2012 NBA Draft - Part III

[7-Day Dray]

Can we just stop being so negative and wait until the lotto and not speculate? NO ONE knows where we're going to be picking yet. No need in being a downer when we have a higher chance of getting lucky than we do of falling. We've had bad luck in the past in regards to draft position, but we've had good luck too.

[hands11]

Ok. I'm going to pop the A Davis bubble here.

It is worth doing when something seems to good to be true and their is a lot of group think going on. It may amount to nothing but it is always good to do a bubble check. Look what happened to all those people who bought houses in 2004-2007. Group think can get you in trouble.

Drafting this kid is drafting Marcus Camby. Not MC later. MC earlier.

Davis is going to get pushed all over the place the first few years much like we saw McGee. I just watched the Kentucky vs Kansans game again. He has zero post moves. Actually, most of what he tried to do in the post looked exactly like what McGee would do for years. He could get no leverage so he did that McGee move where he tried to sneak to the rim off balance. He ended up out of bound and tried to reach back under the hoop. You'll remember the move. He did it at least 3 times. He ended up 1-10. Only pts he scored was a jump shot. He also like McGee ended up getting knocked around a lot and ended up on the. floor several times. And that was by going against Withey who is 7-0 235 Wait till he meets some of the bigger bigs in the NBA. The 260/270 centers. Like McGee, he will look good against team with weak or no good centers. But the powerful centers and power forwards are going to school him and knock him on his ass.

Davis is smarter then McGee. That seems clear. He is also a better FT shooter. He also looks to have shoulders he can one day grow into. Davis also appear to have a better foundation in his lower body. Eventually, he may be something. Maybe even worth the #1 one day, but it is going to take years and it might not even be on the team that drafted him.

So while Camby did end up having a very good career and Davis does have some advantages over McGee, I don't think this kid is going to come into the league and do a ton to justify him as the #1 pick for several years. He is a project. He played 1 year in college. Camby played two I believe. The kid is 18. He has no post moves. And he doesn't have an NBA ready body. It took Camby 4-5 years to hit his stride and he ultimately changed teams 3 times in his first 7 years. It was 4 years until he started for a winning team. What would really be best for this kid is to stay in school another year. And, since Camby came into the league, players have gotten a lot bigger and stronger.

By the time this kid is good enough to start on a winning team, you could have had 3 years of production from a NBA ready player. I don't even think he would start for the Wizards if drafted.

Just doing a bubble check here people.

If we got the number 1 and we could trade down and get Beal, Robinson, MKG and some other assets like another #1, I would lean heavily toward doing it. But if you want to draft a #1 pick to be a bench player for 4 years, you can do that also because he isn't going to be better then Nene or Keveen before then. Not even sure he will be able to leap ahead of Ves who will keep getting better.

I'm open to opposing views, but check you bubble first. Maybe he is worth it. Just doing a hard check because you really don't want to tank and blow a first overall pick. We did that with Kwame.

[truwizfan4evr]

Ok. I'm going to pop the A Davis bubble here.

It is worth doing when something seems to good to be true and their is a lot of group think going on. It may amount to nothing but it is always good to do a bubble check. Look what happened to all those people who bought houses in 2004-2007. Group think can get you in trouble.

Drafting this kid is drafting Marcus Camby. Not MC later. MC earlier.

Davis is going to get pushed all over the place the first few years much like we saw McGee. I just watched the Kentucky vs Kansans game again. He has zero post moves. Actually, most of what he tried to do in the post looked exactly like what McGee would do for years. He could get no leverage so he did that McGee move where he tried to sneak to the rim off balance. He ended up out of bound and tried to reach back under the hoop. You'll remember the move. He did it at least 3 times. He ended up 1-10. Only pts he scored was a jump shot. He also like McGee ended up getting knocked around a lot and ended up on the. floor several times. And that was by going against Withey who is 7-0 235 Wait till he meets some of the bigger bigs in the NBA. The 260/270 centers. Like McGee, he will look good against team with weak or no good centers. But the powerful centers and power forwards are going to school him and knock him on his ass.

Davis is smarter then McGee. That seems clear. He is also a better FT shooter. He also looks to have shoulders he can one day grow into. Davis also appear to have a better foundation in his lower body. Eventually, he may be something. Maybe even worth the #1 one day, but it is going to take years and it might not even be on the team that drafted him.

So while Camby did end up having a very good career and Davis does have some advantages over McGee, I don't think this kid is going to come into the league and do a ton to justify him as the #1 pick for several years. He is a project. He played 1 year in college. Camby played two I believe. The kid is 18. He has no post moves. And he doesn't have an NBA ready body. It took Camby 4-5 years to hit his stride and he ultimately changed teams 3 times in his first 7 years. It was 4 years until he started for a winning team. What would really be best for this kid is to stay in school another year. And, since Camby came into the league, players have gotten a lot bigger and stronger.

By the time this kid is good enough to start on a winning team, you could have had 3 years of production from a NBA ready player. I don't even think he would start for the Wizards if drafted.

Just doing a bubble check here people.

If we got the number 1 and we could trade down and get Beal, Robinson, MKG and some other assets like another #1, I would lean heavily toward doing it. But if you want to draft a #1 pick to be a bench player for 4 years, you can do that also because he isn't going to be better then Nene or Keveen before then. Not even sure he will be able to leap ahead of Ves who will keep getting better.

I'm open to opposing views, but check you bubble first. Maybe he is worth it. Just doing a hard check because you really don't want to tank and blow a first overall pick. We did that with Kwame.

Do you still want Anthony Davis ?

[doclinkin]

Davis is going to get pushed all over the place

Eventually, he may be something. Maybe even worth the #1 one day, but it is going to take years and it might not even be on the team that drafted him.

But if you want to draft a #1 pick to be a bench player for 4 years, you can do that also because he isn't going to be better then Nene or Keveen before then. Not even sure he will be able to leap ahead of Ves who will keep getting better.

I'm open to opposing views, but check you bubble first. Maybe he is worth it. Just doing a hard check because you really don't want to tank and blow a first overall pick. We did that with Kwame.

Aw bulldumplings. You honestly think Davis is Kwame? If not, don't drop the name.

Look if JaVale had Davis' instincts and smarts he would have been the #1 overall pick. And rightly so. You seem to be discounting that aspect as though it were trumped by lesser upper body strength. The reason why Davis is touted as a top pick was his swift adjustment to playing the 2nd most difficult position on the floor. Recall he grew five inches late and had to learn to be that lynchpin defensive captain. The reason he's lauded is his clear oncourt instincts and read/recognition, never getting caught out of position on defense, recovering well when beat, directing the action of other players etc. As a freshman.

On defense you rarely saw him get backed out of position by muscle-bound Big. He's not only got a solid foundation, he uses it well, defending with positioning and his legs, hell I've seen him pull a Vlade flop a couple times this year. The game you cite, kid pulled 16 boards, blocked 6 shots, and passed for 5 dimes against Withey who's an underrated legit 'footer who will have a real career in the league, and against TRob who as you suggest is one of the more obviously NBA ready bodies.

Personally I have no doubt Davis will be a significant defensive force. If he has yet to develop his offensive game, given his software and processing speed I'm confident he'll discover moves that work. The offensive game he already has is sufficient to earn PT: he runs a nice pick and roll, can put it on the floor and drive past most 4's and 5's and can catch and finish when fed. He even has a workable jumper. The fact that he can hit Free Throws indicates that his range should improve, and this year that fact alone would have earned him early minutes before your boy Ves. Which point may in fact reveal the genesis of your impassioned skepticism.

Hell even if he took time to develop before justifying all the hype, well he'd be seasoned and ready to take over the league just as Nene's contract ran out. Depth is no bad thing.

No chance we'd trade the pick though so your fears are irrelevant anyway.

[FAH1223]

hands, Davis is better than your boy Blatche

If he doesn't start right away, thats fine. I'd rather bring him along slowly. Besides, we have Nene and hopefully we keep Singleton around as vets who can be legit examples for him esp with developing post moves. Hell, Kevin Seraphin can show him a thing or two. Davis's IQ and effort will still have him grabbing boards and blocking shots at the next level despite his less than ready NBA body.

[hands11]

Doc

bulldumplings Reached deep in the bag for that one. lol

I didn't say Davis was Kwame. I laid out exactly what I was doing. The point wasn't that Davis is or isn't Kwame. The point is, no one really had a problem drafting Kwame. And if we didn't do it another GM would have. Group think. It has happened lots of time in the past with top picks. Why more then just Kwame.

As for what happened in that game, yes, Robinson is NBA ready.

He pulled down 17 rebounds and had 18 pts and he was only the shorter less talented team.

I'm not saying Davis won't be good. What am saying is I don't think he is going to be worth the #1 pick for at least 3-4 years. He is going to get pushed around. Sure he will block shots.

As for comparing him to Ves I say this. If Davis goes to a team as bad as the Wizards "were" this year when McGee was here where he is starting for a team that sucks, I think he will post some decent numbers. If he goes to Charlotte, you will see decent numbers. If he come to the Wizards as they are now, he won't even start. He would be behind Nene, Keven, Ves and Booker.

"Doc - Hell even if he took time to develop before justifying all the hype, well he'd be seasoned and ready to take over the league just as Nene's contract ran out. Depth is no bad thing."

Just so you know, I have consistently said if we get any of the top 4, we are looking good. If this is the plan, then that is fine. Go into it with your eyes open. Just know that you gave up something for that. It didn't come free. You could have had other productive assets while you were waiting for that to happen. Hey, I'm not on apposed to stacking the deck. If we want to draft the #1 overall pick so we have a potentially great starter in 3 year, then that's a plan also. I'm just open to other options with that asset that would more immediate results that combined, could be just as good or better.

[Ed Wood]

... [Vesely] is going to get pushed all over the place the first few years much like we saw McGee... He has zero post moves... And that was by going against [dudes in Europe] who [were not even] 7-0 235 Wait till he meets some of the bigger bigs in the NBA. The 260/270 centers. Like McGee, he will look good against team with weak or no good centers. But the powerful centers and power forwards are going to school him and knock him on his ass.

[Vesely] is smarter then McGee. That seems clear. He is also a better FT shooter, [maybe, barely, hard to tell]. He also looks to have shoulders he can one day grow into. [Vesely] also appear to have a better foundation in his lower body. Eventually, he may be something. Maybe even worth the #[6] one day, but it is going to take years and it might not even be on the team that drafted him.

... I don't think this kid is going to come into the league and do a ton to justify him as the #[6] pick for several years. He is a project...

By the time this kid is good enough to start on a winning team, you could have had 3 years of production from a NBA ready player. I don't even think he would start for the Wizards if drafted.

How do you account for the fact that this callow waif was a force playing against physically mature and experienced high major college big men this year, the single most effective player in college basketball? Playing against similar competition that Adonis Thomas Robinson (who I like perfectly fine as a prospect) was able to finish a little better than 50% of his shots, Davis finished over 62% of his. And Robinson is to have an effortless transition into the professional game?

I'm not going to disagree that Davis is far from entirely developed as a prospect but the portrait you're painting would be imperiled by a faint breeze. He's a young big guy, it's almost unheard of that he wouldn't need to develop physically to some extent, the same was true of Chris Bosh, of Pau Gasol, of Kevin Garnett, of Dirk Nowitzki, of even players you'd now consider relatively musclebound like Jermaine O'Neal and our own Kwame Brown. The rare young big man who isn't in need of some quality time in the gym is considered an exotic specimen, people were astounded that Shaq and Greg Oden managed to weigh over 250 pounds at the age of twenty.

And this isn't meant to be critical of Vesely either. Vesely's hard work this year led to an impressive amount of physical development as he transitioned completely to a new position and by the end of the year he had taken to it like a fish to water. And you're saying that a young kid with a vastly more impressive statistical resume who is coming into the league at a younger age and without having to change very much at all positionally is doomed?

By all means, question what is commonly accepted without thought in game but what exactly relegates Davis to years of getting the proverbial sand kicked in his face?





Why is a raven like a writing desk?

[hands11]

Ed

Not going to touch that. If you want to have a more serious conversation, lets do it. I wasn't looking to get into tit for tat type thing.

Cute post though from an entrainment stand point. Very creative.

If you recorded the final NCAA game, go watch it again. The kid was pushed all over the place and was on the floor several time. Whit even slapped one of his weak moves into half court. I was being objective about it when I said he made several McGee moves. I have no reason to hate on the kid. He seems like a nice young man.

The point wasn't to say Davis wont be good. I just wanted to see if there was to much group think going on in regards to him. Expectation have gotten really high.

As for Ves, I don't think expectations were high. Actually they were pretty rock bottom. And most though he would play SF, not PF and Center. He was only the 6th pick. Ves exceeded most Wizard fans expectation for this year. Considering he came to camp last and had no summer practice. He over achieved.

What you say about bigs taking time to develop is pretty much what I was getting at.

Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol, Kevin Garnett They all were picked up by other teams then who drafted them. And I'm not sure any of those players are good comparisons to Davis. Best compassion I have seen is Camby.

And no, I didn't say he was doomed? You made that up yourself. I never wrote that.

To you last question regarding sand in his face. My "guess" is that at 18 and going through that growth spurt, it may actually be harder for him to add weight. McGee had problems initially because he was still growing. It is also hard to get all you coordination down while you are growing. He is also light in the trunks. NBA bigs are going to push him around. He has zero post moves that I saw watching that NCAA game. He is a great prospect. He has earned that with the work he has put in. I'm just not clear on how long it will take for that to translate to NBA starter on a good team good. My guess 3-4 years. But on a bad team he with a bad front court, he will start. I don't see him starting for the Wizards though.

Just so we are on the same page. You think he will be a NBA center or PF. I think he is a center.

[Ed Wood]

So your response to the various points that:

1) Davis was an absolutely phenomenal player against very good competition this past year and played very well in a number of games against future NBA players, consider:

- 16 points and six rebounds against Patrick Young and Florida
- 22 and 12 in a second meeting
- 15 and 12 in a third
- 15 and 8 against Festus Ezeli and Vanderbilt
- 12 and 10 in a second meeting
- 18 and 11 against a number of pro prospects at Baylor
- 18 and 10 against Gorgui Deng and Louisville
- 18 and 14 in a rematch in the national semi-final round

2) Davis is very young and it's entirely normal for young big men, who are generally ectomorphs and not uncommonly fresh off of significant growth spurts, to need to develop physically in the NBA. He is not especially slight in that group and, as you said, has a frame that bodes well for his future.

3) The team did very well developing a prospect who was similarly physically slight and who otherwise did not project to excel to nearly the same extent just this past season.

...is that I'm not being serious and you're holding out for a more dignified refutation? I realize I have a reputation for being somewhat breezy but that's hardly grounds to summarily dismiss the points being raised.

If you're simply saying that big men do need time to physically develop, well okay, but there is a vast gulf between that point and preferring not to draft Davis. Why is it more sensible to draft a player who is considered lesser both from a physical and basketball talent standpoint and who was, without exception, a lesser player in terms of basketball production? Why is any other player a better bet, or even a bet of approximate quality?

And... some quick hits:

Practically speaking of the big men I alluded to only Jermaine O'Neal failed to make a significant impact for the team that drafted him (other than Kwame, who was simply not a good pick, those do happen). Dirk may have been a part of a draft day trade but he developed into what he is exclusively in Dallas. Bosh was excellent in Toronto, Gasol was the same in Memphis, Garnett was arguably the best player in basketball for a number of years in Minnesota.

Why, save your say so and the fact that he is an otherworldly shot blocker is Davis clearly another Marcus Camby?

Why is the title game of disproportionate weight when evaluating Davis? It was a game against a good team and quality opposing big men, there are quite a few of those to draw on in Davis' single season. Why is this night different from all other nights?

It was not a very popular sentiment, to my memory that Vesely would be a small forward in the NBA. Based on his size and the fact that he can't shoot it was generally assumed he'd have to make the transition to the four.

[Dat2U]

Ed

Not going to touch that. If you want to have a more serious conversation, lets do it. I wasn't looking to get into tit for tat type thing.

Cute post though from an entrainment stand point. Very creative.

If you recorded the final NCAA game, go watch it again. The kid was pushed all over the place and was on the floor several time. Whit even slapped one of his weak moves into half court. I was being objective about it when I said he made several McGee moves. I have no reason to hate on the kid. He seems like a nice young man.

The point wasn't to say Davis wont be good. I just wanted to see if there was to much group think going on in regards to him. Expectation have gotten really high.

As for Ves, I don't think expectations were high. Actually they were pretty rock bottom. And most though he would play SF, not PF and Center. He was only the 6th pick. Ves exceeded most Wizard fans expectation for this year. Considering he came to camp last and had no summer practice. He over achieved.

What you say about bigs taking time to develop is pretty much what I was getting at.

Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol, Kevin Garnett They all were picked up by other teams then who drafted them. And I'm not sure any of those players are good comparisons to Davis. Best compassion I have seen is Camby.

And no, I didn't say he was doomed? You made that up yourself. I never wrote that.

To you last question regarding sand in his face. My "guess" is that at 18 and going through that growth spurt, it may actually be harder for him to add weight. McGee had problems initially because he was still growing. It is also hard to get all you coordination down while you are growing. He is also light in the trunks. NBA bigs are going to push him around. He has zero post moves that I saw watching that NCAA game. He is a great prospect. He has earned that with the work he has put in. I'm just not clear on how long it will take for that to translate to NBA starter on a good team good. My guess 3-4 years. But on a bad team he with a bad front court, he will start. I don't see him starting for the Wizards though.

Just so we are on the same page. You think he will be a NBA center or PF. I think he is a center.

Too bad your posts aren't entertaining or very informative.

You couldn't pop the bubble on Davis no matter what. Your logic is flawed and you seem to want to base this off of one game. I made the same mistake when i judged James Harden off of one or two bad postseason performances a few years back.

That Camby comparison is just lazy. Just because their both light in the ass and had a defensive impact doesn't mean their of the same ilk. Camby made his living offensively off of the offensive boards and that 15-20 footer with the painfully slow release. His offfensive game was incredibly limited due to his lack of skill. Davis also has the raw face up skills that Camby has never possessed.

Regardless of Davis' supposed weaknesses as mentioned by you, Davis was the best player in the NCAA at age 18. He had the highest PER of anyone in college (a largely offensive statistic). He had an offensive rating of 140! His production, efficiency & overall b-ball IQ is unparalled for a freshman. His impact defensively should go without mention, and it did in your posts as you failed to even acknowledge what he brings to game defensively.

So maybe you should look back at more than one game before you make a sweeping judgement on a player.

[dangermouse]

As soon as i heard NOH lost their coin toss I thought "yep, here we go, NOH about to bounce to #1."

The stars are just aligning in the right ways for them, like they did for us.

[Jay81]

No cant win it. It would really hurt the integrity of the league and stern

[Ed Wood]

Oh yes well, realgm would take a siesta on that rather antagonistic note. I’m not trying to provoke you hands, your point that Davis is not a finished product is a valid one and I do think that had he chosen to return to school for another year he would have emerged a more attractive candidate. I’m also not entirely dismissing the idea of trading out of any pick, even the first overall, but because of the degree to which I esteem Davis as a prospect any offer that would make much headway with me would have to be absolutely irresistible. I’m also not using this as a means to demean Vesely or using the 6th overall pick on him. I meant only to point out that Vesely was himself physically underdeveloped and made a great deal of progress on that front in a relatively short time after having been drafted and therefore it seems premature to confidently assert that Davis will be struggling to overcome his frame for years to come.

Davis is a really excellent prospect. He’s fully equipped with the physical prerequisites you’d want in a premier prospect, fills a role which is generally considered both difficult to fill and extremely valuable (that of a focal point as an interior player). He’s already keyed to be an extremely impactful defender and has shown more than enough offensively to allow for all sorts of dreams to fall easily onto his shoulders. Those are dreams at this point; he would not be able to produce the volume of offense that an elite big man is expected to at this moment. But I do think you have to recognize that it is an unfortunate cost of doing business in the modern draft that you have to be prepared to draft players who are not finished products.

That was true of Greg Oden when he was drafted (was he really any further along offensively?) and of Kevin Durant (more physically underdeveloped than Davis by far) of Derrick Rose (a poor shooter, not without some concerns as a playmaker and of Wall (generally the same with more of an emphasis on his shooting issues). Virtually any prospect of that caliber now is going to be entering into the NBA after a single year of college and there will be work left to be done. Davis does have his faults, and like many modern big men a less than stellar post game is certainly one of them. Nevertheless he scored at a healthy if not incredible clip in college and did so with tremendous efficiency, and based on his ability to finish and his solid foul shooting he should be a respectable contributor in the NBA initially, but I don’t disagree that adjustments will be necessary on that end.

Anyway, I didn’t mean do any more than to point out that there are a great many points in Davis’ favor as a prospect and that from what I know of prospectdom and of projecting players into the NBA what he has demonstrated thus far is impressive to a degree that the play of Durant or Oden or (to acknowledge that this is not a precise science) Beasley accomplished at that level. The Wizards front court has come a long way recently, but I don’t think there’s a frontcourt in the league with the quality and depth sufficient to make Davis redundant, he’s just too good.

[WizarDynasty]

Davis stats are hugely inflated because he played with the equivalent of all nba players every possession. He didn't have to anything offensively for his team to win. On what NBA team can the best player on the court not be a number, number 2, or number 3 option and the team still wins the championship. That's how inflated his stats are. He is not going to ever be in that situation in the nba unless he is playing for high powered deep playoff offensive team.
He had the equivalent of two first team all defensive players in the front court with him on every possession who were more physical than him and dominating their matchup defensively every night. All Davis had to do was swap from the weakside any lucky offensive player that manage to crack the --1st team all nba defensive players--jones and MKG for an easy swat.
McGee sucked because he didn't have one of the most important components of a bigman and that is above average lower body strength.
Any time your supposed franchise bigman is getting knocked to the floor continously and can't even dominant post position against inferior college players, there are huge red flags.
Davis is an upgrade over mcgee because of his mental ability but he has the same coordination and post problems as mcgee in the post. He doesn't have an explosive first step, he doesn't have great body coordination when a powerful player is pushing him on shot attempts--- outside of catching two handed alley hoops or shooting a sky hook with pressure from a defender--but as soon as even slight pressure from a defender is applied on any of his shots, and he doesn't finish through contact.
He doesn't absorb contact on the post and is going to get eaten alive unless someone helps double team his man each possession thus causing a break down in the defense. He is definitely a weak link defensively especially since he isn't going to have two and possible three first team all defensive nba players in the starting five each night who dominate their matchup defensively.
Jones and MKG outmatched their counterparts nearly every play, and unlike college, pro teams have way more time to design a defense to attack Davis poor post defense. Just like McGee, DAvis was free to go for blocks all the time because of he two first team all nba defensive players that could cover for him. He wont have that with any team that picks him the lottery.
If Javale had Scottie Pippen and Horace grant---or current anology is Kevin Garnett--Terrence Jones College equivalent-- and lebron james--mkg-college equivalent he can take alot more chances defensively and had almost no responsibility offensively--which is basically what happen.
Davis is Javale McGee with more IQ. They have nearly the same background going from wingplayer which requires no leg strength, to playing in the post and both can't rely on the length and can't absorb any force on the block.
I liked Javale McGee but his iq wasn't the main reason he was traded. He was traded because he is extremely uncoordinated in terms of his low balance, lacks footspeed in space and side ways movements in space defensively--same as Davis, gets bullied on the blocks--same as davis---goes for shotblocks because he knows he can't match up strength wise and wants to avoid the embrassment, goes for shotblocks leaving his defender open for easy rebounds--also davis. Both are good rebounders using their length but neither can use their body to block out a powerful rebounder and still secure a rebound. they both need other to do the hard work while they are free to sky untouched for rebounds. As soon as someone puts a strong lower body on them--like a zach randolph, they are completely neutralize for rebounds.
again, i think McGee would work really well with Nene because Nene can boost his iq and i think Davis would work well with Nene in the same fashion but expect to see all the problems with Javale that were not related to Iq in Davis and there were ALOT.
AFter 4 years, we saw improvement in mcgee lower body strength slightly but he never was able to improve his lateral quickness and i see the same issue with davis. Players who tried to add alot of lower body strength in the later years of life usually develop back probles. heavy squatting and their bone density during the youngor aer years was molded for much lighter weight. your bones in adult life are shaped by the activities of your youth so if you didn't involve yourself in dealing with alot of force on your lower legs in your youth, and your body doesn't naturally have alot of strength, its going to be quite difficult for you to compete with men who naturally have it and developed as post players in their youth.

[doclinkin]

Davis stats are hugely inflated because he played with the equivalent of all nba players every possession. He didn't have to anything offensively for his team to win. On what NBA team can the best player on the court not be a number, number 2, or number 3 option and the team still wins the championship.

Bill Russell's Celtics and their 13 Championships. Arguably Tim Duncan's '07 Championship playing #2 to Tony Parker in the playoffs in the no-handcheck era. Ben Wallace on the Piston's championship with the best +/- effect, neutralizing Shaq and turning Kobe into a me-first jumpshooter by patrolling the interior and fronting Shaq. Maybe not Rodman on the Pistons though he was probably their 2nd most talented player after Zeke.

A dominant defensive Big is key to any Championship aspirations. Without that you can tantalize but rarely finish.

Also Reality just phoned on the other line and mentioned that Davis was the leading scorer for his KY team. That he posted the best numbers while taking the 4th most shots is testament to his insane efficiency more than his inability to carry a squad.

[hands11]

Ed

Not going to touch that. If you want to have a more serious conversation, lets do it. I wasn't looking to get into tit for tat type thing.

Cute post though from an entrainment stand point. Very creative.

If you recorded the final NCAA game, go watch it again. The kid was pushed all over the place and was on the floor several time. Whit even slapped one of his weak moves into half court. I was being objective about it when I said he made several McGee moves. I have no reason to hate on the kid. He seems like a nice young man.

The point wasn't to say Davis wont be good. I just wanted to see if there was to much group think going on in regards to him. Expectation have gotten really high.

As for Ves, I don't think expectations were high. Actually they were pretty rock bottom. And most though he would play SF, not PF and Center. He was only the 6th pick. Ves exceeded most Wizard fans expectation for this year. Considering he came to camp last and had no summer practice. He over achieved.

What you say about bigs taking time to develop is pretty much what I was getting at.

Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol, Kevin Garnett They all were picked up by other teams then who drafted them. And I'm not sure any of those players are good comparisons to Davis. Best compassion I have seen is Camby.

And no, I didn't say he was doomed? You made that up yourself. I never wrote that.

To you last question regarding sand in his face. My "guess" is that at 18 and going through that growth spurt, it may actually be harder for him to add weight. McGee had problems initially because he was still growing. It is also hard to get all you coordination down while you are growing. He is also light in the trunks. NBA bigs are going to push him around. He has zero post moves that I saw watching that NCAA game. He is a great prospect. He has earned that with the work he has put in. I'm just not clear on how long it will take for that to translate to NBA starter on a good team good. My guess 3-4 years. But on a bad team he with a bad front court, he will start. I don't see him starting for the Wizards though.

Just so we are on the same page. You think he will be a NBA center or PF. I think he is a center.

Too bad your posts aren't entertaining or very informative.

You couldn't pop the bubble on Davis no matter what. Your logic is flawed and you seem to want to base this off of one game. I made the same mistake when i judged James Harden off of one or two bad postseason performances a few years back.

That Camby comparison is just lazy. Just because their both light in the ass and had a defensive impact doesn't mean their of the same ilk. Camby made his living offensively off of the offensive boards and that 15-20 footer with the painfully slow release. His offfensive game was incredibly limited due to his lack of skill. Davis also has the raw face up skills that Camby has never possessed.

Regardless of Davis' supposed weaknesses as mentioned by you, Davis was the best player in the NCAA at age 18. He had the highest PER of anyone in college (a largely offensive statistic). He had an offensive rating of 140! His production, efficiency & overall b-ball IQ is unparalled for a freshman. His impact defensively should go without mention, and it did in your posts as you failed to even acknowledge what he brings to game defensively.

So maybe you should look back at more than one game before you make a sweeping judgement on a player.

From Dat
Too bad your posts aren't entertaining or very informative.

Yeah. we should only have so many of those around. Guess I was kind of stepping on your territory there.

First off, I never said the kid was going to suck or be a bust, so Im not going to defend against that. My angle was a bubble check. And what is this #1 pick worth in other assets that could benefit to team sooner. With so much hype over him, what could you get that that pick.

I said he is going to get pushed around in the NBA his first year. You want to beat me on that ?
That he wouldn't start of a good team.
That it is going to take several years for him to develop and NBA level game.

You mentioned...
He had the highest PER of anyone in college (a largely offensive statistic)

Do you think that offense is going to translate ? If so, from what position and what is his NBA offensive game.

He looks like a center to me. I guess that would be a good place to start. They have him listed at 6-10. Is he still growing ?

Again, I don't hate the kid at all. Just trying to take the rose colored glasses off.

[doclinkin]

The argument is flawed. The question is do you want to win a championship or be a little better next year? Teams win with Bar None Most Talented Consensus Best bigs. Even if he took a year or so to develop, that's a fine thing, his topside is significantly better than whomever is under him. Offense only tells a small percentage of the story. But his offense is fine for this team. As has been sketched out already (myself, 'woodie) on this team, with his current skillset he'd be like a more skilled and efficient Jan Vesely, with Tim Duncan level defensive upside. And honestly who wouldn't want that?

Occasionally conventional wisdom is just you know, wisdom.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

hands, I don't think it is going to take 3 years for Davis to justify his top draft pick overall status. I think it will be apparent in 3 days why he is by far the best player in this draft.

I saw Festus Ezeli tower over Davis. He is taller and at least 30 or 40 pounds heavier than Davis. I saw Jeff Withey pushing Davis off of the block. It was very difficult for Davis to score posting up. What was Anthony Davis shooting in the NCAA Championship game, something like 1-8 or 1-10 at one point? I understand the contention is that in the NBA there are men who will do that routinely to Davis.

Here is the flip side to the above. In the NBA teams have 8 seconds to get the ball over the time line and 24 seconds to score. If Davis is a C for his NBA team, he's probably going to be the fastest at his position. He's going to be the John Wall of Cs. Davis is not just fast, but he's quick. He will be a Bill Russell. If Davis comes to a team like the Wizards, that has some big men already, he can play PF. Anthony wii be able to rebound much better than the bigger Kevin Seraphin. Davis should be comparable at finishing lobs to Vesely. Davis is a terrific ball handler. With the 24-second clock, he's going to be able to drive for a lot of dunks. Imagine a guy the size of Chris Bosh, and even more agile than Bosh, who plays with the defensive intensity of Alonzo Mourning. Anthony Davis can play PF or C and he will excel.

I think with Davis the Wizards would end up starting Vesely at SF, Davis at PF, and Nene at C. It would be sort of similar to the Lakers having Odom, Gasol, and Bynum. None of those guys were perimeter threats, Kobe was. The Wizards have Wall and just need to add a player like Eric Gordon, Ben Gordon, Ray Allen, Brandon Rush, etc.

That or Morris Almond needs to come back hitting shots at his greatest accuracy. Did anyone else notice the Wizards did well with Martin, Almond, and Evans all playing SG by committee? They didn't have to go against Wade but those guys held their own,

[nate33]

[Davis] is definitely a weak link defensively

Wow. Just, wow.

[nate33]

This whole argument brought forth by hands11 is a strawman. hands11 acts like he is presenting some bold revelation that nobody else has considered, when in fact, he is merely stating the obvious. Everybody is well aware that Davis isn't a finished product. Of course, he is going to have to fill out a bit before he can bang in the post with with NBA talent. So what? He is still the best big man prospect since Greg Oden (at least) and maybe the best since Howard or even Duncan.

On Day 1, Davis will be a great help defender, an excellent pick and roll defender, and a terrific offensive rebounder. At the very worst, he'll be as effective defensively as Jan Vesely has been over the last two months, only Davis will rebound better and block more shots. Davis will also be a MUCH better offensive player.

I think we'd all agree that a player who was modestly better than Vesely on D, and astronomically better than Vesely on offense is going to be a pretty good player. Only Davis will be doing it at age 19, not age 21.