OT: Shaq to Phoenix more than a rumor

[Rafael122]

I find it hilarious that Marion wanted out so bad. Dude got $17 million this year, playing on one of the best teams in the NBA. So he got his wish and gets sent to the 9-37 Miami Heat. Title contender to lottery team. Hilarious.

[Wiz99]

3/4 of America thinks the Shaq trade was dumb for Phoenix. It's a gamble, for sure, but I think its exactly the right kind of gamble to make.

1. Phoenix has been knocked out of the Western Conference finals 2x in the past 3 years by San Antonio, and ran into Dallas the other year. Say what you want about bogus technicals last year, the simple unassailable fact is THIS SUNS TEAM HAS NOT GOTTEN OVER THE HUMP. Period. Full stop. Let's not talk shoulda coulda woulda because that's just la la land. Back in the great state of reality, the Suns are reasonable for thinking they are close but need to shake it up to throw San Antonio (or the Lakers or New Orleans) a different pitch this year.

2. This is the classic "win now" move. Nash is 34, Hill is 36. They depend too much on these two guys to ignore that their window is probably 1-2 years wide. I grant that a trade for Gasol made more sense, but for whatever reason it didn't happen. Again, I'm not playing shoulda coulda woulda: just judging the Shaq trade on its own merits. Will it work for Phoenix. I can easily see a highly motivated Shaq giving 125% through a 20 game campaign in the playoffs.

3. All the talk about their cheap owner? This guy's gonna make money off of Shaq jersey sales and other merchandise.

4. In fact, the trade puts the Suns in a position where they could be $30 mil under the cap in 2009. They take their shot this year and next, and then if they decline the team option on a 36 year old Nash and move Shaq's ginormous expiring $20 mil deal, they are sitting pretty to start rebuilding. Guess who comes available in 2009: Kobe. Or if they wait a year, they can go after Lebron or Wade (who have player options in 2010).

I think this deal makes a lot of sense, both as a win now strategy inside the 1-2 year window Nash and Hill have, it's at least cash neutral on added salary vs merchandise sales, and it puts the Suns in a spot to have $30 mil to immediately rebuild in 2009 or 2010.

[Wizards2Lottery]

Marion seems like the whiny type who'd rather have the spotlight than a winning record. I wouldn't want him on the Wizards.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think Marion deeply resented all the attention 2-time MVP Nash and dunking machine Stoudemire got.

Marion produced MVP numbers the year Stoudemire was out but Shawn didn't get MVP consideration, Nash did.

Marion's a great defender and a good offensive player. I think he's going to really help Miami. They got the better end of the deal.

I can't see the Suns having the quickness to reverse the ravages of time on Shaq. Unless O'Neal's been sandbagging, he's a not the force on the boards or defensively they need to outgrind teams in the playoffs.

[nate33]

I really, really want Marion in a Wizards uniform.

Have I mentioned this before?

[Rafael122]

I don't get Phoenix management. Every year, they sell their first round pick, a guy who will make less than $1 million a year, only for them to sign a Marcus Banks type for $5 million a year or adding salary by trading for Shaq. I don't understand it.

[nate33]

They actually saved a little salary ($400K) in the Shaq trade. They save about $2M next year. It'll cost them $15M in the following year but they have some other contracts coming off the books then so they might avoid the luxtax.

[LyricalRico]

Maybe there's hope for Shaq to actually last the next 2.5 years in Phoenix:

Key to this whole deal is whether the Suns' medical staff, thought to be along with the Pistons the best not only in the NBA but perhaps in team sports when it comes to corrective medicine, can do for Shaq what it has done for Antonio McDyess's knees, Steve Nash's back and Grant Hill's ankle. The Suns' medical staff actually worked with Shaq on Wednesday, specifically his bothersome hips, and O'Neal was said to be stunned at the increased flexibility he enjoyed so quickly.

Wilbon's whole article

*Sigh*

It must be SO nice to have a competent medical staff.

[Ruzious]

I think Marion deeply resented all the attention 2-time MVP Nash and dunking machine Stoudemire got.

Marion produced MVP numbers the year Stoudemire was out but Shawn didn't get MVP consideration, Nash did.

Marion's a great defender and a good offensive player. I think he's going to really help Miami. They got the better end of the deal.

I can't see the Suns having the quickness to reverse the ravages of time on Shaq. Unless O'Neal's been sandbagging, he's a not the force on the boards or defensively they need to outgrind teams in the playoffs.

Agreed on all points. I also think Marion was unhappy that they didn't seem all that thrilled about re-signing him. It wasn't just fans that treated him as the 3rd wheel; it was management.

[Wiz99]

Not a lot more to say on this. I think we all have to wait to see how it turns out. I'd hate to hear people bagging on this trade the first time Shaq's out there and doesn't throw down 20 and 10 (though the haters probably will). The only way to test this is when the Suns run into the Spurs and Lakers in the playoffs.

If Shaq helps them get past them, Kerr is a genius.
If they still fail to surmount the hurdle, Kerr looks like an idiot.

I personally think this is gonna work, but I'm in a minority. Interesting to read in Wilbon's article, though, that Byron Scott thinks this can work just like a 40 year old Kareem did with the Showtime Lakers (of which Byron was a part). They run with 4 whenever they can, but when they need to slow it down, Kareem always commanded a doubleteam, freeing up shooters like Byron Scott or slashers like Worthy.

[MJG]

Huge difference between those old Lakers and the new Suns: the Lakers did not trade an All-NBA caliber player for Kareem. I don't think anyone would be calling the Suns crazy if, say, the Suns added Shaq as a free agent to their existing team. It's the act of giving away Marion for Shaq that moves the deal from "Huh, I don't know if he'll fit well with them" to "What a f'n stupid move".

[Wiz99]

Well, one thing we can probably agree on is Boris Diaw and Brian Skinner just became more important. They'll be the deciding factor on whether the Suns are fighting with 6 men from here on out, or a legit 8-man rotation,

And whether they can handle any Shaq injury eruptions during the rest of the regular season (I expect the suns will do everything they can to keep Shaq fresh for the playoffs).

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

I really, really want Marion in a Wizards uniform.

Have I mentioned this before?

I kind of feel the same way... but, I've got a bit of an udgy feeling about his attitude. To play in that offense, getting dished to by Steve Nash, getting paid what he gets paid, being consistently voted to the All-Star game and living in a nice place like Phoenix... and still be disgruntled.

Do you think there is anything Abe and Co. could/would do to keep him a happy camper here?

[fishercob]

-= original quote snipped =-



I kind of feel the same way... but, I've got a bit of an udgy feeling about his attitude. To play in that offense, getting dished to by Steve Nash, getting paid what he gets paid, being consistently voted to the All-Star game and living in a nice place like Phoenix... and still be disgruntled.

Do you think there is anything Abe and Co. could/would do to keep him a happy camper here?

Don't underestimate the power of t-shirts and cake as reward for making the playoffs.

[jmrosenth]

-= original quote snipped =-



I kind of feel the same way... but, I've got a bit of an udgy feeling about his attitude. To play in that offense, getting dished to by Steve Nash, getting paid what he gets paid, being consistently voted to the All-Star game and living in a nice place like Phoenix... and still be disgruntled.

Good points...and didn't he say at one point that he'd have to think about whether he'd rather be the man on a .500 team or just one guy on a contender?

[Induveca]

3/4 of America thinks the Shaq trade was dumb for Phoenix. It's a gamble, for sure, but I think its exactly the right kind of gamble to make.

1. Phoenix has been knocked out of the Western Conference finals 2x in the past 3 years by San Antonio, and ran into Dallas the other year. Say what you want about bogus technicals last year, the simple unassailable fact is THIS SUNS TEAM HAS NOT GOTTEN OVER THE HUMP. Period. Full stop. Let's not talk shoulda coulda woulda because that's just la la land. Back in the great state of reality, the Suns are reasonable for thinking they are close but need to shake it up to throw San Antonio (or the Lakers or New Orleans) a different pitch this year.

2. This is the classic "win now" move. Nash is 34, Hill is 36. They depend too much on these two guys to ignore that their window is probably 1-2 years wide. I grant that a trade for Gasol made more sense, but for whatever reason it didn't happen. Again, I'm not playing shoulda coulda woulda: just judging the Shaq trade on its own merits. Will it work for Phoenix. I can easily see a highly motivated Shaq giving 125% through a 20 game campaign in the playoffs.

3. All the talk about their cheap owner? This guy's gonna make money off of Shaq jersey sales and other merchandise.

4. In fact, the trade puts the Suns in a position where they could be $30 mil under the cap in 2009. They take their shot this year and next, and then if they decline the team option on a 36 year old Nash and move Shaq's ginormous expiring $20 mil deal, they are sitting pretty to start rebuilding. Guess who comes available in 2009: Kobe. Or if they wait a year, they can go after Lebron or Wade (who have player options in 2010).

I think this deal makes a lot of sense, both as a win now strategy inside the 1-2 year window Nash and Hill have, it's at least cash neutral on added salary vs merchandise sales, and it puts the Suns in a spot to have $30 mil to immediately rebuild in 2009 or 2010.

I have thought exactly the same as you as soon as I heard about the deal. I think it makes perfect sense for Phoenix, great gamble. They are going for a ring while they have a shot. Ballsy move by Kerr, but one that could actually work.

[Induveca]

I really, really want Marion in a Wizards uniform.

Have I mentioned this before?

Would be nice.........just can't see it happening.

[Induveca]

Huge difference between those old Lakers and the new Suns: the Lakers did not trade an All-NBA caliber player for Kareem. I don't think anyone would be calling the Suns crazy if, say, the Suns added Shaq as a free agent to their existing team. It's the act of giving away Marion for Shaq that moves the deal from "Huh, I don't know if he'll fit well with them" to "What a f'n stupid move".

Marion's a great player, but they are stacked with great players. Fact of the matter is, they have been getting nowhere in the playoffs for years now. Status quo wasn't working, now teams will be adjusting to them instead of vice versa come playoff time.

7 game series always gave opponents a chance to slow down the Suns and force them into a halfcourt set. This makes the Suns matchup nightmares no matter what they do now.

[Wiz99]

-= original quote snipped =-



Marion's a great player, but they are stacked with great players. Fact of the matter is, they have been getting nowhere in the playoffs for years now. Status quo wasn't working, now teams will be adjusting to them instead of vice versa come playoff time.

7 game series always gave opponents a chance to slow down the Suns and force them into a halfcourt set. This makes the Suns matchup nightmares no matter what they do now.

Yah, I think this move is really about having better offensive chances in a half-court, slow-it -down 7 game series. Shaq is still very very good on the offensive end. He's still a beast anywhere near the rim. He's a good passer out of the doubleteam (having had 2 and 3 guys run at him every time he touches the ball for the last 10 years).

Most important, he still commands a doubleteam on offense, and if the Suns learn how to take advantage of that, they will be very dangerous in the halfcourt game that all playoff games seem to descend into.

[VictorPage44]

obviously I could be wrong, but this could work out very well for Pheonix. Having Shaq AND stoudemire in the playoffs will be very important. I think they could play an upgraded style of Hornets offense (rosters are very similar except pheonix is slighlty better at every position in terms of talent and light years ahead in terms of experience).

Giving Nash two of the best finishers (maybe the two best) in the league and a bunch of three point shooters is a good idea IMO. Assuming that Pheonix cant win without running is poor judgment. They play efficient defense and can cause mismatches by going small (nash and barbosa) or with the post presense of (Shaq and Amare). Plus the other players are good three point shooters and defenders.