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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#61 » by Error Afflalo » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:49 pm

Dark Faze wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Will anyone even want to sign Cousins? What are the chances he’s ever an above average player again?


Have a friend who is a Pels season ticket holder who is fairly sure he's getting a max from them that's incentive laden.


I'm not even sure it'll be incentive-laden. As Nate said, his game isn't really predicated on athleticism, so there's a decent chance he'll be close to the same player he was. More importantly:

a) He's tight with Davis. Upsetting their franchise player a couple years before he can walk has disaster written all over it. If they're willing to let Boogie walk, they might as well start looking to move AD this summer while his value is at an all-time high.

b) They have no way of replacing him via free agency if he walks.

I'd be surprised if he didn't end up getting a full max or something very close to it.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#62 » by nate33 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:06 pm

Ruzious wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Avery Bradley is exactly what we need.

Would you guys do Gortat and a 1st round pick for Stanley Johnson and Avery Bradley?

Wall Sato
Beal Bradley
Oubre Johnson
Porter Scott
Mahinmi Morris

I love Bradley, but he'd be a half year rental and can't play center. He's going to want a long-term contract at more than double the rate he's currently getting, and he might get it... from someone else.

Right. It would be a great trade if both guys weren't soon going to get large raises in free agency. But since they are, the deal really amounts to sacrificing a 1st round pick to dump the final year of Gortat's contract.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#63 » by NatP4 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:15 pm

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Avery Bradley is exactly what we need.

Would you guys do Gortat and a 1st round pick for Stanley Johnson and Avery Bradley?

Wall Sato
Beal Bradley
Oubre Johnson
Porter Scott
Mahinmi Morris

I love Bradley, but he'd be a half year rental and can't play center. He's going to want a long-term contract at more than double the rate he's currently getting, and he might get it... from someone else.

Right. It would be a great trade if both guys weren't soon going to get large raises in free agency. But since they are, the deal really amounts to sacrificing a 1st round pick to dump the final year of Gortat's contract.


maybe Mahinmi dump instead? something like the Bojan/Nicholson trade but actually getting a useful rental player?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#64 » by payitforward » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:44 pm

NatP4 wrote:Wonder how much value we would have to send back to get Drummond and Bradley?

Forget Bradley. He is expiring; we wouldn't be able to keep him.

As to Drummond: for starters, he has a max contract, so we'd have to send at least one of Wall/Beal/Porter.

But... this idea -- & any others like it -- are pointless, b/c they don't recognize our actual situation or any other reality.

Season after next we will be presented w/ an almost impossible roster situation, even assuming we've rid ourselves of Mahinmi. We will have over $92m guaranteed to 3 players, yet we will also have to have extended Oubre (unless we are dumb enough to have allowed him to become an unrestricted FA at season's end) & Satoransky (unless we'd like to utterly waste him as an asset).

Oubre/Sato combined will not cost less than $22m (probably more), with most of it going to Oubre of course. That's $114m for 5 players. Maybe $7m under the tax. Needing 9 more players for a minimum roster.

But, lets be optimistic, & assume that we have our 2018 & 2019 picks on the roster too. In which case, we will be, at best, @ $3m under the tax at best. & 7 players short of a minimum roster.

How do you imagine being able to solve that problem, Nat?

The only imaginable start on solving it would be to trade one of Wall/Beal/Porter between now & then, right? While taking back short term salaries that will be gone when the above fun starts.

But, a max player is actually not a great trade asset, b/c economics makes it hard to trade him for anything but another max player. Obviously, that wouldn't help us.

That's why, please, you need to stop thinking about Andre Drummond. It's also why you need to stop proposing trades that cost us a draft pick. They don't help.

What would help would be to think of trades that get rid of Mahinmi w/o costing us a pick or taking on salary beyond next year, b/c if you add Mahinmi's $15.45m salary in 2019-20 to the above picture you can certainly kiss Oubre goodbye!
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#65 » by nate33 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:49 pm

NatP4 wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:I love Bradley, but he'd be a half year rental and can't play center. He's going to want a long-term contract at more than double the rate he's currently getting, and he might get it... from someone else.

Right. It would be a great trade if both guys weren't soon going to get large raises in free agency. But since they are, the deal really amounts to sacrificing a 1st round pick to dump the final year of Gortat's contract.


maybe Mahinmi dump instead? something like the Bojan/Nicholson trade but actually getting a useful rental player?

Yes. I would absolutely do that with Mahinmi in place of Gortat. I just don't think Detroit would.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#66 » by payitforward » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:51 pm

NatP4 wrote:maybe Mahinmi dump instead? something like the Bojan/Nicholson trade but actually getting a useful rental player?

Think of it this way, Nat: any trade that gives away a R1 pick makes it less likely that we can keep Oubre.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#67 » by pcbothwel » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:53 pm

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Avery Bradley is exactly what we need.

Would you guys do Gortat and a 1st round pick for Stanley Johnson and Avery Bradley?

Wall Sato
Beal Bradley
Oubre Johnson
Porter Scott
Mahinmi Morris

I love Bradley, but he'd be a half year rental and can't play center. He's going to want a long-term contract at more than double the rate he's currently getting, and he might get it... from someone else.

Right. It would be a great trade if both guys weren't soon going to get large raises in free agency. But since they are, the deal really amounts to sacrificing a 1st round pick to dump the final year of Gortat's contract.


Someone needs to explain the fascination with Avery Bradley. I get he is a pesky defender, but what else has he done.
RPM has hated the guy for years and it seems rightfully so. He looked decent with Brad Stevens, but so does everyone.

He was a bad basketball player the first 5 years of his career, and then looked decent for 2. He is now regressed.
He has a TS of 48%, More Turnovers than assist (TERRIBLE for a guard), a BPM of -4.1, RPM of -2.82 (Just below our own Jodie Meeks), and a ORtg/DRtg of 92/110... what in the Sam Hell is happening?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#68 » by payitforward » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:01 pm

pcbothwel wrote:Someone needs to explain the fascination with Avery Bradley. ...He was a bad basketball player the first 5 years of his career, and then looked decent for 2. He is now regressed. ... what in the Sam Hell is happening?

I agree entirely. He is colossally over-rated. Wasn't everyone saying how much Boston would miss him...?

Hmmm, now I'm afraid Ernie will trade for him! After all, he is "an established veteran," etc.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#69 » by NatP4 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:14 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:I love Bradley, but he'd be a half year rental and can't play center. He's going to want a long-term contract at more than double the rate he's currently getting, and he might get it... from someone else.

Right. It would be a great trade if both guys weren't soon going to get large raises in free agency. But since they are, the deal really amounts to sacrificing a 1st round pick to dump the final year of Gortat's contract.


Someone needs to explain the fascination with Avery Bradley. I get he is a pesky defender, but what else has he done.
RPM has hated the guy for years and it seems rightfully so. He looked decent with Brad Stevens, but so does everyone.

He was a bad basketball player the first 5 years of his career, and then looked decent for 2. He is now regressed.
He has a TS of 48%, More Turnovers than assist (TERRIBLE for a guard), a BPM of -4.1, RPM of -2.82 (Just below our own Jodie Meeks), and a ORtg/DRtg of 92/110... what in the Sam Hell is happening?



I actually did not know this about him
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#70 » by nate33 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:16 pm

I think the best trade would could make would be to package Scott Brooks and a future 1st for Brad Stevens.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#71 » by 80sballboy » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:19 pm

Always been a Bradley fan as a defender. Thought he could be a poor man's Joe Dumars. The rest of his game comes from the fact he still thinks he's a point guard or combo guard. He's basically an undersized two and would be a very good third guard. I would have no problem acquiring him for something less than a first-round pick. In Boston, he played with IT so he was a combo guard there. In Detroit, he's played with Reggie Jackson (scorer) and Ish Smith (backup point guard now starting the last 2 months with Jackson out). He's not as bad as the stats make him out to be.

Again, if you put him with Sato in the second unit, you'd get a more efficient player and wouldn't have to overplay Beal. But I'm sure Detroit tries to get a first for him so I would say no deal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#72 » by NatP4 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:25 pm

payitforward wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Wonder how much value we would have to send back to get Drummond and Bradley?

Forget Bradley. He is expiring; we wouldn't be able to keep him.

As to Drummond: for starters, he has a max contract, so we'd have to send at least one of Wall/Beal/Porter.

But... this idea -- & any others like it -- are pointless, b/c they don't recognize our actual situation or any other reality.

Season after next we will be presented w/ an almost impossible roster situation, even assuming we've rid ourselves of Mahinmi. We will have over $92m guaranteed to 3 players, yet we will also have to have extended Oubre (unless we are dumb enough to have allowed him to become an unrestricted FA at season's end) & Satoransky (unless we'd like to utterly waste him as an asset).

Oubre/Sato combined will not cost less than $22m (probably more), with most of it going to Oubre of course. That's $114m for 5 players. Maybe $7m under the tax. Needing 9 more players for a minimum roster.

But, lets be optimistic, & assume that we have our 2018 & 2019 picks on the roster too. In which case, we will be, at best, @ $3m under the tax at best. & 7 players short of a minimum roster.

How do you imagine being able to solve that problem, Nat?

The only imaginable start on solving it would be to trade one of Wall/Beal/Porter between now & then, right? While taking back short term salaries that will be gone when the above fun starts.

But, a max player is actually not a great trade asset, b/c economics makes it hard to trade him for anything but another max player. Obviously, that wouldn't help us.

That's why, please, you need to stop thinking about Andre Drummond. It's also why you need to stop proposing trades that cost us a draft pick. They don't help.

What would help would be to think of trades that get rid of Mahinmi w/o costing us a pick or taking on salary beyond next year, b/c if you add Mahinmi's $15.45m salary in 2019-20 to the above picture you can certainly kiss Oubre goodbye!


I’m just thinking out loud PIF, I’ve said numerous times that the best option clearly is to trade John Wall instead of paying him 37-42 million. The only wizards trade rumor we have seen is them having interest in Deandre Jordan, which hints that they are going to be “buyers” at the deadline

In reality, if you have 3 max players(one Supermax) and are paying the lux tax, you should be better than this team is. I’ve said over and over that I would either go all in for these next two seasons, or trade Wall now.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#73 » by NatP4 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:26 pm

nate33 wrote:I think the best trade would could make would be to package Scott Brooks and a future 1st for Brad Stevens.


If you added Wall to that and brought Kyrie back, all our problems would be instantly fixed and we would be the best team in the NBA.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#74 » by truwizfan4evr » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:34 pm

NatP4 wrote:
nate33 wrote:I think the best trade would could make would be to package Scott Brooks and a future 1st for Brad Stevens.


If you added Wall to that and brought Kyrie back, all our problems would be instantly fixed and we would be the best team in the NBA.

I can't stand irving. He's a better shooter then wall but that's all about it.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#75 » by NatP4 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:47 pm

truwizfan4evr wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
nate33 wrote:I think the best trade would could make would be to package Scott Brooks and a future 1st for Brad Stevens.


If you added Wall to that and brought Kyrie back, all our problems would be instantly fixed and we would be the best team in the NBA.

I can't stand irving. He's a better shooter then wall but that's all about it.



Ehh, 25/game on .600 TS is insane for a point guard. The new NBA is about scoring guards that can attack switches and play on and off ball. Down the stretch of games, Kyrie is a huge weapon. Essentially a 50/40/90 point guard that can get his shot every single possession. Also averages a full turnover less per game than Wall.

What is the one thing Wall does better than Kyrie? Playmaking, what else?? New nba is about efficiency and 3pt shooting, being able to score in isolation. If Wall was a great defender, different story, but he now ranks 41st in drpm(one spot above Tim Frazier) for point guards, after ranking 58th after last season.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#76 » by nuposse04 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:17 pm

Not that is an absolute descriptor, but Avery's WS/48 is hysterically bad. Like its kind of amazing for a rotation player with 30 mins a game to be at his level. :lol:

I fully expect grunfeld to do meeks+smith+1st for him... if it was a 2nd it'd be far more tolerable.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#77 » by nuposse04 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:27 pm

I'm not sure we have the assets to do it, but I'd like either ed davis or Aminu on the team. More so Aminu since he is another wing defender who can hit the 3. POR has an odd roster so I'm not sure what they exactly need. Maybe they'd do a Leonar/Ian swap... I don't know.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#78 » by 80sballboy » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:37 pm

nuposse04 wrote:Not that is an absolute descriptor, but Avery's WS/48 is hysterically bad. Like its kind of amazing for a rotation player with 30 mins a game to be at his level. :lol:

I fully expect grunfeld to do meeks+smith+1st for him... if it was a 2nd it'd be far more tolerable.


Even he's not that dumb though those players are throw-ins, but I know his metric stats have been horrible since leaving Boston.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#79 » by 80sballboy » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:40 pm

nuposse04 wrote:I'm not sure we have the assets to do it, but I'd like either ed davis or Aminu on the team. More so Aminu since he is another wing defender who can hit the 3. POR has an odd roster so I'm not sure what they exactly need. Maybe they'd do a Leonar/Ian swap... I don't know.


Nah, those guys are too athletic for our frontcourt. We need more plodders. :D
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#80 » by 80sballboy » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:43 pm

NatP4 wrote:
truwizfan4evr wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
If you added Wall to that and brought Kyrie back, all our problems would be instantly fixed and we would be the best team in the NBA.

I can't stand irving. He's a better shooter then wall but that's all about it.



Ehh, 25/game on .600 TS is insane for a point guard. The new NBA is about scoring guards that can attack switches and play on and off ball. Down the stretch of games, Kyrie is a huge weapon. Essentially a 50/40/90 point guard that can get his shot every single possession. Also averages a full turnover less per game than Wall.

What is the one thing Wall does better than Kyrie? Playmaking, what else?? New nba is about efficiency and 3pt shooting, being able to score in isolation. If Wall was a great defender, different story, but he now ranks 41st in drpm(one spot above Tim Frazier) for point guards, after ranking 58th after last season.


Irving is a great closer. Great scorer. Terrible defender. Having Brown, Smart (when healthy) and other good defenders help. Curry put up 49 on him. Maybe John's knee issues are preventing him from being at least an average defender. Irving is just plain bad.

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