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Ruminating....

Imagine if we'd traded CP3 for the #19 pick instead of for Poole. & we'd taken Podziemski.
Now pretend that instead of moving the #35 to the Bulls we'd picked Andre Jackson Jr.
As well, while you're at it, imagine we'd kept that #57 pick & taken Trayce Jackson-Davis.
Finally, suppose we (instead of Cleveland) had signed Craig Porter, Jr. (who went undrafted)?

Ain't hindsight wonderful?

payitforward wrote:Ruminating....

Imagine if we'd traded CP3 for the #19 pick instead of for Poole. & we'd taken Podziemski.
Now pretend that instead of moving the #35 to the Bulls we'd picked Andre Jackson Jr.
As well, while you're at it, imagine we'd kept that #57 pick & taken Trayce Jackson-Davis.
Finally, suppose we (instead of Cleveland) had signed Craig Porter, Jr. (who went undrafted)?

Ain't hindsight wonderful?

CP3 has a cap number, we needed to get big salary back, thus Poole.

Some of those Dallas fans on Twitter (and the real GM trade board) are ridiculous, thinking Dallas can get both Kuzma and Gafford for just a single pick while giving us fodder (THJ and Holmes).

This is the only way I could see a trade with them, which would involve Golden State:

WAS gets Kuminga+GS 2030 1st (lowered protections to top-3)+DAL 2027 1st +fodder (THJ, Holmes)
GS gets Kuzma
DAL gets Wiggins+Gafford

Dallas won't want Wiggins.

payitforward wrote:Dallas won't want Wiggins.

Well some Dallas fans on Twitter would disagree…see below as an example…

?s=46&t=GWeuz7j_sc5cBYZzdD92Tw

Easy no on that. Gafford is not a throw-in. It would take that Dallas FRP just to turn Holmes into Gafford. Nevermind us giving up Kuzma as well.

TBH I don't know if we'd trade Deni for a first this year. Huge improvement and locked into a contract of terrific value. Currently at .59% TS. Improvement of efficiency like that in a clear tanking season is admirable. His ball handling and attacking development has raised his ceiling even if his ranged shooting doesn't improve much.

I wouldn't be surprised if we're not as active during this years deadline as expected. If you can sign Tyus to 2 years, 30 million (or a bit higher, idk) and move his contract next year instead of this year (same with Kuz really), then you're presumably getting better value (better draft) simply by waiting.

I am hoping we trade Kuzma. I am just tired of watching him and i want to see Deni and Bilal starting next to each other rather than competing with each other for minutes.

tontoz wrote:I am hoping we trade Kuzma. I am just tired of watching him and i want to see Deni and Bilal starting next to each other rather than competing with each other for minutes.

This. Count me in the Kuzma trade bandwagon too.

I would love to trade Kuzma in a package where we get another 2-way young forward (Pat Williams and Kuminga would be my targets). I can not see in this upcoming draft anyone with those characteristics, not a fan of Ron Holland and not sure about Buzelis either.

A line up of PG-Bilal-Williams or Kuminga- Deni-C would be intriguing. In this draft, I'd love to get either Sheppard or Dillingham to slot in that PG role.

Dark Faze wrote:TBH I don't know if we'd trade Deni for a first this year. Huge improvement and locked into a contract of terrific value. Currently at .59% TS. Improvement of efficiency like that in a clear tanking season is admirable. His ball handling and attacking development has raised his ceiling even if his ranged shooting doesn't improve much.

I wouldn't be surprised if we're not as active during this years deadline as expected. If you can sign Tyus to 2 years, 30 million (or a bit higher, idk) and move his contract next year instead of this year (same with Kuz really), then you're presumably getting better value (better draft) simply by waiting.

Yeah, we're almost surely not trading Deni. But Shams is right in that Bilal is the only guy who is truly untradeable.

The issue is time horizon. As the worst team in the league with the worst talent base, we have the longest time horizon and value distant future assets more than anyone else does, and we value current assets less than anyone else does.

Bilal is purely a future asset. Since nobody values the distant future more than us, nobody will give us a future asset more valuable than we value Bilal.

Deni is both a current asset and a future asset. I can at least conceive of teams who would value his immediate impact now more than we do and would therefore give us a future asset that we value more than we value Deni's future. A team like OKC could package a bunch of future 1sts in order to add Deni as a 5th starter/glue guy locked into an ultra-cheap contract for the next 4.5 years.

If we are talking assets, I think both Deni and Bilal but also Kuz with the declining contract.

I wonder if in the future we could move both Kuz and Poole for expiring contracts but without picks. Probably not what we want going forward but...

Frichuela wrote:

tontoz wrote:I am hoping we trade Kuzma. I am just tired of watching him and i want to see Deni and Bilal starting next to each other rather than competing with each other for minutes.

This. Count me in the Kuzma trade bandwagon too.

I would love to trade Kuzma in a package where we get another 2-way young forward (Pat Williams and Kuminga would be my targets). I can not see in this upcoming draft anyone with those characteristics, not a fan of Ron Holland and not sure about Buzelis either.

A line up of PG-Bilal-Williams or Kuminga- Deni-C would be intriguing. In this draft, I'd love to get either Sheppard or Dillingham to slot in that PG role.

I have zero interest in any buy-low player unless they are practically free. I would MUCH rather give minutes to Diallo/Baldwin/Livers and get a better pick, than a lower pick + Pat F'n Williams.

Again, Kuminga Aldama, etc. all have value, but I think a team looking to compete over the next 3 years would value them more.
Missing out on Salaun, Dunn, McCullar, Almansa, Knecht, Edey, or PJ Hall for Pat Williams would be AWFUL.

Dark Faze wrote:TBH I don't know if we'd trade Deni for a first this year. ...

Has anyone suggested that possibility? Hard to imagine.

pcbothwel wrote:

Frichuela wrote:I would love to trade Kuzma in a package where we get another 2-way young forward (Pat Williams and Kuminga would be my targets). I can not see in this upcoming draft anyone with those characteristic....

I have zero interest in any buy-low player unless they are practically free.... Missing out on Salaun, Dunn, McCullar, Almansa, Knecht, Edey, or PJ Hall for Pat Williams would be AWFUL.

I'm not sure what would make anyone want Patrick Williams to tell the truth.

For that matter, unless I've missed something, the Bulls haven't extended him.

I feel like the most obvious and workable landing place for a Tyus trade is Miami. Miami has announced they wish to move Lowry and it's starting to get a little ugly. Lowry has already removed the Heat from his IG bio.

The trade that I'd like to see is Tyus + Delon for Lowry + Jovic + MIA 2027 FRP. I'm okay with top 12 protection on that pick if the pick rolls over to the following year. If they want the pick rights to be extinguished if they don't convey (to maintain Stepien Rule flexibility), then I'd insist on no more than top 4 protection.

Not only does this upgrade Miami's backcourt, but it save them a whopping 9.8M in salary which nearly gets them out of the luxury tax. It will save them something like $30M in salary and tax payments.

nate33 wrote:I feel like the most obvious and workable landing place for a Tyus trade is Miami. Miami has announced they wish to move Lowry and it's starting to get a little ugly. Lowry has already removed the Heat from his IG bio.

The trade that I'd like to see is Tyus + Delon for Lowry + Jovic + MIA 2027 FRP. I'm okay with top 12 protection on that pick if the pick rolls over to the following year. If they want the pick rights to be extinguished if they don't convey (to maintain Stepien Rule flexibility), then I'd insist on no more than top 4 protection.

Not only does this upgrade Miami's backcourt, but it save them a whopping 9.8M in salary which nearly gets them out of the luxury tax. It will save them something like $30M in salary and tax payments.

That would be an awesome trade!

I wish I liked Jovic better....

What if it were Jaquez instead? & they can give us a couple of R2 picks instead of the R1?

payitforward wrote:I wish I liked Jovic better....

What if it were Jaquez instead? & they can give us a couple of R2 picks instead of the R1?

There’s zero chance they give up Jaquez. They wouldn’t trade him for Bilal.

nate33 wrote:

payitforward wrote:

pcbothwel wrote:The Mavs seem to be sniffing, but they can only trade their 2026 pick outright at their 2024 and 2029 picks are already gone.
Maybe a Kuz & Gaff for Lively & 2026 1st (Hardaway & Holmes as filler) could be interesting… but it feels light and they can’t deal another pick.

Whooaaah -- I'd do that trade in a minute! But they are NOT trading Dereck Lively, who looks like an absolutely terrific young player.

Yeah, I can't figure out a trade that makes sense.

The core would be Kuzma for Hardaway and a FRP. But that's not enough for Kuzma, and it leaves us very lopsided with about 19 shooting guards and only Deni at PF. They could throw in Josh Green to try and bring the value in line, but that's yet another SG.

What if we gave them Jordan Poole in exchange for Grant Williams? Eh. As much as I'd like to unload Poole, we're going to have enough trouble as it is getting up to the salary floor. If we dump Poole we're just going to have to overpay some free agent anyhow.

The 1st, Grant Williams, we eat Holmes's contract and maybe try to rehab him in return for Kuzma is the best I can come up with. Add an OMax, Hardy, or Green thrown in for our equivalent bottom of benchers (Delon Wright, Anthony Gill, etc.) in some fashion if you can work it but that would be the bones of it. The 1st would be top 4 protected.