What does this team need to get to the next level? ('Ship)

[nate33]

if you want to win a championship you need interior defense. im sorry but do you think teams fear jamison and haywood. thats one of the softest frontcourt combos in the league next to okur/boozer. ALL O AND NO D!!!!. im not saying you need both guys to be defensive minded but at least one.

Name 5 centers who play better defense than Haywood.

[daboywonder2002]

are you kidding me?

1. camby. 2. dalembert. 3. dwight howard. 4. rasheed wallace(he is a pf/c). 5. kaman. and just to let you know. defense is not just about blocks. you also consider man to man defense. rebounds, offense boards, setting screens.

6. yao ming 7. tyson chandler. and i would say bogut according to numbers. but i havent seen enough bucks games to really make a statement on that

[Kanyewest]

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Name 5 centers who play better defense than Haywood.

Marcus Camby
Dwight Howard
Tyson Chandler
Samuel Dalembert
Yao Ming (when healthy)
Alonzo Mourning (when healthy)
Dikembe Mutumbo

[fugop]

In thinking about all this stuff, the real challenge is in figuring out what it takes to win a championship without a top big. The path to a championship is easy to see if you've got a Duncan or Garnett, or maybe Howard. But even guys like Stoudamire and Bosh won't automatically make a team a contender.

What does it take to win a championship with a third tier big? The past three teams to have accomplished it, the Pistons twice and the Bulls, provide the relevant evidence, two defenders and sublime swing man play. Unless we do (or have) lucked into a crazy PF, I think that's the direction we have to go.

Realistically, we'd probably need to add a guy like Josh Howard to our backcourt to get to the level of swing man play we'd need to contend, though there's a chance Young could develop into that guy. A legit two way player with size and athleticism.

We'd need a defensive power forward, Camby or Kirilenko is the type of guy, more a help defender than man, as I think Haywood is good enough there. Again, Blatche may develop into that, but I'd honestly put the odds of it happening at about 10%.

[daboywonder2002]

i hope you arent talking bout the 2004 pistons cause that team had 2 awesome big men. rasheed wallace was and is one of the best low post defenders and ben wallace was defensive player of the year. they may not have been duncan or kg. but as far as big men combos. it doesnt get any better than the wallace boys!!

[keynote]

I nominate keynote for underrated poster of the year. What he lacks in quantity he makes up in quality.

Nice couple of posts today keynote! You are on fiyah!

Even on the hardwood, I've always been a streaky shooter.

Anyway, thanks for the props. I lurk more than I post; and I can safely rely on the posters here to provide the best and most thorough analysis of Wizards ball available anywhere.

[fugop]

i hope you arent talking bout the 2004 pistons cause that team had 2 awesome big men. rasheed wallace was and is one of the best low post defenders and ben wallace was defensive player of the year. they may not have been duncan or kg. but as far as big men combos. it doesnt get any better than the wallace boys!!

Thos eguys are not "awesome big men." They are good defenders, and Rasheed has a versatile, unique, sporadic, and erratice offensive game. Wallace can crash the offensive boards. Look at how many teams those guys bounced around to, discarded not because they demanded out, but because it wasn't clear they were worth anything. They aren't the type of frontline that allows a "traditional" championship option; there's not a lot of room to dispute that fact.

And Haywood is a better defender than either Kaman or Howard in you list. I would have added that man defense counts too (where Haywood obviously exceeds those two), but you graciously obliged.

[keynote]

are you kidding me?

1. camby. 2. dalembert.

I take it Dalembert's #2 on your list 'cause your from Wilmington, DE.

Actually, I'm sort of on the fence with Dalembert. Like BTH, he's the kind of player that fans of other teams don't pay attention to, except for when he's playing against their team. At the beginning of the game, fans are presuming that their Big can win that match up. More often than not, Dale/BTH has a bigger impact than they expect--but never enough of an impact to truly shake their reputation of being an average to below average player.

Right or wrong, I think of Dalembert as a weak-side shotblocker. Is he a strong post defender as well? Most folks on this board agree that BTH's true defensive strength lies in his ability to defend the post without requiring a double-team; he more than holds his own against the dominant post scorers in the league (ask Dwight what he thinks of BTH's post defense).

I'd amend Nate's statement to submit that Brendan is arguably top 5 in post defense. He's probably about top 10-15 in terms of weak-side D. He doesn't clear the defensive glass as well as some of the other top-flight defensive Cs, which might keep him out of the top 10 on defense overall.

[daboywonder2002]

you know what. it wasnt really in any order. it was just who came to find first. im thinking when you penetrate in the line, who do you fear? and lets say with the sixers run. sammy d is anchoring the interior.

[nate33]

are you kidding me?

1. camby. 2. dalembert. 3. dwight howard. 4. rasheed wallace(he is a pf/c). 5. kaman. and just to let you know. defense is not just about blocks. you also consider man to man defense. rebounds, offense boards, setting screens.

6. yao ming 7. tyson chandler. and i would say bogut according to numbers. but i havent seen enough bucks games to really make a statement on that

Camby is better. Yao is probably better.

Haywood is definitely a better defender than Howard and Kaman.

Haywood is about equal to Dalembert, Chandler and Wallace. Each have their strengths and weaknesses. Dalembert and Chandler are better help defenders, while Haywood is a better post defender. Haywood is a better interior defender than Wallace, but Wallace has the ability to guard out on the wings. Wallace is certainly more versatile, but I consider Haywood a better defender at the center position.

[hands11]

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That's a little too circular. The theory states that virtually every championship team had an all-time great; then the media reserves the upper echelon of "all time greats" for those players who won a ring (with very few exceptions). Without those 4 rings, Duncan's career starts to look more like Patrick Ewing's--only Ewing never played with a supporting cast as strong as Duncan's.

I look at the Miami championship team and, while you've generously listed Shaq as the superstar on that roster, it was Wade who was clearly the MVP of that team. After Wade's playoff performance that year, I'd argue that it became acceptable for Wade to be talked about as a future HOFer. But is Wade truly in the class of MJ, Magic, etc.? No--or at least, certainly not yet.

If the Wizards get hot and healthy and craft a sudden run in the playoffs towards a ring (like the Dream's Rockets, coming from the 6th seed, if memory serves), then Arenas might get "all-time great" status thrust upon him as well. But that tends to happen after the rings are won--not before.

Sorry, GA is a good player but he no way belongs on that list.

Also notice that most the people listed at SF/PF or Center.

[GetInMyBelly]

really, i'd like to see them get through a whole season healthy. i know there'll be bumps and bruises, but the past two years we've had guys out for loooong periods of time.

of course, we'll never see this team 100% healthy cause i doubt arenas will be 100% this year. oh, he might play, but he won't be gilbert until next year...i hope it's in a wiz uniform.

[Induveca]

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Name 5 centers who play better defense than Haywood.

Nate, agreed Haywood plays solid defense. However, he isn't enough. Even WizKev has pointed out something I have for years now, we need an enforcer down low who will grab boards and foul people hard.

Haywood plays D almost by default, he is just very long. Now if you took 20% of Charles Oakley's attitude and fused it to Haywood's he would be the kind of defender we need. We need a guy to get in people's heads.

[hands11]

Well, Songaila and Mason as filling a few holes this team had.

Now what we are missing a little more quickness and a little more muscle.

The quickness will come in the form of GA. Even off 2 knee injuries he will be faster then AD or DS.

Etan could provide the extra muscle. Though I haven't heard anything new about Etan.

Mostly when teams are getting over on us it's because we don't have enough quickness with our starter or we are losing in the paint.

Get those 2 things back and this is a very well rounded team of youngs, vets, bigs, 3 ballers, post banger and quicks.

[TheKingOfVa360]

Guys Yao Ming is not a good defender at all even ask Rockets fans. He is a solid defender and not better than Haywood so please stop saying that.

[Kanyewest]

Guys Yao Ming is not a good defender at all even ask Rockets fans. He is a solid defender and not better than Haywood so please stop saying that.

He's not skilled . He's just so damn tall that he changes shots on the defensive end.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Back to the question of what the Wizards need to go to the next level, I notice now over the last 10 games the Wizards are the best in the east at 8-2 (and only the Suns match that in the west).

It will take quite a finish, but the Wizards trail Cleveland by 2 games with 10 to play. If Washington wins 7 games and can get fourth, that will be huge.

A fourth place finish would give home court and a better chance to advance in the playoffs.

I think the Wizards need to win 2 rounds in the playoffs to cement their future next season as the top team in the east. Detroit is getting old and I don't think Rasheed's going to hold it together throughout the playoffs.

If Washington can do well in these playoffs, it really makes signing Jamison and Gilbert easier.

As it is, the better they play this last 10 games the better that bodes for their future.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

nate responded, but post must have been removed.


I don't see the Wizards staying this hot, either. LAL and UT back-to-back could easily be 2 losses right there. I said 7-3 because that's the BEST I could hope for, even if that's optimistic.

As for Cleveland, today they play at Detroit and I see that being nearly a must win for Detroit. They do have something to play for.

Next, tomorrrow the Cavs have a home game against Philly. That will be a tough game.

(If lightning should strike and the Wizards beat both the Lakcer and Jazz, while the Cavs drop two; then they'd be tied.)

Continuing on with Cleveland's remaining opponents, they next play at Charlotte. Bobcats have won two in a row out west.

Then Cleveland has a TNT game at home against Chicago. Gooden, Hughes, and Noah get fired up going against Cleveland with Big Ben. I've seen the Bulls beat the Cavs since the trade.

Next,t he Bulls have a home game against Orlando. The Magic might have nothing to play for, but still, Howard will play his best against Lebron and you can bet having to guard Hedo or Rashard will at least keep James honest.

Those are just the next week's games, nate.

I think 7-3 WILL be enough, because Cleveland's got a tough road ahead.

[nate33]

nate responded, but post must have been removed.

Yeah, WTF? Basically, I said that Cleveland (and Toronto and Philly) will finish strong.

The reason is that everybody plays just EC teams down the stretch. Only about 6 EC teams have anything to play for (us, Cleveland, Toronto, Philly, New Jersey, Atlanta). Pretty much every other game should be a guaranteed win. I figure Cleveland will go, at worst, 6-4 in their last 10 games. They'll probably do better.

[Davekn]

I know that this has been beaten to death already but defense wins championships and this team simply doesn't play playoff defense. Another huge hole for years now has been low post scoring. It's hard to win consistently without getting easy baskets on the blocs.