Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

[FAH1223]

Beal isn't going to be traded, that's not how the Wizards do business.

Foolish if you ask me, the amount of deference to Beal's demands and wishes doesn't seem warranted and as much of a feel good story Beal ending his career as a Wizards would be, he's not going to be part of a contender on this timeline.

Wizards would be well advised to make a move for Simmons and to reset expectations and the roster.

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1) A max Beal will never be as bad as Russ...

If you think, on the 2 guys' careers, that Bradley Beal is a better player than Russell Westbrook, it'll be hard to have a rational discussion, because he hasn't been nearly as good, nowhere close to what Westbrook has done. Brad has been a terrific player, especially for the 5 years prior to this one. Russ has been better. Way better.

For that matter, if you think Beal was better than Westbrook last year, when they were both Wizards, then that too indicates an emotional rather than a rational assessment of the two players.

I'm not arguing about their careers, Im talking about now. And to your latter point...
Lets look the previous two year (Russ in Houston and DC)

Beal (Per 36): 31 / 4.5 / 5 with a TS of 59% and BPM of 3.1
Russ (Per 36): 24.5 / 10 / 9.5 with a TS of 52% and BPM of 2.5

Beal essentially gave you 6.5 more points on 2.5 FGA and 1.5 more FTA (TS of 105% !!!). That cannot be understated.
Now, you could argue about the additional assist and rebounds, but I would counter with Russ bringing down team rebounding and assist in exchange for his numbers. I.E. I dont think those numbers added much of anything.

Finally, we cant ignore that Russ limits your team/rotation because of his inability to play off the ball. You live and die with Russ. Beal has shown the ability to play the lead guard role as well as elite off-ball action. Beal can fit into many lineups/roles, where Russ simply cant.

Oh, and as bad as Beal has been this year, you dont seem to bring up that Russ has had a 30% drop in rebounds AND assist from last year while his turnovers have stayed the same. Out of the 15 players with minutes for LAL this year, Russ is #13 in +/- at -7.2...

Our offense has been terrible this year, but with the roster and coaching turnover I think we owe WUJ a few more weeks to install a bit more nuance and get our players better looks.

I've got no criticism whatever to offer WUJ. we're 15-11...!

As to comparing Russ & Brad, one request -- if we are to differ about them (whether career or any given year), may we please not have it be in the form of an argument? I am perfectly willing to explain my POV & equally interested to hear yours. Along those lines, a few points:

1. Russell had a really bad season with Houston. It did improve towards the end of the year but not enough to bring his numbers up anywhere relevant to his career average.

2. There's little point to comparing the two guys this year: neither of them is playing particularly well.

3. Nothing I cite about Russ in his one year with us takes anything away from Brad's performance the same year. What one guy does won't take away from what another guy does.

As to their play with us last year, if you shine a light on scoring & put everything else in the shade, it goes without saying that Brad looks like the better player -- far better. If the next thing you do is pick a negative stat for Russ (e.g. turnovers) & illuminate that as the single important secondary number... all the worse for Russ.

I.e. if we agree on those premisses, then we agree on the conclusion. How not? It's built in. In short, to get a conclusion you want, all you have to do is ignore facts that don't lead to it. & that's what you do when you decide to dismiss some of Russ's numbers. &, of course, no one is forced to believe that numbers are important -- & certainly no one should think that they tell "the whole story." Nothing does. Moreover, you are entitled to any opinion you care to hold.

What is true about the facts of Russ's career, however, is that they are the kind of facts that get a player into the HOF. If they don't imply that about Russ, then I suppose they don't imply that about all those guys in the HOF either. Hence, if you get to claim that some numbers don't really matter in Russ's case, then so does a person who wants to argue that, for example, Bill Russell doesn't belong in the HOF -- after all, he didn't score all that many points....

Again, there's nothing to argue about here. You're just saying that you know better than the numbers. & that's perfectly possible. You may possess a unique perspective capable of cutting through the numbers & the ways they mislead us to make it clear how much better a player Bradley Beal is than Russell Westbrook.

In that case, all the people who call Russ "a first-ballot HOF player" might be wrong, & instead you are right. I doubt it, to tell the truth. Without meaning to be disrespectful, I don't think you possess that "unique perspective." &, for reasons that surely must be obvious, I wouldn't be convinced otherwise if other Wizards fans check in to agree. Yet... I might be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

[FAH1223]

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Bring Maxey to DC and we may have a deal. TWolves don’t need him.

[nate33]

I don't see Minnesota trading KAT for Simmons.

[pcbothwel]

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Bring Maxey to DC and we may have a deal. TWolves don’t need him.

Agreed...That said, Im not interested in trading Beal in a lateral move and Ted wont allow it anyway. Towns only has 2 years remaining after this year and poses many of the same problems Ben does (Questionable Desire to be Great, lack of lineup flexibility/versatility, etc.).
Quite frankly, I want my GM to have the same level of confidence/arrogance that I would have in creating a roster. Which is to say, I would prefer many draft picks than a single "B" level All-star like Simmons or Towns already maxed out.

If we move Beal, we arent reloading, but rebuilding.

[pcbothwel]

I don't see Minnesota trading KAT for Simmons.

Same, but I see them as desperate to make this group work.
I would let them keep Towns, DLO, Ant, AND add Simmons. I think they would then send the farm of draft picks, and the Twolves are the type of dysfunctional FO along with immature "leaders" that I would be willing to bet on that group failing and turning on each other.

1) Let Philly Keep Maxey, but instead send us Springer, Pertusev, plus another 1st
2) Send us Bolmaro and 2 of Prince, Beasley, or PatBev
3) Send us unprotected 1st in 22/24/26... swaps in 25 & 27

[NatP4]

Can we get Cam Payne and Mikal Bridges+filler from the Suns for Beal?

That would be absolutely horrible for Phoenix, but the NBA is obsessed with that star power.

Phoenix has Chris Paul and Devin Booker at guard. Why in the world would they want Beal at $45M a year?

Both Beal and Booker can slide up to the 3 I guess, I don’t know.

[NatP4]

Maxey doesn’t excite me at all.

[nate33]

I don't see Minnesota trading KAT for Simmons.

Same, but I see them as desperate to make this group work.
I would let them keep Towns, DLO, Ant, AND add Simmons. I think they would then send the farm of draft picks, and the Twolves are the type of dysfunctional FO along with immature "leaders" that I would be willing to bet on that group failing and turning on each other.

1) Let Philly Keep Maxey, but instead send us Springer, Pertusev, plus another 1st
2) Send us Bolmaro and 2 of Prince, Beasley, or PatBev
3) Send us unprotected 1st in 22/24/26... swaps in 25 & 27

I like it!

[gambitx777]

Like I said there are three teams with young talent, picks and need to need to add a star level talent. If we dona rebuild it needs to be a rebuild.
OKC, MEM, and NO and perfect trade partners to include I. A three way Ben Simmons and Beal deal they get Simmons and we get a ton of rebus stuffs

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[9 and 20]

Zion is hurt again. Would they trade off some of their vets now? Any chance we could add a second rounder to Gill and bring back Sato? He could play with either Neto or Holiday and provide some real PG play.

[gambitx777]

Zion is hurt again. Would they trade off some of their vets now? Any chance we could add a second rounder to Gill and bring back Sato? He could play with either Neto or Holiday and provide some real PG play.

Gill is making 1.5 mill and sato is making 10 and we don't really have a fill contract to trade. Other than Trez or KCP and they burn too many minutes to get rid of for sato .

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[gambitx777]

I think where the rubbers gonna hit the road is does Beal wanna win or get paid? If he wants the money he's gonna keep his head down till he signs that super max of he wants to win we might get a demand by the deadline. If he wants out I'm looking to trade him for maximum assets. Which I think can be done in a three way with Philly sending Simmons to a team with picks and expendable young talent.

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[FAH1223]

Bradley Beal for Kyrie Irving

The vaccine refusal swap. Works in the trade machine! Would Beal be prohibited from playing home games like Irving has been due to NYC mandate?

[lastemp3ror]

I am not a fan of bringing in Simmons, KAT, Irving etc for Beal. This team needs a full rebuild, period. Trade Beal for draft assets and/or young talent with high ceiling. Trade everyone not named Deni, Gafford, Rui and Kispert.

[nate33]

Zion is hurt again. Would they trade off some of their vets now? Any chance we could add a second rounder to Gill and bring back Sato? He could play with either Neto or Holiday and provide some real PG play.

We don't have a 2nd rounder. And Sato makes $8.5M more than Gill.

If Rui gets back and looks good, it might be worth it to trade Kuzma for Sato, particularly if New Orleans throws in a 2nd or two. Not only does it balance our roster, but it gets Kuzma's contract off the books, which makes retaining KCP and one of Harrell/Bryant a lot easier. It also gives us a little luxtax flexibility to absorb some extra salary in another trade.

[gambitx777]

Bradley Beal for Kyrie Irving

The vaccine refusal swap. Works in the trade machine! Would Beal be prohibited from playing home games like Irving has been due to NYC mandate?

I have zero interest in a star for star trade involving Beal. If we move Beal it's full blow rebuild time.

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[nate33]

I think where the rubbers gonna hit the road is does Beal wanna win or get paid? If he wants the money he's gonna keep his head down till he signs that super max of he wants to win we might get a demand by the deadline. If he wants out I'm looking to trade him for maximum assets. Which I think can be done in a three way with Philly sending Simmons to a team with picks and expendable young talent.

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I agree with this. Sheppard ought to get involved in all Simmons talks. There are presumably a bunch of teams who would trade picks/prospects for Simmons, and Philly would surely trade Simmons for Beal, so a 3-way deal should be out there.

And if not, just trade Beal for Simmons and then try to rebuild Simmons' value some.

[Frichuela]

I think where the rubbers gonna hit the road is does Beal wanna win or get paid? If he wants the money he's gonna keep his head down till he signs that super max of he wants to win we might get a demand by the deadline. If he wants out I'm looking to trade him for maximum assets. Which I think can be done in a three way with Philly sending Simmons to a team with picks and expendable young talent.

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I agree with this. Sheppard ought to get involved in all Simmons talks. There are presumably a bunch of teams who would trade picks/prospects for Simmons, and Philly would surely trade Simmons for Beal, so a 3-way deal should be out there.

And if not, just trade Beal for Simmons and then try to rebuild Simmons' value some.

Agreed. Take for example:

WAS trade Beal and get Haliburton+Hield+PHI 2022 1st + PHI pick swap (betting on a high future pick due to Embiid injury and Brad being Brad…).
PHI trade Simmons+ PHI 1st + Pick swap and get Beal
SAC trade Haliburton+Hield and get Simmons

We then trade Kuzma to Chicago for their POR 1st (top 14 protected and then seconds) or to NOP for Sato + seconds. And trade Harrell to for example CHA for 2nd round picks.

This could be the beginning of a decent rebuild with a core of Haliburton, Deni, Rui and Gafford surrendered by vets such as Hield and KCP as well as bench pieces including Kispert, Todd, the future picks, and possibly Bryant.

Tommy- are you listening?

[queridiculo]

Bradley Beal for Kyrie Irving

The vaccine refusal swap. Works in the trade machine! Would Beal be prohibited from playing home games like Irving has been due to NYC mandate?

Trading Beal for Irving is a lateral move at best and it doesn't do anything to advance the teams long term prospects.

That, and Irving has proven time and time again that he can't be relied on to be the leading man for an organization.

Irving in DC would be a catastrophe.