Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 7

[Dat2U]

Word, Masi is the exact opposite of Lazy Ernie. Masi could have kicked-back and just made another run with his current roster, instead he is upping the ante and will possibly reload in a trade will LA.

I kill Ernie for a lot but why in the world would we do what Toronto just did? We basically would have had to sacrifice Beal and a pick to get a guy who probably has as little interest in playing in DC as he does Toronto.

There definitely is risk, but there are a couple examples of potential payoffs.

Paul George - A year might change a star players mind about a team/city.
The 2010-11 Dallas Mavs - sometimes a good(vs. great) team wins a championship

Paul George and Kawhi Leonard are completely opposite in terms of personality. What works for Paul won't necessarily work for Kawhi.

Also Kawhi doesn't want to play for anyone other than LA. It's not just that Kawhi is going to leave in a year, he's basically refusing to play.

Also good luck making a long playoff run with someone that already has one foot out the door. Especially if Toronto has to play hard ball to get him on the court. It generally doesn't work that way. A player has to buy in or he's just playing out the string and not putting his body at risk.

[gtn130]

A year of being a major contender to win the East seems worthwhile as opposed to years of winning 40 games.

People are also underestimating having Kawhi's bird rights. Players rarely turn down the money despite all the noise they make that they will.

[Dat2U]

A year of being a major contender to win the East seems worthwhile as opposed to years of winning 40 games.

People are also underestimating having Kawhi's bird rights. Players rarely turn down the money despite all the noise they make that they will.

Kawhi already turned down a super max extension to get out of SA.

This reminds me of the nonsense of people suggesting we deal Porter and/or other assets for Cousins coming off a torn achillies.

It's like ANY risk is apparently a WORTHWHILE risk to Wizards fans.

[Kanyewest]

In the end this will help the Wizards. This will force Toronto into a retool or a rebuild, likely this season. They actually may be good enough to still make the playoffs - but not get to 50 wins.

My guess is Toronto ends up trading Kawhi to the Lakers without him ever playing a minute in a Raptors uniform.

Something like Brandon Ingram, Loul Deng & a 1st rd pick

It will be interesting to monitor. Teams like Boston and Philadelphia will be better but then again teams like Cleveland will be worse. Does this trade make the Raptors more than 9 wins worse given that they won 59 last season? Probably not although guys like Lowry and Ibaka are getting older.

[gtn130]

A year of being a major contender to win the East seems worthwhile as opposed to years of winning 40 games.

People are also underestimating having Kawhi's bird rights. Players rarely turn down the money despite all the noise they make that they will.

Kawhi already turned down a super max extension to get out of SA.

This reminds me of the nonsense of people suggesting we deal Porter and/or other assets for Cousins coming off a torn achillies.

It's like ANY risk is apparently a WORTHWHILE risk to Wizards fans.

And SA still thought they had a good chance of signing an extension despite the fractured relationship. It didn't work out for them, but the point still stands that the team with bird rights is the favorite.

I wasn't a fan of trading for Cousins because his injury is really serious. A healthy Cousins, though, I'd definitely sign off on.

In general I'm not sure why this Wizards core is considered by some to be super valuable and worth holding onto. Maxed Wall, Beal and Porter are all neutral assets at best. Wall's contract is very likely a negative asset and will get worse each year as he gets older.

[barelyawake]

Masai is bold. I wish we had a GM like that.

Word, Masi is the exact opposite of Lazy Ernie. Masi could have kicked-back and just made another run with his current roster, instead he is upping the ante and will possibly reload in a trade will LA.

I kill Ernie for a lot but why in the world would we do what Toronto just did? We basically would have had to sacrifice Beal and a pick to get a guy who probably has as little interest in playing in DC as he does Toronto.

I didn’t want to buy half the crap I do at midnight off infomercials and the internet, that’s why they call it salesmanship. That includes marketing your current players so they get their due in the media, so later you can up their trade value (like we’ve never done with Porter or Oubre). That includes offering players incentives that don’t count against the cap (like coaches, luxury training facilities, and top doctors) to keep old players and entice new ones. It also means being able to sell an idea to players and other GMs. A salesman could sell what’s called a vision. We ain’t got either of those - salesmen or visions.

[FAH1223]

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[trast66]

Masai is bold. I wish we had a GM like that.

Word, Masi is the exact opposite of Lazy Ernie. Masi could have kicked-back and just made another run with his current roster, instead he is upping the ante and will possibly reload in a trade will LA.

I kill Ernie for a lot but why in the world would we do what Toronto just did? We basically would have had to sacrifice Beal and a pick to get a guy who probably has as little interest in playing in DC as he does Toronto.

I’m with you on this, don’t get this move for Toronto unless he thinks can get a great deal from Lakers and that DeRozan just not that good. Masai has a good track record so assume he’s got something up his sleeve. If not, this deal is a dud for Raptors.

[verbal8]

I kill Ernie for a lot but why in the world would we do what Toronto just did? We basically would have had to sacrifice Beal and a pick to get a guy who probably has as little interest in playing in DC as he does Toronto.

There definitely is risk, but there are a couple examples of potential payoffs.

Paul George - A year might change a star players mind about a team/city.
The 2010-11 Dallas Mavs - sometimes a good(vs. great) team wins a championship

Paul George and Kawhi Leonard are completely opposite in terms of personality. What works for Paul won't necessarily work for Kawhi.

Also Kawhi doesn't want to play for anyone other than LA. It's not just that Kawhi is going to leave in a year, he's basically refusing to play.

Also good luck making a long playoff run with someone that already has one foot out the door. Especially if Toronto has to play hard ball to get him on the court. It generally doesn't work that way. A player has to buy in or he's just playing out the string and not putting his body at risk.

It looks like Leonard's dislike of playing for the Raptors is overrated.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/250764/Raptors-Have-Positive-Initial-Conversation-With-Kawhi-Leonard

I could see why he(or his people) would want to put out the preference for LA now. It might have been an attempt to get the Lakers to jump in and match/beat the Raptors trade package. It might not have worked out, but a trade to LA now means he could get the 5 year designated player deal from LA next year.

[verbal8]

If the Raptors were not truthful in telling him their expectations, I feel bad for DeRozan. Looks like he had bad luck in the way his contracts lined up that he was a year shy of being eligible for a no-trade clause.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nba-players-bothered-raptors-trading-222150215.html

[nate33]

There definitely is risk, but there are a couple examples of potential payoffs.

Paul George - A year might change a star players mind about a team/city.
The 2010-11 Dallas Mavs - sometimes a good(vs. great) team wins a championship

Paul George and Kawhi Leonard are completely opposite in terms of personality. What works for Paul won't necessarily work for Kawhi.

Also Kawhi doesn't want to play for anyone other than LA. It's not just that Kawhi is going to leave in a year, he's basically refusing to play.

Also good luck making a long playoff run with someone that already has one foot out the door. Especially if Toronto has to play hard ball to get him on the court. It generally doesn't work that way. A player has to buy in or he's just playing out the string and not putting his body at risk.

It looks like Leonard's dislike of playing for the Raptors is overrated.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/250764/Raptors-Have-Positive-Initial-Conversation-With-Kawhi-Leonard

I could see why he(or his people) would want to put out the preference for LA now. It might have been an attempt to get the Lakers to jump in and match/beat the Raptors trade package. It might not have worked out, but a trade to LA now means he could get the 5 year designated player deal from LA next year.

I'm pretty sure he became ineligible for the Designated Player contract the moment he got traded. You can only get that extension on the team that drafted you, or for the team that acquired you while still on your rookie contract. If you get traded after your rookie contract is over, you are forever ineligible.

[dckingsfan]

Word, Masi is the exact opposite of Lazy Ernie. Masi could have kicked-back and just made another run with his current roster, instead he is upping the ante and will possibly reload in a trade will LA.

I kill Ernie for a lot but why in the world would we do what Toronto just did? We basically would have had to sacrifice Beal and a pick to get a guy who probably has as little interest in playing in DC as he does Toronto.

I’m with you on this, don’t get this move for Toronto unless he thinks can get a great deal from Lakers and that DeRozan just not that good. Masai has a good track record so assume he’s got something up his sleeve. If not, this deal is a dud for Raptors.

I think he was trying to figure out a way to start the rebuild. He truly didn't believe in the team as it was constructed and wanted to build around the younger players.

I think it has become pretty obvious that Boston and Philly are our of their (and the rest of the EC) tier. He isn't looking to just get back into the playoffs again. If Leonard leaves (as most predict he will), he will start the rebuild. If Leonard stay (for whatever reason) then it was a good long-term trade. Win-win from his perspective.

[verbal8]

Paul George and Kawhi Leonard are completely opposite in terms of personality. What works for Paul won't necessarily work for Kawhi.

Also Kawhi doesn't want to play for anyone other than LA. It's not just that Kawhi is going to leave in a year, he's basically refusing to play.

Also good luck making a long playoff run with someone that already has one foot out the door. Especially if Toronto has to play hard ball to get him on the court. It generally doesn't work that way. A player has to buy in or he's just playing out the string and not putting his body at risk.

It looks like Leonard's dislike of playing for the Raptors is overrated.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/250764/Raptors-Have-Positive-Initial-Conversation-With-Kawhi-Leonard

I could see why he(or his people) would want to put out the preference for LA now. It might have been an attempt to get the Lakers to jump in and match/beat the Raptors trade package. It might not have worked out, but a trade to LA now means he could get the 5 year designated player deal from LA next year.

I'm pretty sure he became ineligible for the Designated Player contract the moment he got traded. You can only get that extension on the team that drafted you, or for the team that acquired you while still on your rookie contract. If you get traded after your rookie contract is over, you are forever ineligible.

You are correct on him no longer being eligible as a designated player.

It would open up the 5th year and higher raises of a Bird Rights deal.

[verbal8]

Word, Masi is the exact opposite of Lazy Ernie. Masi could have kicked-back and just made another run with his current roster, instead he is upping the ante and will possibly reload in a trade will LA.

I kill Ernie for a lot but why in the world would we do what Toronto just did? We basically would have had to sacrifice Beal and a pick to get a guy who probably has as little interest in playing in DC as he does Toronto.

I’m with you on this, don’t get this move for Toronto unless he thinks can get a great deal from Lakers and that DeRozan just not that good. Masai has a good track record so assume he’s got something up his sleeve. If not, this deal is a dud for Raptors.

I think he figures the "floor scenario" is the Lakers send a couple 1sts and expiring contracts(Rondo and KCP) - or (Deng and more) in early 2019 for Leonard.

[dckingsfan]

Well, if Green/Leonard do play for Toronto this year... guess we would be the floor

[Rafael122]

Paul George and Kawhi Leonard are completely opposite in terms of personality. What works for Paul won't necessarily work for Kawhi.

Also Kawhi doesn't want to play for anyone other than LA. It's not just that Kawhi is going to leave in a year, he's basically refusing to play.

Also good luck making a long playoff run with someone that already has one foot out the door. Especially if Toronto has to play hard ball to get him on the court. It generally doesn't work that way. A player has to buy in or he's just playing out the string and not putting his body at risk.

It looks like Leonard's dislike of playing for the Raptors is overrated.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/250764/Raptors-Have-Positive-Initial-Conversation-With-Kawhi-Leonard

I could see why he(or his people) would want to put out the preference for LA now. It might have been an attempt to get the Lakers to jump in and match/beat the Raptors trade package. It might not have worked out, but a trade to LA now means he could get the 5 year designated player deal from LA next year.

I'm pretty sure he became ineligible for the Designated Player contract the moment he got traded. You can only get that extension on the team that drafted you, or for the team that acquired you while still on your rookie contract. If you get traded after your rookie contract is over, you are forever ineligible.

Leonard's uncle has cost Kawhi so much money. I lost count, I think it's something like $80 million.

[Ruzious]

Does anyone understand why Atl traded Schroeder for Melo? Yes, it's obvious Schroeder's not in their plans, but they're crazy if they think they're anything but a rebuilding team. So why Melo? Are they gonna buy him out? So basically all they get is a 2022 1st rounder while giving away Muscala?

[nate33]

Does anyone understand why Atl traded Schroeder for Melo? Yes, it's obvious Schroeder's not in their plans, but they're crazy if they think they're anything but a rebuilding team. So why Melo? Are they gonna buy him out? So basically all they get is a 2022 1st rounder while giving away Muscala?

Schroeder had 3 years left at $15.5M per year. That's $46.5M. Melo is only going to cost $28.7M, and maybe a bit less if they buy him out. So they save $18M in the exchange. But they also increase their short term salary by $8M, which is good because they're below the minimum salary threshold.

Muscala is a serviceable NBA player, but he's just a guy. He was an unrestricted free agent next summer anyhow. Trading him for a 1st seems like a good deal to me.

[Kanyewest]

Looks like the Hawks also got Justin Anderson in the deal.

[dckingsfan]

Does anyone understand why Atl traded Schroeder for Melo? Yes, it's obvious Schroeder's not in their plans, but they're crazy if they think they're anything but a rebuilding team. So why Melo? Are they gonna buy him out? So basically all they get is a 2022 1st rounder while giving away Muscala?

They have been trying to get away from Schroder for some time - and then they drafted Trey Young and got Lin in a trade. So, they picked up a first round pick and went from:

Code: Select all

Schroder   Young     Lin   
Bazemore   Huerta    Dorsey    Cleveland?
Prince     Bembry      
Collins    Muscala   Spellman   
Dedmon     Plumlee      


to:

Code: Select all

Young      Lin      
Bazemore   Huerta    Dorsey     Cleveland?
Anderson   Prince    Bembry   
Collins    Muscala   Spellman   
Dedmon     Plumlee