Political Roundtable Part XVIII

[Pointgod]

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What as the real point of the "Release the Memo" propaganda campaign, assisted by Russian bots? I posit the following:

1. Solidify support of "The base", go offense ahead of Mueller's next move
2. Create an atmosphere in-which there is a ground-swell of support to fire Rosenstein
3. Continue the public Gaslighting of the public, making them believe that all of this is about a plot to get Trump

Yeah it’s pretty transparent but it seems to have backfired against the Trump camp. The problem is that all these guys involved are so used to being in their right wing bubble that they don’t realize the non crazy public at large can see the memo is deeply misleading. People that watch Fox News, read Breitbart and Infowars might start foaming at the mouth with unsubstantiated claims but the rest of the rational world can use critical thinking and sources their news from various credible sources.

[verbal8]

Donald Trump has thick skin

So, you guys, if any of this upsets you, it's really your own fault...

If Trump has thick skin there should be lots of examples of times he was insulted or treated unfairly and had a very restrained response. I can’t think of any.
If he was the target vs a perpetrator of the birther BS he would be losing his mind(well even more than currently).
Trump complained about an election that he won. How whiny and petty do you have to be to do that.

[verbal8]

It is interesting watching this all play out. Personally, I am going to wait until 4 years after the next administration to decide what actually happens. It usually takes that long for the real story to surface. But I do have a bit of advice for the Democratic Party arguing with Trump:

“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

― Mark Twain

I think this has a few practical applications.

The Democrats need to focus on voter registration and turn out. They should but a full-court press on voter suppression methods.

The Democrats should run on improving access to health care. The system needs drastic improvement, but simply removing Republican roll-backs/obstruction of progress is enough to run on. Incumbents should highlight CHIP. Challengers should point out the Republicans holding it hostage.

Some plan to expand access to affordable higher education should be part of the platform. It doesn’t have to be as extreme as Bernie. Any plan is better than anything the country will get from Republicans.

Democrats should propose more vs less progressive taxes. If some of the deductions start getting phased out, it will make things fairer and simple.

I hope for the good of those impacted directly and for the country as a whole that DACA is resolved. However if it isn’t the adds pretty much write themselves. The Polish doctor story will resonate even with those typically less sympathetic to immigrants.

[Wizardspride]

Donald Trump has thick skin

So, you guys, if any of this upsets you, it's really your own fault...

If Trump has thick skin there should be lots of examples of times he was insulted or treated unfairly and had a very restrained response. I can’t think of any.
If he was the target vs a perpetrator of the birther BS he would be losing his mind(well even more than currently).
Trump complained about an election that he won. How whiny and petty do you have to be to do that.

Don't get me started on that.

[closg00]

Donald Trump has thick skin

The exact opposite is true, Trump is a narcissistic man-child who lashes-out at all perceived or imagined slights, he is very thin-skinned in-fact.

[closg00]

Nunes Memo Drops and Flops
The long-awaited memo compiled by Republican congressman Devin Nunes failed to live up to the hype.

https://www.snopes.com/2018/02/02/nunes-memo-drops-flops

[dckingsfan]

It is interesting watching this all play out. Personally, I am going to wait until 4 years after the next administration to decide what actually happens. It usually takes that long for the real story to surface. But I do have a bit of advice for the Democratic Party arguing with Trump:

“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

― Mark Twain

I think this has a few practical applications.

The Democrats need to focus on voter registration and turn out. They should but a full-court press on voter suppression methods.

The Democrats should run on improving access to health care. The system needs drastic improvement, but simply removing Republican roll-backs/obstruction of progress is enough to run on. Incumbents should highlight CHIP. Challengers should point out the Republicans holding it hostage.

Some plan to expand access to affordable higher education should be part of the platform. It doesn’t have to be as extreme as Bernie. Any plan is better than anything the country will get from Republicans.

Democrats should propose more vs less progressive taxes. If some of the deductions start getting phased out, it will make things fairer and simple.

I hope for the good of those impacted directly and for the country as a whole that DACA is resolved. However if it isn’t the adds pretty much write themselves. The Polish doctor story will resonate even with those typically less sympathetic to immigrants.

Bold - violent agreement. Really for the mid-terms they can just run on Trump and they will do quite well.

I guess they could run on higher education - but that is really a state level issue. And healthcare is an absolute mess - it is a third-rail issue to be left alone during the mid-terms.

You have to worry about how you position yourself as a candidate as it relates to DACA and where you are running. You don't want to be pigeon-holed that you are willing to shut down the government to make it happen. You have to come out with a fair and reasonable approach.

Back to just run on being the better party to govern should do it. For the 2020 election - there will have to be more meat.

[Pointgod]

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[cammac]

The Democratic Party needs to be a Party of realism and outreach.
Both Democrats & Republicans have become fiscally irresponsible and have used gimmicks to try and seduce the populous with giveaways and lower taxes. I believe that a majority of American voters realize they are being bribed and then shook down. You need to realize that the Republican administrations either directly or indirectly causing a economic collapse because of the lack of regulations from Bush 2.
The latest Republican tax fiasco is already showing signs of a boondoggle which will add significantly to the deficit while enriching the top 10%. I agree that entitlements are fiscally expensive but can be properly managed and that a universal style healthcare system can be fiscally responsible and provide improved impact and coverage. The social security system must be protected and become actuarial sound. The system should be allowed to invest the funds in the market. The reality is the USA is at a tipping point in that the birthrate is not replacing the current population and without young workers coming into the economy entitlements become increasingly expensive.
The only resolution to this is to fix the current immigration policy including DACA and the other 9 million illegal workers in the USA. Obviously this meet only the status quo and the need of a new immigration policy is needed to bring at least 1.5 + immigrants to the USA every year. The USA only needs to look at Canada to set a immigration policy that works and helps the economy.
The Democrats need to register more currently disenfranchised people across the board and develop a program to turnout those voters. It is less expensive to do that than costly advertisement. I believe that the Democrats need to be more nationalist in giving a dream to people and a vision of the future but with the costs involved.
This is a very shoestring analysis but I think a revitalized Democratic Party could exert power long enough to make credible changes.

[cammac]

Below are the comments of Charles Pierce of Esquire about the Nunes Memo.

I grew up with the Watergate tapes. I grew up with the revelations of the Pike and the Church committees. (Revelations, I might add, that produced the FISA process and the congressional intelligence procedures that Nunes turned into dog food Friday.) I grew up with George Schultz’s diaries that showed that everyone in the upper reaches of the Reagan administration was involved in the crimes of Iran-Contra. I watched every second of the several inquiries into the Whitewater land deal, which is how I know what a crock that was, but at least there was some phony substance to those phony charges. This Memo, Devin, isn’t even a good try. You and your staff have to be the laziest alleged obstructors of justice that I’ve ever seen. All it appears to be is a lame-ass defense of a self-important goofball Russophile named Carter Page. That’s all you got?

The FBI found that Page had been actively cultivated by Russian intelligence as a possible asset. And now, your whole argument is that the FISA warrants were prompted by the Steele dossier and that Steele is a shtunk who was biased against the president*? For this, you needed a memo? For this, you needed a month’s worth of drama? For this, you needed to demolish the good faith between the intelligence community and the congressional committees designed to conduct oversight of that community? You couldn’t even get the date of David Corn’s breakthrough story in Mother Jones right. Hell, you could have saved us all the trouble and just done a couple of nights on Hannity to make that case. You’d have reached every single American that currently buys what you’re peddling.

This is threadbare. This is shabby. This reveals absolutely nothing. All it does is damage. It isn't even really good ratfcking. I mean, what the fck, Devin? You should’ve outsourced this to the Russians, who really do know how to do this kind of thing well.

Let us be clear about one thing. I do not care if the meatheads and morons out there buy this bilge. I don’t care how “effective” as spin the acolytes of the Church of The Savvy think the release of The Memo is. I think the Mueller investigation will blow through this flimsy excuse for an argument like a train through a willow tree. But the damage it will do to congressional oversight of the intelligence community—a dubious proposition on its best day, which was not Friday, god knows—will be long-lasting and far-reaching.

[stilldropin20]

well...gotta say it...if there is no outrage over this by anyone on CNN or anyone on here then Trump needs to allow congress to remove Rosenstein STAT. Let Congress do that for him based on his direct threats to them.

Then once Rosenstein is removed he needs to hire Dan Bongino as FBI director. Simultaneously fire sessions and hire Trey Gowdy as Attorney general. and since there is no FISA concern about how it was used those 2 need to fully explore these FISA powers on any and all political opponents including all of the outgoing admin DOJ/FBI. Because from their perspective, they all colluded to throw the election and then colluded to throw the election by removing Trump with a fake coup.

And by they I do mean Obama, Comey, Yates, Lynch, HRC, WJC, Rosenstein, Mccabe, Ohr, Strzok, Lisa Page.

Fully observe all of them for a few years and make sure they dont attempt another coup. Let the leaks fall where there may.

Any pushback on this is pure unadulterated hypocrisy because you clearly dont have issues with surveilling americans.

[Pointgod]

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[cammac]

well...gotta say it...if there is no outrage over this by anyone on CNN or anyone on here then Trump needs to allow congress to remove Rosenstein STAT. Let Congress do that for him based on his direct threats to them.

Then once Rosenstein is removed he needs to hire Dan Bongino as FBI director. Simultaneously fire sessions and hire Trey Gowdy as Attorney general. and since there is no FISA concern about how it was used those 2 need to fully explore these FISA powers on any and all political opponents including all of the outgoing admin DOJ/FBI. Because from their perspective, they all colluded to throw the election and then colluded to throw the election by removing Trump with a fake coup.

And by they I do mean Obama, Comey, Yates, Lynch, HRC, WJC, Rosenstein, Mccabe, Ohr, Strzok, Lisa Page.

Fully observe all of them for a few years and make sure they dont attempt another coup. Let the leaks fall where there may.

Any pushback on this is pure unadulterated hypocrisy because you clearly dont have issues with surveilling americans.

Since all these Republicans most of whom he hired Sessions, Wray & Rosenstein have been such duds. Maybe he should hiring Democrats!!!!

[Pointgod]

Other than the fact that SD20 can’t tell the difference between FBI Director and Deputy Attorney General. This is the misinformed and unhinged lunatic he wants running a government organization.

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He also wants Trey Gowdy who wasted millions on a Benghazi witch hunt (a real witch hunt) to be Attorney General but he might not get the results SD20 wants:

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[Pointgod]

Everyone should go take a look at Conservative twitter. I have an understanding of why some posters on here are impossible to reach. It’s just a feedback loop of anger, misinformation, conspiracy theories and memes. It’s good to look into the psyche of Trump suppprters, but prolonged exposure might cause permanent damage.

[FAH1223]

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[stilldropin20]

Everyone should go take a look at Conservative twitter. I have an understanding of why some posters on here are impossible to reach. It’s just a feedback loop of anger, misinformation, conspiracy theories and memes. It’s good to look into the psyche of Trump suppprters, but prolonged exposure might cause permanent damage.

Keep in mind that there are 63 million of us indeed half the voting public.

We are Unified.

I bring this up because I strongly encourage negotiating with us.

For example if I were a d in Congress I would immediately come to terms with at least fisa misuse you don't have to bring it to abuse.

Then help Trump negotiate his way out of the special prosecutor for more concessions on DACA and the infrastructure Bill simultaneously rewriting the fisa laws so Trump cannot use that against DS in the future.

That's the smart Play All Around. Everything else is petulance. And I have extreme confidence that this Congress can be extremely petulant because the American public is indeed very petulant.

Sent from my SM-N920T using RealGM mobile app

[verbal8]

Everyone should go take a look at Conservative twitter. I have an understanding of why some posters on here are impossible to reach. It’s just a feedback loop of anger, misinformation, conspiracy theories and memes. It’s good to look into the psyche of Trump suppprters, but prolonged exposure might cause permanent damage.

What are the typical thoughts on the memo? Are there any negative reactions about it?

[Wizardspride]

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[Pointgod]

Everyone should go take a look at Conservative twitter. I have an understanding of why some posters on here are impossible to reach. It’s just a feedback loop of anger, misinformation, conspiracy theories and memes. It’s good to look into the psyche of Trump suppprters, but prolonged exposure might cause permanent damage.

What are the typical thoughts on the memo? Are there any negative reactions about it?

Some of these people make Nate and SD20 seem informed and composed. But for the most part it’s they literally repeat the same talking points when it comes to the memo. They cite the same factual inaccuracies well and they have predictable responses.

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Subtlety is not a thing on Conservative twitter.