Caron "Grape Drink" Butler Must Go Now!!

Post #61 » by **nate33** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:31 pm

The anti-Butler hate has gotten a little to intense lately so it's time to go against the grain.

I just wanted to point out that Butler's counterpart PER is an unbelievably low 9.9. And this despite going up against the likes of Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Marvin Williams, Joe Johnson and Danny Granger. For context, that number would have ranked him as the best defender in the league last year.

(Note, counterpart PER isn't a particularly precise stat, and we're dealing with a low sample size here. But nevertheless, I consider it an indication that Butler is busting his butt on D.)

Benjammin · Post #62 » by **Benjammin** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:43 pm

Good point nate. Plus, if the Wizards want to trade him, we don't want to overlook what he is doing well right now.

WizarDynasty · Post #63 » by **WizarDynasty** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:21 am

Butler over estimates his ability to get to a spot before the defender. Butler. Arenas normally gets to a spot before the help defender and butler thinks he can do the same thing. What butler really needs to do is practice taking offin a different direction to force a helper defender to slides his feet. Butlers doesn't have the explosiveness in his legs to changed directions ....a second time just before contact with a help defender inside the paint...after his first explsove dribble. Mike miller doesn't even have the first explosive dribble that butler has. So we need butler to practice exploding a second time after his first explsove dribble from a pump fakes. Does carons legs have the explosiveness...nope.

Butler really has one major weakness. Mike miller can't attack the hole. Butler major weakness is that he can't stop his moment after he explodes to hole. He has got to practice exploding to hole and stopping his momentum and executing an acrobactic shot in practice. He basically has to improve his leg strength. The problem with mike miller is that he doesn't have any acrobactic ability while butler has a lil bit.

Butler needs to work on exploding in hid drive and changing directions just before taking off acrobactically to force his a help defender to not be able predict where to set up for a charge. I am surprised coaching hasn't worked with butler on this...otherwise I would be impressed with butlers play.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #64 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:00 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:Butler over estimates his ability to get to a spot before the defender. Butler. Arenas normally gets to a spot before the help defender and butler thinks he can do the same thing. What butler really needs to do is practice taking offin a different direction to force a helper defender to slides his feet. Butlers doesn't have the explosiveness in his legs to changed directions ....a second time just before contact with a help defender inside the paint...after his first explsove dribble. Mike miller doesn't even have the first explosive dribble that butler has. So we need butler to practice exploding a second time after his first explsove dribble from a pump fakes. Does carons legs have the explosiveness...nope.

Butler really has one major weakness. Mike miller can't attack the hole. Butler major weakness is that he can't stop his [momentum] after he explodes to hole. He has got to practice exploding to hole and stopping his momentum and executing an acrobactic shot in practice. He basically has to improve his leg strength. The problem with mike miller is that he doesn't have any acrobactic ability while butler has a lil bit.

Butler needs to work on exploding in hid drive and changing directions just before taking off acrobactically to force his a help defender to not be able predict where to set up for a charge. I am surprised coaching hasn't worked with butler on this...otherwise I would be impressed with butlers play.

Good points on Caron, WD.

I'm no coach, but I think Butler should run extra lane agility drills. They might help his legs,too, WD.

I think Caron should practice a step back move and work that into his game. Caron could probably help himself a lot by watching video of all his charges. He should scout himself to see where he's been consistently making mistakes, and then take all corrective actions. WizarDynasty, seems like everybody has read the same scouting report on Butler. They know what he's going to do. He needs to read their coverages and see why the help gets there before he does almost all the time. Caron needs to look at each one of those charges and see if his head is down and he's leading with his shoulder, or where the defenders come from, typically. Caron's got to become LESS PREDICTABLE and more nimble.

Gilbert Arenas also has pointed out that Caron likes to catch the ball and hesitate a bit--that could be more of a problem in the Hawk and video might should hesitancy, then the decision to barrel into the lane for the charge.

I say Butler should: Change his mental game, his footwork, his agility, and his shot making repertoire. Caron's not as good as Paul Pierce, but he plays a very similar game. I think Butler should try to copy Pierce's step back more often.

Caron's being way too predictable and his opponents are just waiting fo his signature move to try to slam. They get there outside the circle well before he does, and MAYBE if he watches himself make the same mistake against about 5 or 6 different teams, he'll turn things around.

Poetry-In-Motion · Post #65 » by **Poetry-In-Motion** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:40 pm

Some of you guys like to joke about the whole lack of Mountain Dew have caused his game to tarnish, but it could be a valid point. Didn't he lose like 20 pounds this offseason? Butler is generally a guy that uses his body a lot, and losing that amount of weight might have decreased his strength a bit in the high post area.

Zerocious · Post #66 » by **Zerocious** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:44 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:Butler over estimates his ability to get to a spot before the defender. Butler. Arenas normally gets to a spot before the help defender and butler thinks he can do the same thing. What butler really needs to do is practice taking offin a different direction to force a helper defender to slides his feet. Butlers doesn't have the explosiveness in his legs to changed directions ....a second time just before contact with a help defender inside the paint...after his first explsove dribble. Mike miller doesn't even have the first explosive dribble that butler has. So we need butler to practice exploding a second time after his first explsove dribble from a pump fakes. Does carons legs have the explosiveness...nope.

Butler really has one major weakness. Mike miller can't attack the hole. Butler major weakness is that he can't stop his moment after he explodes to hole. He has got to practice exploding to hole and stopping his momentum and executing an acrobactic shot in practice. He basically has to improve his leg strength. The problem with mike miller is that he doesn't have any acrobactic ability while butler has a lil bit.

Butler needs to work on exploding in hid drive and changing directions just before taking off acrobactically to force his a help defender to not be able predict where to set up for a charge. I am surprised coaching hasn't worked with butler on this...otherwise I would be impressed with butlers play.

double posting are you? my response to this post in other thread:

Zerocious wrote:to many offensive fouls on something that could be an easy bucket perhaps game changer. all he has to do is explode and go straight up for a kiss of the glass rather than the one handed duoble pump palming the ball while floating into a defense player inside the circle and getting called for a offnsive. just stop 'n pop straight up, or coast around as WD said, get the points, maybe even and one and avoid the offensive foul. i'm sure he can make that shot from three feet away right of the glass.....

Zerocious · Post #67 » by **Zerocious** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:45 pm

Poetry-In-Motion wrote:Some of you guys like to joke about the whole lack of Mountain Dew have caused his game to tarnish, but it could be a valid point. Didn't he lose like 20 pounds this offseason? Butler is generally a guy that uses his body a lot, and losing that amount of weight might have decreased his strength a bit in the high post area.

you'd think shedding this weight would help him float around some people more, being lighter on his feet and all. but he's still racking up the charges. 1 or 2 a game :nonono:

Halcyon · Post #68 » by **Halcyon** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:06 pm

Merely a guess on my part, but I think the weight loss has helped him on the defensive end, but has hurt his offensive game. His playing style was being "Tough Juice", a rugged SF that could bang inside and could pop outside to hit a jumper. Now that he's lost some of that bullying power, he's been unable to hit some of the gimmes he had inside the paint. Compounding the problem is that he was never a catch and shoot kind of player, but we saw some good flashes last game (vs Miami) of catch and shoot action in the 4th quarter.

There is still a chance he re-adjusts his game mid season, and hopefully it comes soon.

WizarDynasty · Post #69 » by **WizarDynasty** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:04 pm

The lost weight is most noticeable on defense. Caron's Butler's defense has been above average. I don't think he has lost his strength. He just needs to add more explosiveness to his legs...Last year he didn't have the explosive drive to the basket. Now he has alot of explosive to the basket but he needs change directions just before leaving his feets so that the defender is called for a blocking foul. Butler has definitely improved with the weight loss.

Post #70 » by **Rafael122** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:03 pm

Butler looks like he weighs 180 pounds. Secondly, the guy keeps putting the ball on the floor. There were a couple of instances where he got the ball, again, WIDE OPEN, AGAIN, and he puts the ball on the floor only for him to get blocked or turn the ball over.

His defense has been good, but he's a black hole on offense. I think it's time to explore what we can get for the guy, because it's not going to work. 15 games in, and he still doesn't get it, while everyone else seems to.

Post #71 » by **TheSecretWeapon** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:46 pm

I don't think weight loss has anything to do with Butler's offensive struggles. The issue looks to me like he's trying to unlearn some old habits and adapt to what Flip is asking of him. Basically, Arenas' comment (that Caron needs to catch and shoot) is a correct diagnosis and prescription. When Caron catches the ball, he's frequently open. But he pump fakes, jab steps or tries to dribble drive. Too many of those drives are to the baseline (which is where the defense wants him to go), and open jumpers become contested because the fakes give the defense time to recover.

The irony is that if he will do the simple play -- catch & shoot -- the dribble drives and whatnot he wants to do will open up to him. But first he has to make defenders anxious by converting on basic catch & shoot.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #72 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:59 pm

Kev, drop me a line when you have a moment.

I think the irony is that Flip and Gil are asking Caron to be a catch and shoot player when that's clearly not his game.

Gil's got some stuff going on IMO but not the least of which is he's been asked to change his game, too.

Post #73 » by **Rafael122** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:40 pm

CCJ - he can easily become that player. The majority of the time he's open as soon as he gets the ball. He's got a few seconds to just shoot the ball. His mid-range jumper is money, which is why his struggles are all the more confusing.

Post #74 » by **TheSecretWeapon** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:50 pm

I think anyone can become a catch & shoot player if they practice it a bit. A lot of guys are sorta forced into it as they age -- they can't drive anymore so they adjust. Caron's being asked to do it "voluntarily." But it's probably tough for the ego to take (and counterintuitive). I can do more to help the team by playing easier?! If he starts hitting those easy open jumpers, the drives will not only be there -- they'll be even easier for him. But first he has to trust the system.

Dat2U · Post #75 » by **Dat2U** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:04 pm

Caron is just so used to shooting off the dribble or pump fake. It seems like he's trying to get into a rhythm before he shoots. He's definitely not comfortable in the catch & shoot role yet. Maybe he'll get there, but he needs to figure it out soon.

Rendezvous · Post #76 » by **Rendezvous** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:31 pm

Hopefully he looks at this thread like Juan dixon did to his.

Post #77 » by **nate33** » Tue Dec 1, 2009 2:59 pm

Butler's counterpart PER (at SF) is now down to an incredibly low 9.4. This doesn't look like a fluke anymore. Butler is playing some serious defense. Interestingly, he only has a moderately helpful effect on team defense (-0.5 points per 100 possessions). Opponent's shoot a whopping 3.7% better with Butler on the court. Could Butler be sticking to his man to the detriment of the team's defensive system?

The Wizards crash the defensive boards a lot better when Butler is playing. Their defensive rebounding percentage improves by an astonishing 7.9% with Butler on the court.

The real problem is on offense. Butler's PER at SF is just 11.8. The offense scores 10.7 fewer points per 100 possessions when Butler is on the court.

Hoopalotta · Post #78 » by **Hoopalotta** » Tue Dec 1, 2009 3:13 pm

When Butler is on the court, the infant mortality rate in Bangladesh jumps to 74.3 deaths per 1000 live births. When Butler is not on the court, the number drops to 59.02

Well, maybe it just feels like that.

JWizmentality · Post #79 » by **JWizmentality** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 4:29 am

Alright...reasonably good game tonight. I may just change the title. You hear that Fruit Juice! I dare you to make me change this title! I dare you to make this thread irrelevant! I don't think you're man enough!

Hoopalotta · Post #80 » by **Hoopalotta** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 4:53 am

I'm sorry, but even his game tonight was bad news in my eyes.

I mean, it's like the old Sesame Street 'One of these kids is doing his own thing' spots. He's just so completely out of sync with the flow of the offense; the only difference between his good and bad games is that the ball happens to go in on bad shots during the 'good' games. Even tonight (@Toronto) he was -10 in 38 minutes; he was the only starter with a negative +/-. We put our run on with McGuire subbing for him; in the 10 minutes McGuire played, we were +14!

I just cringe when Juice gets the ball at this point. I'm sorry, I just do. He is so johnny one note. He was waved off like 12 times by Gil and Boink when calling for the ball on the left wing. Had they fed him in those situations, I think this would have been a bad game too.

He just needs to be playing in another system. I know he can play, but here he just grabs the steering wheel and swings the course straight for Jack-town. He is playing defense and rebounding, I'll admit it. If he took half as many shots and passed the ball again I'd be pleased.

Ok, enough griping.

Jamison takes quick shots and doesn't pass much, sure, but even when it doesn't work, I'm thinking "I totally see what Jamison was trying to do there and it was not a bad idea, nor was it poorly executed". I'm sure others would disagree, but I never second guess Jamison on offense.

Suffice to say that, as others have mentioned, I'd prefer to see more of Blatche and McGee with Miller, Jamison, McGuire at small forward. At this point, I'd about accept Boykins or Oberto there actually.