you guys do this. You came on so annoyingly strong at me(with absolute nonesense I might add) that i considered to stop posting many times. Wondering if this is 'worth" it. Which makes Pcbothwel correct. You guys seem to just want an echo chamber to reaffirm your own beliefs.

He's clearly been reading the thread. And he's clearly informed. Why are you so afraid of exchanging information???? That you want to drown him out??? Why not just exchange dialogue??? (and clearly you do the same thing to me but I'm hip to your clown games of disinformation) If you guys are right and on the right side of these issues the proof or truth shall be brought to light eventually, correct?

So why dont we exchange information genuinely and with open minds?

[pcbothwel]

pcbothwel has his views challenged, tells everyone they're stubborn and living in an echo chamber then promptly declares he's leaving the thread and never returning. Good stuff

Wrong, I gave you and others a chance to give feedback on a specific scenario... I think verbal8 was the only one who got the memo I guess.

People are going to be getting more money in their paychecks, GDP is going to be over 3% and maybe close to 4%. Between growth, tax cuts, infrastructure and repatriation you are going to see trillions of dollars going into the economy...
I asked how do D's truly expect to combat that in 2018... to which I really got no answer.
Russia is not a real answer. Its been over a year and nothing is really coming clear except for a corrupt Clinton/DNC/FBI/DOJ. For arguments sake, i said lets call it a wash.

Verbal gave you Exhibit A of one way to answer this:

Infrastructure could be a game changer. If executed properly it really could put the country on a better path and increase the popularity of incumbents.

However a similar opportunity was there with tax reform and the Republicans blew it. I think if something gets passed it will be focused on privatization and passed soley with Republican votes.

i dont care how popular the president/tax cuts are NOW, I care about Oct 2018 / 2020.

They will have negligible amount of additional income every month that will have no impact on the economy. I see you're carrying water for Daddy, though....
You missed the point. The point is that the money doesn't make a difference for 99.9% of folks receiving tax cuts. It's an arbitrary amount that won't change spending habits. This tax cut will not grow the economy or create jobs.

The problem is that you live in a fantasy land and disagree with fact. Are you really going to argue that a middle class family with children wont save money? Thats laughable. You can point out the affect on the deficit, but saying the middle class wont save money is just stupid.
The economy IS growing, and will continue to do so (for sure in the near term). unemployment continues to drop, especially in the minority communities.
But you want to be a smart ass with the "Daddy" jokes instead of giving any framework/guidance on how D's dont get slaughtered in the Fall.. LOL. Good luck with that.

BTW. He's President Daddy to you for the next 7 years... so show a little respect.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

dont be tryin to suck up to my frieeeenz so as to pursued them to your unscrupulous cause.

and I'll overlook the slight. this time.

STD. What are you doing for Christmas today?

spent the day with family. wonderful christmas. Girlfriends side so no drama! lol. thank you for asking. I hope you had a wonderful day as well.

Glad to hear it. I had a nice, quiet day. Built a trampoline for the kiddos, ate too much, saw a movie.

[DCZards]

Infrastructure could be a game changer. If executed properly it really could put the country on a better path and increase the popularity of incumbents.

However a similar opportunity was there with tax reform and the Republicans blew it. I think if something gets passed it will be focused on privatization and passed soley with Republican votes.

Obama and the Dems pushed hard to get the Republican Congress to take up infrastructure legislation. But the obstructionist Repubs didn't want to do anything that might make #44 look good. It will be interesting to see if the Dems in Congress get behind #45's infrastructure bill.

[pcbothwel]

Infrastructure could be a game changer. If executed properly it really could put the country on a better path and increase the popularity of incumbents.

However a similar opportunity was there with tax reform and the Republicans blew it. I think if something gets passed it will be focused on privatization and passed soley with Republican votes.

Obama and the Dems pushed hard to get the Republican Congress to take up infrastructure legislation. But the obstructionist Repubs didn't want to do anything that might make #44 look good. It will be interesting to see if the Dems in Congress get behind #45's infrastructure bill.

Let be fair. Obama had the stimulus so its not like 44 didnt get any opportunity. Also, all infrastructure bills arent created equal. I think two things make a big different with any bill.
1) Gas tax - Yes, we should increase the gas tax and it helps pay for the bill. With our strong dollar, I see no reason not to increase.
2) Private / public partnerships: Will keep cost lower and deadlines met while also limiting public risk financially

Politically, Ill be real interested with how the votes shake out.
R Pros: legislative victory, more jobs, appear "Patriotic"/Rebuilding America
R Cons: Increase to deficit / appear hypocritical

D Pros: Appear non-partisan, more jobs, appear "Patriotic"/Rebuilding America
D Cons: Helps Trump / R's get more accomplished'

I would assume that some D's hop on board as a couple deficit hawks on R's vote no... but who knows

[gtn130]

People are going to be getting more money in their paychecks, GDP is going to be over 3% and maybe close to 4%. Between growth, tax cuts, infrastructure and repatriation you are going to see trillions of dollars going into the economy...
I asked how do D's truly expect to combat that in 2018... to which I really got no answer.

Nobody is dying to answer this question because it's not a realistic possibility nor is it a particularly interesting question. You're asking me how the Democrats would fair in a scenario in which Trump is wildly successful and popular...they would lose by a lot, as anyone in that scenario would...

Russia is not a real answer. Its been over a year and nothing is really coming clear except for a corrupt Clinton/DNC/FBI/DOJ. For arguments sake, i said lets call it a wash.

This is true only if you watch Fox News all day. There have been four indictments so far, and Mike Flynn and George Papadopoulos pleaded guilty. Not sure how you can square that with what you're saying.

The problem is that you live in a fantasy land and disagree with fact. Are you really going to argue that a middle class family with children wont save money? Thats laughable. You can point out the affect on the deficit, but saying the middle class wont save money is just stupid.

Lol. Why do you think I'm saying middle class families won't save money? My argument has been that they'll save a negligible amount *at first* and it won't stimulate the economy or lead to growth.

But you want to be a smart ass with the "Daddy" jokes instead of giving any framework/guidance on how D's dont get slaughtered in the Fall.. LOL. Good luck with that.

Buddy, Democrats just won in Alabama. They soul crushed the GOP in Virginia before that. All polling done by 538 indicates there will be a Democratic wave in 2018 in which Democrats pick up double digit seats in the house. Things can change between now and Nov 2018, but if the elections happened today, the GOP would incontrovertibly be hemorrhaging seats.

BTW. He's President Daddy to you for the next 7 years... so show a little respect.

Lol

[stilldropin20]

Infrastructure could be a game changer. If executed properly it really could put the country on a better path and increase the popularity of incumbents.

However a similar opportunity was there with tax reform and the Republicans blew it. I think if something gets passed it will be focused on privatization and passed soley with Republican votes.

Obama and the Dems pushed hard to get the Republican Congress to take up infrastructure legislation. But the obstructionist Repubs didn't want to do anything that might make #44 look good. It will be interesting to see if the Dems in Congress get behind #45's infrastructure bill.

they wont. i guarantee you they give him a **** infrastructure bill. he will veto it. and they will threaten him with impeachment.

and thats if they get control of the house and senate. which they wont...i dont think. Like which seats are they going to get? and be realistic. They should have never even had a shot at Alabama if it wasn't for those 2 stubborn idiots Bannon and Moore. even then it came down to about 10,000 votes. and all the D's had to campaign on???? accusations of misconduct!!! That's it!!! No actual platform!! no ideas!!

D's have not had a single idea since Obama spent 2 years lying to us about changing "grid." Electric cars everywhere! Solar panels everywhere!! lol. so much for that. Modern energy for everyone!! So much for that.

R's are realizing that they need to fully vet their candidates. If they do so, they will keep their seats. as D's have no ideas. At. All.

[cammac]

To SD20's question
PA17 at March 13th will be a test of Trumps popularity it pits Republican Rick Sanconne who says he was Trump before Trump and Colon Lamb for the Democrats. This is a district that voted by 20% for Trump so should be a cakewalk.
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/23/republicans-brace-for-competitive-pennsylvania-house-race-316206

[Pointgod]

Yeah... Im going to stick to the basketball threads, because this liberal eco chamber is useless. Trump is crushing it right now with regulation, legislation, and court appointees...
D's are like the team down by 15 with 3 minutes left that start fouling hard out of frustration... you're best to just be ignored. You'll keep talking about how Trump and Co are racist, sexist, delusional, dumb, etc...

This type of thinking is why it’s difficult for you to defend your point of view. You view this as a game where you only care about what’s good for your team while people in the “liberal echo chamber” care about what helps the greater good of the country.

I’m curious to know how he’s killing it legislatively.

I make a basketball analogy because... you know... this is A BASKETBALL BOARD.
But you go full liberal with the ... "You're a heartless right wing deplorable and Im the real considerate liberal. #notmypresident #dumptrump"

legislation: The tax bill alone in the 1st year is a win. Out of immigration, SS/Medicare, Welfare, and infrastructure I think he gets 3 out of 4 done in the next two years. Probably 2 in 2018...
That said, what he has done for regulation and the overall administrative state has been great as has his appointments for Court of Appeals

Okay so you used a basketball analogy but I’ve seen the same tribal mentality from other right wing posters who only care about their team getting wins and triggering liberals. It’s interesting I’m the analogy you think Trump is way in the lead despite record disapproval ratings.

So let’s talk about legislation. You fail to acknowledge the massive legislature failure of trying to repeal Obamacare without any replacement. It was so wildly unpopular and clearly showed that Trump is no leader. So with less than a month left the Republicans rush through another widely unpopular piece of legislation without debate or non partisan process. Most of the people who voted on it didn’t even read it. They’ve also admitted as much that it was to please their donors. If you consider ramming through a wildly unpopular piece of legislation in a month a win then sure.

What specific regulations are you happy that Trump dismantled?

And what about the administrative state are you happy with?

[Pointgod]

pcbothwel has his views challenged, tells everyone they're stubborn and living in an echo chamber then promptly declares he's leaving the thread and never returning. Good stuff

GTN and pointgod and wizardspride and a few other,

Why do you guys come on so damn hard? You do realize that you dont "win" people over like that right? PCbothwel is now more determined to vote for trump. I guarantee it! Which is fine by me. He is doing the right thing in supporting trump.

but the way you guys come on so hard just chases people away from discussion. Why do you guys do this. You came on so annoyingly strong at me(with absolute nonesense I might add) that i considered to stop posting many times. Wondering if this is 'worth" it. Which makes Pcbothwel correct. You guys seem to just want an echo chamber to reaffirm your own beliefs.

He's clearly been reading the thread. And he's clearly informed. Why are you so afraid of exchanging information???? That you want to drown him out??? Why not just exchange dialogue??? (and clearly you do the same thing to me but I'm hip to your clown games of disinformation) If you guys are right and on the right side of these issues the proof or truth shall be brought to light eventually, correct?

So why dont we exchange information genuinely and with open minds?

If you come into this thread you better come to play. There are a lot of sharp and knowledgeable people in this thread so spitting typical right wing talking points or propaganda instead of credible facts you will get called out on it. There’s a difference between a general exchange of ideas and blind cheer leading. If you can’t first agree on simple facts and truth then it will be hard to be taken seriously.

[Pointgod]

Infrastructure could be a game changer. If executed properly it really could put the country on a better path and increase the popularity of incumbents.

However a similar opportunity was there with tax reform and the Republicans blew it. I think if something gets passed it will be focused on privatization and passed soley with Republican votes.

Obama and the Dems pushed hard to get the Republican Congress to take up infrastructure legislation. But the obstructionist Repubs didn't want to do anything that might make #44 look good. It will be interesting to see if the Dems in Congress get behind #45's infrastructure bill.

The Democrats should have a long memory about how the Republicans obstructed Obama. The question is what do Democratic voters want? I think Dem voters want Democrats to stand for something. If an infrastructure bill fails it will be because Republicans can’t get their **** together. Why hand them an easy win? If anything wait to see if Dems can gain control of congress or the Senate and work Trump’s ego to rubber stamp everything.

[stilldropin20]

To SD20's question
PA17 at March 13th will be a test of Trumps popularity it pits Republican Rick Sanconne who says he was Trump before Trump and Colon Lamb for the Democrats. This is a district that voted by 20% for Trump so should be a cakewalk.
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/23/republicans-brace-for-competitive-pennsylvania-house-race-316206

2020 will come down to Florida, Penn., Wisconsin, South Carolina, and Ohio. I dont think trump is going to lose Florida, Ohio, and Wisconsin or south carolina. And I think he won over Penn for good as well.

even if he gives back Minnesota(unlikely) and Michigan(likely) it wont matter. He still gets 270.

No other states will change from red to blue.

Trump and R's now have about 8-9 months right now to kick but and fulfill his MAGA agenda. Immigration reform(including wall), Entitlement reform(spending). And in september/october sign the infrastructure deal (perhaps with some D votes) and they will remain in office in 2018-2020.



Assuming all that happens he can then really begin to negotiate. And by that I mean, take on costs!!. He can take on big pharma. take on corporate medicine. in 2019 and early 2020. If he succeeds in lowering costs there like he has in everything else he "took on." And I suspect he will. He may even create a surplus and pay off some debt(something I am quite certain he is dying to accomplish).

He would then have 4 years to really create waves and get radical. I'd like to see him take on the national debt. Renegotiate the entire debt. And pay it off with government notes instead of bonds and/or re-negotiate our interest rates with the federal reserve.

and then pass amendments to the constitution with 2 major goals in mind:
1. Sustainable government for all future administrations.
2. true campaign finance reform where big corporate and personal interests are finally rooted out of our body politic.

He does all that and he goes down as GOAT.

[Pointgod]

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/11/usda-food-stamps-school-lunch-trump-administration/amp?__twitter_impression=true

[stilldropin20]

pcbothwel has his views challenged, tells everyone they're stubborn and living in an echo chamber then promptly declares he's leaving the thread and never returning. Good stuff

GTN and pointgod and wizardspride and a few other,

Why do you guys come on so damn hard? You do realize that you dont "win" people over like that right? PCbothwel is now more determined to vote for trump. I guarantee it! Which is fine by me. He is doing the right thing in supporting trump.

but the way you guys come on so hard just chases people away from discussion. Why do you guys do this. You came on so annoyingly strong at me(with absolute nonesense I might add) that i considered to stop posting many times. Wondering if this is 'worth" it. Which makes Pcbothwel correct. You guys seem to just want an echo chamber to reaffirm your own beliefs.

He's clearly been reading the thread. And he's clearly informed. Why are you so afraid of exchanging information???? That you want to drown him out??? Why not just exchange dialogue??? (and clearly you do the same thing to me but I'm hip to your clown games of disinformation) If you guys are right and on the right side of these issues the proof or truth shall be brought to light eventually, correct?

So why dont we exchange information genuinely and with open minds?

If you come into this thread you better come to play. There are a lot of sharp and knowledgeable people in this thread so spitting typical right wing talking points or propaganda instead of credible facts you will get called out on it. There’s a difference between a general exchange of ideas and blind cheer leading. If you can’t first agree on simple facts and truth then it will be hard to be taken seriously.

Pot, meet kettle.

seriously. Your set of "facts" are some of the most disillusioned set of ideas I've ever read in this thread. You are a hard line extremely far left liberal. Maybe it is you that it is hard to take seriously? just maybe?

[Pointgod]

Watch on YouTube

[Wizardspride]

pcbothwel has his views challenged, tells everyone they're stubborn and living in an echo chamber then promptly declares he's leaving the thread and never returning. Good stuff

GTN and pointgod and wizardspride and a few other,

Why do you guys come on so damn hard? You do realize that you dont "win" people over like that right? PCbothwel is now more determined to vote for trump. I guarantee it! Which is fine by me. He is doing the right thing in supporting trump.

but the way you guys come on so hard just chases people away from discussion. Why do you guys do this. You came on so annoyingly strong at me(with absolute nonesense I might add) that i considered to stop posting many times. Wondering if this is 'worth" it. Which makes Pcbothwel correct. You guys seem to just want an echo chamber to reaffirm your own beliefs.

He's clearly been reading the thread. And he's clearly informed. Why are you so afraid of exchanging information???? That you want to drown him out??? Why not just exchange dialogue??? (and clearly you do the same thing to me but I'm hip to your clown games of disinformation) If you guys are right and on the right side of these issues the proof or truth shall be brought to light eventually, correct?

So why dont we exchange information genuinely and with open minds?

I can only speak for myself but I'm not trying to win him (or you) over.

Don't really care.

I'm a liberal democrat. You guys are conservative/moderate(?)republicans.

We're probably not going to agree on many things..and that's fine.

[Zonkerbl]

Guys don’t feed the troll you know better. Let the trumpites think they’ve won already and can go back to snorting meth while we take the country back in 2018 and throw trump and all his flunkies in jail where they belong. 2018 elections are going to be a bloodbath.