2021 Depth Chart

[payitforward]

No, Homesley got an Exhibit 10 contract. These are not much more than TC contracts: https://www.netsdaily.com/2017/9/28/16378350/confused-by-two-day-deals-and-whats-an-exhibit-10

...Exhibit 10 (is) a new type of deal....

A player who is signed to a contract with an Exhibit 10 will receive a bonus up to $50,000 if he signs a contract with the team's G League affiliate upon being waived from the parent club.

However, there is a catch. A player waived by Oct. 17 must report to his G League affiliate by Oct. 20 and remain there for at least 60 days to receive the bonus (in addition to the G League salary). Unlike last season, when a team would incur a salary-cap hit for players with partially guaranteed money who were eventually waived at the end of training camp, an NBA team will not have a cap charge for the bonus money awarded.

A player signed with an Exhibit 10 can also be converted to a two-way contract by the first day of the regular season. The bonus would then be rescinded and the two-way contract would apply.

(Obviously, those October dates have changed for now)

In short, an Exhibit 10 contract is a Training Camp deal that allows the team to convert it to a 2-way deal if they like. Or, if they don't care to do that, the contract enables them to move the signee to their G League team for the cost of a $50K bonus (i.e. the player doesn't hit free agency first).

We gave one of these to Phil Booth last July & to Jalen Jones last October.

[Thedragonking]

Rui started because he had no other options. Bertans can't log starter's minutes at PF.

Bonga started, but he wasn't a rookie.

I don't think Avdija will be better defensively than Bonga, and that's what the starting lineup needs more than anything else. Usually rookies are awful defensively.

We will see. It's tough to project European players. I think it's going to be tough to keep Advija on the bench. And Bonga is so limited offensively. His ceiling is a 3 and D guy. I also think he lacks basketball awareness.

Ha, then I'd say the writer of that sentence lacks basketball awareness. Awareness he has, what Bonga lacks is athleticism and offensive aggressiveness, confidence in his shot. He shoots a nice ball when he is open, but has a slow release and doesn't try when guarded despite his height advantage. I think he is still a bit tentative at NBA 3pt distance vs FIBA range. I also think some of what looks like tentative play is a difference in Euro vs NBA team play. He looks like he is deferring and making a pass instead of calling his own number, but in Euro play that ball would pop around until it found the open player. He's just being a good teammate. In the NBA sometimes the better play is to attack attack attack. That's on coaching.

Still, Nate hit it, he has defensive awareness, he was the best team defender on the team without exception. Otherwise he is a good complementary player, nice handle and passing, makes smart cuts on backdoor attacks when ignored, reads the team well, and hits a wide open three when he pulls the trigger. He was the youngest player on the team last year, but has had experience in german pro teams since he was 16. All Bonga needs is confidence in his outside shot so he's willing to fire it when it hits his hands. He may look like he is moving underwater at times, but his length and awareness make up for his lack of quick twitch speed. He is in the right place most of the time. If his catch and shoot 3 has improved then I would not doubt he will start.

Deni will play, we will see him out there, but it will take a little bit for him to adjust to the speed of the NBA, and yeah rookies are defensive liabilities. Opposing stars attack them, refs give them no benefit of the whistle. Deni was starved for minutes in Euro play. Didn't start. It's unlikely he displaces the player who had the teams 2nd best +/- last year in Bonga. With Brooks especially who likes to make rookies earn their place on the floor. Give Deni time, his game awareness will come. I personally think he will work better testing out what he can and cannot do in a 2nd line with Troy catching him on cuts and Bertans spacing the floor, and against back ups and starters who are headed to the bench.

He will try as hard as he can!
Not sure what's the issue with speed, he is not a regular euro slow player.

[doclinkin]

Deni will play, we will see him out there, but it will take a little bit for him to adjust to the speed of the NBA.

He will try as hard as he can!
Not sure what's the issue with speed, he is not a regular euro slow player.

All rookies (except phenoms like Doncic and LeBron) struggle when they hit the league. Deni has a mental advantage in that he has been playing against bigger and stronger and more athletic players than him since he was playing as a pro at age 16. He has had adjustment periods before, and won't get down if he has to retool to figure what he can and cannot do, but the guys he is facing will be better than the ones he has faced to this point. Faster on offense, longer and quicker on defense.

Put it this way, by the accounts of scouts and pundits (if not popular MVP vote) this guy was the best player in Israel right now:

Watch on YouTube

Nice to see Amare still at work, and balling out and getting post season MVP awards, but his NBA playing days are long done.

[nate33]

Last year's depth chart:
PG Thomas/Ish
SG Beal/Brown/Robinson
SF Bonga/McRae
PF Hachimura/Bertans
C Bryant/Mahinmi/Wagner

This year's depth chart:
PG Wall/Ish
SG Beal/Brown/Robinson
SF Bonga/Advija
PF Hachimura/Bertans
C Bryant/Lopez/Wagner

The team has minimal turnover of major-minute players relative to most other teams. Only one starter has changed (and he practiced briefly with the team last year and is absolutely familiar with the playbook), and only two bench players have changed. That should give us considerable advantage over most other teams in the league.

It's also a help that we played in the bubble in August because we won't be as rusty as non-bubble teams who haven't played since early March. And it's also nice that we didn't make the playoffs so our players are more rested that the top tier teams who played all the way into October.

Overall, we are probably about as ideally positioned as one could hope for a strong start to the new season. Playoff teams are tired and worn out. Non-bubble teams are rusty. And most other teams have had greater turnover.

[payitforward]

I love that spin, nate! May it work out just the way you've got it...!

[payitforward]

Actually... what is our depth chart? Or, a more basic question: what is our roster?

...This year's depth chart:
PG Wall/Ish
SG Beal/Brown/Robinson
SF Bonga/Advija
PF Hachimura/Bertans
C Bryant/Lopez/Wagner...

Nate lists 12 players. But, we also signed Gill & Neto. That's 14.

So... where's the 15th player going to come from?

Garrison Mathews & Cassius Winston are on 2 way contracts.
Yoeli Childs & Caleb Homesley are on Exhibit 10 contracts.

Looks like the final player will come from one of those 4 guys. If either Mathews or Winston is promoted, then one of Childs or Homesley will get a 2-way contract. I suppose it's conceivable that either Childs or Homesley shows enough in TC to jump over Mathews & Winston.

Alternatively, someone promising may be cut by another team. The only other possibility is that we pick up Pasecniks' option -- but, I have heard no mention of him at all in quite a long time.

[dckingsfan]

Last year's depth chart:
PG19 Thomas/Ish
That was much of our problem last year.

PG20 Wall/Ish/Neto
Pretty deep and a very large upgrade.

SG19 Beal/McRae/Robinson
Not to be picky buy McRae was more the SG andPayton and a bunch of minutes in there as well.

SG20 Beal/Brown/Mathews/Robinson
This can allow us to not overplay Beal if Brown steps up like I think he can. I think Mathews outplays Robinson for that slot by the end of the season.

SF19 Bonga, Brown
IMO, this had Brown playing out of position but where he played near to 70% of his minutes.

SF20 Bonga, Avidja,
This is an upgrade if Bonga takes a step.

PF19 Hachimura/Bertans
Struggled on D.

PF20 Hachimura/Bertans/Gill
Also an upgrade if Hachimura takes a step. Probably will still struggle on D.

C19 Bryant/Mahinmi/Wagner
Bryant took a mini step back and Mahimni played better than what we expected. I guess the same for Wagner whom I had no expections (so opinion).

C20 Bryant/Lopez/Wagner
This is the one that drives me crazy, so I will look at the positive. I think that both Bryant and Wagner will improve.

Coach is the same. So, there is that.

[doclinkin]

Alternatively, someone promising may be cut by another team. The only other possibility is that we pick up Pasecniks' option -- but, I have heard no mention of him at all in quite a long time.

I think he is signed for the year unless the deadlines for contracts were extended or he was quietly waived without any notice.

2020/21 $1,517,981
2021/22 $1,782,621

Only $250,000 guaranteed for 2020/21. His contract becomes fully guaranteed if not waived by November 24, 2020. His 2021/22 contract becomes guaranteed if not waived by July 10, 2021.

[wall_glizzy]

Alternatively, someone promising may be cut by another team. The only other possibility is that we pick up Pasecniks' option -- but, I have heard no mention of him at all in quite a long time.

I think he is signed for the year unless the deadlines for contracts were extended or he was quietly waived without any notice.

2020/21 $1,517,981
2021/22 $1,782,621

Only $250,000 guaranteed for 2020/21. His contract becomes fully guaranteed if not waived by November 24, 2020. His 2021/22 contract becomes guaranteed if not waived by July 10, 2021.

This is the answer, but he's not fully guaranteed for this year yet - they extended the deadline for the contract becoming guaranteed to February 1st. The guarantee was also upped by $100,000, to $350,000.

[penbeast0]

I can see something like this happening: Wall, T. Brown & a 2021 1st for Westbrook

PG Westbrook, Neto, I. Smith
SG Beal, J. Robinson, Mathews
SF Avdija, Bonga
PF Hachimura, Bertans, Gill
C Bryant, R. Lopez, Wagner

This is the exact trade I posted in a different thread but with a 2nd round pick instead of a 1st. I expect it probably will be a 1st though.

Being extremely unimpressed with Hachimura last year, I would offer him and Robinson instead of the first if I wanted to make a Wall for Westbrook deal, and get back the aging but still capable of playing NBA defense (if not any offense) PJ Tucker.

[arusinov]

Deni will play, we will see him out there, but it will take a little bit for him to adjust to the speed of the NBA.

He will try as hard as he can!
Not sure what's the issue with speed, he is not a regular euro slow player.

All rookies (except phenoms like Doncic and LeBron) struggle when they hit the league. Deni has a mental advantage in that he has been playing against bigger and stronger and more athletic players than him since he was playing as a pro at age 16. He has had adjustment periods before, and won't get down if he has to retool to figure what he can and cannot do, but the guys he is facing will be better than the ones he has faced to this point. Faster on offense, longer and quicker on defense.

Put it this way, by the accounts of scouts and pundits (if not popular MVP vote) this guy was the best player in Israel right now:

Watch on YouTube

Nice to see Amare still at work, and balling out and getting post season MVP awards, but his NBA playing days are long done.

Hm... First, this specific clip is not from this season and it has Amare playing against Maccabi and not for Maccabi
In fact Amare was very long way from being MVP in I-BSL. He was signed as emergency replacement for injured Tarik Black mid-season and the only reason Maccabi did it - Amare is Israeli citizen and so he's not counted as foreign player in Israeli league.

He was signed as "big" off bench and it was precisely his role with averages of 8.7 / 4.4 / 1.1 (in same period Avdija by the way averaged around 16 / 8 / 3 ). What did happen - in the final game when the teams' stars (Wilbeken and well.. Avdija) for whatever reasons stumbled and couldn't score Amare suddenly recalled old times and led the team with his season high 16 pts

[closg00]

Watch on YouTube

Nice to see Amare still at work, and balling out and getting post season MVP awards, but his NBA playing days are long done.

Did you see that the bones of Jared Dudley has gotten another 1-year contract? Looks like Amare can still be a 5-10 minute per game player in the NBA.

[doclinkin]

He was signed as emergency replacement for injured Tarik Black mid-season and the only reason Maccabi did it - Amare is Israeli citizen and so he's not counted as foreign player in Israeli league.

You're not making the case you think you're making, you're only underscoring my point. Right, the Israel Premier league has a limited talent pool because of quotas. Such that when one American starter goes down (Tarik Black who last averaged 3.5 points and 3.2 rebounds in the NBA) you can replace him with a re-tread retired American player. Who wins MVP of the finals for you.

But go down the Maccabee Euroleague roster.

Scottie Wilbekin
Quincy Acy
Omri Casspi
Aaron Jackson
Nate Wolters
Aaron Jackson

Guys who once had an NBA career but now don't, or who briefly showed up but didn't stick, or who we followed in the NCAA but never made a team.

They didn't stick because the next guy was bigger stronger faster and longer. It is especially notable on defense. Deni may be an outlier, may prove to be an exception, but on the Eruoleague roster I'm looking at he was 12th in minutes per game, behind those guys above. In Israel league play he may be a star, cool, but when playing in the Euroleague he was shifted to a bench role when he would be facing a slightly higher level of competition. You can blame the coach and discuss reasons why, but it happened. The coach didn't yet trust that his talent superceded the skill level required. In the NBA the level is that much better. I like his attitude and work ethic and instincts and early signs of advanced skills, but on defense especially all rookies have to adjust, even the athletic hypertalents, even those in NCAA conferences that are notable as feeder teams stocked with surefire NBA all-star athletic talent.

[Dat2U]

The biggest concern is easily the defense at the C position. They are needing a Thomas Bryant breakout to really be more than just a .500-ish type of team. He's still young, inconsistent night to night and struggles mightly in P&Rs. Wall & Beal want to switch. Bryant switchinh onto Gs will be exploited regularly. Then to top it off, we need a major bounce back year from Robin Lopez who looked washed last season and would even be a clear downgrade over Ian Mahinmi if his play doesn't improve. Moritz Wagner only has enough footspeed to hack the guy hes guarding so I just don't see him as anything more than a break-in-case-of-emergency gunner who can hit some 3s.

Also, Bonga offensively might be better at PF than on the wing but he's easily the best and only reliable wing defender. I don't like the Bonga/Hachimura tandem together either for spacing reasons offensively. Another wing that can hit open 3s would have really been nice.

[arusinov]

He was signed as emergency replacement for injured Tarik Black mid-season and the only reason Maccabi did it - Amare is Israeli citizen and so he's not counted as foreign player in Israeli league.

You're not making the case you think you're making, you're only underscoring my point. Right, the Israel Superleague has a limited talent pool because of quotas. Such that when one American starter goes down (Tarik Black who last averaged 3.5 points and 3.2 rebounds in the NBA) you can replace him with a re-tread retired American player. Who wins MVP of the finals for you.

But go down the Maccabee Euroleague roster.

Scottie Wilbekin
Quincy Acy
Omri Casspi
Aaron Jackson
Nate Wolters
Aaron Jackson

Guys who once had an NBA career but now don't, or who briefly showed up but didn't stick, or who we followed in the NCAA but never made a team.

They didn't stick because the next guy was bigger stronger faster and longer. It is especially notable on defense. Deni may be an outlier, may prove to be an exception, but on the Eruoleague roster I'm looking at he was 12th in minutes per game, behind those guys above. In Israel league play he may be a star, cool, but when playing in the Euroleague he was shifted to a bench role when he would be facing a slightly higher level of competition. You can blame the coach and discuss reasons why, but it happened. The coach didn't yet trust that his talent superceded the skill level required. In the NBA the level is that much better. I like his attitude and work ethic and instincts and early signs of advanced skills, but on defense especially all rookies have to adjust, even the athletic hypertalents, even those in NCAA conferences that are notable as feeder teams stocked with surefire NBA all-star athletic talent.

Did I say that I-BSL is literally almost NBA? No, I didn't. But it's not bad league which is much better than any NCAA conference.

It's not one of best leagues in Europe... But you know what? It is one of most athletic leagues outside NBA. Why? For simple reason - I-BSL teams has up to 6 foreign players. All leagues in Europe has this kind of rules. But in most cases those rules are relaxed concerning other EU countries (Balkans for example...) but very rigid concerning others. In Spain for example teams also can sign players from some not-EU countries (from Caribbean region for example) but only 2 "others" (e,g, Americans). So I-BSL is stacked with all kind of former NCAA-1 players which couldn't find place in NBA or failed there... Those guys just got choice - 2nd division in Greece, France or at best Spain - or I-BSL where all foreign players are equal.

And you got status of Avdija in Euroleague all wrong... He wasn't "shifted to a bench role" - he started the year as a fringe guy which the coach even didn't plan to use in Euroleague much (why? cause Sfairopoulus as most Euroleague coaches believes in vets... and not gives much chances to youngsters) and as season progressed he became very important player in the rotation

[dckingsfan]

The biggest concern is easily the defense at the C position. They are needing a Thomas Bryant breakout to really be more than just a .500-ish type of team. He's still young, inconsistent night to night and struggles mightly in P&Rs. Wall & Beal want to switch. Bryant switchinh onto Gs will be exploited regularly. Then to top it off, we need a major bounce back year from Robin Lopez who looked washed last season and would even be a clear downgrade over Ian Mahinmi if his play doesn't improve. Moritz Wagner only has enough footspeed to hack the guy hes guarding so I just don't see him as anything more than a break-in-case-of-emergency gunner who can hit some 3s.

Also, Bonga offensively might be better at PF than on the wing but he's easily the best and only reliable wing defender. I don't like the Bonga/Hachimura tandem together either for spacing reasons offensively. Another wing that can hit open 3s would have really been nice.

This. For this season, that is our biggest hole. I just don't see Lopez playing any productive defensive minutes, same with Wager.

Add to that Rui and Bertans aren't all that defensively. I know many have hope for Rui defensively and I would be a curmudgeon to say that won't happen. But I don't think it will happen this year.

So, if you are Brooks, you have to figure the only way you are going to win is to score. Going to be a fascinating year.

[doclinkin]

Did I say that I-BSL is literally almost NBA? No, I didn't. But it's not bad league which is much better than any NCAA conference.

It's not. I actually peek in on Maccabi every now and again. Ever since Sarunas Jasickevicius was winning Euroleague titles for them and then later I think when David Blatt was coaching if I recall correctly. There is a reason Deni is the first Israeli player drafted in the lottery. Most years Duke or Kentucky could field a team that would compete and win the Israeli league. North Carolina. The ACC in particular is stacked every year. There is a reason there currently are 85 players from the ACC in the NBA and exactly one now from Israel. I get it you like your guy and feel like he is a step above the local talent and will succeed. I am hopeful he is. Keep your expectations low for his rookie year is all I'm saying. All but the top talent in the world struggles for their first couple years, and by year 3 they realize their role in the league and manage to consistently put it together.

[Frichuela]

The biggest concern is easily the defense at the C position. They are needing a Thomas Bryant breakout to really be more than just a .500-ish type of team. He's still young, inconsistent night to night and struggles mightly in P&Rs. Wall & Beal want to switch. Bryant switchinh onto Gs will be exploited regularly. Then to top it off, we need a major bounce back year from Robin Lopez who looked washed last season and would even be a clear downgrade over Ian Mahinmi if his play doesn't improve. Moritz Wagner only has enough footspeed to hack the guy hes guarding so I just don't see him as anything more than a break-in-case-of-emergency gunner who can hit some 3s.

Also, Bonga offensively might be better at PF than on the wing but he's easily the best and only reliable wing defender. I don't like the Bonga/Hachimura tandem together either for spacing reasons offensively. Another wing that can hit open 3s would have really been nice.

This. For this season, that is our biggest hole. I just don't see Lopez playing any productive defensive minutes, same with Wager.

Add to that Rui and Bertans aren't all that defensively. I know many have hope for Rui defensively and I would be a curmudgeon to say that won't happen. But I don't think it will happen this year.

So, if you are Brooks, you have to figure the only way you are going to win is to score. Going to be a fascinating year.

Defense will make or break us this year. Not only from the center position (where I agree with the concerns from others) but also from our wings and guards to defend the paint from dribble penetration. This was putrid last season.

Key question: will Wall and Beal commit to improve the team's defensive effort? If they don't, it could turn south quickly, the East has got even stronger this coming season.

[arusinov]

Did I say that I-BSL is literally almost NBA? No, I didn't. But it's not bad league which is much better than any NCAA conference.

It's not. I actually peek in on Maccabi every now and again. Ever since Sarunas Jasickevicius was winning Euroleague titles for them and then later I think when David Blatt was coaching if I recall correctly. There is a reason Deni is the first Israeli player drafted in the lottery. Most years Duke or Kentucky could field a team that would compete and win the Israeli league. North Carolina. The ACC in particular is stacked every year. There is a reason there currently are 85 players from the ACC in the NBA and exactly one now from Israel. I get it you like your guy and feel like he is a step above the local talent and will succeed. I am hopeful he is. Keep your expectations low for his rookie year is all I'm saying. All but the top talent in the world struggles for their first couple years, and by year 3 they realize their role in the league and manage to consistently put it together.

No. You see things in wrong and even strange manner...

I've seen some amount of NCAA games when TJ Leaf (which is Israeli citizen and can help our NT) played his one-and-done season in UCLA. Sure he played against Markkanen and 2nd rounder Ivan Rabb but most guys he played against were not impressive at all - not skilled and not super-athletes too. Sure there were 3-4 really strong team they played against... but most would be easily crashed by any I-BSL team.

The thing is: even in strong conference there're ~100 rotational players - something like 5 maybe 7 of them will be drafted, some dozen more will carve some career oversees... Of rest ~80 guys almost all of them aren't good basketball players whatsoever, and wouldn't be good enough for Israeli 2nd division or Spanish 3rd...

And even strong conference teams played about half of games outside the conference - almost all of them against some mid-major teams' kids

Just for fun - specifically Avdija and top NCAA defender.

Here's episodes from Euro U20 SF game

https://youtu.be/HCH-nc8_UmI?t=132

https://youtu.be/HCH-nc8_UmI?t=243

The defender here is one Yves Pons - not much of offensive weapon but he's SEC "Defensive Player of the Year", known as great athlete and... he's 2+" smaller than Deni... You see how much "success" he has trying to stop Avdija on perimeter

[doclinkin]

Still making my point for me. Against one guy, a 6'6" forward who realized he is not good enough to be an NBA draft pick and returned to school, Deni had success. Nice. However, he is going to be facing players who are consistently better than even the SEC defensive player of the year.

Taking your example of 5-7 players from a strong conference being drafted, compare and contrast with how many or few players are recruited for NBA rosters from the Israel Premier league.

There was a guy I wanted years ago who played for Maccabi I think. I'm forgetting his name. I wanted that dude. I'll have to find it.

GOT IT:

Maceo Baston. I had high hopes he would get stolen by the Wizards. I liked his game in Euro play. I think it was him. Blocks and steals and high energy.