playoff playing time

[hands11]

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I agree that he's ready to contribute, but that doesn't mean that it makes a lick of sense to replace an all-star in the starting lineup with him after an 82 game regular season.

You say he needs to be given a chance as if he hasn't. He's been the primary backup center and part-time backup PF all year. He's started games at both positions. I don't know why starting him now would suddenly make him more consistent.

There was a time last season when I advocated starting Blatche over Stevenson, and moving Caron to G. I loved the Big 3's O with the length and defense of AB and BTH together.

It makes less sense now. Deshawn has emerged as an important perimeter defender. Plus, depth and center is an issue. You can't rail against EJ for going small too often and then ask Songaila to be the backup center. Bringing Blatche off the bench ensures well always have a shotblocker on the floor.

I do share your sentiment a little bit about "too much talent." but that's a good problem and one that should be addressed in the offseason. If we can consolidate two or three players in to one high-impact one, we could be really good.

I never said start AB right now leading into or in the playoffs.

[Wizardspride]

I think and hope that we will be adding Etan
to the rotation soon. Just heard EJ say that all
13 players practiced and will be ready for
the playoffs.

I'm not expecting much from Etan due to
conditioning but we shall see.

[fishercob]

From today's Post

"We want to get our top eight guys in sync, and if there is a top nine, our top nine guys to play well together," Jordan said. "I want Gil to play with Darius [Songaila], I want different lineups [and] our top eight or nine rotation guys to really get a part of it and get that chemistry down. That's what we're looking at" down the stretch.

"No matter who is not playing we still want to go in with our rotation guys," Jordan said. "If we had eight guys, nine guys all year and we had a good flow, we had a good thing going, maybe I don't play those guys. But now that Gil's in the mix we need to get him in the mix and playing with everybody, all different types of combinations."

So EJ says an 8-9 man rotation. So that's the starting 5, Gil, and Songaila for sure. I think Blatche is #8, and the possible ninth is likely Mason. Young, McGuire, Pech and Etan wave dem towels.

[hands11]

From today's Post

"We want to get our top eight guys in sync, and if there is a top nine, our top nine guys to play well together," Jordan said. "I want Gil to play with Darius [Songaila], I want different lineups [and] our top eight or nine rotation guys to really get a part of it and get that chemistry down. That's what we're looking at" down the stretch.

"No matter who is not playing we still want to go in with our rotation guys," Jordan said. "If we had eight guys, nine guys all year and we had a good flow, we had a good thing going, maybe I don't play those guys. But now that Gil's in the mix we need to get him in the mix and playing with everybody, all different types of combinations."

So EJ says an 8-9 man rotation. So that's the starting 5, Gil, and Songaila for sure. I think Blatche is #8, and the possible ninth is likely Mason. Young, McGuire, Pech and Etan wave dem towels.

If you bring back Etan, there is no room for OP.

I read what he is saying as that he will have a core rotation but will use everyone as needed. What we can get done down the stretch will help us see what is available.

Again, for the first round, I wouldn't change what's working. The different talent we have creates different looks and match up problems, plus keeps players rested.

AD, DS, CB, AJ, BH - starters
GA, RM, Songaila, AB - that makes the top 9

NY - on the bubble regarding how much we use him. I like him listed in this second line. I think NY and AB running with GA is dangerous.

GA, RM, NY, Songaila, AB

He isn't counting NY in this group but hope he is used. I really think the kid can play focused given what these games mean. This isn't early in the year playing regular games. He gets the seriousness of these games. I think NY will be the surprise this playoff run. He will be used and he will produce which will lead to him being used more. That give you 10 players.

Reserves: DMAC and Etan They will get the least minutes but I think in the right situations, they can contribute also.

Again, I have no problem with seeing anyone on this team on the court. This team has no dogs. But line ups and play calling will be key.

[fishercob]

I think what EJ was saying is if Gilbert weren't back right now, he wouldn't play such a tight rotation for these final five games . Rather, he'd play more guys in an effort to not overwork his top guys down the stretch.

But with Gil back, it's important to get him in sync with the top seven-- perhaps eight -- other guys that Eddie is going to use in the playoffs. I think you'll see a bit of Mason, but not much if any of Young.

[charlie32]

Mason and Blatche are borderline. And, because other teams shorten their rotations, they wouldn't get to go against opposing bench as much -- they'd be facing topline players.

I disagree. Mason has been solid all year (unfortunately his lapses against Chicago late in the 4th Saturday night are going to leave a sour taste in EJ's mouth) but IMO he should definitely be in the playoff rotation. As for Blatche, I think he's going to get all of Haywood's backup minutes unless he proves to be a liability. I hope and believe that EJ has seen the light and will not play Songalia at center. DSong will get his minutes when Jamison sits and also play the 4 when AJ slides to the 3 to spell Butler.

[fifthstop]

I think we'll see some Mase simply because Coach seems to trust RMjr's judgement more than N1's. With EJ, confidence in a player's judgement seems key. Hence Ruffin until he proved beyond a shadow of doubt to suck. Mason will be #9 unless EJ finds the team flat-footed and down 15 in the 2nd and in need of a spark. That's N1's role. Nothing against Nick, it's just that he's a rookie, as he's been made all too painfully aware.

[Bex]

The stats might proof me wrong, but I never really liked a backcourt of AD and Gil and I'm afraid that will see lots in the postseason. My problem: Agent 0 will always be the main ballhandler, consequently Antonio has to play off the ball. However, he isn't a true threat from the perimeter and won't shoot a high percentage. In addition, one of both has to guard a two-guard which is a bad idea, considering that neither one is a real solid defender. (AD's defense is generally overrated IMO and he has become old. On the other hand, Gil, well, we really don't know yet)

Therefore I would suggest: Playing either one of both, but never at the same time. As shooting guard either DeShawn or Nick/Roger - I would prefer the latter. Very solid defense, few turnovers, more experience and a reliable outside shot.

[nate33]

The stats might proof me wrong, but I never really liked a backcourt of AD and Gil and I'm afraid that will see lots in the postseason.

FWIW, the stats do indeed prove you wrong.

Last year, the Arenas/AD pairing was actually better than any other Arenas pairing when looking at all pairings with more than 400 minutes of game time. Arenas/AD together were +7 per 48 minutes. For comparison, Arenas/Stevenson was just +1 per 48 minutes. (It's worth noting however, that Arenas/Mason was very successful (+12) but the sample size was so small (140 minutes) that the numbers aren't all that credible.)

In the year before that, the same pattern holds. The Arenas/Daniels pairing was more effective than ANY Arenas combination, regardless of sample size.

Of course, part of this could be attibuted to the fact that the Arenas/Daniels combo often took place against the opponent's second-string players.

[LyricalRico]

I think what EJ was saying is if Gilbert weren't back right now, he wouldn't play such a tight rotation for these final five games . Rather, he'd play more guys in an effort to not overwork his top guys down the stretch.

But with Gil back, it's important to get him in sync with the top seven-- perhaps eight -- other guys that Eddie is going to use in the playoffs. I think you'll see a bit of Mason, but not much if any of Young.

I'll buy that. Not a bad idea at all.

I do think that it's only going to be 8 guys. The whole "8, maybe 9" stuff is probably to get Blatche and Young to play harder to see if they can earn some minutes. If they do, great. But if not I don't think EJ was planning on using them anyway.

The only problem with that is that with Etan out and Blatche benched, we'll likely see lots of Songaila and even Jamison at center. That, of course, will mean Caron at the 4 and Stevenson at the 3, so Mason is likely the 8th guy in EJ's rotation.

I don't like it. I'd much rather put up with Blatche's fouls/turnovers than go small.

[DCZards]

The stats might proof me wrong, but I never really liked a backcourt of AD and Gil and I'm afraid that will see lots in the postseason. My problem: Agent 0 will always be the main ballhandler, consequently Antonio has to play off the ball.

Actually, AD is usually the main ballhandler when he and GA are in the backcourt together. AD brings the ball up and Gil gets to play SG, which I personally like since AD is less turnover prone and more patient than GA.

[fishercob]

-= original quote snipped =-



I'll buy that. Not a bad idea at all.

I do think that it's only going to be 8 guys. The whole "8, maybe 9" stuff is probably to get Blatche and Young to play harder to see if they can earn some minutes. If they do, great. But if not I don't think EJ was planning on using them anyway.

The only problem with that is that with Etan out and Blatche benched, we'll likely see lots of Songaila and even Jamison at center. That, of course, will mean Caron at the 4 and Stevenson at the 3, so Mason is likely the 8th guy in EJ's rotation.

I don't like it. I'd much rather put up with Blatche's fouls/turnovers than go small.

I don't think Blatche is benched in the sense that he's out of the rotation. I think he's one of the top 8, and the 9th is Mason. if Blatche is out of the rotation and Songaila is the backup center, we're in trouble.

[hands11]

The stats might proof me wrong, but I never really liked a backcourt of AD and Gil and I'm afraid that will see lots in the postseason. My problem: Agent 0 will always be the main ballhandler, consequently Antonio has to play off the ball. However, he isn't a true threat from the perimeter and won't shoot a high percentage. In addition, one of both has to guard a two-guard which is a bad idea, considering that neither one is a real solid defender. (AD's defense is generally overrated IMO and he has become old. On the other hand, Gil, well, we really don't know yet)

Therefore I would suggest: Playing either one of both, but never at the same time. As shooting guard either DeShawn or Nick/Roger - I would prefer the latter. Very solid defense, few turnovers, more experience and a reliable outside shot.

I'm with that. The only way you want AD and GA on the floor together is if GA were playing 40 mins and you want him on the court but coasting. AD would be the PG in a slower paced game with GA being used as a pure SG where he hits 3s and drives some.

With GA only getting 20 mins, there is no reason to have him in there with AD. When GA is in, he should be handling the ball and we should be running with players that can keep up and fill the remaining roles of SG, SF, PF and C.

Against Miami Gil ran with
http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gamef ... ame=MIAWAS

GA, DS, CB, Songaila, AB +5
GA, RM, DMAC, AB, BH +5
GA, NY, CB, Songaila, BH +6
GA, DS, CB, AB, BH +3
GA, NY, CB, OP, AB -5
GA, DS, CB, AB, BH +3


GA ran most his minutes with CB and AB. The few he ran with
NY - GA, NY, CB, Songaila, BH +6 were very productive.

He actually ran a lot of AB with BH and GA. Seems to have worked nicely.
I think in part because AB can motor up and down the court and GA was making amazing passes. That leaves you with 2 bigs, one who can play safety and one who can run.

[fishercob]

1. Much as some choose to ignore it, the Wizards don't have "traditional" position definitions on offense. They use 2 guards, 2 forwards and a center. That's part of the reason that they have been able to stay afloat with injuries to Arenas and Daniels; the offensive system isn't predicated on a point guard breaking down the defense and creating for others.

2. Miami is so bad, that I don't think you can extrapolate much of use from the Wiz's win over them.

[hands11]

1. Much as some choose to ignore it, the Wizards don't have "traditional" position definitions on offense. They use 2 guards, 2 forwards and a center. That's part of the reason that they have been able to stay afloat with injuries to Arenas and Daniels; the offensive system isn't predicated on a point guard breaking down the defense and creating for others.

2. Miami is so bad, that I don't think you can extrapolate much of use from the Wiz's win over them.

I think what your missing is that even though that may be true sometimes, it's not true all the time.

We run EJs offense a lot more with AD, DS, CB, AJ, and BH and even with that line up, AD plays a huge part in starting the offense and the tempo.

But when GA is in the game and we are running a lot more so we don't run the offense as much. GA plays a up tempo transition PG with long outlet passes and quick transition passes to trailing players. It's only if he can't fast break or take a quick open shot that we get back into the offense.

How good Miami is takes nothing away from the PG mentality GA had in that game and the amazing passes he made. He was truly playing like a PG looking to get his teammates involved and filling in as needed. That is what I and others have been calling for. This was in stark contrast to the previous game he played. It should be interesting to see which style he plays tonight. I think he will continue to pass more and his assists per 40 will keep going up.

Not only is this what the team needs but I think GA is understanding that this is what will get him to top player status again. As Phil said, a great pass is a pretty as a great shot. Look who has been in the MVP race or won it recently recently. I'll keep saying it because I believe it's true. It's a CP style game that GA need to develop. They are the best of the West and CP leads them there.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Maybe it's just me (well, fishercob seems to agree, so maybe it's just the two of us), but I (we) wouldn't put much stock in anything that happened against Miami.

To recap Miami's season -- 14 wins, 64 losses. They rank 30th on the offensive end and 25th on defense. In that game against the Wizards, the Heat didn't use a single player with a PER higher than Chris Quinn's 13.9. The league average PER is 15.0. The Heat are terrible -- no competition at all.

Maybe there's a PG mentality Gil had in that game. Maybe it's something he'll bring into other games. My hope is that Gil doesn't worry about pigeon-holing himself into one kind of mentality -- be it "gotta score" or be it this so-called "PG mentality". I want him to just play. Score when it's needed, pass when it's needed -- do what's needed without a bunch of preconceived notions. Without saying, "I'm going to be a passer for these 8 minutes and then I'll score". Without saying, "I'm going to set up my teammates and not look to shoot." Without saying, "I'm going to score a bunch of points because they can't stop me." Just play.

[DCZards]

We run EJs offense a lot more with AD, DS, CB, AJ, and BH and even with that line up, AD plays a huge part in starting the offense and the tempo.

But when GA is in the game and we are running a lot more so we don't run the offense as much. GA plays a up tempo transition PG with long outlet passes and quick transition passes to trailing players. It's only if he can't fast break or take a quick open shot that we get back into the offense.

I prefer it when the team is running the offense, even when GA is in the game. Just about every Zard player has credited what they've called "the system" for whatever success they've had this year despite the absence of their best player--Agent Zero.

If the fast-break is there, great. However, I like it when GA sticks with the offense rather than taking that quick open shot. Agent Zero's scoring stats may suffer, but, imo, that's the way to go--and win.

I guess that's why I like AD out there (with GA) at crunch time, running the offense and getting people organized. As history has shown, teams have a way of taking away a lot of the fast breaking during the playoffs, forcing their opponents to play much more half-court offense.

[hands11]

Maybe it's just me (well, fishercob seems to agree, so maybe it's just the two of us), but I (we) wouldn't put much stock in anything that happened against Miami.

To recap Miami's season -- 14 wins, 64 losses. They rank 30th on the offensive end and 25th on defense. In that game against the Wizards, the Heat didn't use a single player with a PER higher than Chris Quinn's 13.9. The league average PER is 15.0. The Heat are terrible -- no competition at all.

Maybe there's a PG mentality Gil had in that game. Maybe it's something he'll bring into other games. My hope is that Gil doesn't worry about pigeon-holing himself into one kind of mentality -- be it "gotta score" or be it this so-called "PG mentality". I want him to just play. Score when it's needed, pass when it's needed -- do what's needed without a bunch of preconceived notions. Without saying, "I'm going to be a passer for these 8 minutes and then I'll score". Without saying, "I'm going to set up my teammates and not look to shoot." Without saying, "I'm going to score a bunch of points because they can't stop me." Just play.

We are almost on the same page. I think this ultra fluid GA you describe is a little bit of a pipe dream though. Not that he wouldn't and couldn't play that way but that that style would actually be good for the team.

You are almost describing what I call a PG except you don't seem to want there to be any rhyme or reason to it. Just whatever GA wants to do is fine. Well that doesn't take into consideration there is team of players and they also need to know what to expect so they can know their roles. GA playing your style I believe has a lot to do with what some have described as players standing around watching GA. I don't blame them if someone is playing that style why run all over the place for nothing specially if you have no idea what to expect.

I do agree GA shouldn't come out to score 50 in a game but I don't agree he shouldn't try to get his teammates involved as his first move. But once he starts doing that he should definitely keep the D honest by scoring himself. This is what keeps team off balance and creates more space for everyone to score and keeps your teammates heads in the game. This is EJs mantra so anyone that likes EJ should be on board with this.

Help your teammates because that helps you. Share the ball. CB showed us what that looks like. All I'm saying is I want GA to play that same unselfish style because I think that makes us a better team and we will win more games. I'm saying at least I saw him doing it against Miami. It matter very little that they suck. What matters is that he was doing it.

[hands11]

-= original quote snipped =-



I prefer it when the team is running the offense, even when GA is in the game. Just about every Zard player has credited what they've called "the system" for whatever success they've had this year despite the absence of their best player--Agent Zero.

If the fast-break is there, great. However, I like it when GA sticks with the offense rather than taking that quick open shot. Agent Zero's scoring stats may suffer, but, imo, that's the way to go--and win.

I guess that's why I like AD out there (with GA) at crunch time, running the offense and getting people organized. As history has shown, teams have a way of taking away a lot of the fast breaking during the playoffs, forcing their opponents to play much more half-court offense.

And it leaves us more balanced which helps us play better D. Even in the Miami game there were a few plays were we were running and missed the pass and it lead to a uncontested no one even in view fast break layup.

Risk - Reward.

You have to play smart.

At least GA outlet passes leave most our players in a position to defend.

[hands11]

Looks like NY is odd man out.

I don't like it but that's what it looks like.

I thought we could have used him during the drought.

He could have gotten some of DS's 39 minutes when he wasn't doing
anything for 18 minutes.

I think we need his healthy young legs in the game for a few minutes.

8 would be fine with me. I just don't like zero.